Barbarian - why no Profession?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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James Jacobs wrote:

Remember that in Pathfinder, the difference between a class skill and a non-class skill is not much more than a +3 bonus. If you want a barbarian goat herder, give him ranks in Profession (goat herder). A 10th level barbarian goat herder with a Wisdom 10 would have a +10 Goatherding check, while a 10th level rogue goat herder with a Wisdom 10 would have a +13. Really not that big of a deal. And if you really wanted your barbarian goat herder to gain that +3 bonus, there's plenty of ways to get it. Such as simply multiclassing 1 level into a class that has Profession as a class skill. Or taking Skill Focus (Profession [goat herder]).

The reason we didn't give barbarians the Profession skill comes down to the simple fact that you need to be in a civilization to have a Profession. If you're a barbarian, you don't need a job. You get what you want by making Survival checks and attack rolls.

I know this is a really old quote, but two things tickle my brain about it:

1- Rangers and (especially) Druids spend most of their time divorced from civilization. Rangers may be half in/half out, but Druids are wholly apart... Yet they still get a Profession Class skill. Lol.

and,

2- The first part of this argument, essentially saying "eh, it's just a +3 bonus, so what does it really matter?" is actually a VERY strong argument for just abolishing Class Skill bonuses entirely.
:)
After all, it's just a +3 - hardly worth getting worked up over.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
The idea behind a professional skill is to cover what other skill do not. Since just about any professional skill a barbarian is likely to take is covered by another skill it makes since that they don’t have professional skills as a class skill. Keep in mind the professional skill only gives the ability to make money with the skill. It does not actually give you any other abilities. So professional skill goat herder would not give you the ability to herd goats that would require animal handler which the barbarian does have

Except for "Profession: Sailor."

If you want to be good at piloting a ship, you definitely need Prof: Sailor. *nods*


Orfamay Quest wrote:

Except that "barbarian" is a job and a role, just as aristocrat, expert or adept is a job and a role. The people who become "adepts" may live in the same village as the people who become experts or the people who become commoners, but they're not the same people. You don't expect the village (expert) blacksmith to develop spellcasting skills.

And similarly, even if the Bear Clan has librarians -- which it may or may not, depending up on the local technology level -- those librarians are likely to be different people from the berzerkers.

Barbarian is not a job. That's pretty ridiculous. Aristocrat might have Profession (Noble), Commoner is not a job, farmer or miller is a job. Expert is not a job, blacksmith is a job. What do you expect every single member of a tribe society to be d12 warriors who rage? Do you think that everyone in a tribe would have the chaotic alignment.

Even in the flavour text it says that their are barbarians from civilisation, so why wouldn't a barbarian from a city do something like take ranks in profession (Soldier) or Profession (Sailor).

Even then, members of jobs can be classes other than expert and commoner. Are you saying that the brutish thug shouldn't be able to act as a bodyguard or soldier just because he's better at being a bodyguard and soldier than a warrior, that makes no sense, being a barbarian makes him better at his job.

Orfamay Quest wrote:


I'd start by looking at the class skills list. For example, you don't get Profession as a class skill, by design.

And then and sign of barbarism stops after looking at the class skill list... almost as if the class skill list is the only mechanic at all that seems to link barbarians with their sterotype fluff...

cnetarian wrote:
[If you check the class skills for barbarians you'll note that barbarians are the only class which doesn't have profession as a class skill. While the class description doesn't dictate any individual character's flavor, the barbarian is a mechanically inferior class for building a civilized character.

I know? That is the whole point of this thread after all.


Milo v3 wrote:
Even in the flavour text it says that their are barbarians from civilisation, so why wouldn't a barbarian from a city do something like take ranks in profession (Soldier) or Profession (Sailor).

Because he's a warrior of pure rage. If he wanted to be a professional soldier or sailor with a class skill bonus, he'd probably take a dip in another class. (Though there's probably a trait for it now.)

Obviously, there are other ways they could have made the barbarian class, but they made it this way, for reasonably reasonable reasons. It had to be something and it doesn't really matter either way, so now it is what it is.


Milo v3 wrote:


And then and sign of barbarism stops after looking at the class skill list... almost as if the class skill list is the only mechanic at all that seems to link barbarians with their sterotype fluff...

The rules are flexible enough that there is nothing which forces any character to match their class fluff, just rules which make them more efficient at being like their class fluff. A wizard can grab a two-handed sword, strap on some plate and charge into battle without ever using a single spell - it would be rather foolish since wizards aren't proficient with two-handed swords or plate, have half the hit points of a barbarian and have little in the way of class abilities to aid them in charging into battle, but the rules don't force wizards into wearing a bathrobe and using magic to twist the world to their liking. A barbarian can have an 18 int and act as a skill monkey while never using a single round of rage, or even engaging in combat, but the class isn't a good choice for that type of character. Rage itself is a major mechanic which drives barbarians to acting like their fluff, it significantly rewards barbarian characters who engage in combat as enraged killing machines.

Grand Lodge

The Speaker in Dreams wrote:
why would a barbarian not be able to have a job?

Class skills aren't restrictions, just areas that certain classes have bonuses in. Nothing is stopping your barbarian from putting skill ranks into Profession. Furthermore, you could easily get Profession as a class skill by spending a trait if you really wanted to be good at it. This is a common misconception of the 3.X skill system. "Being able to do something" is a lot different than "being naturally talented (or tangentially trained) at something," which is what the class skill system attempts to illustrate.

"Why can't my wizard wield a greatsword?" is a similar complaint. The answer is: "He can if he wants to, but he's going to have to allocate a bunch of feats/traits/attributes to do so effectively, and even then he's not going to be as good with it as a fighter. Also, making those sacrifices is going to make his spellcasting abilities suffer."

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