1 Cleric, holy helper/destructor, you can make what you want.
2 Paladin, Fundamentalistic is always cool.
3 Druids, Tactical an comlex, i love it.
I kinda like the witch, it fits in more with the traditional mythic idea of a witch like Granny Weatherwax (Pratchett's Discworld)
Not quite. There's no headology power, or borrowing. ;-)
100% less Krusk, 100% more Tetragrammaton Cleric John Preston.
We need gun kata rage powers now.
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Unless I missed it reading through the list, I guess I'll be the first to say this:
Duelist ... I just think it's cool ^_^.
I nearly reduced my GM to tears with a combination of paladin and duelist.
Sure, it had a lot to do with him having no idea what sort of damage a high-level warrior character will do in Pathfinder, but it still means that the class is not bad, mechanically.
The Binder is an AWESOME class
I think binders are an awesome set of classes, actually. I played a spirit binder/devil binder once. A follower of Asmodeus who bound the essences of various devil types to him (as well as a selection of other LE spirits).
A wandering judge who would hold court in villages and towns who didn't have their own judge. As stern as he was in the court, as silver-tongued he was when he offered people deals.
Soul weavers look interesting, too.
The ever-customizable fighter takes the win for me. Though a few of the specialized wizards do it for me too.
My very first character was an (AD&D) Dwarven Fighter.
Our DM let us roll 3d6 for each attribute - no relocation - and I rolled a 18 followed by 00 as the first rolls in my now more than 20 year long weekly (A)D&D career.
However the last years I shifted from Fighter/Paladin to (still ever and always Dwarven) Cleric. I just wish combat healing would be more effective - I love playing the healer.
A houserule I picked up from a PBP game lately and that I've fallen in love with is this:
Reliable Healing: If you make a Heal check you can heal people with magic more effectively with magic. If you succeed when using cure x wounds spells, any result of four or lower counts as a four. Or if you succeed when using channel positive energy, any result of three or lower counts as a three. This check is a free action as part of using the ability. The DC for reliable cure spells is the same as the concentration DC for those spells. The DC for channel energy is DC 13 + 2 per d6 healed by the channel (base 15). This bonus can only be applied to spells and abilities that you yourself are casting or using, not from any item or any other means.
I know I already said before that my favourite class is druid, but I think I should add some more to the explanation:
First of all you are decent at a lot of things and still it's not a case of "Can do a little of everything, but is good at nothing", no druids are really useful in everything they do, be it melee, healing, blasting or something else.
Then there is the animal companion. I've always loved to have an animal around to share an innate connection with, and it always just looks cool to show up with that beast by your side.
Then there is wild shape. Druids are transformers and being a transformer is always awesome. I love transformers (even the Michael Bay movies)
Out of the Advanced Player's Guide classes, I'm also very intrigued by the summoner, he also has a badass companion and as an extra bonus gets to customize its looks completely. For me as an artist that's just irresistible.
I think binders are an awesome set of classes, actually. I played a spirit binder/devil binder once. A follower of Asmodeus who bound the essences of various devil types to him (as well as a selection of other LE spirits).
The Binder is an AWESOME class
I think we're talking about different classes... or a version of Binder I'm not familiar with. Or maybe just a reflavoring. Hard to tell.
Fighter, but I don't have a super strong preference. Playing a fighter now, if he dies, it will be something else next time.
Bard forever!
*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!
Bard forever!*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!
Once i rolled so poorly (highest was a 13, if i remember) and the DM was a douche and didn't let me reroll so i opted to play a merchant.
Actually turned out to be ok. Set up trade routes, 'hired' the other players to guard my caravan. I was rubbish but had so much gold i just blasted everything with all my magic items. Still...i'd probably prefer a bard (i've never played a bard btw).
Bard forever!*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!
Why?
Not having any particular class as your first choice is understandable, but what drives this extreme hatred of the Bard character class?
Bard forever!*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!
I hope your GM has read this and makes it your next character concept as punishment for your hubris!
I think we're talking about different classes... or a version of Binder I'm not familiar with. Or maybe just a reflavoring. Hard to tell.I think binders are an awesome set of classes, actually. I played a spirit binder/devil binder once. A follower of Asmodeus who bound the essences of various devil types to him (as well as a selection of other LE spirits).
The Binder is an AWESOME class
I'm talking about the binder classes from Secrets of Pact Magic, a great OGL (3.5e) book. It's a whole 300+ pages book just about pact magic. It has a few races, 9 base classes, about two dozen prestige classes, feats, spells, and lots of spirits: 50 "conventional" spirits (if you can call these entities conventional), 12 demon races as spirits for demon binders (they bind the essense of these races, not individuals), 12 devil spirits, 12 celestial spirits, and rules to make.
Pretty neat book.
Bard forever!*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!Why?
Not having any particular class as your first choice is understandable, but what drives this extreme hatred of the Bard character class?
My guess is either intense groupie-envy (Seoni and Merisiel both dig the bard!) or bottled-up rage for being made fun of by musicians all his miserable life. ;-)
Or, if you ask Freud, he wanted to be a musician, but his mother said she wouldn't like that and he was torn between his love for music and his attraction towards his mother.
Once i rolled so poorly (highest was a 13, if i remember) and the DM was a douche and didn't let me reroll
That's what you get for courting Lady Luck - she's actually twin sisters and you're stuck with whoever falls for you.
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Bard forever!*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!Why?
Not having any particular class as your first choice is understandable, but what drives this extreme hatred of the Bard character class?
They are...rather useless, compared to every other class in the core rulebook. As far as buffing goes, cleric blows them out of the water, wizard beats them for spell versatility, rogue beats them in melee damage, Druid does the same thing they do only better.
So when someone yells "I'm playing a Bard!", I roll my eyes and shake my head. Especially when you only have 4 players total.
They really need to up their power level in comparison to the other classes in the APG, because right now they really are only good as a cohort or a tag along NPC than a character class.
Gotta go with sorcerer.
Perhaps it's because my first character was a "Magic User" (basic D&D).
However, I think it's more than that. The ability to have what spell you need, when you need it, makes sorcerer my favorite over any related classes, like wizard.
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Bard forever!*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!Why?
Not having any particular class as your first choice is understandable, but what drives this extreme hatred of the Bard character class?
They are...rather useless, compared to every other class in the core rulebook. As far as buffing goes, cleric blows them out of the water, wizard beats them for spell versatility, rogue beats them in melee damage, Druid does the same thing they do only better.
So when someone yells "I'm playing a Bard!", I roll my eyes and shake my head. Especially when you only have 4 players total.
They really need to up their power level in comparison to the other classes in the APG, because right now they really are only good as a cohort or a tag along NPC than a character class.
Until one of those more powerful guys overestimates his abilities and gets himself killed which happens, oh I don't know every other week, and then everyone needs you to fill in the role that the dead guy filled until he can be raised.
But I think that answers the question. People who don't like the bard don't like it because they think the game is about being the best at one thing and if your good at everything but not the best at something, you suck. And I actually disagree about the cleric being a better buffer, but oh well cest la vie, I'm not going to degrade this thread with a power argument.
Bard forever!*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!Why?
Not having any particular class as your first choice is understandable, but what drives this extreme hatred of the Bard character class?
Bards are a great 5th wheel. If there are 5 party members and the other roles are filled, I'd rather have a bard than a second tank, or wizard, or healer or skill-monkey. They can be fun to roleplay, but its just not fun always being that 5th wheel.
Deal. I'm running Age of Worms.Bard forever!*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!
Right now I'm playing through Age of Worms with Pathfinder. 5 players and a healer NPC. The combat is such an absurdly easy cakewalk it almost puts me to sleep. We have a DM that upscales every fight too (at level 8 we fought a CR 14 without blinking) and is a good tactical thinker. Also our wizard usually goes invisible and hides every combat, so we can't rely on any buffs/battlefield control let alone blasting.
I've heard people say its hard, but for us it really hasn't been.
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Bard forever!*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!Why?
Not having any particular class as your first choice is understandable, but what drives this extreme hatred of the Bard character class?
They are...rather useless, compared to every other class in the core rulebook. As far as buffing goes, cleric blows them out of the water, wizard beats them for spell versatility, rogue beats them in melee damage, Druid does the same thing they do only better.
So when someone yells "I'm playing a Bard!", I roll my eyes and shake my head. Especially when you only have 4 players total.
They really need to up their power level in comparison to the other classes in the APG, because right now they really are only good as a cohort or a tag along NPC than a character class.
Until one of those more powerful guys overestimates his abilities and gets himself killed which happens, oh I don't know every other week, and then everyone needs you to fill in the role that the dead guy filled until he can be raised.
But I think that answers the question. People who don't like the bard don't like it because they think the game is about being the best at one thing and if your good at everything but not the best at something, you suck. And I actually disagree about the cleric being a better buffer, but oh well cest la vie, I'm not going to degrade this thread with a power argument.
No, the problem isn't bards are good at everything and best at nothing, the problem is that bards are mediocre at everything and good at nothing.
The problem is that people are terrible at being bards, which spreads the (false) belief that bards are terrible :U
Pathfinder bards are no fifth wheel.
I have to agree as well, from what I have saw the PF bard is a solid class. Folks playing them badly and the "I am in a singer in a musical " ideal have given the false ideal that the bard is a bad class. That simply is not the case.
PF bard is a fantastic class, and I doubt anyone will dispute that. I still feel they are a 5th wheel. They don't do what the "core 4" archetypes are meant to do as well as those classes.
Does it fight as well as a fighter? No. Laughable. No bonus feats, no heavy armor, medium BAB. Just no.
Does it heal as well as a cleric? Especially a Healing domain cleric? Heck no. At best you're busting out a few clutch CLWs or using wands out of combat, but with how good burst healing is you're not touching it.
Does it cast spells as well as a wizard? Well, no not even close. Lacks the versatility in utility spells for one. They do a great job with crowd control and buffing, but have very little (if any) battlefield control or blasting. They rely too much on illusions and enchantments, two of the most common things for enemies to be immune or resistant to. At least at moderate to high power levels. He has knowledge skills that will rival a wizard though, and that counts for a lot.
Does he have the skills of a rogue? Okay you've got me. In the end he's better in most respects than a rogue. He still can't disarm magical traps. Combatwise he just doesn't have the potential of a rogue.
In the end I feel a bard is an exceptional class out of combat and in roleplay encounters, or information gatherers. In combat they end up just giving other people bonuses, which is enough for me to not complain when someone ELSE wants to play one, but its not enough for me to want to play one myself. They may be top 5 in power and versatility, but they are second to last (after a cleric) in attractiveness to me personally.
I'll get round to playing one for PF eventually, and heck maybe I'll even change my tune, but for now I'd rather have almost anything else.
Actually, I think the problem is that the "core 4" don't exist.
You don't need a dedicated healer. At all. Until the spell "heal" becomes available, a bard with a wand of CLW is just as good as a cleric at healing. That's the thing - there isn't any "burst healing," at least not until the Heal spell is there.
There is no "heavy fighter" need either. I've been in tons of games with no designated "big armor dude." It's pretty dang easy.
Skills? Sure, bards can't disarm magical traps, but there's always a way to go outside the box, and the bard does that best.
The only "need" I've seen in 3e is "primary spellcaster." It doesn't have to be a wizard. It can be a cleric, or an archivist, or psion, or etc etc. Most utility spells are a snap for the bard - UMD! It runs off of charisma! So while the bard can't be the primary spellcaster, he can make up for it if said spellcaster is gone or down.
The problem with the bard is that people cling so very, very heavily to this "core 4," and it's not there. Let go of the core 4. Embrace ingenuity and creativity. Let go of the rogue and buy a rubber ball, an eleven foot pole, and two chickens.
Embrace ingenuity and creativity. Let go of the rogue and buy a rubber ball, an eleven foot pole, and two chickens.
All of lifes problems can be sovled with a smoke stick and a brick.
Examples
1. Mother-in-law, smoke stick to blind her, brick is to ummm.
2. Tax collector/salesman, smoke stick distract and blind and a brick to...
3. Cops, they bring they own smoke sticks so all you need is a brick to break a window and pretend to be a hostage.
4. Nagging spouse...I think you get the picture.
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First ever character back in the day was an OD&D wizard, but I gotta say my favorites have got to be rangers and rogues. The guile and cunning resonate strongly with me. Don't get me wrong, I like a good toe to toe fight now and then, but nothing satisfies quite like a foe falling into a trap and being ambushed..
Bard forever!*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!Why?
Not having any particular class as your first choice is understandable, but what drives this extreme hatred of the Bard character class?
They are...rather useless, compared to every other class in the core rulebook. As far as buffing goes, cleric blows them out of the water, wizard beats them for spell versatility, rogue beats them in melee damage, Druid does the same thing they do only better.
So when someone yells "I'm playing a Bard!", I roll my eyes and shake my head. Especially when you only have 4 players total.
They really need to up their power level in comparison to the other classes in the APG, because right now they really are only good as a cohort or a tag along NPC than a character class.
The idea that another class would be better at a specific nitch, is a wonderful reason to prefer that class. This I never disputed.
But the actual quote was ""
That is where my confusion arose. Prefence for a more specialized class does not make the "bard" worthless.
Bard was the all-star in my last group. Paladin, Rogue, Fighter and Bard. I was the rogue, a 2 wp fighter. I'd go from hitting 1 in 4 per round to hitting 3 in 4. All thanks to the bard. She really made the party go. Inspire Courage + Good Hope + Haste = win. Once she could cast a spell and sing as a move action, our enemies didn't stand a chance. It sure was nice to start combat with Inspire Courage and Haste.
Fighter was a tripper, paladin was a ... well a paladin. I was a 2wp fighting opportunist. With those buffs, we'd eviscerate anthing in our way. Ah, those were the days...
Paladin and Bard healed. Rogue and Bard handled the skills. Fighter and Bard handled groups of enemies. Bard, Bard, Bard...
Anyways, my favorite class as a player has got to be the rogue.
As a GM, fighter is my go-to class for any enemy. So versatile.
No, the problem isn't bards are good at everything and best at nothing, the problem is that bards are mediocre at everything and good at nothing.
Bards are great at skill use. They might not be quite the best at skills in general, but they're parsecs away from mediocre. They really are the best lore masters (i.e. masters of knowledge skills).
They are also outstanding buffers. When it comes to buffing others, no other class can really compete.
Their fighting skills might just be mediocre, and their magic not as potent as a sorcerer's, but they're not bad at it, either.
It's true that they make more sense the bigger the party is (they're sort of anti-summoners in that regard), but that doesn't mean they're useless.
Far from it. I played bards to great effect, and seen others play them to great effect.
Embrace ingenuity and creativity. Let go of the rogue and buy a rubber ball, an eleven foot pole, and two chickens.All of lifes problems can be sovled with a smoke stick and a brick.
Examples
1. Mother-in-law, smoke stick to blind her, brick is to ummm.
2. Tax collector/salesman, smoke stick distract and blind and a brick to...
3. Cops, they bring they own smoke sticks so all you need is a brick to break a window and pretend to be a hostage.
4. Nagging spouse...I think you get the picture.
So true.
Bard forever!*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!Why?
Not having any particular class as your first choice is understandable, but what drives this extreme hatred of the Bard character class?
They are...rather useless, compared to every other class in the core rulebook. As far as buffing goes, cleric blows them out of the water, wizard beats them for spell versatility, rogue beats them in melee damage, Druid does the same thing they do only better.
So when someone yells "I'm playing a Bard!", I roll my eyes and shake my head. Especially when you only have 4 players total.
They really need to up their power level in comparison to the other classes in the APG, because right now they really are only good as a cohort or a tag along NPC than a character class.
The idea that another class would be better at a specific nitch, is a wonderful reason to prefer that class. This I never disputed.
But the actual quote was ""
That is where my confusion arose. Prefence for a more specialized class does not make the "bard" worthless.
Well that's sarcasm for you, doesn't really come across on the intertubes very well.
Hey, if it wasn't for the Commoner the Bard wouldn't where he is today!
Somebody has to attend the concerts, listen to the tales of adventure, and throw coins in the bottomless hat. (or is it topless hat?)
:P
Now that my deranged humor has had its say, I wonder why so many people are focusing on non-pathfinder classes when the original poster asked about favorite pathfinder classes? My answers would have been very different if I could've answered with Arcana Evolved classes or the Rune Warrior from Book of Experimental Might. Honestly, I'm just being rhetorical.
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Bard forever!*shakes his head*
I'd rather play a Commoner! With all 8s!Once i rolled so poorly (highest was a 13, if i remember) and the DM was a douche and didn't let me reroll so i opted to play a merchant.
Actually turned out to be ok. Set up trade routes, 'hired' the other players to guard my caravan. I was rubbish but had so much gold i just blasted everything with all my magic items. Still...i'd probably prefer a bard (i've never played a bard btw).
I had a player in 2ed that failed to roll a viable by the rules set of stats...that is to say, he did not get anything above an 8...actually 7 was his high stat. They guy had three 3s for crying out loud. He had the most puppy dog eyes as he asked me what he was suppose to do since he couldn't meed the stat req for any classes :P .
In all honestly though I'm not usually a fan of straight-classed characters. I almost always multiclass. Barbarian/Ranger, Barbarian/Druid, Fighter/Wizard, Fighter/Rogue/Assassin, Monk/Psychic Warrior, these are the characters I've played. The only situation which I don't is Wizard, which is probably my favorite of the core PF classes, and even then I'll PrC into Loremaster every time. Ftr/Wiz/EK or Arcane Archer would probably be my favorites in a PF only game. PF core Fighter is probably my #2, then Rogue and Ranger.
Including all WotC 3.5 books I really like both Psion and Psychic Warrior, and Duskblade.
I had a player in 2ed that failed to roll a viable by the rules set of stats...that is to say, he did not get anything above an 8...actually 7 was his high stat. They guy had three 3s for crying out loud. He had the most puppy dog eyes as he asked me what he was suppose to do since he couldn't meed the stat req for any classes :P .
And what did you do?
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I had a player in 2ed that failed to roll a viable by the rules set of stats...that is to say, he did not get anything above an 8...actually 7 was his high stat. They guy had three 3s for crying out loud. He had the most puppy dog eyes as he asked me what he was suppose to do since he couldn't meed the stat req for any classes :P .And what did you do?
Let him re-roll.
As you should.
My current DM uses the philosophy that the PC's should have better stats than the 'heroic' npc's. Which is a total bonus of +6. If your ability mods total up to +6 or lower - reroll. This seems pretty fair to me.
