Monster dinner or slayer?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


It’s my first time posting, my group will be doing a level 15 campaign in a month or so(all our others have ended around level 10). Currently my guy has decent saves and ok AC. Some of the abilities are odd and I’m not sure how to stitch the fluff together in a sensible humanoid manner. What I'd like to know is if this would work at level 15 or would I find myself getting turned into mince-meat?

We use any 3.5 / Pathfinder material standard gold (although we almost always start with slightly more; best to assume the least). My group has a history of strange builds; some really effective others served a noble purpose as monster chow.

I tried out the format used in the DPR Olympics thread using bestiaries AC 29 CR 15 creatures (we stick close to the rules so this should be good approximation). Basically I wanted to make something unique, so I tried to make a character that uses *almost* all of his ability scores.

DPR = 71.82 -precision including sudden strike
DPR without precision = 24

Alagoson, elf Ninja 1 (CA), Swashbuckler 3 (CW), Fighter 1, Shadow Dancer 2, Duelist 6, Champion of Corellon Larethian 2 (RotW)

Before anyone points it out, we add fractional BAB, so I have 3*3/4 BAB classes and 12*1 BAB= 14 BAB

Ability Scores:
STR: 10 (0)
DEX: 25 (+7) (15 base, +2 level, +2 racial, +6 belt)
CON: 16 (+3) (12 base, -2 racial +6 belt)
INT: 22 (+6) (14 base, +2 racial +6 headband)
WIS: 20 (+5) (13 base, +1 level, +6 headband)
CHA: 8 (-1)

HP: 124 HP (12d10+3d8+45)

Saving Throws
Fort: +16 Ref: +15 Will: +15

AC: 33 - Touch 30, Flatfooted 15 (+2 bracers of armor, +1 Dodge, +7 dex, +6 int, +5 Wis +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, +1 Ring of Protection)

Attacks: +5 elven thinblade +27/+22/+17, d8+5 dmg (18-20/x2)

Special Attacks:
Insightful strike (int added as precision damage) +6
Elegant strike (dex added as precision damage) +7
Precise strike (add duelist level to damage) +6
Sudden strike +1d6

Class Abilities:
Evasion
Uncanny Dodge
Ki pool, monk bonus,
Grace +3
Canny defence (up to 6 int to dex modifier)
Improved reaction, parry, enhanced mobility (stacks with mobility), riposte
trapfinding

BAB: +14 CMB: +14 CMD: 30

Feats:
Weapon Finesse (bonus)
Combat reflexes (rapier) (bonus)
dodge
Mobility
Mounted combat
Combat expertise
Einhander (PHBII)
Iron will
Improved iron will
Weapon focus
Sense Weakness (bonus)

Skills:
high Stealth
High perception
High acrobatics
High sleight of hand – used with Einhander to feint as a free action after 2 hits from full attack
Spellcraft?
Other’s for PrC prereq

Gear:
+5 elven thinblade
+2 bracers of armor
Belt of physical might +6+6
Headband of insight +6+6
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Ring of Protection +1
Handy Haversack

Sovereign Court

Well..until you hit things that are immune to sneak attack you'll be alright.

Probably be better off with Rogue instead of Ninja. Make sure your thin-blade is made of adamantine or get the ridiculous enchant that let's it switch to the proper DR breaking type. Think it's in the MiC, but it might be in one of the odd magic books. Belt of Magnificence from the Miniature's handbook would be good too.

Get some use magic device going with some scrolls of blink or some other useful spells. A level or two of Diviner would probably be a benefit given the 1st level divination spells in the spell compendium.

A fighter-type with power attack and so on will out damage you easily.


Totally agree that anything immune to precision damage hoops me.

Morgen wrote:
Probably be better off with Rogue instead of Ninja. Make sure your thin-blade is made of adamantine or get the ridiculous enchant that let's it switch to the proper DR breaking type. Think it's in the MiC, but it might be in one of the odd magic books. Belt of Magnificence from the Miniature's handbook would be good too.

Weapon is +5 so should be fine; they fiddled with the rules for that in PF. Thought about a level of Rogue instead of the ninja, but because the dex modifier is so high that armor is not practical. Also first level rogue in PF only gains trapfinding and sneak attack 1d6. . . Ninja 1st gets that and a + wis mod to AC and sudden strike (a poor substitute but the Wis to AC and for Will saves). If I were to take more than a dip I'd say Rogue is 100% better.

Morgen wrote:
Get some use magic device going with some scrolls of blink or some other useful spells. A level or two of Diviner would probably be a benefit given the 1st level divination spells in the spell compendium.

Your right bout getting some consumables... I assume when you say diviner its a wizard specializing in Divinations (I've never done an arcane caster). The only level really drop-able is the ninja; I originally had this using Sword Sage in Celestial armor, but when I found out the Duelist ability adds Int onto the dex mod instead of a dodge bonus the AC it went from its then unreasonable 42 to a more standard 33 (I agree with this in balance terms but its still annoying). The forewarned ability would be nice but in order to do that and still get into the PrC's at the correct level I would have to drop the ninja level, transfer the Wis base stat to Con or Str. . . it sounds like a good idea I'll look into that one tomorrow, thanks!

Totally forgot about UMD, duh! Good catch.

Morgen wrote:
A fighter-type with power attack and so on will out damage you easily.

Also, main goal of this build wasn't so much maximized damage, but rather using every stat I could get away with without ending up totally gibbled. Building something that did as much damage as a fighter with equal BAB good saves and high stats all-around with NO ARMOR would be unbalanced. Because of the Rogue abilities its prolly closer to compare it to a level 15 Rogue that gets 8d6 sneak attack. . . I've done a few Rogues and I know that beating this in damage would be a fairly simple task; Average sneak attack damage is 28 while I'm getting out 22 precision. That said you wouldn't have the following out of place probably useless abilities

Useless abilities:

ki pool of 6 - what possible use could this have? dropping ninja for wizard sounds better the more I think about it
Corellon’s Blessing - lay on hands for 2 damage!
Hide in plain sight - without Darkstalker feat it feels pointless
mounted combat - likelihood of this being useful is low; with no horse it probably wont come up unless the mage polymorphs into an equine and lets me ride him.
5 ranks in preform dance while everyone else is fighting out with swords and arcane powers I can river dance; odds of this coming up- never
Combat reflexes as a level 4 Duelist I get the feat again and I cant drop the old one cause it would disqualify me for EVERYTHING


You might be interested in the feat Dervish Dance from "Qadira: Gateway to the East":

Qadira splatbook wrote:

Dervish Dance

You have learned to turn your speed into power, even with a heavier blade.

Prerequisites: Dexterity 13, Weapon Finesse, Perform (dance) 2 ranks, proficient with scimitar.

Benefit: When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.

That would allow you to get either rid of Champion of Corellon Larethian, or if you can convince your GM that the "Dex to damage" would stack, so much the better! You could add in some levels of the Dervish prestige class as well to get some use out of Perform (dance).

Sovereign Court

Yeah, I was thinking a Wizard specialized as a Diviner. It'd get you access to like golem strike or some of the other silly first level divination spells, and on top of that make it so you always act in the surprise round and get a +1 to initiative to boot.

Plus it cuts down on the UMD you need for like wands and things, especially if your DM lets you buy wands that aren't fully charged.

If you wanted wisdom to your AC you could always look at monk too? Probably ex-monk but you'd keep all the abilities. Wis to AC, +2 to all saves, stunning fist, another bonus feat and the ability to properly wear a monk's belt for another +1 AC.

Dervish Dance should stack with the CoCL ability, since one replaces your strength bonus with your dexterity bonus while the other adds your dexterity bonus to damage rolls as a bonus.


Thanks a bunch, this really helps! I'm gonna talk to my group over next few days figure out what kind of guys they're thinking of; if we dont have anyone with trapfinding (the DM always puts mean traps in) I'll keep the ninja and if we do I'll go Diviner as it looks very nice. Dervish Dance is especially great for this too for the very tempting x2 dex onto damage.

new damage:

with Dervish Dance instead of iron will
DPR = 87 with precision
DPR = 29 without

Thanks alot both of you!


First. PF. Post. Everere

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