Changes (Dresden Files) - Jim Butcher: Are you currently reading it? [spoilers]


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Scarab Sages

I'm on Chapter 34...
Ok... Daaaaaaaaaaam is Harry is in a messed up position!
I was really hoping that

Spoiler:
He wasn't going to kill that guy to become the Winter Knight.
I kept thinking something was going to happen, like Father Fornel coming in and waking him at the last moment.
I'm really curious to see how he comes out of this. With all the stuff that has happened to him... wow.
Spoiler:
I am glad that Butters didn't die, which was a surprise too.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

Finished it already. Good book. ;)

Liberty's Edge

Finished it this morning. Really liked it

Spoiler:
I've been waiting for the time that Harry would have to choose whether or not he would accept one of the offers on the table from one of the greater powers. I was especially pleased that he considered Lasciel, as I would really like to see Harry try to fully redeem her, not just the echo that he had in his head for a while).

I was annoyed at the cliffhanger at the end tho. This is the first time that there has been a deliberate cliffhanger in the Dresden books, and I find it wholely unacceptable that I'll have to wait a year for the next volume. I demand compensation (or at least the first chapter of the next book).

Scarab Sages

Yeah, I agree with you Robert. I loved that plotline with the 'echo'.

OOO!:
Odin and the ravens!!! That rocked! Modern Odin is the MAN!

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Still making my way through it. I do like how he's cut off from the

Spoiler:
White council, Grey council, and Ivy can't help
It's good for thinking of a high level character being unable to tap all those resources for an adventure.


I felt it was one of the worst of the series.

Scarab Sages

Knoq Nixoy wrote:
I felt it was one of the worst of the series.

How so?


Finished it on Tuesday. Really unhappy about the cliffhanger ending. Otherwise pretty enjoyable. I'll be interested in seeing where the series goes from here.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

I didn't mind the cliffhanger. Interesting book. Not completely sure how I feel about it yet (just finished it 5 minutes ago), but liked it better than the last two books. Not that I disliked those two, but I found the writing in Turncoat fairly uneven.

Scarab Sages

Finished last night. I liked it.
Dig me some

Spoiler:
Odin.

Being a recent father of a little girl it struck me pretty close to home and I'm not sure how I feel about what happened to the Maggie's mom and weather Harry is at 'fault'. Yeah, it was messed up but I was expecting someone else to end up on the altar (with the same results).

Great to see Bob involved and Murphy! Woooo!
Sanya is more of a character to me now, as opposed to an 'extra'.

Scarab Sages

I'm looking forward to the RPG.
(It will take some time to get through the PDFs but they'll keep me busy until the hard back arrive.)

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Knoq Nixoy wrote:
I felt it was one of the worst of the series.

I know people who hate Full Moon, but it was one of my favorites.

Dark Archive

I've read it some days before it was officially published, since I am translator of Dresden Files to my native tongue. I am a little disappointed. It seems to me that Jim tried to tie a lot of loose threads and to close a chapter of Harry's life in order to begin a new one. This book is kinda a "second part in a trilogy" - it serves to get the readers to the next set of books. I am by far more interested to see what will be the successor of Alera books.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Scipion del Ferro wrote:
I know people who hate Full Moon, but it was one of my favorites.

Fool Moon and Proven Guilty are my own picks for worst in the series. Fool Moon because it is way too predictable and just generally not as well-written as the others, Proven Guilty because it is so silly.


So, read it, liked it... wow loved the cliffhanger ending.

Is there going to be the next in the series?

'Cause that would be a clean wrap-up of the series and i liked the afterword where Butcher hocks his newer series as if this one has finished.

Sovereign Court

I'm waiting to read it on the train on Sunday, but dotting for later.

I'm not sure about the change in the naming convention though...

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Not familiar with the naming convention change.

Spoiler:
Mouse's lines rock! "I live with a Wizard. I cheat."
I agree that there was a lot of wrapping up of plotlines. This didn't bother me as much, since it seemed a logical end. That Thomas' corruption seemed to be a non-issue bothered me.

Liberty's Edge

DSXMachina wrote:


Is there going to be the next in the series?

'Cause that would be a clean wrap-up of the series and i liked the afterword where Butcher hocks his newer series as if this one has finished.

Spoiler:
Yes, there is more (many more). The next book already has a title and will be out next spring. The title? "Ghost Story"
The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Supposedly 20-21 books and a trilogy to wrap it up. So we're about halfway.

There's a book of short stories (mostly reprints from anthologies, I've only got two of them myself) coming out this fall. Including a story from Karrin's perspective 45 minutes after the end of Changes.


Man, did he not joke when he named that book.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Man that ending was just plain mean. I wouldn't say it was a massive cliffhanger more like the ending of Small Favors

Spoiler:
I wonder who the chicks voice was. Could be Lasciel, Margaret, Lea, or Mab.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

I do a lot of work on the Dresden Wiki. Changes, whoa. HE lost just about everything he couldn't carry around, and he lost most of that too.

No more Mouse. I'm gonna miss that dog. (sniff)

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Spoiler:
Well Mouse is just with Molly. I doubt we've seen last of him. He's too awesome of a character. I got a feeling Ol' Nick is gonna be the big baddie of the next book. Just something about the way Harry listed off the different sources of power he could come across.

Sovereign Court

Spoiler:
Mouse was with Molly last we heard, but Harry mentioned that he was going to send him to look after Maggie.

As for the voice and the light at the end... I'm not sure, I can't even figure out who shot him at the moment.

Matthew Morris wrote:
Not familiar with the naming convention change.

The titles up until now have been two words, each of the same length, and from what Robert says, the next book will be back to that pattern.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Really spoilery spoilers:
I kept expecting him to call Lash's coin to his hand and just go nuts, it really seemed like his only option to counter the Red Kings thousands of years of experience. I totally didn't see the Grey Council showing up to balance the tables. Lea's pretty cool when she's not trying to kill Harry.


Is changes New; hardcover? when did it come out; sheesh; whats the premise; got my tights in a wad...how did I miss this; I dont know if I have read changes or not; ack. Jim Butcher needs to talk to the peeps who do his books jackets and inside cover because we really need a convient list of books he has written and order of the series.

well...off to jim's site to see if this is new or if I already read it.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

There was an appalling lack of Gruff in this book. ;-)

The big question is:

Spoiler:

Who fired the shot?

My theory: Fix, the Summer Knight, terrified at the change in the power balance between the Fae Courts.

Who's your perp?

Scarab Sages

I hope that the pattern changes in the next books...
Harry finds a problem.
Harry gets hurt while investigating the problem.
Harry pulls a 'win' out of his butt. (lucky or some guardian angel)

and I think Harry's mom is still alive. (yeah, I said it.)

I was thinking that Harry getting shot was a 'welcome to the club' from Mab. He has to 'die' to get his full membership.

Love that Toot was in half blue... :)


Scipion del Ferro wrote:
Knoq Nixoy wrote:
I felt it was one of the worst of the series.
I know people who hate Full Moon, but it was one of my favorites.

+1 ^5

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Valegrim wrote:

Is changes New; hardcover? when did it come out; sheesh; whats the premise; got my tights in a wad...how did I miss this; I dont know if I have read changes or not; ack. Jim Butcher needs to talk to the peeps who do his books jackets and inside cover because we really need a convient list of books he has written and order of the series.

well...off to jim's site to see if this is new or if I already read it.

One week old today. So pretty darned new.

Sovereign Court

Hmm... I'm trying to remember which characters know that Harry has Bob's skull,

Spoiler:
from the exchange between Molly and Thomas about Bob, it seems that she doesn't know about him... does anyone remember where Harry decides not to tell her?


My perp (sort of):

Spoiler:
Didn't the M.O. at the end match how Kincaid described to Dresden how he would go about it? And earlier in the book, Butcher reminded the reader about Kincaid's strategy and how Dresden thought it effective.

That being said, I think it's a red herring ie. we're meant to suspect Kincaid, but it's actually someone else. So I actually have no idea who did it.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Spoiler:

No, it's not Kincaid, because it wasn't a headshot and Harry isn't dead. Kincaid's a pro. And he probably would have used something big enough that a torso shot would have been a kill too.

I'm guessing Fix, who's still an amateur. A welcoming kiss from the Summer Court.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Spoiler:
Fix fits the bill. Perhaps the only major power to be actively looking for Harry at the moment would be Summer. Makes sense that Fix wouldn't aim at his head and guff it up since I'm sure he still considers Harry a friend deep down.

We know it's not the Eebs or he would have been shot several more times (if they got free of the Erlking). I'm pretty sure Nick wouldn't try an assassination unless he was firing Lashiel's coin at Harry with a sling shot.

I still gotta say that was a pretty ingenious way to get rid of the Red Court, and I say good riddance, normal bloody sucker vampires have been done to death lately. Bring on more Black Court, more denarians, heck I want to see the Jade Court show their faces and an entire book explaining Mouse.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Spoiler:

Personally, I have two potential theories for the ending shot.

One; it's Lara. Thomas seems to be playing ball, and Harry just proved that he can be a threat to Thomas. So, she decides to take him out to eliminate that threat. And she'd be the kind to use Kincaid's method, too.

Two; Black Council. Harry kind of ruined Cristos' show in Edinburgh, and with all of Harry's supporters (mostly the younger wardens) being imprisoned or 'disappeared', it seems that they're trying to eliminate that threat. The gunshot makes it seem less likely that this is the case--but then, maybe they decided to follow the laws of magic on this one.

I don't think it's Kincaid--the red herring is calling out too strongly for that. And I just can't see Summer (anyone in Summer) taking the shot--they know for a fact that the balance needs to be maintained.


Wow.
I Officially need to stop reading this thread until I get my hands on the book! ;)

But it sounds like the general consensus is that it's a good book, but has a cliffhanger ending? Where are you getting your information about 'Starting a new chapter in Harry's life' (IE= the next 10 books) stuff from?

Can't wait to read it! I've been a big fan since I picked up my first Dresden novel. And I really liked the Alera series too! I think I just really like the way that Butcher writes. Both his prose and sense of humor I find to be very engaging.

Can't wait to read it! (Heck, already can't wait till the next one!)


Read it, liked it, looking forward to the next one (yeah, I know).

Haven't tried his fantasy series, which is where his heart seems to be. Anyone have any thoughts on it?

Liberty's Edge

bugleyman wrote:

Read it, liked it, looking forward to the next one (yeah, I know).

Haven't tried his fantasy series, which is where his heart seems to be. Anyone have any thoughts on it?

Haven't read it, but from what I understand it has come to an end. The readership numbers for it weren't close to the Dresden novels and the publisher didn't ask for another one. He is going to start work on a Science Fiction series to alternate with Dresden to prevent burn-out.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Robert Little wrote:
Haven't read it, but from what I understand it has come to an end. The readership numbers for it weren't close to the Dresden novels and the publisher didn't ask for another one. He is going to start work on a Science Fiction series to alternate with Dresden to prevent burn-out.

I've read it, and it certainly seemed like it finished because it was done, not because he couldn't get the publisher to bite for more. It was a big enough deal to get hardcover printings, and the naming progression of the series suggests it has exactly as many books as it was always meant to (wikipedia confirms this, that it was intended from the start as a 6 book series, but originally sold as a trilogy).

The last book hit #7 on the NYT best sellers list, which is a solid performance.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Ragadolf wrote:
But it sounds like the general consensus is that it's a good book, but has a cliffhanger ending? Where are you getting your information about 'Starting a new chapter in Harry's life' (IE= the next 10 books) stuff from?

Spoiler:

The overall plot of the story is wrapped up. Everything that starts is finished in the book except one thing that happens at the very end. I think it's less of a cliffhanger and more of a "Will our Duke boys make this jump? You'll find out when we return!" Similar to how Michael was left hanging at the end of Small Favors.

You really have to read the book to realize why this book symbolizes change. From the first sentence to the last, everything has changed. It's a whole new ball game.

Favorite Part:
The entire scene is Mac's pub. It was just profound.


Calixymenthillian wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Matthew Morris wrote:
Not familiar with the naming convention change.
The titles up until now have been two words, each of the same length, and from what Robert says, the next book will be back to that pattern.

More importantly, it was usually some wordplay - when the book was called Grave Peril, you could expect undead involvement, for example.

Still, Changes was named so aptly - maybe if he had called it Things Change or something like that, but still! What didn't change in the book?


My guesses for the cliffhanger...

Spoiler:

... shooter:

It definitely wasn't Kincaid. He's a pro in every way. Meaning that if he had done it, the book would have ended mid-narration because Harry's brain would have been splattered all over the boat. He also has no real reason to kill Dresden.

I don't think it was anyone from Summer, either. Harry might be powerful, but he has a conscience, so while he might be technically capable of a lot, there's stuff he won't do. Even if he's under Mab's influence, he's still Dresden. He's better than his predecessor.

Might be the Black Council. They surely know he's a threat, and they might have decided to get him out of the picture in a more direct way.

One of the other Vampire Courts is a possibility, too, I guess. He still has a nemesis in the Black Court. I wouldn't say White Court, though, since Lara might prefer to minipulate him to sic him on her enemies. She might think that with Thomas, she has the right tool to manipulate him.

One of the more likely possiblities is some Red Court legacy. Even though the Eebs should be dead, along with every other Red, they might have put a hit on him before they went poof.

But I think that Winter is most likely. Maybe it was Mab, who had him shot - not dead, but made sure he fell into the cold, cold water, as some sort of initiation. Or maybe someone, maybe Maeve, felt jealous or threatened or just like it.

Sovereign Court

bugleyman wrote:

Read it, liked it, looking forward to the next one (yeah, I know).

Haven't tried his fantasy series, which is where his heart seems to be. Anyone have any thoughts on it?

I've started the first book of that series, but it's not really grabbing me in the same way The Dresden Files does.

KaeYoss wrote:
More importantly, it was usually some wordplay - when the book was called Grave Peril, you could expect undead involvement, for example.

True.

Spoiler:
If the next book is indeed called Ghost Story, then it might be that Harry does die as a result of the shooting... but I'm not sure how he'd be brought back (unless it's the result of the same sort of briefly dead wackiness that resulted in a ghost Harry appearing in Grave Peril(?)—but there was lots of ambient magic going on with that), maybe the next book is going to be ghost written by another character on his behalf.


Calixymenthillian wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:
More importantly, it was usually some wordplay - when the book was called Grave Peril, you could expect undead involvement, for example.

True.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I guess he stays dead for the next book and is then brought back by Mab. I won't put that sort of power beyond here. Or he's just "mostly-dead"

Sovereign Court

KaeYoss wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Maybe, but if she was able to do that, then why did she need him to guarantee that he wouldn't kill himself to avoid taking up the mantle of Winter Knight?

Calixymenthillian wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

The fey and their rules. Maybe you cannot retrieve a suicide. Or it's the mostly-dead deal

Liberty's Edge

Just an FYI...

The collection of short stories will be out in November and is called "Side Jobs". It will collect the following:
"Restoration of Faith"
"Vignette"
"Something Borrowed" -- from My Big Fat Supernatural Wedding
"It's My Birthday Too" -- from Many Bloody Returns
"Heorot" -- from My Big Fat Supernatural Honeymoon
"Day Off" -- from Blood Lite
"Backup" -- novelette from Thomas' POV, originally published by Subterranean Press
"The Warrior" -- novelette from Mean Streets
"Last Call" -- from Strange Brew
"Love Hurts" -- from Songs of Love and Death
And new material, including a story from Karrin Murphy's point-of-view 45 minutes after the end of Changes.

Sovereign Court

KaeYoss wrote:
The fey and their rules. Maybe you cannot retrieve a suicide. Or it's the mostly-dead deal

I reckon it must be the mostly dead dealy, otherwise I imagine

Spoiler:
Titania would have been able to bring back the Summer Knight... unless there are other unknown rules preventing that—argh, I hate rules I don't know.

Robert Little wrote:
Just an FYI...

Excellent news! Especially Backup, it's been impossible to find on its own.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

I have Backup ^_^ short book, but expensive.


my library has a copy of Backup, it was a VERY good story!

AND I just put my name on the list to make sure I get to read the library's copy of CHanges next! :)

Can't wait!

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