Kingdom Building


Kingmaker

951 to 1,000 of 1,104 << first < prev | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | next > last >>
Jon Brazer Enterprises

Oh I can definitely see an argument for the maintenance plan being less than the upfront equipping cost. It is just a level of abstraction thing.

Remember, there's practice costs involved like targets, clearing fields, cost of having a fletcher bring all his equipment/supplies with him in the field. I do agree that this system does not model reality well. But last night in my home game (not in mass combat), I had barbarians climb up a tower, draw axes while climbing as part of their movement and attack. By the rules, that's allowed. The game's rule do not do a good job of emulating reality IMO.

From a cost benefit analysis, a that 2gp to equip an army with ranged weapons could wipe out or severely hurt the baran's militia with no way to counterattack before the start of melee. Doing the "more of cheap" units instead of the "less of expensive" units is not always a good thing. A mix of both is always best offensively. Its more balanced.

But yea, if your players don't want a continual payment. I'd still recommend multiplying the upgrade cost by 4.

Liberty's Edge

My problem is that from a cursory read (we are too early into Kingmaker for really using the army rules) the maintenance cost of a upgrade is the same for a fine or gargantuan army.

You give them bows? You pay 2 extra BP every week regardless of the army size.

Silver Crusade

Bobson wrote:
Better than having events which specifically correspond to each position, you should look into having some specific subsystem for each position. For instance, I currently have a treaty system (partially stolen from this thread and modified by sirmattdusty referenced here) for the Grand Diplomat, expanded rules for a military council (like the US Joint Chiefs of Staff) for the General (also from matt), a wilderness patrol system for the Warden (which originally was from matt, but is being significiantly revised), and espionage for the Spymaster. That's only four positions covered so far, but you can theoretcially devise similar expansions for each one. Additionally, you could move all city building onto the Ruler, Councilor or Treasurer as their subsystem, or move all actual die rolling (and possibly modifer tracking) onto the Ruler.

You should let me know how that worked out for you. I haven't really had time lately to play around with those much in the past couple of months since my group is on a temporary hiatus. The Magister in my group developed her own mage council too with each mage representing a school of magic. But no kind of subsystem to actually do anything with them other than rp, and oh the rp there has been. She is very attached to a few of them and really don't like a few others. The councilor is always the one who decides what, when, and where to build non-defensive, non-government buildings. I gave him the choice between 5 different NPC advisors to help him 'decide' what to build next, each one with their own agenda. He chose the 'mafia-boss' advisor....oh the black markets and 'guilds' that have been built since then. I think he picked him because the mob boss offered him a 10% kickback on every building built that he recommended (roughly 200 - 500 gp each time). We don't have a PC Marshal or Treasurer though. The Marshal I could've come up with something, but the Treasurer is a real head scratcher other than keeping track of all the BP expenitures.


Diego Rossi wrote:

My problem is that from a cursory read (we are too early into Kingmaker for really using the army rules) the maintenance cost of a upgrade is the same for a fine or gargantuan army.

You give them bows? You pay 2 extra BP every week regardless of the army size.

I ran into this problem, to which the solution elsewhere on the forums is to multiply the cost by a factor based on the size of the unit. Unfortunately, that starts resulting in fractional BP and related oddnesses. It's still better, though.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but assume that the number of soldiers is a percentage cost - so 50 soldiers (Small army) is 50% of the default cost, and 200 soldiers (Large army) is 200% of the default cost.


sirmattdusty wrote:
You should let me know how that worked out for you. I haven't really had time lately to play around with those much in the past couple of months since my group is on a temporary hiatus. The Magister in my group developed her own mage council too with each mage representing a school of magic. But no kind of subsystem to actually do anything with them other than rp, and oh the rp there has been. She is very attached to a few of them and really don't like a few others. The councilor is always the one who decides what, when, and where to build non-defensive, non-government buildings. I gave him the choice between 5 different NPC advisors to help him 'decide' what to build next, each one with their own agenda. He chose the 'mafia-boss' advisor....oh the black markets and 'guilds' that have been built since then. I think he picked him because the mob boss offered him a 10% kickback on every building built that he recommended (roughly 200 - 500 gp each time). We don't have a PC Marshal or Treasurer though. The Marshal I could've come up with something, but the Treasurer is a real head scratcher other than keeping track of all the BP expenitures.

So far, we've only had one session of kingdom building since I got the rules from you, and I hadn't finished reading them over yet. Since then, we've missed a session, then gone to Varnhold (three sessions so far, with at least another half). We'll see whether they go back to regroup and consider what happened to the city, or (try to) head straight for the Nomen. So we haven't actually tried out any of it.

They've gotten everything except the warden mechanics and the army rules at this point (and the other kingdom's stats, which they'll have to spy out). They've really liked what they've seen, although they worry about there being too many buildings now. So signs are good that it'll work out well.

I'll let you know!


So I'm about to run our first mass combat, and I'm suddenly wondering what the heck Morale does. Does it have ANY combat effect, or is it just used to tell if armies disband or not? I can't find any direct combat effects that morale has in the BotRN.


Werebat wrote:
So I'm about to run our first mass combat, and I'm suddenly wondering what the heck Morale does. Does it have ANY combat effect, or is it just used to tell if armies disband or not? I can't find any direct combat effects that morale has in the BotRN.

It's used for making a drastic shift in strategy. On the other hand, I find strategy rather pointless. Your best bet seems to be to always be in the stance that opposes your opponent's stance - on the defensive end if you're weaker and on the offensive end if you're stronger.


I've been thinking about army cost and resources.

I like the idea that different resources require different buildings (ranged requires a fletcher, flying mounts require an aviary, etc.)

I noticed that the Mounts resource is paid for differently than the others. It just raises the CR of the unit, which in turn raises all of its costs (it also requires a special building).

Presumably most armies with special abilities like non-corporeality are paid for in the same manner -- creatures with a breath weapon, for example, should have a higher CR because of it, which affects their maintenance cost. This is not the case for caster units, but they have different size rules that might (?) cause this to even out.

What if all resources were paid for in the same manner? What if outfitting an army with the ranged resource required a fletcher and raised the armies' CR instead of costing BP every week? This would lower the effective cost of outfitting a lower CR (probably smaller) army with bows, and raise the cost for outfitting a higher CR (probably larger) army.

It would also avoid the problem of some armies being under-CRed due to their having been funded by a wealthy kingdom that gives them a ton of resources.

I don't know, I'm just considering the idea. The only problem I see right away is the fact that these resources wouldn't have an initial cost -- free longbows! But then again, unless your armies are punching the enemy with their fists, they've already gotten free swords, so...


As the rules are currently written, the sweetest deal you can get with resources is to build an aviary and make armies with the mounted resource. If you play your cards right you can avoid any maintenance cost whatsoever and gain +2 to both OM and DV as well as a free Mobility Advantage (Flying).

Why does Mounted give a +2 to OM and DV? Why not just raise the CR of the army to account for the mount/rider combo and leave it at that?

I can see the problem with just raising the CR for a unit with magic weapons and armor -- realistically this would make a low CR unit ripe for looting ("100 +1 swords?!? LOOTFEST!!!"). OTOH I can see the same effect being granted by handing out oils of enchantment to each individual in a unit.

I'm trying to think of a way to price units based more on a pure CR perspective. What does the typical unit gain for a +1 to CR and attendant costs? +1 to OM and DV, and some hit points. In essence an army is giving up +1 OM/DV and some hit points for every +1 to CR an army is given due to resources (not to mention required buildings). It has to be worth it or smart rulers won't bother.

With that in mind, I'm thinking:

* Fortification Building (+2 to DV, conditional): Maybe +.5 CR
* Improved Weapons (+1 or +2 to OM): +.5 or maybe +1 CR
* Improved Armor (+1 or +2 to AV): +.5 or maybe +1 CR
* Healing Potions (2/battle heal 2XCR): +.5 CR sounds right
* Mounts (+2 to OM and DV, possible flight): +1.5 CR sounds right, +2 with flight
* Poison (+1d6 damage in round after hit): +1 CR
* Ranged (One or more extra attacks per battle): +1 CR sounds right
* Shields (+2 to DV, conditional): Maybe +.5 CR
* Ships (Complicated): Probably +1 to CR but it's really situational
* Seige Engines (+2 OM and ability to damage fortifications): +1 CR

I seriously think just dropping the +2 OM/DV bonus for mounts and increasing base army CR to equal mount/rider combo makes the most sense for that resource.

Something like this forces a ruler to think, "I'll want archers but if I outfit a unit with ranged weapons their CR will go up, but they won't gain any OM, AV, or hit points -- will it be worth it, counting the fletcher I'll need to build where I want to train them?"

What do you all think?


I just want to follow through a bit with what I'm saying.

Let's say I want to raise a medium unit of halfling dog riders armed with ranged weapons.

RAW I'd decide what class and level I want the halflings to be -- let's say 2nd level rangers. That makes them CR 1, and the riding dogs are CR 1.

It takes 2 weeks to train a unit of 2nd level rangers, plus another week per two resources the army possesses. That means it takes 3 weeks to train this unit (2 class levels plus 2 resources -- mounts and ranged weapons)

When the unit it done it is CR 3 (combining CR 1 ranger and CR 1 dog). In addition to this it gains +2 to OM and DV (for a total of +5/15) and has the ranged resource. It will have a consumption of 3 (3/2=1.5 (round down to 1) base +2 for ranged)

For that same 3 BP per week, a lord could maintain a unit of 9th level warriors with CR 7 (2 more OM and DV than the mounted halflings -- +7/+17 -- and considerably more hit points). Sure, they're slower and lack ranged ability, but it still seems like a no-brainer.

I'd propose just adjusting overall CR, so CR 3 (halfling+dog), +1 for ranged weapons for a total CR of 4. The unit's OM, DV, and hit points are as per a CR 3 unit. It has a consumption of 2 BP per week.

For that same 2 BP per week, a lord could maintain a unit of 6th level warriors (CR 4), with +1 to OM and DV relative to the dog riders (plus some more hit points) but a lower Speed and no ranged weapons.

I realize I'm using a "trick" to cut costs in the first example (odd numbered CRs are more cost effective due to the rounding down of fractions), but I'm being consistent in using or not using the trick with each pair of units in each example.


Couple of random thoughts (as I'm contemplating a unit of frost giants mounted on mammoths):

How do you think the "Trample" special ability would translate to mass combat?

Should the Rock Throwing special ability allow a unit to destroy fortifications in a manner similar to siege engines?


Werebat - all these posts should really should be part of the Mass Combat thread - they're getting pretty far from kingdom building.

You're finding some of the holes that made me abandon anything even resembling the original mass combat system, though.

Silver Crusade

Bobson wrote:

Werebat - all these posts should really should be part of the Mass Combat thread - they're getting pretty far from kingdom building.

You're finding some of the holes that made me abandon anything even resembling the original mass combat system, though.

True. We use a modified version of the 3PP Warpath. I tried to incorporate what types of buildings you have that allows you to build certain units. About half my players LOVE kingdom building (we only did one session of mass combat with the original combat system, which was enough to turn ALL my players off of that version of combat), the other half are just, meh, on it. But those that do love the kingdom building are HUGE Civilization II, III, IV, and V players and I've tried to bring alot of aspects from those awesome games into kingdom building.


How would you recommend rolling magic items with the new Ultimate Equipment guide? Now that minor, medium, and major items have been split into "lesser" and "greater" should that just be rolled randomly as well? Should it be an even 50/50 chance for each, or should more weight be thrown toward one or the other?

I'm leaning toward just the 50/50 roll for each one until the city has a high enough base value where rolling on the lesser minor items list is going to usually result in an item that can be bought without trouble anyway. But where that point is, I'm not sure yet.

Any other thoughts on this?


DukeRuckley wrote:

How would you recommend rolling magic items with the new Ultimate Equipment guide? Now that minor, medium, and major items have been split into "lesser" and "greater" should that just be rolled randomly as well? Should it be an even 50/50 chance for each, or should more weight be thrown toward one or the other?

I'm leaning toward just the 50/50 roll for each one until the city has a high enough base value where rolling on the lesser minor items list is going to usually result in an item that can be bought without trouble anyway. But where that point is, I'm not sure yet.

Any other thoughts on this?

I'd probably say all minor items rolled up are greater, and either split the rest 75/25 or 50/50 (I lean towards 75/25).

That being said, generating items for the magic item economy is a pain to begin with, and I just use a random treasure generator, which probably won't include the new stuff any time soon.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

I talked over some changes with my group and I want to get some feedback from people here.

  • Change what certain buildings produce from magic items to trade items. For example, the Black Market produces 2 minor trade items, 1 medium trade item, and 1 major trade item.

  • The kingdom size determines how many items can be sold by each district each month.

  • Decrease the amount of BP each trade item would give so that you can't create super rich kingdoms quickly.

  • Add Improved and Greater versions of buildings to provide plenty of options for selecting which trade items the kingdom can rely on.

  • Create events that change supply and demand for different trade items, making some more valuable than others.


Hi there, new poster here so be gentle.

I have been using the rule for kingdom building in my campaign (which is not kingmaker) and after 36 months or so of playing, all of their rolls are now automatic. Their size is 21 but their mod are 40+ in economy and late 30`s in the other. BP are coming in hard because of the black market and it`s 1 major items (15 bp) wich they sell every month along with 10-11 BP per economy check. Now they are starting their second district and their is no end in sight.

I have plan of couple of mass combat as they are several nation around their city, but still, by each passing month, their BP intake just keep getting higher and higher and soon, they will be the most powerful nation in the land.

So unless they decided to expand and take every hexes in the map (wich I doubt they will) Their kingdom will never fails (unless it`s a 1 of course)

any idea to help a GM out.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

@Frederick L:

Step 1) Write up an evil organization within their walls and have them have a conflicting interest.

Step 2) Adopt my rule of 1/4 their growth = unregulated growth so slums start getting built temples they don't necessarily want, unruly tavern, another black market ect. These buildings provide no benefit to the kingdom but can generate unrest

Step 3) Take my expanded events thread and weight it with more bad events

Step 4) Crime spree, the target your kingdom's magic shops

Step 5) Start charging BPs to maintain the city, called stagnation.

Step 6) Evil organization trys for a seat on the small council goes Gregori and gets some citizenry behind him.

If you make them paranoid enough you can get them to waste BPs on all sorts of things.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

This really should be a conversation in its own thread.

To help you, look into doing more events to challenge your players. Make your own events that are tailored to your game. Vary the penalties and benefits so they actually have an impact. Look into changing the rules.

Lastly, set aside the rules of kingdom building and focus on the adventure unless there is an event that makes things unstable in the kingdom.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ok, feeling a little dumb here, but while we're at KM for quite some time, my group is a little slow in the KM building part (although they all enjoy it and do not want to change it to running it in the background), thus this has come up only recently: Unrest.

There's been a lot of talk about Unrest and how Unrest from building buildings is a 1-month-only occurrence (when they are built) and do not apply the following "Kingdom turn".

But what sources for Unrest a cumulative?
What I found:

  • some vacancies, e. g. the ruler's position: each Upkeep Phase you increase Unrest by 4
  • not being able to pay your consumption increases Unrest each month by 2
  • When withdrawing, each time your kingdom's Unrest increases by 1
  • destroyed city blocks which are not rebuilt increase Unrest by 1 each month the damage is not repaired

    Anything else? Did I misinterpret what I found?

    Ruyan.


  • RuyanVe wrote:

    But what sources for Unrest a cumulative?

    What I found:
  • some vacancies, e. g. the ruler's position: each Upkeep Phase you increase Unrest by 4
  • not being able to pay your consumption increases Unrest each month by 2
  • When withdrawing, each time your kingdom's Unrest increases by 1
  • destroyed city blocks which are not rebuilt increase Unrest by 1 each month the damage is not repaired

    Anything else? Did I misinterpret what I found?
    Ruyan.

  • There's also a certain

    Spoiler:
    Bard

    plus I believe certain kingdom events can cause ongoing unrest...


    I'm counting on G to cause a lot of mischief, Philip. Thanks!

    Ruyan.


    Has there been any recent activity for updating KM to factor in skills like knowledge(engineering) and the various applicable professions?


    I don't think so. There is of course the 3PP book by Jon Brazer Enterprises which has received very good reviews and is/was highly praised and the kingdom building rules will see an overhaul for the Ultimate Campaign - not sure what's in either of the books, because the former I do not own, the latter's not yet been published.

    Do you have any suggestion how to incorporate the skills; maybe lowering the cost for the buildings or increase some of their benefits?

    Ruyan.


    So let me start by saying Ultimate Campaign is a wonderful supplement I wish I had years ago for DnD 3.0 I love it. Here is my small list of inquiries that I couldn't find from reading this thread:

    1: is there an errata for download on the site?

    2: Is there or will there be pawns or better visual aids for representing the kingdom than what is provided in the book?

    Thanks.


    Apparently there is already a lot of 3rd Party material in the works.

    Sovereign Court

    Now that the kingdom rules have been updated in Ultimate Campaign, is there another thread to post questions regarding kingdom building rules or is this thread the best place to come?

    In any case, I noticed that the "Collect Taxes" rule was modified in Ultimate Campaign. The kingdom now generates a number of BP's equal to the ecomony check divided by 3 (instead of 5) and the line mentioning that a failed check provides nothing has been removed. Does this mean that the new rules allow BP's to be generated even on a failed check?


    Hagen, it appears there is a descrepancy.

    On UCa p207 in the Edict section the example states that to make an Economy check to generate income requires a check against the control DC.

    UCa p207 wrote:
    Looking ahead to the Income phase, Jessica realizes that an average roll for her Economy check would be a failure (10 on the 1d20 + 52 Economy – 4 Unrest = 58, less than the Control DC of 60), which means there’s a good chance the kingdom won’t generate any BP this turn. She decides to set the Taxation edict to “heavy” (Economy +3, Loyalty –4).

    Clearly, one of them is incorrect.

    - Gauss


    If you have questions about the Kingdom rules in UCam, The Rules Quesion forum would probably the best place.


    Valandil Ancalime wrote:
    Alatariel wrote:
    James Jacobs wrote:


    Nope; that gets out of control too fast.

    Multiple grids each need their own walls, but a whole city can't get more DM from walls than the basic wall bonus.

    THAT SAID, multiple walls CAN help defend inner districts, if you get down to the nitty gritty and track mass combat attacks on a district-by-district basis rather than just a whole city at once.

    Are the bonuses for barracks/watchtowers also treated like that, or do multiples stack?
    I tried looking through to see if this was answered and I couldn't find it if it was, so I will ask - is the Dm from multiple Watchtowers (or multiple Barracks) additive or is the "a whole city can't get more DM from walls than the basic wall bonus" a generic rule that is applied to all buildings that provide a DM?

    I never saw a satisfactory resolution to the city walls question, and ruling that "Multiple grids each need their own walls, but a whole city can't get more DM from walls than the basic wall bonus" seems to be kind of awkward, and raises questions about other defensive structures (as quoted above).

    How do the following houserules sound to people who are more familiar with the interactions between city defences and mass combat than I?

    • City walls don't go on an explicit border - instead, there are four levels of city walls that can be constructed in a district. Level 1 might be log palisades, while level 4 are tall sturdy dwarf-worked stone.
    • Each level costs 8 BP, adds 4 to the city's defence and reduces unrest by 2, as normal.
    • The district is surrounded on all (land-bordered) sides by the walls, even if they're just level 1. If the district has water borders, they limit the maximum level walls can be upgraded to - one less than 4 per water border.
    • Defence-improving constructions such as walls, barracks etc. add their bonus to the city's defence without limit. However, the city's effective defence is its total defence from structures divided by the number of districts in the city... larger cities are harder to defend and require more defensive structures just to break even.

    So, if you have city consisting of a single walled district (level 1 walls, defence 4) and then add another district, expanding beyond the walls, your city becomes more vulnerable (with 2 districts, the city's effective defence drops to 4÷2 = 2... it only gets half the benefit from its walls). In order to get back to where you were, you need to build walls in the new district as well.

    These houserules do mean that districts that are completely surrounded by walled districts still need to be walled if you want to get the full 16 Defence from walls for the city, but I can live with that - there's no question that internal walls between districts would improve the city's defences, providing fall-back positions when the outer walls were breached etc.


    Question:

    I do understand that the tile system for settlements is an approximation, but still, how large would 1 tile could be if converted to ft?


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    By one tile do you mean one lot, or one district?


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    A district tile is supposed to be one square mile in size, which means each lot is about 750'x750'. That huge size is the reason why most people tend to assume that a lot actually represents dozens of buildings, especially since each lot adds 250 to your town's population. However, consider how boring it would be, having to actually build enough houses to support a town, at a 'reasonable scale'. You'd eventually end up doing exactly what the rules do and say "this lot is just a bunch of houses, and this lot is an inn and a bunch of houses, and..."


    guys ive been running a dnd5e game since it came out in beta. its an open game and if they push forward there is a chance they're going to try and reforge their old kingdom.i've been running games since i was 9 years old (32 now) i have ideas and things ive used in the past but i've heard that the kingdom maker campaign stuff for pathfinder is good... ive been reading over it, is it that complicated and is diplomacy different for each sect interacted with? Also, if you have some pregenerated kingdoms i'd love to utilize them

    dallaspaskell@aol.com

    that would be awesome!!!


    Ok i've read the rules and given a fast look at the topics here, but i 'm still doubtful:
    1) what can my players do the first month? Say, they found the kingdom, they start building the city in the first hex and the 2/3buildings there, they cnnot claim more hex for they've already claimed one this month (tough out of sequence, being it the first one)
    They can't build farms for they gave nohex without a city. Second month onearda they follow the normal turn?
    2) without force-putting some of the PNG they've met in SL in some of the ruling roles, they are bound to die soon for vacancy (and i don't want my players to feel forced to put someone who they feel is not fit for the role).
    To resolve this last issue i've houseruled that they will have no penalities for vacancy untill they've built the correspondant infrastructure (the magister is really not that useful in a thorp), while still having to cover the main roles (ruler, high priest, treasurer,warden/marshal)
    Obviously i'll create some fit PNGs who'll come in from restov, such as a youngling swordlord known for her(his?) honeyed tongue and for being way to able to defend herself


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    What the players can do in the first month depends on where they found their kingdom. One of the most common places to found the kingdom happens to be in a Hill hex, which takes one month to prepare for starting a Settlement. If, instead, they choose the other common place, which is a Plains hex, they can immediately begin building their first Settlement.

    Edict Phase
    Step 1 - Assign Leadership
    You've stated that they don't yet have people for all the necessary positions, which can indeed be a big issue. One possibility is to have the Swordlords send a few clerks over who have standard NPC stats (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 stat array) to help the party get their kingdom started. If there's a trust issue, remind the players that these NPCs were sent by the same people who gave them 50 BP to found the new kingdom with, and that they may very well be obligated to accept these NPCs until better people can be found.

    Step 2 - Claim and Abandon Hexes
    They get to claim exactly one hex, which then becomes the entirety of their new kingdom. Remember that this needs to be a hex which they have Explored, not just visited, and that they must have Cleared all encounters in that hex. This will cost 1 BP.

    Step 3 - Does Not Exist!
    Don't ask.

    Step 4 - Build Terrain Improvements
    This one is tricky, and will require you to make a few rulings. First up, is whether the party can do anything beyond preparing the hex for settlement. What the rules say is "You may also prepare a hex for constructing a settlement." (Emphasis added.) This implies that you can build X amount of terrain improvements and then still prepare the hex for settlement. If you agree, then they may build up to two terrain improvements, and then prepare the hex for settlement. The other tricky thing is which terrain improvements can be built in the same hex as a city. The Stockyard building makes a reference to Farms "in this hex", which implies that a Farm may occupy the same hex as a city. This is entirely up to you. If a Farm may occupy the same hex as a city, you might also conclude that a Mine or Quarry would also be acceptable, and the rules allow a Farm and Mine to share a single hex.

    All of that means that, potentially, the party could build a Farm, a Mine or Quarry, and prepare the hex for settlement, all in the first month, at a cost of 12 BP. Note that this is only an option in a Hill hex, as Plains hexes do not accommodate Mines or Quarries. This is all up to you.

    Step 5 - Create and Improve Settlements
    Unless the first hex is a Plains hex, then this is not an option, as all other hexes require at least one month to prepare for settlement. If it IS a Plains hex, then they may start their new settlement and build one building in the new city district, and optionally one House building, as the first House build each month doesn't count against restrictions. If the first hex is a Hill hex, then construction cannot begin until Month 2.

    Step 6 - Create Army Units
    I certainly hope not.

    Step 7 - Issue Edicts
    Probably best to set these all to Standard at the beginning, but your players can do as they please.

    Income Phase
    Step 1 - Make Withdrawals from the Treasury
    Bad idea, I definitely don't recommend doing this.

    Step 2 - Make Deposits to the Treasury
    Shouldn't be necessary, but always an option if they have excess cash and nothing better to spend it on. (Or have managed to massively exceed WBL using the downtime rules from Ultimate Campaign and are worried you'll take their precious money away if they don't hide it somewhere.)

    Step 3 - Sell Expensive Items for BP
    An artifact of the old magic item economy, this is now basically the same as Step 2.

    Step 4 - Collect Taxes
    Roll a d20, add the kingdom's Economy score, and... it depends. Some GMs allow this check to fail, meaning you compare it to the kingdom's Control DC and if it's equal or higher, the kingdom earns income. Some GMs don't allow this check to fail, and always add the result/3 to the kingdom's treasury, regardless of the result. It's up to you.

    Event Phase
    Note that the first two events are supposed to be replaced with The Founding of Tatzlford and Troll Sightings.


    Thanks for the answer! What do you think of the idea of making vacancy count at a later point?


    That's also an option, but they are going to have a hard time hitting the Control DC reliably if there are significant vacancies, even without the vacancy penalty. I would definitely let them know how long they have until vacancy penalties are applied (ideally no more than 2 months) and point out how much of a difference the bonuses from filling those positions will make.


    When my guys were city building - I sent resources out in Wagon Trains - I worked it so that each wagon held one BP (as a mixture of people, skills and resources) and then wrote a competent NPC as the Wagon Train leader.

    Who they then had an option of picking up to fill in a leadership role. It worked quite well, and they started looking forward to the wagon trains arriving to see who they could pick up this time.

    Use (something like) the fourth one for the Spy :)


    Norin d'orien wrote:
    Thanks for the answer! What do you think of the idea of making vacancy count at a later point?

    Also - instead of fully fledged 'kingdom' positions, you might like to consider

    something like a 'council of elders'...

    Even a small village might have a variety of people it turns to for advice etc.
    Why not have people take up roles which give the same benefits, but are
    not the specific roles in the rules?

    Then, when the thorp grows big enough, the council can be formalised...


    Looks like a good idea. one of my players has already said me he wish to have the first part of the planning in a secluded place, only with the other pcs and maybe kesten (he has helped them with staggy and since he kinda tanked the owlbear (dropping twice below 0) the pcs now trust him a lot, and i've also changed his attitude to careful for letting him gain some honor in battle)) . Once they've decided who they want to be (can't wait for my friend's asmodean cleric to become high priest) they're going to chat with the other folks..


    "Step 4 - Build Terrain Improvements
    This one is tricky, and will require you to make a few rulings. First up, is whether the party can do anything beyond preparing the hex for settlement. What the rules say is "You may also prepare a hex for constructing a settlement." (Emphasis added.) This implies that you can build X amount of terrain improvements and then still prepare the hex for settlement. If you agree, then they may build up to two terrain improvements, and then prepare the hex for settlement. The other tricky thing is which terrain improvements can be built in the same hex as a city. The Stockyard building makes a reference to Farms "in this hex", which implies that a Farm may occupy the same hex as a city. This is entirely up to you. If a Farm may occupy the same hex as a city, you might also conclude that a Mine or Quarry would also be acceptable, and the rules allow a Farm and Mine to share a single hex.

    All of that means that, potentially, the party could build a Farm, a Mine or Quarry, and prepare the hex for settlement, all in the first month, at a cost of 12 BP. Note that this is only an option in a Hill hex, as Plains hexes do not accommodate Mines or Quarries. This is all up to you."

    Post by Mackenzie Kavanaugh

    Just started reading the Kingmaker adventure paths. I'm understanding most of the rules so far, but am getting tripped by on the terrain improvements.

    Let's use a very simple example- The players have explored a hex, cleared of any threats and are ready to build in the hex. First, they must decide on what terrain improvements to spend BP on, such as building roads to connect to other hexes, or adding in an aqueduct to channel in some water from a river in a nearby hex. Additionally, they can build a farm, sawmill, or whatever else is listed under terrain improvements. Once this is done, THEN they refer to the district grid and begin spending more BP to construct buildings, following those rules.

    My main question is, is there any limit to how many terrain improvements they can add to a single hex? The above post seems to indicate that it is up to DM discretion.

    If this is correct, my leaning is to just split them into two categories- Infrastructure for roads, highways, aqueducts, and canals and Resources/Defense-Fort, Watchtower, Sawmill, Farm, Fishery, Quarry, Mine, Vineyard, and allow the players to only pick two from either list, per hex.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    This isn't at all what the rules say, but I think I would be more inclined to split it four ways, with one improvement allowed from each category:

    Economic improvements (1 per hex): City, Sawmill, Farm, Fishery, Quarry, Mine, Vineyard.

    Defence improvements (1 per hex): Fort, Watchtower.

    Road improvements (1 per hex, plus bridge if necessary): Road, highway.

    Water improvements (1 per hex): Aqueduct, canal.

    It's not unreasonable to want to cross your roads and aqueducts, or put up a fort to protect your mine. Conversely, slapping a city, a mine, and a farm in the same hex feels like getting way too much for only 1 blip of control DC.


    That does seem reasonable, yes.


    Do the Stability bonuses the party gets from completing Melianse's and Tiressia's quests apply right away, or only after their home hexes are added to the Kingdom?


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    I think they apply immediately


    James Jacobs wrote:
    Okay! Let's use this thread to ask questions and get rulings for building kingdoms and cities using the rules in Pathfinder Adventure Path #32.

    What stops players from ignoring the required BPs for building a house or making a road and just building it themselves?

    There appears to be something in the rules for something SIMILAR to this, at the below link under Special Terrain there is info for how to deal with a hex that already has a building in it, would physically building a house or whatnot follow the same rules?

    Quote:
    Building: The hex contains an abandoned building in good repair (type determined by the GM). If you establish a settlement at the building's location in the hex, you can incorporate the building into the settlement at no cost (this does not count toward your building limit for that turn).

    http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/kingdomsAndWar/ki ngdomTurnSequence.html


    Generally 'a building' is not in fact 'a' building, but an area dedicated to
    buildings of a similar type. So - the Pcs aren't building a shop, but are
    building a shopping precinct, with supporting homes for shopkeepers, relevant
    roading etc etc.

    That said - some 'buildings' are perhaps a single building (e.g. temple), but
    again - unless they are huge & take up the whole area by themselves - they will
    also have support structures, such as housing, stable etc etc etc...

    All that said - if my PCs wanted to build a block of whatever - I would let them,
    but they'd have to stump up the BP worth of it. If they only wanted to pay the
    price of one building of that particular type - I would let them, but they
    wouldn't get the benefits of the whole district being dedicated to that...


    Philip Knowsley wrote:

    All that said - if my PCs wanted to build a block of whatever - I would let them,

    but they'd have to stump up the BP worth of it. If they only wanted to pay the
    price of one building of that particular type - I would let them, but they
    wouldn't get the benefits of the whole district being dedicated to that...

    I'm sorry but what does "stump up the BP worth of it" mean?

    kay so if they did build the entire 12 mile length of the hex you would let them but not give them the benefits of the hex?


    The rules assume that a BP is worth more or less 4000gp. Since a "House" is not really a single house but a housing-focused neighbourhood, probably with some non-descript minor merchants (baker, butcher, etc.), the PCs would have to pay about 12,000gp out of their pockets to gain the same benefits.

    In the same way, building "a Road" on a hex doesn't usually mean a single road crossing, but a complex network of transportation, with a main and well-maintained road and smaller roads leading to thorps, hamlets and farmlands (because approx. 200-250 people live in each hex...).

    951 to 1,000 of 1,104 << first < prev | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | next > last >>
    Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Kingmaker / Kingdom Building All Messageboards

    Want to post a reply? Sign in.