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This thread is for rules clarifications and questions that specifically relate to how Pathfinder Society Organized Play functions after the 2.2 Guide update on 4/6/10.
This thread has four rules:
1. Please read the 2.0 FAQ thread first to see if your question has already been answered.
2. Then read the 2.1 FAQ thread to see if your question has already been answered.
3. Then read the 2.2 version of the Guide to see if your question is answered there.
4. Then post your question as plainly and succinctly as possible.
DO NOT:
* Post generic Pathfinder RPG questions. Your question must apply to the rules of Pathfinder Society Organized Play. If you wish to ask a rules question about PRPG but unrelated to the Society, then click here and ask.
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Hi Josh.... I'm hitting an annoying problem: Downloading the faq. Above it shows as an HTML document.... I had this problem with the earlier versions, and don;t recall how I got around it----I'm guessing I'm not the only one with this issue. Their is no obvious "FAQ" area in the list of areas to the left for browse sites. It's not showing in the downloads area. Can you please hyperlink the documents as PDF's or word documents? I'm getting very annoyed with wasting time on this detail with every FAQ version release, but am a huge fan of pathfinder and all the changes you have done and are doing. Thanks for any help.
Pathfinder Fin
"assassin"/problem solver of Quadira.
11th Rogue...
The intent is that your bard can buy them and use them as bard scrolls, but he has to pay the wizard/cleric/druid cost for item creation. As I see it, the reason for making the prices even across the board by using one creation lists for scrolls is to maintain balance across an org play environment that consists of many different players/GM from many different home game house rules systems. As an example, when the conversation about low-cost lesser restoration scrolls started, very few people even thought that was correct rules-wise. I'd rather knock out these minor corner cases to avoid the confusion, rather than keep the confusion in place.
Now I know you disagree with me, but this isn't something I plan to budge on.
That said, I do not want the result of this decision to be that bards or paladins have to have UMD to use scrolls off their spell list. They do not have to. They do need to purchase them at wizard/cleric/druid prices, however.
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We really ought to get an indexed FAQ document of these official questions answers together someday. I understand wanting people to read up first before asking questions which have already been answered, but for newcomers asking them to read 1000+ posts through three different versions of the organized play rules before asking something seem increasingly unrealistic as these threads continue to expand.
I see people above referring to downloading an FAQ, but I am unaware of one existing. From what I understand there are the three threads for FAQ but the organized play document is the only downloadable item for rules.
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How will the new 2.2 Organized Play Rules interact with the Phase 2 and 3 changes? A lot of the changes I see to the new rules reflect Phase 1. Will you have to put out 2.3 and 2.4 OP Rules to reflect Phases 2 and 3?
BTW - I like the changes. I play a Bard so scrolls will cost me a little more now, but I think the consistency in scroll pricing is more important.
I think I've said it three or four times now, but yes, I get that you disagree with me. :-)
I shall reconsider the wording.
How will the new 2.2 Organized Play Rules interact with the Phase 2 and 3 changes? A lot of the changes I see to the new rules reflect Phase 1. Will you have to put out 2.3 and 2.4 OP Rules to reflect Phases 2 and 3?
BTW - I like the changes. I play a Bard so scrolls will cost me a little more now, but I think the consistency in scroll pricing is more important.
There will be a 2.3 etc. and even without the Phase 2 and 3 changes there would be one anyway as we add additional items to Chapter 13.
We really ought to get an indexed FAQ document of these official questions answers together someday.
In theory, the FAQ threads are what generate the feedback from which I adjust and "fix" the Guide. Were someone to just read the Guide and then ask their question here, they would likely be fine since, in theory, the Guide is answering the questions from FAQ 2.0 and FAQ 2.1.
The Guide is our FAQ--it's a living document that evolves with the campaign.
That was exactly what was intended and I shall review the language to insure I have not indicated to everyone that bards, for example, can no longer buy arcane scrolls of cure light wounds.
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Josh, you've stated your position and that you're sticking with it. I appreciate that.
However, I'd like to add my complaint to some of the discussion above. Organized play rules are least complicated when they adhere, whenever possible, to the existing rules set. Sometimes it's necessary to cut some rules (like Leadership and awaken), and I understand that. But "fixing" unpopular rules in the existing rules set--that is, making changes rather than simple deletions--hinders organized play.
Changes like this raise the barrier of entry to the organized play game.
Sure, many people don't realize that a wand of lesser restoration or a wand of resist energy is only 750 gp, but that's the rules; they'll learn. Many people also don't realize that dodge bonuses apply to CMD, either, but they'll learn that, too. These aren't obscure rules, and should be incorporated with the other rules into the organized play environment.
I'm worried that someone coming from a Pathfinder home game will want to buy a wand of lesser restoration and pay 750 gp, just like the rules say. When told they cost 4,500 gp in PFS, he'll ask, "why is that different?" And none of the answers are good ones.
* Because some people don't expect to pay that little for that wand? Then they just don't know the rules, and should be educated.
* Because the cost of these items aren't clear? There are a lot of unclear items in 550 pages of rules, but learning them is part of the game.
* Because it's too good for the cost? That's a problem with the ruleset, then, and an organized play environment is a bad place to start "fixing" the RPG's silly rules (just ask the Living Greyhawk powers-that-be).
Compare this to someone coming from a Pathfinder home game who wants to take the Leadership feat. When told it isn't available and he asks, "why is that different?" there is a clear answer of "because it slows down play in a timed play environment, and can cause one player to command double the attention of another, at the expense of the other player, which is unfair." Okay, fair enough, and a simple rules elimination--rather than rules change--affects this.
You've already seen one unintended consequence of your rules fix regarding scrolls and wands (bard scrolls), and now you're considering further explanatory language. I wonder whether the result (making a few magic items more expensive) is worth the cost in confusion and work.
Sorry if this seems like a rant. I don't care that I have to sell back my wands of lesser restoration and resist energy. But I think this sets a negative (and confusing) precedent for rulemaking with the Pathfinder Society.
Thanks,
Ron
Many people probably also don't know that anything that penalizes your AC also penalizes your CMD. ;-)
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I tried to search for it - but either I missed it or it hasn't been asked.
Could someone explain to me the meaning of the following sentence in the Society Rules - page 22. 'Finally, note that a 1st-level PC can be returned to life in Pathfinder Society.'
What is special in bringing back a 1st-level PC that this extra sentence is added. Or what is different between bringing back a first level character from a higher level character.
The Core Rulebook allows resurrection for a first level (for a -2 on CON). Should I just assume as there isn't a level drain for higher levels in society play that there isn't a CON drain either for 1st level. But why doesn't it say so? What do I miss here?
1st level characters won't have the PA and money for Raise dead. And even a whole party 1st level party will be stretched to pool resources with/without selling stuff. And I didn't want to assume it means 'for free' as a GM decision to ensure players can carry on / are not frustrated in their very first game(s).
Thod
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And I didn't want to assume it means 'for free' as a GM decision to ensure players can carry on / are not frustrated in their very first game(s).
That's what I always assumed. Plus, if you're level one and die, you can literally make a new character exactly like your old one. So, what's the point in making you do that?
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Sometimes it's more than that.
From a player perspective, yes, you can just make another character exactly like the previous, but what of the predecessor? Adventuring can be quite dangerous, and usually deadly for 75% of those that undertake it. But what if players wish to continue the story of that PC? If its not horribly punishing the players, raise dead should definitely be an option for that dead PC, as being raised from the dead can be a very key thing in his/her backstory and how that person evolves as a person.
Sometimes, you want to bring that PC back from oblivion in order to continue the story, is the bottom line, really. Who knows, that same PC might become something greater than anyone could have guessed.
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And I didn't want to assume it means 'for free' as a GM decision to ensure players can carry on / are not frustrated in their very first game(s).That's what I always assumed. Plus, if you're level one and die, you can literally make a new character exactly like your old one. So, what's the point in making you do that?
To assume it is one thing (and I don't disagree with you !!) and to apply it but have the niggling feeling you could be wrong is another.
In addition - in the current (special) situation he could be even raised between encounters as we are in a big city and the next encounters allows for a detour. So the player could have a new character - or one raised one who has his first XP and maybe even some PA.
We already had one detour 'on the way' for spellcasting services (player bitten by a rat and scared). That player paid for the cure desease service. This way I hadn't to look up the details :)
Thod
Could someone explain to me the meaning of the following sentence in the Society Rules - page 22. 'Finally, note that a 1st-level PC can be returned to life in Pathfinder Society.'
It's in there because the Guide is a living document that functions as both a rule book and a FAQ. Since, "Can I raise dead my level 1 PC?" was one of the more frequently asked questions back at the beginning, I added that line there to say, "Yes."
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Requirements for prestige classes are hand-waved. Meaning if it has any kind of special requirement (for instance, to be a hell knight you must single handedly kill a devil in the presence of another hell knight), you are assumed to have accomplished it. Meet the prerequisites for skills, feats and other rules-based concepts, and you're good to go.
Have fun being a Chronicler. :)
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How are you treating the Pathfinder Chronicler? According to the Core RB, he/she needs to have an NPC buy a written work (i.e. epic poem/novel NOT a magic scroll) for 50 gp. How is that handled?
pg. 14 of the guide to organized play listed under the Special note section of Step 3: Race and Class:
"Additionally, the item creation requirements for the Pathfinder
Chronicler prestige class are hand-waved, though any
character choosing this prestige class must still spend
the 50 gp."
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pg. 14 of the guide to organized play listed under the Special note section of Step 3: Race and Class:"Additionally, the item creation requirements for the Pathfinder
Chronicler prestige class are hand-waved, though any
character choosing this prestige class must still spend
the 50 gp."
Shouldn't that be "receives the 50 gp" The character is, after all, selling the novel or whatever to them, not buying it from them. And the parchment and ink don't cost anywhere near 50g.
DOH!
*opens word document*
*makes note*
*saves to changes for 2.3 folder*
That's probably been in there for almost 18 months. Funny no one, including me, caught it until now .... :-/
Nope.
You just don't have to worry about that requirement.
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How much does it cost to buy scrolls (or oils) in Pathfinder Society?
I thought that a scroll of a 1st level spell made by a 1st level caster would cost 25 gold pieces, but the "Always Available Items" section lists their price topping at 50 gold pieces. I wasn't sure if I was missing something important.
The oils are similar listing 100 gold pieces when I had assumed that the listed items would cost 50 gold pieces.
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How much does it cost to buy scrolls (or oils) in Pathfinder Society?
I thought that a scroll of a 1st level spell made by a 1st level caster would cost 25 gold pieces, but the "Always Available Items" section lists their price topping at 50 gold pieces. I wasn't sure if I was missing something important.
The oils are similar listing 100 gold pieces when I had assumed that the listed items would cost 50 gold pieces.
That just means that's the maximum price you can pay. Some spells have material components that up the price of scrolls or potions/oils for that individual spell.
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A couple of questions related to the society as I create a character for a convention in two weeks.
1. Is Paizo coming out with a revised Seeker of Secrets anytime soon? Since I purchased the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting literally days before learning that it was being redone, I don't want to purchase anything else which is going to be obsolete soon.
2. Are the oracle mysteries which allow the oracle to use Charisma in place of Dexterity for Armor Class subject to maximum Dexterity for armor? I'll also ask this in the rules section, but I haven't had any luck getting "official" answers for APG material in the past.
That just means that's the maximum price you can pay. Some spells have material components that up the price of scrolls or potions/oils for that individual spell.How much does it cost to buy scrolls (or oils) in Pathfinder Society?
I thought that a scroll of a 1st level spell made by a 1st level caster would cost 25 gold pieces, but the "Always Available Items" section lists their price topping at 50 gold pieces. I wasn't sure if I was missing something important.
The oils are similar listing 100 gold pieces when I had assumed that the listed items would cost 50 gold pieces.
Actually, I think it's just a holdover from 3.5 where a 1st level scroll made by a paladin would cost 50 gp.
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1. Is Paizo coming out with a revised Seeker of Secrets anytime soon? Since I purchased the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting literally days before learning that it was being redone, I don't want to purchase anything else which is going to be obsolete soon.
Since Seeker of Secrets was just released (in Feb?) and is the first Non-Core book official Pathfinder Society material I don't think it's going to be revised anytime soon. You're safe buying it now.
A couple of questions related to the society as I create a character for a convention in two weeks.
1. Is Paizo coming out with a revised Seeker of Secrets anytime soon? Since I purchased the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting literally days before learning that it was being redone, I don't want to purchase anything else which is going to be obsolete soon.
Seekers came out 60 days ago and is written for PRPG. No worries about us revising it anytime soon.
2. Are the oracle mysteries which allow the oracle to use Charisma in place of Dexterity for Armor Class subject to maximum Dexterity for armor? I'll also ask this in the rules section, but I haven't had any luck getting "official" answers for APG material in the past.
The answer is yes and Jason is making sure that's clarified in the final APG.
That's probably true, but I like to think that Josh is omnipotent and thereby doesn't make mistakes. ;-)Is it possible Josh could invent a rule so stringent not even he could write a rule against it?
Ahhhh, but the real question is this: would he want to?
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I'm a little confused on how the witch familiar interacts with the "adding spells" rules. Witch familiars function similarly to a wizard's spellbook, but to teach from a scroll they pay no extra scribing costs.
I would assume then that the witch simply buys the scroll in question and then makes the spellcraft check to add the spell to her familiar, correct? The wizard gets a special break on scroll costs. Does this extend to the witch as well or no?
Josh,
I see that everything in Adventurers Armory is legal, with the accept ion of Pseudodragons (which have to be gotten from advanced familiar feat). One of the items 'converted' is Armored Kilt from the Chronicles Setting book. This Item was specifically excluded from society play. Because it is 'converted' in the Armory supplement, and not excluded in the society rules doc, Is it legal for play?
Thanks!
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Hi Josh, loving the facebook updates but a quick question; ina recent pfs module my summoners eidolon was bitten and gained a disease, i have asked elsewhere and their are different answers to what the optiosn are in removing the diesese via restoration/ remove diesease or as a summoned creature the disease would disappear after it goes and is retunred, i ahve looked thrugh the summoner write-up from the final playtest document and have looked through the pfs document for answers and having found none, i bow to your omnipotent powers and abilities
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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Just to clarify one last time...
Under "Play, Play, Play" a player can play a scenario multiple times as long as it is (1) a different character, (2) from a different faction, and (3) it is the only way the table will legally be able to play.
A GM can can "free" credit only once. Can a GM play through a scenario he has run and gain "player" credit if he is just trying to help make a legal table? For example, three newbies sign up to play Hydra's Fang (not enough to make a table); a fourth experienced player could join this group to make a legal table following the rules outlined above. Could a GM who has ran the scenario previously (say Season 0) run a character through this and gain a Chronicle as a player?
I'm not trying to confuse the issue; I'm getting ready to oversee Pathfinder Society for our local convention and want to make sure no rules get broken... by GMs or players alike.
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Just to clarify one last time...
Under "Play, Play, Play" a player can play a scenario multiple times as long as it is (1) a different character, (2) from a different faction, and (3) it is the only way the table will legally be able to play.
A GM can can "free" credit only once. Can a GM play through a scenario he has run and gain "player" credit if he is just trying to help make a legal table? For example, three newbies sign up to play Hydra's Fang (not enough to make a table); a fourth experienced player could join this group to make a legal table following the rules outlined above. Could a GM who has ran the scenario previously (say Season 0) run a character through this and gain a Chronicle as a player?
I'm not trying to confuse the issue; I'm getting ready to oversee Pathfinder Society for our local convention and want to make sure no rules get broken... by GMs or players alike.
The replay rules only apply if you haven't run the actual scenario in question. As soon as you run a scenario you can never play in it again, regardless of the table size or character.
The replay rules only apply if you haven't run the actual scenario in question. As soon as you run a scenario you can never play in it again, regardless of the table size or character.
You can play it to make an otherwise undersized table legal, but you do not get credit for it. You have to play a "silent" pregen.
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The replay rules only apply if you haven't run the actual scenario in question. As soon as you run a scenario you can never play in it again, regardless of the table size or character.You can play it to make an otherwise undersized table legal, but you do not get credit for it. You have to play a "silent" pregen.
Seriously?!
So if I run the scenario, I can never take credit for replaying it as a player, even though I was needed to make a legal table? But if I have only played the scenario before, I could technically replay it 4 more times to make legal tables, as long as I never run it? What's the difference between playing and running the scenario? And before I'm told as a GM I know what's going on, so does anyone who was half-paying attention while playing.
P.S. I would appreciate it if Josh were to respond to this so I can reference his comment when I forward it to my fellow gamers. This has the possibility of significantly changing how we muster tables. If this is true, we honestly didn't understand it this way.
Seriously?!
So if I run the scenario, I can never take credit for replaying it as a player, even though I was needed to make a legal table? But if I have only played the scenario before, I could technically replay it 4 more times to make legal tables, as long as I never run it?
No matter what you do as a GM or a player, you can only get credit (e.g. experience & prestige) for it one time, and then if you need to replay it (to fill up a table), you use a pre-generated character.