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Int and Skills


Rules Questions

Sczarni

so just to clear things up when i level my character and increase my Int my skill points are not retro active right, im not talking about items increasing my Int but the bonus every one gets when they level.

Osirion

If I recall you do indeed get retro skill points. Makes it easier to stat up high level NPC's and all.


They are retroactive I believe.

PRD Glossary wrote:
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.

Specifically, it mentions that increasing an ability score may cause you to gain skill points.

Sczarni

is this listed any where in the pfsrd web site.

Sczarni

my friend and i are having a disagreement so i need to point out where it says this.


northbrb wrote:
is this listed any where in the pfsrd web site.
PFSRD wrote:
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics as appropriate. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses.


northbrb wrote:
is this listed any where in the pfsrd web site.

On the PFSRD it can be found under the Ability Scores entry.

On the PRD it can be found in the Glossary, under Ability Score Bonuses.

EDIT: Also, when it comes to settling rules disputes, the PFSRD is great for reference, but not everything there is official. You should probably double check against the PRD, which is maintained by Paizo and is official.

Sczarni

i just read both of those and neither one directly states retro active skill points but imply that you gain more skill points for that level.


northbrb wrote:
i just read both of those and neither one directly states retro active skill points but imply that you gain more skill points for that level.

Errrr, not really. "This might cause you to gain skill points"

It does not state that WHEN YOU GAIN A LEVEL you get skill points, it says IMEDIATELLY after the score is raised you may get skill points.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

10 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required. 15 people marked this as a favorite.

All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks... all of them. Skill ranks not being retroactive are a 3.5 convention we specifically removed from the game because it was a weird exception to the rule, and since now there are no exceptions to this rule, there's no need to specifically state that skill ranks are retroactively granted if your Intelligence goes up.


James Jacobs wrote:

All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks... all of them. Skill ranks not being retroactive are a 3.5 convention we specifically removed from the game because it was a weird exception to the rule, and since now there are no exceptions to this rule, there's no need to specifically state that skill ranks are retroactively granted if your Intelligence goes up.

And there you go. ;)


northbrb wrote:
i just read both of those and neither one directly states retro active skill points but imply that you gain more skill points for that level.

I'd suggest looking up the Headband of Vast Intellect, as after 24 hours it's bonuses change from temporary to permanent, and it specifically adds 1 skill rank per HD for each +2 Int it confers.

Also, the line "This might cause you to gain skill points" pretty clearly indicates that you gain skill points retroactively, as there would be no need to note the potential for gaining skill points otherwise as it would simply be handled using the normal rules the next time you leveled. It's worth noting that this phrase was specifically added in the change from 3.5 to Pathfinder.

Sczarni

thank you so much james i appreciate the quick answer, this helps me a lot.


Brodiggan Gale wrote:
northbrb wrote:
i just read both of those and neither one directly states retro active skill points but imply that you gain more skill points for that level.

I'd suggest looking up the Headband of Vast Intellect, as after 24 hours it's bonuses change from temporary to permanent, and it specifically adds 1 skill rank per HD for each +2 Int it confers.

Also, the line "This might cause you to gain skill points" pretty clearly indicates that you gain skill points retroactively, as there would be no need to note the potential for gaining skill points otherwise as it would simply be handled using the normal rules the next time you leveled. It's worth noting that this phrase was specifically added in the change from 3.5 to Pathfinder.

You do indeed gain skill points on a level up.

Just noting that the skill rank per HD for each +2 Int it confers is set upon creation of the item. When creating this item, you have to decide what skill it will boost, you don't get to pick every time you put it on.

Enjoy your bonus skill points.

Silver Crusade

What happens to your skill points when you permanently lose intellect for whatever reason?

Cheliax

ThornDJL7 wrote:
What happens to your skill points when you permanently lose intellect for whatever reason?

then you lose the ranks, starting with the most recent. if you cant determine most recent the DM picks


Name Violation wrote:
ThornDJL7 wrote:
What happens to your skill points when you permanently lose intellect for whatever reason?
then you lose the ranks, starting with the most recent. if you cant determine most recent the DM picks

Only in the case of Ability Drain do you lose skill points, and that can always be healed with a spell.


James Jacobs wrote:

All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks... all of them. Skill ranks not being retroactive are a 3.5 convention we specifically removed from the game because it was a weird exception to the rule, and since now there are no exceptions to this rule, there's no need to specifically state that skill ranks are retroactively granted if your Intelligence goes up.

If that is the case why does the item specify that you put all ranks into one skill per +2 bonus decided at creation? Retroactively gaining them should allow to to put them where you want.


Ellessen wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks... all of them. Skill ranks not being retroactive are a 3.5 convention we specifically removed from the game because it was a weird exception to the rule, and since now there are no exceptions to this rule, there's no need to specifically state that skill ranks are retroactively granted if your Intelligence goes up.

If that is the case why does the item specify that you put all ranks into one skill per +2 bonus decided at creation? Retroactively gaining them should allow to to put them where you want.

With items the skill you gain bonus ranks in is specified at creation because otherwise you could take the headband off, then put it back on and change up your skill points whenever you needed a new skill. That would be just a little crazy.


Ellessen wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks... all of them. Skill ranks not being retroactive are a 3.5 convention we specifically removed from the game because it was a weird exception to the rule, and since now there are no exceptions to this rule, there's no need to specifically state that skill ranks are retroactively granted if your Intelligence goes up.

If that is the case why does the item specify that you put all ranks into one skill per +2 bonus decided at creation? Retroactively gaining them should allow to to put them where you want.

Each headband has skills built into it so while it will boost any stat that depends on int such as knowledge skills, the headband will only give you the skills that were assigned to it by the creator.

Grand Lodge

Okay, so a headband of vast intelligence +4 has 2 skills associated with it, selected by its creator at the time of its crafting. After 24 hours of wearing the headband, you receives bonus ranks equal to your HD, which don't stack with any ranks you may already possess in those skills.

Got it.

So, so you also get the additional skill points from having a permanent increase to INT? I don't see anything that says you don't, but it seems like a really large extra boost.

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