|Erik Freund RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16|
|James Jacobs Creative Director|
|Sect RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32|
Hello All, I have tried to compile a list of all the different alternate rules, errata, clarifications and expansions posted on these messageboards by many people. (And especially by James Jacobs and Jason Nelson). I hope this overview helps people who are looking for answers & ideas.
Errata and Clarifications
Errata and Clarifications:
Barracks (6 BP):Defense Modifier +2; Unrest –1.
Questions & Answers
Q: What are the rules for wearing more than one 'hat'? For example what if a pc wants to be the High-priest and Councilor? Or Ruler and General etc?
The MAIN reason, though, is that we want to have NPCs in there as fellow leaders. This makes for a more entertaining gameplay experience if not all of the slots are taken up by players, and gives the GM a chance to exert some influence over the kingdom as NPC co-leaders. Also, there are lots of events that involve leaders having problems or scandals or the like, and it's usually better to just say that a scandal involves an NPC than forcing some sort of situation on a player.
And also, by limiting the roles to one character, this forces the players to actually have to make some choices.
Expansion & Hexes
Q: I'm assuming that the players start out by deciding on their starting hex, and then must expand out from that hex at the usual speed and BP costs? Basically, they don't get any 'free' hexes added on, even if they've explored and subdued them, right?
Roads & Rivers
Q: What are the effects of roads & rivers on travel?
Q: Just for clarification, I assume Roads are the same as Roads/Trails in chapter 7 of PFRPG Core and not Highways?
Q: On the Gaining Experience chart for different kingdom accomplishments, are those numbers per PC or to be divided among PCs?
Q: Can the consumption of a kingdom be negative? If a kingdom has many farms and not so many non-farm hexes and cities, it would be possible that 2 times the number of farms is bigger than the size plus the city districts. In this case, would the kingdom actually gain BPs from consumption?
Q: In generating income it says to make an economy check against your command DC and if successful divide the result by 5 and add that amount to your treasury. If I had a +12 and rolled a 13 that would be 25. The DC would be 21. Do I divide 25 by 5 to get 5 BP or the 25 minus the DC of 21 to get 0 BP? I think it is the 5 BP but wanted to check.
Q: What do you do with the Edict Penalty reduction in the case of multiple cities having Cathedrals, Arenas, or Waterfronts? Do you halve each time?
Q: Upkeep Phase Step 2 (Pay Consumption) precedes that month’s Improvement Phase Step 6 (Edicts), so how one can determine the increase of Consumption by Edicts? By previous month’s Edicts? Or should a Ruler declare that month’s Edicts before Improvement Phase?
Q: More important question. It seems that Festivals are measured by numbers per Year. But Consumption and Loyalty are needed by monthly rate. How does it work? For example, does “No Festival per Year” mean “Loyalty -1 at the end of 12 consecutive months with no Festivals”?
Q: Are the unrest increases and reductions from buildings one time effects on the build turn, or are they ongoing?
Q: For the buildings that are required to be "Adjacent" to a house, what counts as Adjacent??
Q: Is the Tenement supposed to act as a house?
Q: Is there a limit on the number of districts you can have in a city?
Q: How often can you attempt to sell a magic item per phase?
Q: How are items that the PC’s want to sell (and thus convert directly to BPs) classified? If they've found a +1 sword while adventuring, is it a minor or medium magic item? It appears on both lists so can they choose or is it automatically the lower (or higher)? I can see circumstances where each of the two options might be better.
Q: The city is created and the magic shop ends up having an item a particular Ruling PC wants but doesn't want to pay for, I mean after all he is the King/Ruling Elite and he and his friends created this Kingdom. So he demands it or demands half price for himself. What are the possible ramifications of this for the kingdom? Is there citywide Unrest? A special Event?
Some alternate rules as found on the messageboards can be found below. (Jason Nelson, and James Jacobs)
Hiring Adventurers: By hiring adventurers, the PCs can effectively purchase one time bonuses to any Economy, Loyalty, or Stability checks made as a result of a kingdom event. A group of low-level adventurers (level 1–2) grants a +2 bonus on the check but costs 4 BP. A group of mid-level adventurers (level 3–5) grants a +5 bonus on the check but costs 8 BP. A group of high-level adventurers (level 6 or higher, but never higher than the PCs’ Average Party Level) grants a +10 bonus on the check but costs 16 BP.
Full Time Rulers:
Presented below are additional buildings and improvements that can be build outside of cities. Please note that constructing any of these improvements takes the place of the "build a farm" action in your kingdom turn.
Please also note that Camps, Farms and Mines are mutually exclusive - you can have a farm OR a mine OR a camp in a hex. None of these improvements represent a single building in a 12-mile hex. It's not just one farm, or just one mine, or just one camp. Building means you have devoted the primary physical and human resources of that hex to the activity of farming (farm), mining (mine) or logging (camp).
Camp: (6 BP) A logging camp can be build in a forest area with a road or river. +1 Economy, +1 Stability. The economy bonus is doubled if the hex contains a resource like rare lumber: +2 Economy, +2 Stability.
Fort: (12 BP). A sturdy structure that serves as a guard post and lookout for danger. +1 Stability; +2 Defense Modifier; Unrest –1. A fort can be build in any hex containing a road or river, even if a camp, farm or mine has already been established. If a city is built in an area with a fort, the fort is treated as a watchtower.
Lock: (8 BP). A lock allows ships to traverse along height differences in a river. A Lock turns three hexes of unnavigable rivers navigable and provides a +2 Economy bonus.
Mine: (6 BP) A mine is used for recovering valuable or less valuables minerals, ores and gems. A mine can be built in hills or mountains if a road or river is present. +1 Economy, +1 Stability. The economy bonus is doubled if the hex contains a resource like gold or silver ore: +2 Economy, +2 Stability.
Rivers: Much like roads, rivers can be used for commerce. For every 4 hexes of navigable rivers your kingdom controls that contain navigable rivers, you gain +1 Economy. (Yes, hexes with a river and a road count for both.)
Terraforming: Instead of building a farm hex, you can convert a forest hex into hills or a swamp into grassland. This takes 6 months and costs 24 BP. You could also plant a forest in a grassland or hills hex for the same cost. You continue to gain the benefits of a camp during terraforming, but at the end of the terraforming it is destroyed.
I have one question:
Where does the lock come from? I couldn't find it on the forums.It also seems pretty cheap.
Thanks for your work, it helps a lot!
I would like to bring in something that worries me.
Several buildings halve the cost of lesser bulidings. So from a pure numerical point it would be wise to build them first.
That streches my sense of fantasy quite a bit as a settlement tends to start with the lesser buildings first.
What do you all think about reducing the cost of the higher building by the amount it would have saved on a lesser buliding if this building is already completed (turning the synergy around)?
Old Gamer wrote:
Before we make any changes of this sort it would be prudent to hear from the developers why they made this design decision. After that, if we disagree, we should change - but none of us are good enough with the system yet to have a good "feel" for it.
Two small problems I see with your solution:
1) Typically, you'd only be building one of the expensive structure, but potentially many of the cheaper structures. Thus the savings are realized repeatedly. If you switch it around, then the savings are only realized once. In the end, you've made the overal city more expensive.
2) Think of it a little bit like building a character: when you're a low-level wizard, you're probably not going to be spending any money on scrolls (that leftover change has to go towards healing potions!). A mid-level wizard will select some choice low level spells that he doesn't want to prep. A high-level wizard carries around a veritable library of every spell 1st through 3rd level, several times over.
You'll note that all the buildings that reduce cost of smaller buildings themselves take up more than one square. Since they take up more than one square, they reduce your available building space in a district faster, and therefore we wanted to give these buildings an additional bonus for building them. Granting discounts to smaller buildings is what we decided on.
Whether or not you want to build them first so as you can save money in the long run, or save money in the short run by not building these much more expensive structures and only building smaller stuff depends on how much BP you have, and whether you personally prefer the short term or the long term solution to saving money.
If you make it so that building lots of smaller buildings reduces the cost of the bigger buildings, you basically remove that element of choice and make it so that the ONLY way someone would ever build is small to large. Which is fine if you're comfortable with penalizing people for wanting to build a big thing first that can serve as an "anchor" of sorts for the smaller buildings, I guess.
The other thing to think about is how long it will take for you to get a return on investment for building one big building instead of a bunch of smaller ones.
A. For 55 BP you can buy:
Academy - +2 Economy, +2 Loyalty, 3 minor, 2 medium
B. For 54 BP you can buy:
Caster's Tower - +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty, 3 minor, 2 medium
C. For 54 BP you can buy:
9 Libraries - +9 Economy, +9 Loyalty (but no magic items)
If you want to spam low-cost buildings you can stack up bigger bonuses than buying larger individual units. You can also start accruing those bonuses faster (in terms of BP cost) and be enjoying immediate return on investment. You can enjoy your kingdom roll bonuses while you're saving up for big stuff later on.
It also allows you to maximize your versatility - by not bankrupting yourself for one type of building, you can afford to pump up EACH of your stats and no totally sacrifice one.
One advantage of starting with bigger buildings is that EVENTUALLY you can turn that cost differential around. True, B and C give you bigger bonuses, but every library for B and C after that point costs twice what it does for A.
It's also more efficient in terms of actions - in the early stages of your kingdom, you can only build one building per round, whether it be cheap or expensive. Building cheaper buildings saves you BP; it doesn't save you actions. A can be built in two turns, B in five, C in nine. Of course, A might bankrupt you on the first turn and you'll be limping along with dumps and graveyards for the next few turns... :)
You also start getting EXTRA CANDY with more expensive buildings. No amount of libraries will give you magic items, or increase the GP limit of your town, or any of the non-kingdom-roll stuff that mostly only comes with bigger buildings. You build your academy (or other magic item) building right away, and you can start pumping out items for your economy. You build up your gp limit and you can buy potions and scrolls and minor magic in your own town and not need to trek up to Restov the next time someone dies and has to get brought back.
So... there are already advantages to pursuing each strategy.
Are the non-city buildings official, or are they home rules?
Jason Nelson wrote:
Which I have been using. The players already invested in one. It hasn't been a problem and in fact, it's been a nice addition both in flavor and mechanics.
Robert Brambley wrote:
Glad you enjoyed!
Darius Silverbolt wrote:
One reason is that the theater gives you taverns at half price. Sure, markets make inns half price, but markets are more expensive then theaters. It depends on what else you build in your city.
This is a great thread, thanks to everyone who's been posting new info on it.
But I have few questions:
First, with locks. They're meant to be used on 'unnavigable' rivers. Now, I only have one of the Kingmaker books ('Rivers Run Red'), so maybe this is elsewhere, but... what is the difference on the map between navigable and unnavigable rivers?
Secondly, has anyone done any ruling on certain buildings that you need to have? Like a Granary to counter increased Consumption in winter (winters might get mighty hungry else), or a barracks or garrison to raise troops?
It seems more realistic that way as well as a way of avoding some of the lunacy seen here on the forums, like that one group that had a city of nothing but brothels and monuments.
Stolen Land Correction and Calendar Issue:
1st: Am I correct that the charter should read 24 miles East and 36 miles West or some of the encounters are outside the charter area.
2nd: The charter was issued on 25th day of Talistril, Umm that I think translates to February. The adventures is only a few hundred miles form the polar North, OK so is the charter incorrect? Any idea what month it is supposed to be? Is it summer in February on this planet in this area?
Jonathan Greschler wrote:
Not sure right now about your first question, but as for the second one, it's definitely winter when that charter is issued. So, two solutions: one, it's ass cold when the party sets out, with snow on the ground and everything, and two, the party spends several months planning and recruiting for the expedition.
Jonathan Greschler wrote:
It's probably from an earlier template of the map where Oleg's is in the middle hex. I guess you'd have to make it "24 miles east and 48 miles west". The intent is "the top half of the map".
Jonathan Greschler wrote:
2nd: The charter was issued on 25th day of Talistril, Umm that I think translates to February. The adventures is only a few hundred miles form the polar North, OK so is the charter incorrect? Any idea what month it is supposed to be? Is it summer in February on this planet in this area? Thoughts?
Nope, it is still winter when things start. Our group had tons of snowy/muddy days of exploration. Try trudging through "knee-high" deep snow when you're a gnome!
As to the location and it's proximity to the north pole, I think that it's more than a few hundred miles. In fact, with the new material being put out ... there is a new map of the world. Despite our original map containing a "white edge" to the north to suggest ice caps ... the big map shows an entire continent to the north of Avistan :)
Jonathan Greschler wrote:
The date is "Calistril". I had a hard time with that capital C too. :)
It is February. Cold and snowy, given how much water is in the area.
I used Madison, Wiscons (USA) as the typical weather for the same location. Ligthly forested area, with a major river system nearby. Seemed about right for weather and location on a world map (distance from the north pole). So far it has been fun to use that location.
This question may have been asked before, but I have not seen it listed.
In the "Rivers Run Red", the Candelmere hex, the Development text reads that the ruined tower can give a city built here a free monolith structure, caster's tower or watch tower.
What is a monolith structure?
Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
Pretty sure they meant monument.
Kinda what I thought too, but was wondering if they also meant Castle.Thanks.
Ken Vreeman wrote:
A monolith structure. I'm not sure on how many build points it would be.
That's funny. Thanks for the laugh.I think this kind of monolith brings major advances to a kingdom.
Great stuff, posting so I can find it again.
Eric Hinkle wrote:
There is a ford on the Thorn River where the water is only 3 feet deep, that may make it unnavigable in that hex.
However, there is really only one river where locks are important (and really justify the Econ bonus). That is the Shrike River. The Shrike is explicitly described as being perfect for a trade route between Brevoy and the River Kingdoms, *except* that it has several falls on the north end, making it unnavigable. Those falls are mrked in Varnhold Vanishing.
Putting locks in that area would mean that an entire new trade route opens up through the Greenbelt, completely bypassing the Hooktongue Slough.
Alrighty, i have a serious question. My DM has apparently not done a lot of research on kingmaker. He has some very peculiar rules and it is making life hard for his players, including me. He hasn't given the players a list of the buildings we can build, what they give for bonuses, how much they cost or if they give the 1/2 off certain smaller buildings. He also doesn't roll for magic items, doesn't add the benefit for having lots of road hexes, ignores half of the special resources, and doesn't add in the +1 BP surplus for making the Stability check. He even cuts and pastes the pictures of the buildings onto the city grid. The players are getting fed up and frankly, are very bored with city building since we feel we are shooting in the dark in a loosing battle.
What i am looking for is what other DM's have done with these issues. Is there a precedent? Maybe a forum i can send him to so he doesn't feel like he is "spoiling" the adventure by turning over some things to the players. Since i am the most skilled of our players, a lot of the leadership of the game has been turned over to me. The other players spend 3/4 of the game with their forehead on the table, almost asleep.
Hmm, there isn't a wrong way or a right way to run Kingmaker except ONE major rule -- If your group is falling as sleep or getting frustrated your GM is failing epically. The building facet of Kingmaker should be fun if not run it in the background, even though the gm seems to want to make it especially difficult for you.
what cumulataive effect? halving the cost of their associated buildings?
The cumulative effect meaning the bonuses to Loyalty, Economy, and Stability.
In Part 1, p 57 under Movement in the Stolen Lands it says:
"Each hex on the map ... is 12 miles across (between opposite corners) and covers just under 150 square miles of area."
This seems like a mistake - if the hex is 12 miles from corner to corner, that would only be 93.5 square miles. If the hex is 12 miles across from face to face, it would be about 124.7 square miles. Was there ever any official errata about this? (I looked but didn't find any - I found this forum topic instead! :) Or is my math wrong?
Ref: area of a hex: if d is from corner to corner: d * d * 3 * sqrt(3) / 8
I'm trying to adapt the exploration rules to an old homebrew map with different hex sizes so I was going to use the area to scale the time costs.