Hello, as a big fan of Savage Species I'm thinking about converting the old Eladrin Ghaele monster class to an Azata Ghaele. Now I'm wondering about a few things:
1) Why Azata? Did WotC claim Eladrin as exclusive name for their new high elves?
2) Are the new Azata more powerful or less powerful? They seem to have lost some class features and gotten others. Those seem a bit weaker but fit better into the concept. In exchange they got 3 more HD with everything that comes with that.
3) Maybe a better question would be if the CR in Pathfinder is identical with the one in 3.5 If yes would that mean, that their level adjustment now would be +7?
4) In D&D Ghaele had 10 HD and casted spells like a 14th-level cleric. In PF Ghaele have 13 HD and cast spells like a 13-level cleric. Would their spellcasting ability increase with further HD, or just the caster level? Or maybe nothing?
Thanks a lot.:-)
1. Yes.
2. They are the same CR. The CR system was remaked so that it actually works and has less errors in it.
3. No. There is no such thing as LA in pathfinder. Instead the monster's level equivalency is its CR. If the monster is CR 7 then it is comparable to a level 7 character (and should be treated as such for playing it) no matter what it's hit dice are.
4. Their spell casting ability would increase if they take levels in the same class as they have spell casting power equivalency in (in this case cleric levels).
Most of this is covered in the section labeled "monsters as characters". The spell part is covered in the monster special abilities section.
"Eladrin" was never open content. Even before they did the crappy reboot of everything in 4e and made eladrin the Elf 2 race, the Eladrins had to be called just Ghaele or Bralani by everyone except wizards.
Paizo made the best of it and gave them a new name: Azata
Guardinals (the animal-headed NG outsiders) are Agathions (for the same reason), and you won't find any mention tanar'ri or baatezu (they're just demons and devils).
And the frog-like slaadi are not open content at all. Paizo cannot use them - not with the slaad name, not with any name. But good riddance, they sucked as the Chaos race, anyway. The Proteans do a much better job at it.
As for the power level: While the CR has remained the same, the stats have been changed to fit that CR better. The ghaele, for example, have a bit more than twice as many HP as the 3.5e version, their AC and saves are a lot better, they have better attacks, and while they lost one caster level, they got 3/day globe of invulnerability as a spell-like ability.
All in all, I call that a considerable boost.
As Abe already said, the level adjustment system 3.5e had was done away with. It's up to you to determine whether you want to allow characters like this and at what effective level they have to start.
As for level advancement: There are several ways you can do this in pathfinder, and none are set in stone. For example, I'd advance their caster level to remain equal to their CR/HD (and I'd advance them in a way to keep CR and HD equal, which would not be that hard)
Talking about CR, advancement and creature stats: All the critters' stats in the bestiary / core PRD monster section have been revisited to fit certain guidelines. These guidelines - which are in the book / PRD! - tell you recommended values for HP, attack and damage, DCs, AC and saves.
If you want to create your own critter (or advance an existing one), it can be a great help. The monsters don't slavishly follow those values without possible deviations - sometimes, a monster has, for example, a lower AC, but more HP - but most of the time, they're within those guidelines. That means that critters like rakshasa aren't the glass cannons they used to be.
Creative Director
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What the previous folks said is correct. (Guardinal and eladrin, both being made-up words, are not open content.)
A few other tidbits about the use of the word "azata" as the name, though.
We're trying VERY hard to name our outsider races after existing types of mythological races. In many cases, that's already done: devils, demons, daemons, archons, and angels are all from real-world mythology.
For the neutral good race, we chose to name them agathions since that word is from mythology and refers to an animal spirit; since the NG outsiders are animal-themed, it made perfect sense.
For the chaotic good race, we settled on azata as a corruption of the word Yazata. By dropping the Y from the word, we stayed close to the original sound of the word but also made it our own. Since it's so closely based on a real-world myth, it has a bit of "heft" to it that it might not otherwise have.
TANGENT!
On to the neutral races; we have inevitables for lawful neutral (these are open content thanks to the SRD), but nothing for chaotic neutral (since the slaadi are closed content). Our chaotic neutral outsider race is the proteans, a word also taken from mythology (from the greek god Proteus, god of the sea). Since the word "protean" actually means "able to change frequently" it fit perfectly with our race of chaotic form-unstable primeval monsters.
For the true neutral race, we've got aeons, which also have a mythological root. We haven't revealed much more about the aeons yet, though.
ALL of these races will be detailed in the upcoming Pathfinder Bestiary II.
First of all thanks for the replies. :-)
3. No. There is no such thing as LA in pathfinder. Instead the monster's level equivalency is its CR. If the monster is CR 7 then it is comparable to a level 7 character (and should be treated as such for playing it) no matter what it's hit dice are.
That could maybe work when the monster is taken straight out of the book and everybody starts at that level. Even then the Ghaele would be crazily powerful for a level 13 character with great ability scores, a lot of at-wills, full cleric spellcasting, fighter BAB, the ability to slay or frighten low-level NPC's by looking at them and a damage reduction that's almost as good as the one a paladin gets at level 20.
When used as a monster class they start with normal adventurer ability scores and add the boni as part of their monster class advancement, assuming that the standard monster has scores of 10 or 11. A level 20 Eladrin could have strength 32 without a single magic item.4. Their spell casting ability would increase if they take levels in the same class as they have spell casting power equivalency in (in this case cleric levels).
That's great news, even though it would concern me probably at the earliest at epic levels. I guess the same would work with prestige classes that advance divine spellcasting?
@ KaeYoss
A shame, I guess the Modrons are off-limits too, even though WotC will never use them again.:(
As Abe already said, the level adjustment system 3.5e had was done away with. It's up to you to determine whether you want to allow characters like this and at what effective level they have to start.
Well, as I wrote I want to convert the monster class from Savage Species, so you can start playing one as a normal level 1 character and it develops into a mature version of that monster. The number of levels a monster class had was determined by adding the number of HD and the Level Adjustment. The Eladrin Ghaele for example had 10 HD and a +10 LA. The class had 20 levels, you started practically as a cleric without turn undead or domains but a +4 to saves against poison, more skill points, good BAB and saves and got the 10 HD and the abilities slowly while leveling up to 20.
As for the power level: While the CR has remained the same, the stats have been changed to fit that CR better. The ghaele, for example, have a bit more than twice as many HP as the 3.5e version, their AC and saves are a lot better, they have better attacks, and while they lost one caster level, they got 3/day globe of invulnerability as a spell-like ability.
All in all, I call that a considerable boost.
Well, they also lost a few things like their Alter Self at-will or their passive Protection from Evil/Minor Globe of Invulnerability aura. Even though they get a +4 deflection bonus to AC, I haven't figured out from where. But I agree, they definitely aren't weaker. That makes it especially hard for me to think that the monster class should have fewer levels then before. But I don't think they're epic yet either, so I guess 20 level would still fit.
@ James Jacobs
Thanks for the interesting information. As a fan of old mythology (especially greek) it's always nice to see such things again in RPG's. I still have to adapt a bit to Azata, because the old Eladrin were for me always the elven equivalent to angels. It's bit weird for me that they are now generally chaotic good.;-)
They have holy aura as an aura effect, which is always active. That is what grants them (and their allies) the deflection bonus.
If you're evil, you also go blind if you attack a ghaele or his friends.
Using it as a character: They're basically a cleric, minus the domain powers, but with full BAB, great stats, a bunch of really great powers (like several defences, spell-like abilities, the works).
I guess I'd stretch it to take up all 20 levels. So for two levels, you get a HD with associated benefits (saves and so on) and cleric spellcasting and the next level you get some extras like more spell-like abilities, ability boosts, and so on. Repeat.
Yeah, I confused it with the Aura of Good paladins and clerics get. :D I realised my mistake when making the write-up and seeing that there was a DC attached to it.
If you like you could comment the complete write-up in the "Conversions"-section.