Is Heirloom Weapon Overpowered?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Hi,

now I nearly choked when I saw this added to the SRD.

Benefit: This heirloom weapon is of masterwork quality (but you pay only the standard cost at character creation). You gain a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls with this specific weapon and are considered proficient with that specific weapon (but not other weapons of that type) even if you do not have the required proficiencies.

Why wouldn't ANY char (particularly a melee'r) take this. The easiest abuse I see is a gish using his heirloom weapon as his arcane focus and enchanting it. The trait bonus to attack rolls is pretty awesome for any 3/4 or better build trying to pump his to hit. +1 can make a bit of difference.

I thought traits were supposed to be 1/2 strength to a feat. This is basically free Prof and Wpn fcs in one....


I think it's about the strength of a feat. In most cases, I'd rather take this trait instead of Exotic Weapon Proficiency, for instance.

There's more discussion of it (in the context of Pathfinder Society organized play where some other traits are banned) here:
Prediction: Heirloom Weapon trait will be very popular

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Until you lose that weapon for some reason, in which case you wasted a trait.


Ardenup wrote:

Hi,

now I nearly choked when I saw this added to the SRD.

Benefit: This heirloom weapon is of masterwork quality (but you pay only the standard cost at character creation). You gain a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls with this specific weapon and are considered proficient with that specific weapon (but not other weapons of that type) even if you do not have the required proficiencies.

Why wouldn't ANY char (particularly a melee'r) take this. The easiest abuse I see is a gish using his heirloom weapon as his arcane focus and enchanting it. The trait bonus to attack rolls is pretty awesome for any 3/4 or better build trying to pump his to hit. +1 can make a bit of difference.

I thought traits were supposed to be 1/2 strength to a feat. This is basically free Prof and Wpn fcs in one....

Not so. Weapon focus is an untyped bonus that applies whenever you wield that specific type of weapon. This trait gives you the benefits of that feat, but only when using the heirloom weapon. And you still don't get the full benefits, as it doesn't qualify as a prerequisite for other feats or prestige classes. So you get a bit more stuff to start and you're used to wielding that one weapon. And weapons are prime targets for sundering attempts. Your arcane caster can make it his focus, but that's really just a good idea with cool background material attached.


Gorbacz wrote:
Until you lose that weapon for some reason, in which case you wasted a trair.

Or gained an adventure hook, depending on how you lost it. :-)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There's nothing as sweet for the DM as players who really, really, REALLY, "I blew a feat/trait/100k for this FFS" want that one particular item back. Almost had my PCs take a trip to the Abyss in order to recover a +3 sword lost in a demon-infested town. Om nom nom nom.


Look, as someone who likes to play gish types (including divine based)
i can't see any reason NOT to take this feat. Ever. Now a Human can start proficient with an heirloom Elven Curve Blade (arcane focus) which immediately is masterwork (+1 to hit and damage) and the trait bonus (+1 to hit)

having a decent str score with what is essentially a free +2 to hit at level 1 is awesome.....


Ardenup wrote:

Look, as someone who likes to play gish types (including divine based)

i can't see any reason NOT to take this feat. Ever. Now a Human can start proficient with an heirloom Elven Curve Blade (arcane focus) which immediately is masterwork (+1 to hit and damage) and the trait bonus (+1 to hit)

having a decent str score with what is essentially a free +2 to hit at level 1 is awesome.....

Yeah, that's pretty much it. The only downside is getting your weapon sundered/lost/stolen/destroyed, and that's a touchy issue for some people. I know some players who consider that a "dick move" on the part of the GM. YMMV.


hogarth wrote:
Ardenup wrote:

Look, as someone who likes to play gish types (including divine based)

i can't see any reason NOT to take this feat. Ever. Now a Human can start proficient with an heirloom Elven Curve Blade (arcane focus) which immediately is masterwork (+1 to hit and damage) and the trait bonus (+1 to hit)

having a decent str score with what is essentially a free +2 to hit at level 1 is awesome.....

Yeah, that's pretty much it. The only downside is getting your weapon sundered/lost/stolen/destroyed, and that's a touchy issue for some people. I know some players who consider that a "dick move" on the part of the GM. YMMV.

True, bad that's a risk going with a Bonded Weapon as an arcane focus anyway....

Liberty's Edge

If that's the whole trait, then no, it's not really overpowered. If I'm reading it correctly, you are getting +2 to hit (MW bonus and trait bonus) which, at low levels is alot, but by 2nd or 3rd level you'll have a magic weapon that will out-do this and you've just wasted a trait (when you could have gone with something that gave you bonuses to initiative, saves, skills, etc.). Now if this weapon got better as you levelled (like traditional heirloom weapons), then yeah, it would be overpowered.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I agree it sounds pretty awesome. Yes, you might lose the weapon, but at my table (where I both DM and play sometimes) any DM who made a player permanently lose this weapon would be considered a dick. No two ways about it (temporarily...for say, a single adventure, that's a different story).

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Ardenup wrote:

Look, as someone who likes to play gish types (including divine based)

i can't see any reason NOT to take this feat. Ever. Now a Human can start proficient with an heirloom Elven Curve Blade (arcane focus) which immediately is masterwork (+1 to hit and damage) and the trait bonus (+1 to hit)

having a decent str score with what is essentially a free +2 to hit at level 1 is awesome.....

There is another catch though too.

You are proficient with that Elven Curve Blade only. Even if you find another one, you are not actually proficient in it.

However, since it is automatically Masterwork, a Cleric or Wizard with the appropriate Craft Item feat could enchant your Hierloom.


Xpltvdeleted wrote:
If that's the whole trait, then no, it's not really overpowered. If I'm reading it correctly, you are getting +2 to hit (MW bonus and trait bonus) which, at low levels is alot, but by 2nd or 3rd level you'll have a magic weapon that will out-do this and you've just wasted a trait (when you could have gone with something that gave you bonuses to initiative, saves, skills, etc.). Now if this weapon got better as you levelled (like traditional heirloom weapons), then yeah, it would be overpowered.

Well, in my experience an exotic weapon user usually pays for his own weapon to get upgraded rather than hoping that a +3 flaming man-catcher (say) gets dropped as treasure.

Liberty's Edge

hogarth wrote:
Xpltvdeleted wrote:
If that's the whole trait, then no, it's not really overpowered. If I'm reading it correctly, you are getting +2 to hit (MW bonus and trait bonus) which, at low levels is alot, but by 2nd or 3rd level you'll have a magic weapon that will out-do this and you've just wasted a trait (when you could have gone with something that gave you bonuses to initiative, saves, skills, etc.). Now if this weapon got better as you levelled (like traditional heirloom weapons), then yeah, it would be overpowered.
Well, in my experience an exotic weapon user usually pays for his own weapon to get upgraded rather than hoping that a +3 flaming man-catcher (say) gets dropped as treasure.

True, but it doesn't necessarily have to be exotic, does it? And I was referring to the 3.5 book Weapons of Legacy (IIRC) that had the heirloom weapons that increased in power as your character progressed.

But yeah, from the aspect of being able to pay to upgrade it, etc. (which, admittadely, I had not thought of--blonde moment i guess), this is a pretty powerful feat. If I'm reading this correctly, not only do you get proficiency and a masterwork weapon (this will eventually be superceded by magical bonuses, etc.) but you get a trait bonus on attacks which will stack with any other bonuses you may be getting (WF, magic, weapon training, etc.). This is pretty damn powerful IMHO and should cost you both of your traits, since you're essentially getting a stackable weapon focus feat for free.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

1. Since weapons are so darn expensive it's rare, even at high pre-epic levels, to fight an NPC (with NPC wealth) who can drop a very powerful weapon (+7 equivalent or greater).
2. People who care about weapons pay more for their weapon than any other single piece of treasure (~200,000 gp).

Taken together my point is, for people who care about their weapon, they all have to buy it/upgrade it. Even if you just use a longsword, it's tough to wait to find that +10 equivalent longsword. Only characters who view weapons as a side show (e.g., bards, clerics, and druids) might be able to live at high levels off of weapon "drops." Since everyone's upgrading, being forced to upgrade your heirloom weapon (vs. another weapon) isn't much of a disadvantage.

Basically, this thing is only balanced if your DM is willing to intentionally jerk the player around sometimes...stealing or smashing the PCs weapon. To me, that's not good balance. It's like in 2E when swashbucklers were extra good...based on the assumption the DM would make life extra difficult for that character.


Xpltvdeleted wrote:
This is pretty damn powerful IMHO and should cost you both of your traits, since you're essentially getting a stackable weapon focus feat for free.

As currently written, I think it's about as powerful as a feat (or two traits, as you suggest).

Without the free proficiency or without the +1 trait bonus to attacks, I think it would be a reasonable trait.

Liberty's Edge

It sounds like a good mechanic for a backstory that is pretty common.

The restriction of the automatic proficiency to that particular weapon, I believe, does a lot to limit it.

Smart creatures will often try to sunder the weapons of, or disarm combatants that are harming them. That's not being a 'dick' DM, that's playing the creature to its proper intelligence level.

It's merely another drawback (and something the player should take into account) for choosing the trait.


hogarth wrote:
Ardenup wrote:

Look, as someone who likes to play gish types (including divine based)

i can't see any reason NOT to take this feat. Ever. Now a Human can start proficient with an heirloom Elven Curve Blade (arcane focus) which immediately is masterwork (+1 to hit and damage) and the trait bonus (+1 to hit)

having a decent str score with what is essentially a free +2 to hit at level 1 is awesome.....

Yeah, that's pretty much it. The only downside is getting your weapon sundered/lost/stolen/destroyed, and that's a touchy issue for some people. I know some players who consider that a "dick move" on the part of the GM. YMMV.

I would just be up front with anyone taking this trait.

"Look some creatures/NPCs are built to sunder weapons. Understand that something bad may happen to you heirloom and keep that in mind if you decide to go with it."

As for lost/stolen. Only as a plot device with every intention of the PC getting it back, likely somewhat enchanted/upgraded by the jerk NPC who stole it for his own use. For instance, that would be a great way to have the weapon gain it's initial +1 enhancement.


Killer DM #0664 wrote:

"Look some creatures/NPCs are built to sunder weapons. Understand that something bad may happen to you heirloom and keep that in mind if you decide to go with it."

As for lost/stolen. Only as a plot device with every intention of the PC getting it back, likely somewhat enchanted/upgraded by the jerk NPC who stole it for his own use. For instance, that would be a great way to have the weapon gain it's initial +1 enhancement.

Love that idea for a plot hook.

And as for being sundered, lets be clear that in almost every case that is a temporary issue. Make Whole in a second level spell. Just make sure you a buy a scroll or two of it for your friendly neighborhood wizard. A very wise investment, especially considering the gp you saved on not paying for a mw weapon.

Though, as hogarth said, I could easily see this being two seperate traits.

Family Heirloom trait: Your heirloom weapon is of masterwork quality (but you pay only the standard cost at character creation). You are considered proficient with that specific weapon (but not other weapons of that type) even if you do not have the required proficiencies.

Legacy Weapon trait: Choose one of your starting weapons. You gain a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls and combat maneuvers. (In line with the Sword Scion trait)

Liberty's Edge

Killer DM #0664 wrote:
hogarth wrote:
Ardenup wrote:

Look, as someone who likes to play gish types (including divine based)

i can't see any reason NOT to take this feat. Ever. Now a Human can start proficient with an heirloom Elven Curve Blade (arcane focus) which immediately is masterwork (+1 to hit and damage) and the trait bonus (+1 to hit)

having a decent str score with what is essentially a free +2 to hit at level 1 is awesome.....

Yeah, that's pretty much it. The only downside is getting your weapon sundered/lost/stolen/destroyed, and that's a touchy issue for some people. I know some players who consider that a "dick move" on the part of the GM. YMMV.

I would just be up front with anyone taking this trait.

"Look some creatures/NPCs are built to sunder weapons. Understand that something bad may happen to you heirloom and keep that in mind if you decide to go with it."

As for lost/stolen. Only as a plot device with every intention of the PC getting it back, likely somewhat enchanted/upgraded by the jerk NPC who stole it for his own use. For instance, that would be a great way to have the weapon gain it's initial +1 enhancement.

This isn't a bad idea at all. Another thing to consider is that if it's an heirloom weapon, it will probably be recognizeable in some circles ie.-the guy whose father was killed by it, etc. It can be a great plot hook/storyline device, but it comes back to the fact that, for half a feat, you are gaining proficiency, a masterwork weapon, and +1 to hit that stacks with all other feats. This is the equivalent of 2 feats and a trait all rolled up into one trait (weapon proficiency, weapon focus, and any of the various trats that would give you enough money to purchase a MW weapon).

Liberty's Edge

Another question: if you were to use the trait to get a bow, would you be able to get one with a strength modifier? Does it limit what type of weapon you can get or how much it can cost?


Xpltvdeleted wrote:
Another question: if you were to use the trait to get a bow, would you be able to get one with a strength modifier? Does it limit what type of weapon you can get or how much it can cost?

You still have to pay the non-masterwork price. With each +1 str being 100 gp a pop, the only way I could see that working is if you also had Rich Parents as your other trait.

Grand Lodge

Within the scope of a home-style game, this trait is not over-powered. As others have said, sunder/disarm becomes much more frightening than normal. Since crafting/enchanting takes game time, you might have to adventure without your heirloom weapon periodically unless you have an extended down-time in town. However, it does open up alot of role-playing options.

Where the trait becomes much more powerful is in organized play. I have run a number of the society scenarios. So far, none have incuded a sundering opponent, and only one contained a caryatid column that caused damage to your weapon when you stuck it. So the chances of loosing your weapon are nearly zero. And with the ease of enhancing, heirloom weapon definately carries the weight of a feat.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't see how this is any worse than the Aldori Swordlord trait which gives you proficiency and a +1 trait bonus to attack rolls with longswords and Aldori dueling swords.

Take away my longsword? I'll just get a new one!


Ravingdork wrote:

I don't see how this is any worse than the Aldori Swordlord trait which gives you proficiency and a +1 trait bonus to attack rolls with longswords and Aldori dueling swords.

Take away my longsword? I'll just get a new one!

I assume you're referring to Sword Scion, from the Kingmaker player's guide. It does not give proficiency.


About this trait, would the fact that you are "considered proficient with the weapon" allow you to take feats like weapon focus or weapon proficiency for that specific weapon without taking the weapon proficiency feat for the weapon type first?


Ainslan wrote:
About this trait, would the fact that you are "considered proficient with the weapon" allow you to take feats like weapon focus or weapon proficiency for that specific weapon without taking the weapon proficiency feat for the weapon type first?

I would say yes, but again the feats would only apply to the one particular weapon since you wouldn't have the prerequisite proficiency with the Elven Curve Blade you borrowed from Jim down the road.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Varthanna wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

I don't see how this is any worse than the Aldori Swordlord trait which gives you proficiency and a +1 trait bonus to attack rolls with longswords and Aldori dueling swords.

Take away my longsword? I'll just get a new one!

I assume you're referring to Sword Scion, from the Kingmaker player's guide. It does not give proficiency.

Yes, Sword Scion. I still fail to see how it is any less powerful than the trait being discussed in this thread. It is slightly less versatile (being limited to longswords and Aldori duelign swords), but it can never be taken away from you.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You can make any weapon a hierloom. Including The Weapons That Matter (read: 2h martial weapons). With Sword Scion you're stuck with either a longsword or an exotic weapon you need to blow a feat on.


Ravingdork wrote:
Yes, Sword Scion. I still fail to see how it is any less powerful than the trait being discussed in this thread. It is slightly less versatile (being limited to longswords and Aldori duelign swords), but it can never be taken away from you.

As I said above, without the free weapon proficiency, then it's about right for a trait (like Sword Scion).


Ravingdork wrote:
Varthanna wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

I don't see how this is any worse than the Aldori Swordlord trait which gives you proficiency and a +1 trait bonus to attack rolls with longswords and Aldori dueling swords.

Take away my longsword? I'll just get a new one!

I assume you're referring to Sword Scion, from the Kingmaker player's guide. It does not give proficiency.
Yes, Sword Scion. I still fail to see how it is any less powerful than the trait being discussed in this thread. It is slightly less versatile (being limited to longswords and Aldori duelign swords), but it can never be taken away from you.

This trait gives you the profficiency. Thus, you can pick up exotic weapons or weapons outside your normal class. That alone IMO is worth a trait. Then, it tacks on an additional +1 to hit, annother ability stronger than most traits, and equal to the one you cited. Finally, it gives you the very minor first adventure boost of a masterwork weapon, which some consider in line with a trait's power. Its only drawback is requiring a specific weapon to be enchanted. In my experience, this is not an issue, as you will be spending the time getting customized weapons anyway.

Overall, I think it is a little overpowered, but really like it. If it were 2 seprate feats I would probably like it more. Too bad I can't make the exotic weapon user that I want with it without a feat though. Shuriken get no love.

Liberty's Edge

This is one of the few traits that is VERY easy to lose its effect. It's total worth is extra starting gold is about 400-500. Then it gives you a +1 to hit, again tied to a specific item. It is not something I pick for any of my fighter types. There are many more traits that have more appeal. I would hardly call it overpowered. I'd much rather have a trait that gave a new class skill, a save bonus or a attack bonus tied to a weapon type.

It does allow for a good story background write-up about a weapon handed down for several generations. Being masterwork, you could give it a nice fancy description and a unique look and feel(hence it being a unique free weapon proficiency)

Liberty's Edge

on the overpowered note, I'd say rich parents is stronger than Heirloom Weapon. You can start with Masterwork weapon, shield, armor and a good number of alchemical items and still have money left over.


Ardenup wrote:

Look, as someone who likes to play gish types (including divine based)

i can't see any reason NOT to take this feat. Ever. Now a Human can start proficient with an heirloom Elven Curve Blade (arcane focus) which immediately is masterwork (+1 to hit and damage) and the trait bonus (+1 to hit)

Just an FYI, Masterwork does not add to the damage bonus.

Pathfinder SRD, Masterwork Weapons wrote:

Masterwork Weapons

A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls.


Shar Tahl wrote:
on the overpowered note, I'd say rich parents is stronger than Heirloom Weapon. You can start with Masterwork weapon, shield, armor and a good number of alchemical items and still have money left over.

Rich parrents gets you nothing after level 1... This gives you profficiency and a permanent +1 on a weapon you will keep with you for your entire adventuring career if you can. Enchanting is no different than attempting to hunt down that special magic item you want, especially when you use a non-standard weapon.


Also, Rich Parents is PFS illegal, Heirloom Weapon is PFS legal.


Many traits have the basic structure

Advantage: some minor benefit
Disadvantage: none

With this trait, there are several potential disadvantages. Those disadvantages should mean that the advantages can be larger without it being unbalanced. However, unlike some possible disadvantages, the disadvantages of this trait require active effort on the part of the GM, to actively remove the heirloom weapon.

At some tables, this is seen as inappropriate behavior, so there is pressure on the GM to allow the full advantage without imposing the disadvantage. A trait that granted +2 to one save but -1 to another save clearly has a better benefit than most traits (equal to a feat), but should be less controversial, since no one is going to have problems with the GM fully enforcing the disadvantage. (That trait still might be unbalanced, but it is unlikely to garner responses of both "why would someone not take this trait" and "why would anyone take this trait".)

I think there is also one additional disadvantage that has not been mentioned. You certainly cannot have the heirloom weapon be made of adamantine, and cold iron or alchemical silver is also questionable. Which means that, until the weapon is enchanted to +3, you cannot overcome DR/material with the weapon.

Liberty's Edge

It's not even active NPC item destruction attempts that endanger this(Thats a whole new thread on whether is is "mean" for a GM to utilize sunder). A seldom enforced item save rule for area effect spells could break it too.(I know I don't bother with item saves on roll of a 1 on a save) A fireball could easily destroy the heirloom weapon with a string of bad luck on rolling.

As for PFS use, it's really only an advantage on your characters first use. After 1 or 2 sessions, you can easily afford a masterwork weapon. It ends up being just a +1 to hit being its overall advantage


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I agree the DR-thing is a disadvantage I had not considered.

If you're a full BAB class though, I'd just carry a few of the relevant arrows until my weapon attained sufficient "plus" to overcome that DR type. That would be my general strategy even without this feat, so it isn't really a change in my tactical plan.

I still think heirloom weapon is too good. I think if you introduce it into the game you will suddenly see more than half of the PCs select it. That's your first clue it's too good. Let the market tell you.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I may see less sundering that average at my table. I've never seen a PC puruse it ("hey, buddy, stop breaking all those weapons that are going to become ours in a minute!") and I've never seen a DM use it unless the monster specifically automatically includes the ability (a bebelith, a rust monster, etc).

So that might make heirloom weapon *extra* good in our games, because you would know the DM would really have deliberately gone out of his way to break your weapon.

Still, I think many games have the same overall philosphy on sundering. As for losing the weapon, that's almost always a DM-generated action, which would be even more exceptional.


Shar Tahl wrote:
It's not even active NPC item destruction attempts that endanger this(Thats a whole new thread on whether is is "mean" for a GM to utilize sunder). A seldom enforced item save rule for area effect spells could break it too.(I know I don't bother with item saves on roll of a 1 on a save) A fireball could easily destroy the heirloom weapon with a string of bad luck on rolling.

Sure, and then you get it fixed (either with Make Whole, or by re-enchanting it which takes half the cost of crafting a magic item in the first place). That's not really any different from having a non-heirloom item break.


drsparnum wrote:
I may see less sundering that average at my table. I've never seen a PC puruse it ("hey, buddy, stop breaking all those weapons that are going to become ours in a minute!") and I've never seen a DM use it unless the monster specifically automatically includes the ability (a bebelith, a rust monster, etc).

I know I already mentioned it once in this thread, but we had a group with a sunder-specialist in a game I played in. Adamantine great axe, power attacking destruction. The benefits VASTLY outweighed the cost of repairing the broken items. A scroll of Make Whole = 150gp, removing a +5 unholy greatsword from the clutches of an fiend = priceless

Liberty's Edge

A base scroll of Make Whole will repair very few items. It requires a CLx2 of item

PRD:

Make Whole:
Make whole can fix destroyed magic items (at 0 hit points or less), and restores the magic properties of the item if your caster level is at least twice that of the item. Items with charges (such as wands) and single-use items (such as potions and scrolls) cannot be repaired in this way. When make whole is used on a construct creature, the spell bypasses any immunity to magic as if the spell did not allow spell resistance.


Shar Tahl wrote:
A base scroll of Make Whole will repair very few items. It requires a CLx2 of item

Right, but re-enchanting a weapon is half the price of crafting a new one anyways. There's basically no situation where you should throw away a broken (non-charged) magic item and replace it with a new one, whether it's an heirloom item or not.

Liberty's Edge

hogarth wrote:
Shar Tahl wrote:
A base scroll of Make Whole will repair very few items. It requires a CLx2 of item
Right, but re-enchanting a weapon is half the price of crafting a new one anyways. There's basically no situation where you should throw away a broken (non-charged) magic item and replace it with a new one, whether it's an heirloom item or not.

Bit if your items is destroyed (0 or less) it loses all properties. A +5 weapon destroyed like this would require a CL30 Make Whole to restore it to +5. Otherwise it is just restored to normal masterwork and you start over enchanting it to +5 again with 50,000 gold

**Edit**

sorry for this tangent here. Basically, this isn't as overpower as it seems. yes, MANY will take it because it's a free item and people seem to get happy about using exotic weapons. The overall power level of the character taking this feat will not be an significant amount over someone not taking it. As I stated before, I personally would only take this for character flavor.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I would still consider this overpowered, but as an option for those only slightly disinclined to allow this trait:

Benefit: This heirloom weapon is of masterwork quality (but you pay only the standard cost at character creation). You are considered proficient with this specific weapon (but not other weapons of that type) even if you do not have the required proficiencies. If you are proficient with weapons of that type, gain a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls with that specific weapon.

Liberty's Edge

Majuba wrote:

I would still consider this overpowered, but as an option for those only slightly disinclined to allow this trait:

Benefit: This heirloom weapon is of masterwork quality (but you pay only the standard cost at character creation). You are considered proficient with this specific weapon (but not other weapons of that type) even if you do not have the required proficiencies. If you are proficient with weapons of that type, gain a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls with that specific weapon.

Is using a weapon not normally on the class list that big of a problem? Cleric's do it with their deity weapon.

Grand Lodge

As a feat I have no issues with it...as a trait...well see previous :P .

Liberty's Edge

Shar Tahl wrote:
Majuba wrote:

I would still consider this overpowered, but as an option for those only slightly disinclined to allow this trait:

Benefit: This heirloom weapon is of masterwork quality (but you pay only the standard cost at character creation). You are considered proficient with this specific weapon (but not other weapons of that type) even if you do not have the required proficiencies. If you are proficient with weapons of that type, gain a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls with that specific weapon.

Is using a weapon not normally on the class list that big of a problem? Cleric's do it with their deity weapon.

I think it's more the permanent weapon focus that stacks with, well, weapon focus. That alone is a feat...granted it only works with one specific weapon, but it's still a bit much (to me at least).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Shar Tahl wrote:
Is using a weapon not normally on the class list that big of a problem? Cleric's do it with their deity weapon.

Yes. I know plenty of people who choose their deity based on that free weapon proficiency for instance.

Also, this is *better* than exotic weapon proficiency, just on the proficiency side. For a martial character, it's equal to it. However, a character without +1 BAB at first level does not qualify for the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat. But they can take this.

For the record, I offered a feat in my Runelords game that *only* gave a masterwork weapon at first level, and it was chosen.

If anyone's looking to nudge this lower yet, could make it weapon familiarity instead of proficiency (free proficiency if martial or simple, or considered martial if exotic).

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