[Kingmaker, Spoilers] The Party Enters a Hex - Now What?


Kingmaker

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

I'd be interested in hearing anyone's play experience with Kingmaker, but also suggestions on how to run it.

First, let me start off with the bare bones way I think it would be run based upon the exploration rules:

1. PCs enter hex, 5% chance of random encounter.
1B. Landmarks are discovered.
2. PCs spend time exploring hex, 15% chance per day or night of an encounter.
2A. Standard Site's are discovered.
2B. Make a skill check for any Hidden Sites.

As I was looking through the wilderness rules, I reviewed the getting lost section, and it looks like (in theory) a lost check should be made every hour if visibility is reduced (which happens per se in forest, hills, moors or mountain terrain). There's a bit of a contradiction between the getting lost rules (which have a DC that varies based on terrain) and the Survival check (which has a fixed DC to avoid getting lost), but not a big deal.

I don't want to do a Survival check per hour, but I think I might do it per hex or per day in a hex. Once a party has explored a hex, they no longer need to make checks to avoid getting lost.


i made a party make cartography, geography etc roll to fully document an area to gain the full 400xp!

added bits of fluorish to hex description whether it was craggy hills etc
OR
hand player the narrative so they can add fluorish

will only make 'lost' rolls in deep wood, remote plains, swamps i think

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

thenovalord wrote:

i made a party make cartography, geography etc roll to fully document an area to gain the full 400xp!

How did you do that? Did they make a roll at the end of exploration? What happens if they fail? What's the DC?

Interested in hearing more...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

DC was 12, maybe 14 for a tricky hex

using appropraite knowledge, or prof: cartography skill

fail yielded only 300xp per hex,

Dark Archive

Sebastian wrote:
I don't want to do a Survival check per hour, but I think I might do it per hex or per day in a hex. Once a party has explored a hex, they no longer need to make checks to avoid getting lost.

I will be doing a survival check per hour/per 4 or 8 hours if:

Travel or explore by night
Travel during bad weather - Hvy Rain or Fog

Check frequency being based on actual hex terrain or combination of factors (bad terrain + bad weather = bad idea)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
thenovalord wrote:

DC was 12, maybe 14 for a tricky hex

using appropraite knowledge, or prof: cartography skill

fail yielded only 300xp per hex,

Can the players retry this check?

Perhaps after a certain period of time, or gaining another rank in the skill to pick up the extra 100xp?


no retry

game set up for win, but need a chance to fail...their map will be ok on a fail, but not perfect


how do you get lost if you don't know were your going in the first place? if your exploring i wouldn't role any lost checks at all. you can only get lost if you have a destination to get lost too. now if the players want to get back to say Oleg's they could get lost going back.


RunebladeX wrote:
how do you get lost if you don't know were your going in the first place? if your exploring i wouldn't role any lost checks at all. you can only get lost if you have a destination to get lost too. now if the players want to get back to say Oleg's they could get lost going back.

But by then they should have a map to help them track back to where they came from.


Guard wrote:

But by then they should have a map to help them track back to where they came from.

This.

Its also makes more sense. The party should be exploring hexes near Olegs at first and working their way outward further south from there. It fits well with the CRs of the encounters too, the further south they go, the harder the encounters get for the most part.

My group will likely track the initial bandits back to their camp, so Ill have em roll a Survival check on their way back to Olegs because the tracks will be a day older, maybe bad weather, etc. This will reinforce the need for them to put up some sort of trailmarkers (maybe chalk a tree) etc.

Other than that, Auxmaulous has a good formula...

Auxmaulous wrote:


I will be doing a survival check per hour/per 4 or 8 hours if:
Travel or explore by night
Travel during bad weather - Hvy Rain or Fog

Check frequency being based on actual hex terrain or combination of factors (bad terrain + bad weather = bad idea)

Jon Brazer Enterprises

RunebladeX wrote:
how do you get lost if you don't know were your going in the first place?

Player 1: Didn't we see that same gnarled tree before?

Player 2: I don't know, it looks the same as all the other trees we've seen for the past three hours.
Player 3: Yea, its the same tree. I recognize the stench of owlbear poop coming from it.
Player 4: That's not owlbear poop you are smelling, it just bear poop. And it definitely is not the same tree, we passed that tree 5 miles ago.
Player 3: Hey, who's the one with the gnome nose here? Me. I can tell the difference between bear poop and owlbear poop.
Player 4: And who is the one with the track feat? Me. I know we have not doubled back. Its 5 miles, that way.
Player 2: Can you two make a little more noise, please? Maybe you'll attract something that I can kill.
Player 1: Enough you guys. Let me see the map.
Thog: Thog like sprinkles.
Player 4: And what the hell is Thog doing here? Didn't we leave him back in cliffport? Nodwick, when did Thog get here?


you cant get lost in the woods just wandering around? tell that to the hikers and campers that go missing every year.

Sovereign Court

I thought it was 100XP per explored hex? And incidentally, is that per PC or split between the party?


Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
I thought it was 100XP per explored hex? And incidentally, is that per PC or split between the party?

good spot! hmm, how do i recoup the overspend i gave them!!

"Rewards for Exploration
With each hex of terrain fully explored, the party earns 100
experience points"

....guess i wont make them roll cartography et al afterall.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Yup; for each hex the PCs explore, the party earns 100 xp. It's not a lot, but there ARE about 280 hexes to explore in all, so that adds up. If a party of 4 does nothing but explore hexes and never fights monsters or completes quests, they could, in theory, earn 28,000 XP, for 7,000 XP apiece (assuming a 4 PC party) which, on the medium track, would get them most of the way through 3rd level.

So it's a small amount, but it's not insignificant at all. And it's there to encourage the PCs to explore and fill in their map. I've used this system several times in home games, and every time the players get a big kick out of the double reward of seeing their map fill in AND getting XP for it.

Making the players roll checks to accurately map the area is fun, though; I'd actually treat it as a Craft (cartography) check and let the PC who was mapping sell the maps when he's done for cash. I wouldn't tie the check to exploring though, since you can thoroughly explore an area and find all its secrets and still produce a really lame map.

Sovereign Court

James Jacobs wrote:
Making the players roll checks to accurately map the area is fun, though; I'd actually treat it as a Craft (cartography) check [snip]

...and yet again a saddening blow to the already clinically depressed Knowledge: Geography!!! :(......

:P


I've been playing it fairly loose. The players are on horseback and take their time, no foul weather yet (though that may change soon), and so far they haven't rolled low on the survival checks. They have a rough old map of the region and are basing their exploration on that following a designated path on each outing. At the start of the campaign the we all agreed to avoid XP given that it's an AP and unless they skip a certain number of things I more or less follow the advancement guide and level them when I think it's appropriate. That was their idea btw so they seem happy with it provided too much time doesn't pass between leveling.

So our standard thing is I'll role for random encounters after they show me what sort of track they with to follow so I have them ready ahead of time. Upon entering a new hex the ranger makes a survival check (often with assistance from one of the other players who decided to take survival) and the wizard of the group is handling the cartography. They've been allowed to take 10 for now but soon I'll have weather start requiring rolls here and there. If there's something hidden within a square I'll often make a secret perception roll and see if the PC's find it and narrate accordingly. At the end of the hex there's a survival check to set camp good checks might hinder a random encounter (if I decided to have it hit while they camped) or some other effect if I'm so inclined. Bad checks mean rough sleeping.

Repeat the next day and hex occasionally shaking things up to keep things from growing stagnant.


DM Doom wrote:

snippage

Repeat the next day and hex occasionally shaking things up to keep things from growing stagnant.

i think the Gm has to add bits flourish to keep things interesting, or let the players add in bits n pieces

before each session I have been coming up with a few bullet point ideas for what might be in the next hex section so it doesnt get 'dull'....so sort of non-random, random encouters so if they roll troll, shambler, too many wolves, etc i have something fresh to say

what i ahve enjoyed is that i think they have already had a dozen maybe random encounters, but they have been hints at whats out there, social encounters with hunters, kobolds, etc, mini skill challeneges due to terrain, weather, and only 3 'fights'

mod is going really well, well done Paizo

Liberty's Edge

thenovalord wrote:


what i ahve enjoyed is that i think they have already had a dozen maybe random encounters, but they have been hints at whats out there, social encounters with hunters, kobolds, etc, mini skill challeneges due to terrain, weather, and only 3 'fights'

mod is going really well, well done Paizo

You know this also inspires a new thread I think. We have one devoted to adding additional quests etc.

What about a new thread that gives good examples of "random encounters"

Instead of the cliche "A wolf in the woods comes upon you baring it's teeth ready for a meal" Roll initiative.....

how about:

Spoiler:

1) You come upon a snarling wolf - it's left rear leg is caught in a bear trap and significantly wounded.......

OR

Spoiler:

2) you cross a peak in the hills and see two large hulking forms (trolls) arguing and agressively shoving each other over the rights of a recently killed elk.

With the community here all contributing to making suggested flavorful random encounters, there's no telling how many we could create to share and never allow anything to get overused or stale.

Robert

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Excellent idea. How about:

Spoiler:
You hear a bone-rattling screech coming from about a hundred yards ahead. Looking in the far distance you can see the underbrush rattle and the branches of a young alder tree begin to shake. Rising from the brush you see the head of an enormous owl, apparently standing on the ground. It seems to be rubbing its back against the tree, showing its furred shoulders and massive paws as it reaches up to bend the tree down, the better to continue its scratching.


Or this one:

The River Elk

Spoiler:

Challenge Rating 4
The heroes encounter a small herd of river elk lead by a huge bull. Although River Elk are generally peaceful, the bull is quite territorial and will threaten and posture towards the most impressive of the characters. Although the Elk bull will respond aggressively to encroachment on its territory the females of the herd will not attack unless attacked before. The Elk are found in one of the hexes along the Thorn River.

Encounter:

The heroes spot a group of river Elk. A small herd of 4 adult females, 1 large bull and 1 young. When rolling a knowledge (nature) check against DC 15 the heroes recognize them as River Elk and know about the territorial nature of the River Elk Bull. The bull has an initial attitude of unfriendly and tries to scare off the heroes by posturing and a mock charge…..and will shift to hostile if the heroes don’t quickly retreat. However Druids or Rangers can try to shift the animal’s attitude to indifferent by making a wild empathy check against a DC of 19.

Aftermath:
If the Bull is killed the herd will try to flee, however they do so slowly and try to defend the young. If the players attack they will defend themselves but will eventually try to run. If a Ranger or Druid manages to shift the attitude of the bull to indifferent he loses interest and wanders off together with the herd. If the characters resolve this situation peacefully they receive XP equal to those received for defeating the Bull.


Thylacine

After either a downpour or minor earth tremor,

Spoiler:
party come across a thylacine mated pair, whose pups have fallen/been washed down a fissure..they are quite aggressive and stressed....


the trapped trapper

you hear a crying and wailing and come into an area of low vegetation, that almosts seems more sentient than normal thicket. In its centre, a rough looking man is frantically grabbing at the roots trying to get out....

Spoiler:
. Ok, need to think fast. The trapped trapper is actually a werewolf and getting very stressed he has been entangled by a grig a few minutes ago

within a round of two the man will turn into a werewolf, and a round or two later the spell will run out.....


the gardeners

Hear running water in the distance and (with a good perception) some whistling. Enter a small glade containing a number of small ponds, one of which has a nice rockery with water flowing over it. A couple of backpacks are nearby with 2 broken fishing rods, and 3 longbows. Two unkempt men,

Spoiler:
see bandits page 12
tidy up around the pools edge.....they look quite bizzare in that they wear hoods and cloaks made out of pondweed?

Spoiler:
. A nixie from the pools has charmed both these interlopers before heading off to deeper water. Assume the spell has 5 to 10 minutes left! the third bandit is underwater, again tidying but as he is under a water breath spell from the nixie he can watch events safely. If his allies are attacked he will aid them....his charm spell will run out first.

Ok, the nixie charmed all three bandits luckily, but as it has DR/5 cold iron, its pretty much impervious to the bandits weapons and we can assume it totally surprised the bandits


Bed Bugs

Assume its the middle watch and with a Perc of only 10, the folk on watch here a disturbance 50ft or so away....maybe a low rattle?, scampering??

Spoiler:
with a perception of 15, and low light vision, can see/hear movement, hissing, noise of scales. if the party approach the disturbance moves away somewhat

a hissing centipede and 2 medium centipedes are being used by a hidden mite to lure the party away from their camp. If attacked the centipedes will try and be defensive, maybe hide in cover etc to stay alive as long as possible....give just a minimal xp for defeating them.

.....meanwhile the other d8-1 mites are helping themselves to the parties camp, and fouling in their beds, food etc....

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

I love the encounter ideas and was planning to do something similar myself. Mine aren't nearly as well detailed/outlined as above, but the basic ideas I have are:

Spoiler:

Similar to the bedbugs encounter above, I am planning on having the party targeted by goblins (I've decided to use them instead of kobolds). The goblins will sneak in during the night and try to kill the party's horses and steal whatever they can. In fact, most encounters with goblins will be theft-based rather than combat based. Hp heal, theft drives players bonkers (as will killing their horses).

The other thing I'm planning on doing is putting Tuskgutter and the bear encountered in the Temple of the Elk on the random encounter table around their home base hexes. Tuskgutter will likely lead a pack of wild boars who will do a single hit-and-run charge through the party lines before continuing on their way.


Novalord, you may find this amusing, but re: your gardeners description-

read Page 17 of Kingmaker Part II... uncanny isn't it?


Light Dragon wrote:

Novalord, you may find this amusing, but re: your gardeners description-

read Page 17 of Kingmaker Part II... uncanny isn't it?

where are my royalties!!


On getting lost: If it's a possibility, I just have the players roll once. Rolling every hour would be boring and obnoxious. Maybe add +2 to the DC since it's once a day rather than once an hour.

What do the players see: How about the 5% chance of a random monster is actually an ENCOUNTER with that monster. If you don't get the 5% the players find something to do with the encounter but aren't actually encountering it. So if you roll the trolls for random encounter and get the 5%, the players are fighting the trolls. If they don't get the 5% then they find signs of the trolls: Scat, eaten animals, tracks, see the trolls off at a distance, find their cave, etc. That way *something* is happening in every hex they explore.

Grand Lodge

DMFTodd wrote:

On getting lost: If it's a possibility, I just have the players roll once. Rolling every hour would be boring and obnoxious. Maybe add +2 to the DC since it's once a day rather than once an hour.

What do the players see: How about the 5% chance of a random monster is actually an ENCOUNTER with that monster. If you don't get the 5% the players find something to do with the encounter but aren't actually encountering it. So if you roll the trolls for random encounter and get the 5%, the players are fighting the trolls. If they don't get the 5% then they find signs of the trolls: Scat, eaten animals, tracks, see the trolls off at a distance, find their cave, etc. That way *something* is happening in every hex they explore.

thnx for resurrecting this thread.

Grand Lodge

You can definitely get lost while exploring. If you're constantly going in circles, you're never going to get that hex explored. It's also rather impossible to draw a realistic map if you don't know where you are in relation to everything else.

Getting lost is extremely easy when traveling through trackless terrain. I'm definitely going to be using the survival checks to add to the realism.


Agreed. Survival checks make it more realistic, but once/hour just makes it tedious. On the other hand the DC is 15 in most cases, so I'd assume someone takes ten to avoid getting lost - and if necessary the others are taking ten on aiding that one character.
So I'd just keep track on their survival modifier and what modifiers you impose of the DC and only ask for rolls if taking 10 isn't enough - or simply have them get lost without roll and require a roll to get them back on track. Although camping until there's better weather would probably be a better choice.

Don't forget, whenever the party runs away you should make a check to see if they get lost; or when they want to get somewhere fast.


*cracks fingers...* Necrromancy time.

So, Party enters a Hex. First? I check for Landmarks, rivers and forest edges (stuff that is rather obvious). Then I check time, as they are on horseback. Finally, they may decide to either explore, have a night's rest or try to get somewhere else.

This is when I do my random encounter checks. Last time I had the following encounters:

While resting in the same Hex as the Rickety Bridge (not exploring):

Spoiler:
During the last watch, the guard almost napped in (barely made his fortitude save). A rustling sound next to his feet awoke him fully in the early morning. It was a Brush Thylacine (p86) that was feasting on the last night's dinner, running away as soon as the guard put logs onto the fire.

Next night, they found a really nice sleeping spot at thorn river.

Spoiler:
The first watch failed their pretty easy fortitude saves to stay awake: both had a 1! So they slept in. The others failed their "lucky rolls" to wake up on their shift. So none of them was awake when the encounter of the night came: a big and hungry Owlbear. It ripped apart one of the pack-saddles and fed on its contents: 148 rations were lost, leaving the party with rations for pretty much exactly 1 week instead of a 5 weeks.

(they debated like 20 minutes if they should hunt the owlbear down or if it would kill them)

Next morning, they decided to want to travel towards Olegs again, exploring the hex on the way. They arrived in it...

Spoiler:
I told them their horses were uneasy. They spotted (perception DC 15) the tracks of a large canine in a wet patch, but failed to identify (K: nature DC 18) it as the Worg it was. They were pretty careful in describing how they explored the hex though.

4 hours later, they encountered a little shrub to their left and some patches of long grass in the front. Moments later the single Worg appeared from the long grass (and the party charged it, slaying it).


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I had a d12 table of minor skill checks when exploring a hex. From that, some interesting features emerged. The PCs kept getting a Kn (geography) check SE of Oleg's that developed into a series of ravines that the party eventually just stopped going through. Another Plains hex by the barbarian cairn got developed into fields of wild violet whinnis, a less harmful variant of blue whinnis that only affected them in large doses (such as travelling through a field of them or setting up camp, and at a lower DC. A hill hex near Nettles Crossing kept coming up with enough positive rolls (roots and berries for rations, herbs to replenish first aid bags, alchemical reagents, etc, that the group made sure to pass through every time.


Quote:
As I was looking through the wilderness rules, I reviewed the getting lost section, and it looks like (in theory) a lost check should be made every hour if visibility is reduced (which happens per se in forest, hills, moors or mountain terrain). There's a bit of a contradiction between the getting lost rules (which have a DC that varies based on terrain) and the Survival check (which has a fixed DC to avoid getting lost), but not a big deal

No, the rules talk about conditions that reduce visibility, not the visibility on the terrain by itself. So we got things like rain, fog, night, dust and sand storms, snow, and so on.

The visibility on a forest is not even dim light, but bright light.

We have the following view distances inside a forest:

Quote:


In a sparse forest, the maximum distance at which a Spot check for detecting the nearby presence of others can succeed is 3d6×10 feet. In a medium forest, this distance is 2d8×10 feet, and in a dense forest it is 2d6×10 feet.

So even in a dense forest, the party probably will see enough ahead of them so they don't get lost.

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