The group I play in although have years of experiance and know the rules, fail to apply that knowledge in an epic way. I find that I'm having to point out little things (like your rogue can flank if he uses acrobatics to get past the front ranks) and I feel that I'm telling all what to do and feel uncomfortable with it. I mentioned this to both players and GM and got the all clear and no one feels that I'm hogging the table and are grateful that I'm doing this as they (GM and Players) are learning who the rules interact.
This maybe the issue here or he may be an ar$e.
Remember you players haven't got to do what the other gamer is suggesting. And, in character, you could just walk away from the PC. This has happened before in my games when a PC was being an ar$e. He was warned in character and when the PC didn't shape up the others just didn't pick him up on the way to the next town.
Talking to the Player is the first step.
I fail to see a real problem. You play what you want to play. It looks to me that you got your bases covered, so you can really play whatever you want. A Paladin would be the best choice indeed as I see it.
Just plain say no, in game. When he tells u to do something, you simply say "No", over and over until his face turns red. It happened to me before, and it was awesome, eventually the guy realized he was being an arse and stopped. The way I see it, if he isn't changing with words it's time for action, you don't have to do anything drastic at all, just turn his PC down on EVERY opportunity you got, and if he says something about it in character you answer to him the truth, he is an ass and you can't stand him. He WILL come around, of course a joint effort is much better for this.
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You'd be surprised at how easy it is to attract attention as a fighter. Try this next time the high CHA jerks try to talk over you: tell the GM "My fighter draws his sword, jumps over the counter, and TELLS the innkeeper the night is going to be 2gp, not 5gp." Then have your character address one of the high CHA jerks, "You got a problem with my negotiation skills, partner?"
Yes, that always works out well. :) Ususally, that ends up with what we've dubbed the "Chaine Wreck" - in honour of the character who is usually the instigator of these disasterous social flubs. It is ususally followed up with the bard saying "What my associate meant to say was..."
But I agree with PDK, you should talk to the guy or leave the group with the rest of the group in tow. I did that just over a year ago, and it's not as hard as it sounds. Great way to make new friends too!
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Inconceivable. At least to me. And in nearly 3.5 decades of constant gaming with, by now, over a hundred full-time players, I have never seen anything like this. Not once. I've never even heard of it - until now.
I'm betting that you don't live in a small city, then. These type of things are most prevalent in cities without enough players to form two groups (or at least without enough KNOWN players to form two groups).
For instance, in my small city I know of about 10 people who play RPGs. Out of all 10 of those people only 4 are reliable enough to start a campaign with. One of those four doesn't bathe, has a very specific mindset of how gaming should go (which was often times in opposition to the rest of the group), and gets irritated very easily.
Our dilemma, then, was to play with this one person that we (my wife and I - half the group, mind you) weren't fond of, play with unreliable people (thereby only ACTUALLY playing once every month or two), or not play at all. In the end we decided to drive the 150 miles to Houston every other week just to have a regular game, but this is obviously not a choice for everyone in our situation. In fact, if we didn't have family in the area we wouldn't be able to do it either since it would get too costly for four to six hours of entertainment.
Agree with DM Blake. This is inconsistent with my own experiences. If things are that bad, and have been for some time, I don't understand why the players keep showing up and putting up with it (or why the DM continues to let it go on).
The DM could just tell him he fails...
Or, more likely, some one calls the city guard.
Or, Ogre enforcers as the case may be in the 4E weekly event to undermountain...
Between that and what happened in last week's adventure, I've decided to start hitting first and intimidating later...
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Then, just at this plan was about to be put into action, the bored Fighter player who had remained silent until now yelled, "Chaaarrrgggeee!" and ran screaming through the middle of the encampment with his big sword, waking all the guards, and destroying 20mins of careful planning ... roll for initiative, folks!
So I'm not a fan of Fighter-with-Sword "Diplomacy" either. Disruptive players certainly aren't limited to high CHA concepts.
Let him charge ahead. Who made him a leader anyways?
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You'd be surprised at how easy it is to attract attention as a fighter. Try this next time the high CHA jerks try to talk over you: tell the GM "My fighter draws his sword, jumps over the counter, and TELLS the innkeeper the night is going to be 2gp, not 5gp." Then have your character address one of the high CHA jerks, "You got a problem with my negotiation skills, partner?"Yes, that always works out well. :) Ususally, that ends up with what we've dubbed the "Chaine Wreck" - in honour of the character who is usually the instigator of these disasterous social flubs. It is ususally followed up with the bard saying "What my associate meant to say was..."
But I agree with PDK, you should talk to the guy or leave the group with the rest of the group in tow. I did that just over a year ago, and it's not as hard as it sounds. Great way to make new friends too!
PDK: He he he... folks, my character's name is "Chaine" by the way, hence the aptly named "Chaine Wreck". :) I even have an avatar for this guy, see? (points at the avatar) :)
Truth is, in real life, the low CHA people tend to take more "risks" as they are less troubled with others' feelings. Many CEOs or bosses are, ironically, low CHA individuals relying on skills, intelligence or trade secrets.
With this Chaine guy, I have been trying this approach... a guy who thinks himself as an industry captain / business leader, but with no CHA skills whatsoever. I even had this fighter take leadership for s$@%s and giggles, and it's been a blast. His idea of people with high diplomacy is that they exist to mitigate risk. Therefore, if you have high CHA followers or friends, you can make more radical decisions and trust that they will soften the blow/impact for anyone who's feathers have been ruffled. Ask Xuttah, who plays Zim, the party's charismatic kobold bard! :)
So often, I admit, I use the guy as a deus ex machina to get the game moving. I won't block people's progress or careful planning, but when we are all scratching our heads and we are at a dead end*, I send the bumbling idiot (or should I say, the low CHA bull into the china shop) and "make something happen," for good or ill... it's usually 50-50, on the good or ill thing... :)
*such as when I sent him to the moneylender to climb to the second floor and bust in a window... my PC was clearly misguided and me, the player, had severe doubts that this was the right course of action, but I played him as a guy "who was convinced the moneylender had screwed with us." :)
Starting the Kingmaker game soon, and there is a character in our group who really grates some of us the wrong way, CHA based characters always trying to take the lead, the glory and everything else.
He is now playing a Wizard (Enchanter, 17 INT, 16 CHA, 9 STR, 12 CON, 10 DEX, 12 WIS
I'm not usually the type to do this, but we need a character to undermine this one, preferbaly without him really realising and causing bad blood...
Any suggestions?
OK, having read this through you have two options.
1) Make the paladin. You have a moral compass, so play it that way - to the max! Any time the party suggests ANY course of action (ie this guy orders something) that is morally questionable, veto it. He wants the magic doofus, counter that others deserve it more, and can make the best use of it. He wants to kill prisoners, threaten him with the law (the Law is the name of your greatsword). This won't solve anything, but you can be as big a pain to him and those players that go along with him as they are to you. I expect that what will happen is that the DM will start threatening your paladinhood every time you disagree with this player, which will make it really obvious where the real problem lies - with your DM.
2) Don't play. Contact the other players that he is driving up the wall and tell them your decision and why. Then one of you can organise your own game the way you like it. Make sure you make it open to the other players you like from that group, and that they know it. Once that DM has realised he just lost half his group because he sides with an ass, he may be more inclined to do something about it. This is probably the best way of dealing with the situation, even if you can't set up an alternative game, join one of the games here for your fix because (bad gaming < no gaming < good gaming).
Talk with the other players and form a group that the mage is redundant. Have a bard, rogue, sorcerer or even a pally for your own high charisma character to do the talking and if possible take a leadership feat for a cohort replacement. Aside from that simple disobedience is always an option. He can rattle the die all day long, but unless he charms or dominates you, tries suggestions etc. (which should tip the DM off that something's wrong) then you can do all you want and keep ignoring him.
Even shutting him in a globe of invulnerability so that he isn't harmed any further could be a fun sollution to his whining in the middle of the fight if he keeps b$#~@ing around like that.
What's important is to show unity as players.