Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

PaizoCon 2014!

Adventurer's Armory - Meteor Hammer


Rules Questions


So the meteor hammer says that, at your option, a successful 'trip' draws an enemy five feet closer.

However, there is no indicator that the meteor hammer is a reach weapon... so how does that work? Do you need to be large-sized to gain the benefit from that trait?

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

The Adventurer's Armory is a little messed up, and there's been a decent amount of errata. The full description is here:

Meteor Hammer wrote:
This weapon is one or two spherical weights attached by a 10-foot chain. You whirl the weights and wrap them around an opponent’s body. If you succeed at a trip attempt with a meteor hammer, you can drag your opponent 5 feet closer rather than knocking her prone. You may use this weapon in two different ways: in meteor mode you use it as a double weapon but do not gain reach, and in fortress mode you cannot use it as a double weapon but gain a +1 shield bonus to AC and reach. Switching between these two modes is a free action decided at the start of your turn.

The updated weapon with all errata can be located here.

In short, if you use the hammer in meteor mode then there is no reach. In fortress mode, you get reach. So if you trip someone while in meteor mode then (unless you are Large size or greater) you cannot drag them closer. If you trip them while in fortress mode then you can drag them closer.


Well, I don´t have the original Adv. Arm., but here it is clearly states that the Meteor Hammer has the reach and trip property.

So my interpretation is that you can use it as single or double weapon with reach, pull the opponent 5 feet into your direction at a successful trip attempt but you are not allowed to attack him anymore if he end up in an adjected square.


I also have a question about Meteor Hammer.

In meteor mode, the MH can be used as a double weapon, but then how do you deal with magical enhancements ??

Let's say my PC have a Meteor Hammer +1 Flaming. In meteor mode, do I consider both end as +1 Flaming ? or only one ? Do I have to pay twice the Masterwork cost to have a Masterwork MH ??


All double weapons are created in a similar way:

Quote:
Creating magic double-headed weapons is treated as creating two weapons when determining cost, time, XP, and special abilities.

EDIT 1: so yes, everything x2

EDIT 2: But when I think of the way how a meteor hammer is wieled the big question is if it seems reasonable to just use one end of the weapon. For a quarterstaff e.g. it seems easy by holding it at one end and striking with the other. But a meteor hammer always swings around your body probably hitting enemies with both ends (search youtube). Nevertheless by RAW it is clearly defined as a "Double weapon".


Then why doesn't the Meteor Hammer have the trait Double Weapon ??


Mhhh, don´t know.

You are correct that the Double Weapon trait is not listed for the Meteor Hammer. On the other hand it is the only weapon that can be used as a Double Weapon under special circumstances only and not all the time, while reach and trip always apply. I would rule that the special condition in the text overrides the missing trait.


Ploppy wrote:
On the other hand it is the only weapon that can be used as a Double Weapon under special circumstances only and not all the time, while reach and trip always apply.

Reach doesn't apply in meteor mode ...


According to Nethys Archives you lose reach as a Double Weapon. This is also true for the LoF-Version.

According to D20pfsrd - since Adv. Arm. - nothing is written about losing reach.

I don´t have Adv. Arm., so can some please clarify what the written version is.


Ploppy wrote:

According to Nethys Archives you lose reach as a Double Weapon. This is also true for the LoF-Version.

According to D20pfsrd - since Adv. Arm. - nothing is written about losing reach.

I don´t have Adv. Arm., so can some please clarify what the written version is.

I'd also like to know whether in meteor mode the Meteor Hammer is a double weapon as I am thinking of building a character around this (gotta love a good bludgeoning weapon :) )

HH

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

The version on the Archives of Nethys includes errata from Sean Reynolds found in this thread. Sean clarifies exactly what the meteor hammer should do along with a large number of other AA items.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Meteor hammer should be "reach, trip, see text" and the description should mention that the reach ability is only usable in fortress mode (otherwise it is clearly better than the spiked chain, which got toned down in PF to something more reasonable).

I've been through the entire thread a few times and am 99% certain that my Archives have all the current errata included. At least where the AA is concerned.


Karui Kage wrote:

The version on the Archives of Nethys includes errata from Sean Reynolds found in this thread. Sean clarifies exactly what the meteor hammer should do along with a large number of other AA items.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Meteor hammer should be "reach, trip, see text" and the description should mention that the reach ability is only usable in fortress mode (otherwise it is clearly better than the spiked chain, which got toned down in PF to something more reasonable).
I've been through the entire thread a few times and am 99% certain that my Archives have all the current errata included. At least where the AA is concerned.

I have read your archives on the weapon. It looks to be the same as what is written in the SRD. However, neither of these passages answers the question of when the Meteor Hammer is used in meteor mode as a double weapon (when it loses it's reach status), does it get the same double weapon status as other double weapons, like a quarterstaff which can also be used as a single or double weapon? I mean, if you look at the quarterstaff on the weapon table it is clear by the damage numbers that yes you can land two separate attacks with it and deal damage twice. However, although, as you say, it clearly says it can be used as a double weapon, this is not reflected in the damage numbers. Without said double weapon status why would anyone use the Meteor Hammer when they could use a flail in both hands, do 1d8 damage each and get disarm/trip with both of them?

HH

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Hockey_Hippie wrote:
Karui Kage wrote:

The version on the Archives of Nethys includes errata from Sean Reynolds found in this thread. Sean clarifies exactly what the meteor hammer should do along with a large number of other AA items.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Meteor hammer should be "reach, trip, see text" and the description should mention that the reach ability is only usable in fortress mode (otherwise it is clearly better than the spiked chain, which got toned down in PF to something more reasonable).
I've been through the entire thread a few times and am 99% certain that my Archives have all the current errata included. At least where the AA is concerned.

I have read your archives on the weapon. It looks to be the same as what is written in the SRD. However, neither of these passages answers the question of when the Meteor Hammer is used in meteor mode as a double weapon (when it loses it's reach status), does it get the same double weapon status as other double weapons (IE like a quarterstaff which can also be used as a single or double weapon)?

HH

What do you mean? What is 'double weapon status' except being able to be used as a double weapon? What other features does this status confer?


Paul Watson wrote:
Hockey_Hippie wrote:
Karui Kage wrote:

The version on the Archives of Nethys includes errata from Sean Reynolds found in this thread. Sean clarifies exactly what the meteor hammer should do along with a large number of other AA items.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Meteor hammer should be "reach, trip, see text" and the description should mention that the reach ability is only usable in fortress mode (otherwise it is clearly better than the spiked chain, which got toned down in PF to something more reasonable).
I've been through the entire thread a few times and am 99% certain that my Archives have all the current errata included. At least where the AA is concerned.

I have read your archives on the weapon. It looks to be the same as what is written in the SRD. However, neither of these passages answers the question of when the Meteor Hammer is used in meteor mode as a double weapon (when it loses it's reach status), does it get the same double weapon status as other double weapons (IE like a quarterstaff which can also be used as a single or double weapon)?

HH

What do you mean? What is 'double weapon status' except being able to be used as a double weapon? What other features does this status confer?

Sorry, I edited my post at the same time you were answering it :)

Here is the addendum:

I mean, if you look at the quarterstaff on the weapon table it is clear by the damage numbers that yes you can land two separate attacks with it and deal damage twice. However, although, as you say, it clearly says it can be used as a double weapon, this is not reflected in the damage numbers. Without said double weapon status why would anyone use the Meteor Hammer when they could use a Flail in either hand, do 1d8 damage each and get disarm/trip with both of them?

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Hockey_Hippie wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:
Hockey_Hippie wrote:
Karui Kage wrote:

The version on the Archives of Nethys includes errata from Sean Reynolds found in this thread. Sean clarifies exactly what the meteor hammer should do along with a large number of other AA items.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Meteor hammer should be "reach, trip, see text" and the description should mention that the reach ability is only usable in fortress mode (otherwise it is clearly better than the spiked chain, which got toned down in PF to something more reasonable).
I've been through the entire thread a few times and am 99% certain that my Archives have all the current errata included. At least where the AA is concerned.

I have read your archives on the weapon. It looks to be the same as what is written in the SRD. However, neither of these passages answers the question of when the Meteor Hammer is used in meteor mode as a double weapon (when it loses it's reach status), does it get the same double weapon status as other double weapons (IE like a quarterstaff which can also be used as a single or double weapon)?

HH

What do you mean? What is 'double weapon status' except being able to be used as a double weapon? What other features does this status confer?

Sorry, I edited my post at the same time you were answering it :)

Here is the addendum:

I mean, if you look at the quarterstaff on the weapon table it is clear by the damage numbers that yes you can land two separate attacks with it and deal damage twice. However, although, as you say, it clearly says it can be used as a double weapon, this is not reflected in the damage numbers. Without said double weapon status why would anyone use the Meteor Hammer when they could use a Flail in either hand, do 1d8 damage each and get disarm/trip with both of them?

I still don't understand. When does it say the damage changes? If it doesn't say it changes, why would you think it does? A Metoer Hammer has two modes. In one it has reach, functions as a trip weapon, gains +1 shield AC and does d10 damage. In the other it is a double weapon, a trip weapoon and does d10 damage with each end.


Paul Watson wrote:
Hockey_Hippie wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:
Hockey_Hippie wrote:
Karui Kage wrote:

The version on the Archives of Nethys includes errata from Sean Reynolds found in this thread. Sean clarifies exactly what the meteor hammer should do along with a large number of other AA items.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Meteor hammer should be "reach, trip, see text" and the description should mention that the reach ability is only usable in fortress mode (otherwise it is clearly better than the spiked chain, which got toned down in PF to something more reasonable).
I've been through the entire thread a few times and am 99% certain that my Archives have all the current errata included. At least where the AA is concerned.

I have read your archives on the weapon. It looks to be the same as what is written in the SRD. However, neither of these passages answers the question of when the Meteor Hammer is used in meteor mode as a double weapon (when it loses it's reach status), does it get the same double weapon status as other double weapons (IE like a quarterstaff which can also be used as a single or double weapon)?

HH

What do you mean? What is 'double weapon status' except being able to be used as a double weapon? What other features does this status confer?

Sorry, I edited my post at the same time you were answering it :)

Here is the addendum:

I mean, if you look at the quarterstaff on the weapon table it is clear by the damage numbers that yes you can land two separate attacks with it and deal damage twice. However, although, as you say, it clearly says it can be used as a double weapon, this is not reflected in the damage numbers. Without said double weapon status why would anyone use the Meteor Hammer when they could use a Flail in either hand, do 1d8 damage each and get disarm/trip with both of them?

I still don't understand. When does it say the damage changes? If it doesn't...

Ok, so you are saying that as a double weapon, you get two attacks with it and each attack does 1d10 Damage? I ask to confirm because if you notice where the weapons listings are, any other double weapon has the damage listed twice (the quarterstaff for instance is listed as 1d6/1d6). However, under damage for the Meteor Hammer it only lists a single 1d10. Ergo my confusion.

HH

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Hockey_Hippie wrote:

Ok, so you are saying that as a double weapon, you get two attacks with it and each attack does 1d10 Damage? I ask to confirm because if you notice where the weapons listings are, any other double weapon has the damage listed twice (the quarterstaff for instance is listed as 1d6/1d6). However, under damage for the Meteor Hammer it only lists a single 1d10. Ergo my confusion.

HH

That is indeed what I'm saying. Which makes it a very damaging double weapon, indeed. Hadn't noticed they'd upped the damage from the original d8. Now, I grant you that it should have said "d10 or d10/d10, see text" but that probably took up too much space. As I said, in the absence of a n explicitly noted change in damage, I'd use the original damage for each end.


Paul Watson wrote:
Hockey_Hippie wrote:

Ok, so you are saying that as a double weapon, you get two attacks with it and each attack does 1d10 Damage? I ask to confirm because if you notice where the weapons listings are, any other double weapon has the damage listed twice (the quarterstaff for instance is listed as 1d6/1d6). However, under damage for the Meteor Hammer it only lists a single 1d10. Ergo my confusion.

HH

That is indeed what I'm saying. Which makes it a very damaging double weapon, indeed. Hadn't noticed they'd upped the damage from the original d8. Now, I grant you that it should have said "d10 or d10/d10, see text" but that probably took up too much space. As I said, in the absence of a n explicitly noted change in damage, I'd use the original damage for each end.

Danke :)

Though might I suggest the following notation: "1d10(/1d10)"

HH


Hello Everyone,

Apologies if this has already been clarified. I have spent the last hour looking for the answer and havent been able to find it.

In the Adventurers Armory, the Meteor Hammer is listed at 10 g.p. cost. In teh Legacy of Fire book, it costs 100 g.p. Can someone kindly tell me which cost is correct?

Thanks,
X


Check on Nethys's site -- he'll have the correct price -- when in doubt go with the last published price (unless you have errata that says otherwise).

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

That is an awesome weapon.


Tecton wrote:
That is an awesome weapon.

Correction: "That is an overpowered weapon"

Compare it to two-bladed sword which has d8/d8 (19-20/x2)
So purely dmg wise it already outclasses the two-bladed sword, and then add to it the ability to have reach, trip, and +1AC as a free action...


Cilveran wrote:
Tecton wrote:
That is an awesome weapon.

Correction: "That is an overpowered weapon"

Compare it to two-bladed sword which has d8/d8 (19-20/x2)
So purely dmg wise it already outclasses the two-bladed sword, and then add to it the ability to have reach, trip, and +1AC as a free action...

See here is my problem with the meteor hammer:

During the beta the stated goal was, "To make feats worth taking." This was why toughness was improved for example -- to help eliminate the "trap" feats.

Then they nerfed the spike chain into being the worse weapon in the game with the logic, "Not every exotic weapon needs to be good -- it's just a fluff weapon and doesn't need to be worth the feat."

Which is a crap response given the stated goal of making all feats worth taking.

Following this they then put out the meteor hammer again -- after nerfing all the other exotic reach/close weapons and keep it the same.

The meteor hammer defies their explanation on why the spiked chain was junked (and most the other exotic weapons too) and turns any argument and legitimacy they had on the subject into a joke.


Cilveran wrote:
Tecton wrote:
That is an awesome weapon.

Correction: "That is an overpowered weapon"

Compare it to two-bladed sword which has d8/d8 (19-20/x2)
So purely dmg wise it already outclasses the two-bladed sword, and then add to it the ability to have reach, trip, and +1AC as a free action...

So it's an exotic weapon that's actually worthwhile :p

Remember, they pay a feat to use this.

Osirion

Yeah its sort of weird, especially after creating the dorn-dergar for dwarves and then making them take two feats to be able to use it like the old spiked chain, having reach and close range fighting with it.


ProfessorCirno wrote:
Cilveran wrote:
Tecton wrote:
That is an awesome weapon.

Correction: "That is an overpowered weapon"

Compare it to two-bladed sword which has d8/d8 (19-20/x2)
So purely dmg wise it already outclasses the two-bladed sword, and then add to it the ability to have reach, trip, and +1AC as a free action...

So it's an exotic weapon that's actually worthwhile :p

Remember, they pay a feat to use this.

Yeah, you pay a feat for this, but you also pay a feat for all other exotic weapons, like for example the Bastard Sword.

It is simply unbalanced...
If they wanted to balance it, they should nerf the d10 dmg down to d8, and the 19-20/x2 down to simply x2 like the double flail, but as is, it's kinda ridiculous.

Tbh though, most exotic weapons aren't really worth the feat, like ie the double flail. Give the poor weapon a 19-20/x2 crit and I'd take it...


Cilveran wrote:
ProfessorCirno wrote:
Cilveran wrote:
Tecton wrote:
That is an awesome weapon.

Correction: "That is an overpowered weapon"

Compare it to two-bladed sword which has d8/d8 (19-20/x2)
So purely dmg wise it already outclasses the two-bladed sword, and then add to it the ability to have reach, trip, and +1AC as a free action...

So it's an exotic weapon that's actually worthwhile :p

Remember, they pay a feat to use this.

Yeah, you pay a feat for this, but you also pay a feat for all other exotic weapons, like for example the Bastard Sword.

It is simply unbalanced...
If they wanted to balance it, they should nerf the d10 dmg down to d8, and the 19-20/x2 down to simply x2 like the double flail, but as is, it's kinda ridiculous.

Tbh though, most exotic weapons aren't really worth the feat, like ie the double flail. Give the poor weapon a 19-20/x2 crit and I'd take it...

Look at your last line. Compare it to what else you said.

Yes, this weapon is unbalanced compared to the other exotic weapons that aren't worth the feat. In the same light, greatswords are unbalanced compared to clubs.


Hehe, I realize it's a little messy, but I'll try clear up what I just tried to say:

Three statements:

1: In its current form the meteor hammer is overpowered no matter how you look at it, allowing you to use a 1d10 (19-20/x2) as an off-hand doubleweapon, plus giving you the option of going reach, trip, +1AC.
Almost no other weapon is worth using in comparison atm.

2: In their current form, most exotic weapons are underpowered, and so not worth the feat, but for the flavor I often use one no matter what.

3: What they should do is nerf the meteor hammer down to 1d8 (19-20/x2) dmg, and increase the stats of some of the other exotic weapons as well (such as give the double flail 19-20/x2 crit).

4: If they want to be consistent and don't want to better the other Exotic weapons, they should also remove the crit range of meteor hammer to try balance it out even more.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Rules Questions / Adventurer's Armory - Meteor Hammer All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.