If you Delay in the first round of combat are you still flat-footed?


Rules Questions


Assuming you don't have `Uncanny Dodge`?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

The way I understand it is you are only flat-footed until your action in the first round. That means anyone who acts in the surprise round and before your initiative in the first round can attack you with out your Dex adj. On your initiative you no longer are flat footed and you can take your action. If your action is to delay you chose to act later but you are no longer flat-footed for the rest of the combat.


harmor wrote:
Assuming you don't have `Uncanny Dodge`?

No. In other words, I concur with Mithril Dragon.


I don't know. I'm going to go ahead and disagree. The statement "if you action is to delay" says that delaying is an action.

By choosing to delay, you take no action and then act normally on whatever initiative count you decide to act.
When you delay, you voluntarily reduce your own initiative result for the rest of the combat. When your new, lower initiative count comes up later in the same round, you can act normally. You can specify this new initiative result or just wait until some time later in the round and act then, thus fixing your new initiative count at that point. You never get back the time you spend waiting to see what’s going to happen. You also can’t interrupt anyone else’s action (as you can with a readied action).

Delaying modifies your initiative position. You take no action.

At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

This does say "chance to act", but then expands by saying your first regular turn in initiative.

I would say that since you voluntarily lower your initiative count without acting, the weight of evidence is that you're still flat-footed. In this case, your character didn't have a chance to act because you delayed its turn until later on.

I would say you're flat-footed and therefore can't take immediate actions.


Anguish wrote:

I don't know. I'm going to go ahead and disagree. The statement "if you action is to delay" says that delaying is an action.

By choosing to delay, you take no action and then act normally on whatever initiative count you decide to act.
When you delay, you voluntarily reduce your own initiative result for the rest of the combat. When your new, lower initiative count comes up later in the same round, you can act normally. You can specify this new initiative result or just wait until some time later in the round and act then, thus fixing your new initiative count at that point. You never get back the time you spend waiting to see what’s going to happen. You also can’t interrupt anyone else’s action (as you can with a readied action).

Delaying modifies your initiative position. You take no action.

At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

This does say "chance to act", but then expands by saying your first regular turn in initiative.

I would say that since you voluntarily lower your initiative count without acting, the weight of evidence is that you're still flat-footed. In this case, your character didn't have a chance to act because you delayed its turn until later on.

I would say you're flat-footed and therefore can't take immediate actions.

You said it yourself, it explicitly doesn't say that you have to have acted, but only that you be given the chance. If it comes toy our turn you are then given the chance and if you delay you choose not tot ake that chance but to wait for another one.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

Anguish wrote:


I would say you're flat-footed and therefore can't take immediate actions.

Flat footed dose not prevent you from taking actions. It is just a modifier to the AC based on the fact that you have not yet had your initiative. It also gives you a condition that makes you vulnerable to sneak attacks. Delay and Ready are Special Initiative Actions that you take on your turn in the initiative order when you have the "chance to act". Yes you change your order in the initiative but that is what these "actions" are for so once a character reaches their order in the initiative the are no longer flat-footed. Originally I was going to agree with you but then I went and read the Delay and the Flat-footed info in the PRD.


Another way to look at it:

Flat-footed is a penalty you suffer because you're not really in this battle yet. Or at least your head isn't. (I know, that's slang, and it might not translate well to other cultures - it emans you're not thinking about what you're doing yet, stuff is going on around you but you're mostly unaware, or marginally aware, because you haven't begun mentally processing the situation).

When youre initiative comes up in the first round, it means you are finally making those decisions, finally processing the situation and deciding how you want to deal with it.

That's the point you stop being flat-footed.

Now, it's possible that the decision you make is to wait a while, delay, for the sake of seeing what's going on around you before you decide what you want to do.

That's fine. It's still a decision. It's still a mental process that indicates your head is in the battle now.

Which means that now you're mentally engaged in the battle so you're no longer flat-footed, even though you haven't actually acted yet.

Scarab Sages

pg 178:

Flat-footed:

At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

Delay pg 203:

By choosing to delay, you take no action and then act normally on whatever initiative count you decide to act.

So your initiative is 15. Your turn comes up *your first regular turn in the initiative order*. You choose to delay your action. You are not flat-footed, because before you can choose to delay your action, your initiative comes up and starts your first regular turn.

Once your initiative comes up, regardless of what you choose to do after that - delaying or acting - you've fulfilled the requirement to remove flat-footed.

The Exchange

MythrilDragon wrote:
Anguish wrote:


I would say you're flat-footed and therefore can't take immediate actions.

Flat footed dose not prevent you from taking actions.

It does prevent you from taking attacks of opportunity, but I'd still agree with your position on the matter.

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