Do area of effect spells go through walls or ceilings?
If Player A is on the 1st floor of a 2-story house, and he does not have line of sight of Player B who is on the 2nd floor, but Player B is technically within range of Player A's Prayer (assuming that spell radii are spherical and not circular), does the Prayer spell affect Player B?
This has come up two games in a row for our group. We decided to allow the spell to go through ceilings, especially since it was Prayer (lol?), but I want to know if there are any rules that address this before it happens again.
Creative Director
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Do area of effect spells go through walls or ceilings?
If Player A is on the 1st floor of a 2-story house, and he does not have line of sight of Player B who is on the 2nd floor, but Player B is technically within range of Player A's Prayer (assuming that spell radii are spherical and not circular), does the Prayer spell affect Player B?
This has come up two games in a row for our group. We decided to allow the spell to go through ceilings, especially since it was Prayer (lol?), but I want to know if there are any rules that address this before it happens again.
Normally, no. Spell effects are blocked by solid barriers. Although some spell effects get around this in various ways (earthquake is a good example).
If a wizard is trying to cast a spell through a glass window (The point of origin of the spell on the other side of the window), does he have line of effect to that spot or is that blocked as well?
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Creative Director
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If a wizard is trying to cast a spell through a glass window (The point of origin of the spell on the other side of the window), does he have line of effect to that spot or is that blocked as well?
Yup; a glass window blocks line of effect. It doesn't block line of sight though, so if a spell ONLY requires line of sight, a spellcaster can cast spells through a window.
Don't forget the 1 foot x 1 foot hole thing. That's all you need to get a spell through an otherwise solid wall.
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A more interesting question is whether the aura from a magic item can be seen through the cracks in a door (for instance) using detect magic.
Does the aura radiate (or in game terms, emanate) from the magic item so the glow could be seen around a corner, or is line of sight required to the magic item itself?
The RAW are silent on this AFAIK.
If a wizard is trying to cast a spell through a glass window (The point of origin of the spell on the other side of the window), does he have line of effect to that spot or is that blocked as well?Yup; a glass window blocks line of effect. It doesn't block line of sight though, so if a spell ONLY requires line of sight, a spellcaster can cast spells through a window.
He could however, centre the spell on the window itself. If it deals damage to the window sufficient to break it then it would continue on.
A more interesting question is whether the aura from a magic item can be seen through the cracks in a door (for instance) using detect magic.
Does the aura radiate (or in game terms, emanate) from the magic item so the glow could be seen around a corner, or is line of sight required to the magic item itself?
The RAW are silent on this AFAIK.
Detect magic works through material specifically, the spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it. (Core p.268)
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Creative Director
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Detect magic works through material specifically, the spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it. (Core p.268)A more interesting question is whether the aura from a magic item can be seen through the cracks in a door (for instance) using detect magic.
Does the aura radiate (or in game terms, emanate) from the magic item so the glow could be seen around a corner, or is line of sight required to the magic item itself?
The RAW are silent on this AFAIK.
Yup; the rules are far from silent here. They're pretty chatty!
Good to know, thanks for the swift replies. I used line of effect as a keyword from your post James and found the following.
"Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight."
A more interesting question is whether the aura from a magic item can be seen through the cracks in a door (for instance) using detect magic.
Does the aura radiate (or in game terms, emanate) from the magic item so the glow could be seen around a corner, or is line of sight required to the magic item itself?
The RAW are silent on this AFAIK.
"A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst's area defines how far from the point of origin the spell's effect extends.
An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres."
Emanations do not go around corners, but as Tanis said, the Detect spell might go through the object granting total cover, provided it is thin enough. So even though you can't see an aura behind a thin wall, you could sense it with a Detect spell.
He could however, centre the spell on the window itself. If it deals damage to the window sufficient to break it then it would continue on.If a wizard is trying to cast a spell through a glass window (The point of origin of the spell on the other side of the window), does he have line of effect to that spot or is that blocked as well?Yup; a glass window blocks line of effect. It doesn't block line of sight though, so if a spell ONLY requires line of sight, a spellcaster can cast spells through a window.
Yup, that's why I have always preferred Lightning Bolt over fireball: One of these breaks objects. The other does not. Otherwise we get people pulling out 5'x5' wooden blocks from gods know where for total cover.
Also, Mr. Jacobs, by "a spell ONLY requir(ing) line of sight", what exactly do you mean? Sorry if this already got dealt with, I'm just not sure.
Yup, that's why I have always preferred Lightning Bolt over fireball: One of these breaks objects. The other does not. Otherwise we get people pulling out 5'x5' wooden blocks from gods know where for total cover.
Also, Mr. Jacobs, by "a spell ONLY requir(ing) line of sight", what exactly do you mean? Sorry if this already got dealt with, I'm just not sure.
Sorry, i'm not following, are you saying that a fireball wouldn't bypass the hardness and hitpoints of a plank of wood?
So how would a fireball (or any area of effect spell) work if it went off near a wall with holes? If the full area of effect was not achieved on the side of the wall the fireball was thrown, would it push through the hole (or holes) and fill the remaining area of effect on the other side of the wall?
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The bit about emanations could prove both handy and annoying, depending on what you're doing, with Channeling effects.
On the one hand, you can duck out of the room to avoid negative energy channeling. On the other hand, a door slamming shut before the cleric enter the room with prevent him from healing you with positive energy channeling, even if you are within 10 ft. of him.
Line of effect blocking emanations also prevents an evil cleric from wandering up to the outer wall of a crowded inn, from the alley outside, and using 5d6 Channel Energy blasts to just flat out murder everyone within 30 ft., without anyone inside the adjacent building(s) having any idea where their sudden painful death is coming from!
I have this vision in my head of a negative energy channeling cleric 'holding the line' with his powers, killing everything within 30 ft. of him, while his companions huddle behind a door, delaying their action until after his action to open the door quickly, top him off with a CLW wand or whatever, and then slam the door again before he channels on the next round.
Sorry, i'm not following, are you saying that a fireball wouldn't bypass the hardness and hitpoints of a plank of wood?Yup, that's why I have always preferred Lightning Bolt over fireball: One of these breaks objects. The other does not. Otherwise we get people pulling out 5'x5' wooden blocks from gods know where for total cover.
Also, Mr. Jacobs, by "a spell ONLY requir(ing) line of sight", what exactly do you mean? Sorry if this already got dealt with, I'm just not sure.
The fireball might destroy that plank of wood if you place the fireball in front of it. However, you cannot center the fireball on the other side of that plank of wood. The line of effect itself causes no damage.
Since lightning bolt originates from the casters square, all squares in the line effected take damage, including that wooden block between you and the guy you want to smoke. However, I wouldn't count on a lightning bolt taking out a 5'x5' wooden block (which is going to have a fair number of HP even once you get past the hardness).
Note that project image can often allow you to circumvent barriers by allowing you to "corner" (You must have line of effect to the projected image, and the projected image must have line of effect to the spell effect, but you do not need direct line of effect to the spell effect - so spells cast around corners abound!!!)
Sorry, i'm not following, are you saying that a fireball wouldn't bypass the hardness and hitpoints of a plank of wood?Yup, that's why I have always preferred Lightning Bolt over fireball: One of these breaks objects. The other does not. Otherwise we get people pulling out 5'x5' wooden blocks from gods know where for total cover.
Also, Mr. Jacobs, by "a spell ONLY requir(ing) line of sight", what exactly do you mean? Sorry if this already got dealt with, I'm just not sure.
A fireball would explode on impact with the plank of wood as per the description of the spell. It's like a fiery water balloon of death, the fire will hurt a lot but it'll explode pre-maturely if it hits anything prior to it's destination.
Sorry, i'm not following, are you saying that a fireball wouldn't bypass the hardness and hitpoints of a plank of wood?Yup, that's why I have always preferred Lightning Bolt over fireball: One of these breaks objects. The other does not. Otherwise we get people pulling out 5'x5' wooden blocks from gods know where for total cover.
Also, Mr. Jacobs, by "a spell ONLY requir(ing) line of sight", what exactly do you mean? Sorry if this already got dealt with, I'm just not sure.
The fireball might destroy that plank of wood if you place the fireball in front of it. However, you cannot center the fireball on the other side of that plank of wood. The line of effect itself causes no damage.
Since lightning bolt originates from the casters square, all squares in the line effected take damage, including that wooden block between you and the guy you want to smoke. However, I wouldn't count on a lightning bolt taking out a 5'x5' wooden block (which is going to have a fair number of HP even once you get past the hardness).
Note that project image can often allow you to circumvent barriers by allowing you to "corner" (You must have line of effect to the projected image, and the projected image must have line of effect to the spell effect, but you do not need direct line of effect to the spell effect - so spells cast around corners abound!!!)
This is misleading. Fireball specifically states:
If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
That is the exact same text that lightning bolt has.
Since lightning bolt originates from the casters square, all squares in the line effected take damage, including that wooden block between you and the guy you want to smoke. However, I wouldn't count on a lightning bolt taking out a 5'x5' wooden block (which is going to have a fair number of HP even once you get past the hardness).
What if it's ironwood? Shouldn't the lightning just conduct right through it and zap the guy on the other side?
;)
Crud, I just thought of something. I have special tree in my novel called a silverwood tree - I bet you can't hide under those in an electrical storm...
+1 Zurai. That and it's a burst, so it also goes around the plank.
+1 Zurai. That and it's a burst, so it also goes around the plank.
Not true:
"A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst's area defines how far from the point of origin the spell's effect extends."
You are thinking of spreads:
"A spread spell extends out like a burst but can turn corners. You select the point of origin, and the spell spreads out a given distance in all directions. Figure the area the spell effect fills by taking into account any turns the spell effect takes."
However if the spell burst through (in the case of fireballs and such) then it won't really matter.
M'bad, fireball is a spread is what i meant.
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Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear in my earlier post. :(
Detect magic allows the spellcaster to see the aura of the item, leading to a chance to identify the school of magic with a Know(Arc) check. Apparently the aura is a visible effect -- at least to the spellcaster.
Does this aura create a "glow" that can be seen around a corner? For example, a broom of flying is leaning up against a wall near a 90-deg corner. Around the corner is the spellcaster who does not have line of sight to the broom due to the solid wall.
The spellcaster casts detect magic. Does the aura from the broom project out far enough to be seen around the corner? Is the aura a "light source" type of effect? After all, a light source that the spellcaster doesn't have line of sight to would still project light out past the corner, allowing the spellcaster to see it.
Regarding the "cracks in the door", my question was about minute cracks in a wooden door: would the item's aura be visible? Or maybe a keyhole is a better example. Picture a magic item on one side of the door and the spellcaster on the other. The spellcaster uses detect magic -- does the aura of the magic item "shine through" the keyhole so that the spellcaster can tell the magi item is there?
These questions are important when a rogue with detect magic goes sneaking through an area, as a bad guy waiting around a corner might show up on a detect magic if the aura gives of "light" of a sort...
I always maintain that barriers are targets, too - if you can break through the barrier (mind damaging object rules) with your spell effect, you get whatever's behind.
(I know the Tien won't like it with their paper walls, but that's not my problem)
M'bad, fireball is a spread is what i meant.
Hm.... *goes and makes himself a peanut butter and fireball sandwich*
But what about my question?
So how would a fireball (or any area of effect spell) work if it went off near a wall with holes? If the full area of effect was not achieved on the side of the wall the fireball was detonated, would it push through the hole (or holes) and fill the remaining area of effect on the other side of the wall?
Let's say the wall is steel, so it won't be taken down with one fireball. And the wall is only 6 inches thick. My question is, when the fireball hits the wall, and therefore detonates, 20' of fire will expand on this side of the wall, as the spell area of effect is a 20' radius. But will the fireball 'push' through the holes, expand out and fill the entire 20' radius on the other side of the wall? Or will it just push through the holes, remaining at the diameter of the actual holes, and go 20' straight back?
I guess what I am trying to clarify, is if the fireball did my second option (did not expand out) would a reflex save be required if there were people on the other side of the wall?
Hope that was clear enough.
It would depend on the size of the holes. To quote the rules:
An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell's line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell's line of effect.
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear in my earlier post. :(
Detect magic allows the spellcaster to see the aura of the item, leading to a chance to identify the school of magic with a Know(Arc) check. Apparently the aura is a visible effect -- at least to the spellcaster.
Does this aura create a "glow" that can be seen around a corner? For example, a broom of flying is leaning up against a wall near a 90-deg corner. Around the corner is the spellcaster who does not have line of sight to the broom due to the solid wall.
The spellcaster casts detect magic. Does the aura from the broom project out far enough to be seen around the corner? Is the aura a "light source" type of effect? After all, a light source that the spellcaster doesn't have line of sight to would still project light out past the corner, allowing the spellcaster to see it.
Regarding the "cracks in the door", my question was about minute cracks in a wooden door: would the item's aura be visible? Or maybe a keyhole is a better example. Picture a magic item on one side of the door and the spellcaster on the other. The spellcaster uses detect magic -- does the aura of the magic item "shine through" the keyhole so that the spellcaster can tell the magi item is there?
These questions are important when a rogue with detect magic goes sneaking through an area, as a bad guy waiting around a corner might show up on a detect magic if the aura gives of "light" of a sort...
It is a divination spell that detects stuff, I don't think it relies on any visible feedback, the feedback is mental imo.
Note that 2 rounds of concentration only gives you a number, not locations, you can't see the auras, but you still know how many are there.However with 3 rounds of concentration, you get the strength and location of the magic aura/item/effect. And only if you have LOS (which is blocked by solid non-translucent barriers) to the items or creatures (not the aura) you can get adittional information.
Furthermore this spell detects auras, there are spells like "arcane sigth" or "analyze dweomer" that allow you to see the auras (auras are something inherent to magic stuff, not a magic effect unless it comes from an area spell or ability).
Afaik there is nothing in the core rulebook suggesting that creatures and items auras spread out of them, except magic areas.
About the door, the spell can penetrate most doors, so you can locate items even if you haven't LOS.
"[..]If the items
or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make
Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to [...]"
"The spell can penetrate
barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of
lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it."
It would depend on the size of the holes. To quote the rules:
An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell's line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell's line of effect.
Interesting. Thank you.
So it sounds like if you had people shooting at you through arrow slit holes, you would not be able to fireball them as those are usually well under one foot square.
But what about my question?
Let's say the wall is steel, so it won't be taken down with one fireball. And the wall is only 6 inches thick. My question is, when the fireball hits the wall, and therefore detonates, 20' of fire will expand on this side of the wall, as the spell area of effect is a 20' radius. But will the fireball 'push' through the holes, expand out and fill the entire 20' radius on the other side of the wall? Or will it just push through the holes, remaining at the diameter of the actual holes, and go 20' straight back?
I guess what I am trying to clarify, is if the fireball did my second option (did not expand out) would a reflex save be required if there were people on the other side of the wall?
Hope that was clear enough.
No, it won't spread into the fortress IF the holes give total concealment (like arrow slits), fireball is a spread Area.
Page 214 of the core rulebok:
"A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area,
including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect
creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other
words, its effects don’t extend around corners)."
"A spread spell extends out like a burst but can turn
corners."
Furthermore, as pointed by another poster, arrow slits usually block line of effect so you can not detonate the fireball inside the fortress. But wider windows or holes won't block the spell.
(edited)
But what about my question?
Let's say the wall is steel, so it won't be taken down with one fireball. And the wall is only 6 inches thick. My question is, when the fireball hits the wall, and therefore detonates, 20' of fire will expand on this side of the wall, as the spell area of effect is a 20' radius. But will the fireball 'push' through the holes, expand out and fill the entire 20' radius on the other side of the wall? Or will it just push through the holes, remaining at the diameter of the actual holes, and go 20' straight back?
I guess what I am trying to clarify, is if the fireball did my second option (did not expand out) would a reflex save be required if there were people on the other side of the wall?
Hope that was clear enough.
No, it won't spread into the fortress IF the holes give total concealment (like arrow slits), fireball is a spread Area.
Page 214 of the core rulebok:
"A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area,
including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect
creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other
words, its effects don’t extend around corners)."
"A spread spell extends out like a burst but can turn
corners."
Right, understood. But the question is, what is the limits that considers holes to give total concealment. But Virgil had answered the question in any hole that is 1' square or greater.
Furthermore, as pointed by another poster, arrow slits usually block line of effect so you can detonate the fireball inside the fortress. But wider windows or holes won't block the spell.
So when you are saying you can 'detonate the fireball inside of the fortress' I am assuming you are meaning from outside, and you are able to look inside with LOS? And on top of that, the fireball 'bead' will travel through the arrow slit?
But my question was really focusing on the fireball detonating outside, next to the wall, and wondering how much would be affected on the other side of the wall (with holes). And that was answered. Thanks.
But the question is, what is the limits that considers holes to give total concealment. But Virgil had answered the question in any hole that is 1' square or greater.
Uhmm, let me clarify so you can use the rules for any window/hole/etc. Furthermore I was wrong on something.
Concealment is different from Cover, in the case of the wall with holes we are dealing with cover.
Total Cover is defined in page 196, No line of effect = total cover. You can't attack, by no means, a creature with total cover (usually total cover is a solid wall).
Arrow slits do not provide Total Cover, the book suggest Improved Cover for arrowslits, it is regular cover with many extra bonuses for reflex saves, AC.. And gives "Improved Evasion" to the guy behing the arrow slit. It allows an archer, i.e. to attack someone behind an arrow slit. There's no proposed size for arrow slits afaik.
So what's up with spells?
1. If you want to put the center of the fireball (or cast most spells) on the other side of the wall you need a line of effect. The rules state that any hole smaller than 1 square feet blocks lines of effect, even if you have LOS. Arrowslits usually are that small. Usually you can't even cast (iirc) a spell if you don't have line of effect. However the fireball spell has special rules (read the spell).
2. If you cast the fireball outside the wall but near the arrowslit then the area would get into the other side of the wall because arrowslits don't provide total cover (i was wrong on that). It would affect the guy in the arrowslit and anyone in the area that spreads into the other side of the wall (burst spells don't turn corners, but fireballs are a spread effect and DO turn corners). However everyone on the other side of the wall get the benefits of arrow slit's "Improved Cover" (up to +8 AC and +4 Reflex, and Improved Evasion). I'm asumming that the wall isn't destroyed by the fireball damage (the fireball spell has special rules, if the damage of the fireball breaks the wall it can spread to the other side).
Note that holes of different sizes would provide different cover bonuses (minimum +2 AC and +2 Reflex).
Sorry to threadjack but I really must know:
Is there a spell that requires line of sight but NOT line of effect?
Also thanks to Zurai for pointing out my bungle. I still like lightning bolt because it's good for sniping into melee, but fireball may still go into my spellbook now.
And to clarify you CAN attack a target with total cover, it just can't involve an attack roll to hit him. Alchemists could come in handy for this, as well as your average fireball packing mage.
Is there a spell that requires line of sight but NOT line of effect?
Call lightning. Flame Strike. Any spell which has an origin that isn't the caster, really.
Is there a spell that requires line of sight but NOT line of effect?
Some divination/teleportation spells, i.e.
About attack spells (edit: that arent areas. But you still need LOF to the center of an area)...
I'm not sure about magic missile.
Fireball has special rules about arrowslits and similar stuff.
Looks like rays (Effect: Ray) that require ranged touch attacks still need line of effect.
Acid Arrow isn't a Ray, the effect is the creation of a magic object that you throw at your enemy (then you do a ranged touch attack), and the spell has no target line. Maybe that spell wouldn't require line of effect (but a solid wall without holes still blocks the arrow).
Is there a spell that requires line of sight but NOT line of effect?Call lightning. Flame Strike. Any spell which has an origin that isn't the caster, really.
Alright, I see what he meant now. Thanks!
Is there a spell that requires line of sight but NOT line of effect?Call lightning. Flame Strike. Any spell which has an origin that isn't the caster, really.
This subject (of spells and line of effect) came up in my game the other day, and prompted me to search the forums here. I must admit to some degree of confusion still, regarding which spells are intended to require line of effect and which ones are not.
It seems clear to me that certain spells require line of effect (Fireball being an obvious example, as well as any Ray or Ranged touch spell, and Magic Missile). It seems clear to me that there must exist some spells that do not require line of effect between the caster and the spell's effect, since spells of this sort are indicated:
... so if a spell ONLY requires line of sight, a spellcaster can cast spells through a window.
My question remains: How can I tell if a spell is intended to require line of effect, or just line of sight?
Both of the spells given as examples by Zurai are Evocation spells that require the targeting of an area (with a designated center of effect), much as Fireball does; Darchias mentioned summoning (such as Summon Monster) as being able to produce a summoned creature within visual range, all of these examples make sense to me.
It seems like the difference that shows a demarcation is that spells like rays, magic missile, and fireball are propagating an effect over a distance whereas spells like flame strike, call lightning, and most summoning magic produce an effect on the spot. While it is a fairly easy thing to determine if certain spells like these produce a localized effect or propagate an effect across a distance, other spells are not as clear to me, such as Charm Person, or Blindness/Deafness. Both of these latter spells seem to produce effects on the spot, and using the guideline that seems to apply should therefore not require line of effect, however, I'm not certain that this was the intent of these spells... I'd appreciate thoughts.
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What about abilities that function as the spell? Paladin's "Detect Evil" for instance? Scenario: Ice maze, minotaur on opposite side of wall of ice, Detect Evil functions as a cone, but nothing is mentioned about blocking or preventing the full effect from taking place...and walls were only like 8 feet tall, so not floor to ceiling; there was space at the top to peer over.
What about abilities that function as the spell? Paladin's "Detect Evil" for instance? Scenario: Ice maze, minotaur on opposite side of wall of ice, Detect Evil functions as a cone, but nothing is mentioned about blocking or preventing the full effect from taking place...and walls were only like 8 feet tall, so not floor to ceiling; there was space at the top to peer over.
From the spell:
"The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it."|
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What about abilities that function as the spell? Paladin's "Detect Evil" for instance? Scenario: Ice maze, minotaur on opposite side of wall of ice, Detect Evil functions as a cone, but nothing is mentioned about blocking or preventing the full effect from taking place...and walls were only like 8 feet tall, so not floor to ceiling; there was space at the top to peer over.From the spell:
"The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it."
Right, somehow I am a tard and missed that. My question then...how would you all treat ice, and if its like 3 feet of wood, is that 3 continual feet, or 3 feet in total so that a wall of wood 6 inches thick, followed by 5 more 6 inch thick walls (with intervening space) would stop it?
I would total it up. If you had six inches of wood then 10 feet then an inch of steel I would give them up to the steel. If you had 10 foot rooms separated by 6 inch walls of wood I would let it go until they hit a total of 3 feet of wood.
I would probably treat the ice like wood, but that's a DM area, as the rules don't specifically say.
RE: Detect Evil: most abjurations have clearly delineated effects and parameters that define how they work, and are not a particular matter of concern to me as far as the question I posed goes, that question being "How can I tell if a spell requires Line of Effect to produce the intended result."
I would actually say that summoning a monster with summon monster would still require line of effect for the following reason.
Summon monster I has the following line "Effect one summoned creature" and from the line of effect section "You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect." So I must conclude that one must have line of effect to the space in to which one wishes to create the effect of the summoned creature.
This strikes to the heart of my question, as if this logic holds, then clearly a spellcaster should need Line of Effect to the Call Lightning and Flame Strike effects as well when the nature of Call Lightning (especially) seems to indicate that the caster ought to be able to (for example) call lightning down on her foes from behind a barrier.
Further, the remark made by James Jacobs about spells that "ONLY require line of sight" seems to indicate that there are some spells that require Line of Sight but do not require Line of Effect (which contradicts the Line of Effect block). Detect Magic (/Evil/etc) is not a satisfactory example of such a spell inasmuch as the description clearly indicates that the basic effects of the spell do not require line of effect OR line of sight under certain indicated circumstances. Therefore there ought to be a group (however small) of spells that don't require Line of Effect to produce their effects, and I was hoping for insight on how to identify these spells as a general class.
This does bring up a further issue in my mind, to wit: If I can cast Magic Missile, and am fully aware of a creature around a corner (perhaps by virtue of seeing it via an angled mirror), unless I step around the corner myself, a strict interpretation of the Line of Effect block indicates that I cannot cast Magic Missile at the creature around the corner. Similarly, I cannot cast Magic Missile at the 1st level Commoner cowering behind his wholly mundane Tower Shield, since the Tower Shield grants full cover, by which Magic Missile is rendered ineffective.
Both of these scenarios seem absurd to me, and highlight some of the issues I have with Line of Effect. (In granting full cover, does a Tower Shield negate Line of Effect? If so, does that mean that the only thing my Fighter with a will save of +2 needs to defend against Charms and Compulsions is a Tower Shield and a good initiative modifier? If a telepathic creature that has much sharper Mindsight than standard can sense and pinpoint a potential target via telepathy alone, can the telepath Charm the target even if there happens to be a wall in between them?) (My answers that are based purely on flavor as opposed to The Rules are No, N/A, and Yes, but the rules seem to indicate answers of Yes, Yes, and No, and the diametric opposition of my answers and the answers implied by the rules bothers me.)
What about telepathy?
Wow!! An 8 year old dead thread brought back to life...