Aid Another, how do YOU use it?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So first here is a description of the Aid another action

AID Another:
In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.

You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check.

So my group is split on how to handle this. Some want a limit, others are fine with it as is....at least until I start smacking them around with it with tougher creatures ;)

Bad guy is in the middle with a PC on the right and left. Each provides the other flank, and one of them decides to aid another for an additional +2 for a total of +4 to hit, or a +2 to hit and +2 to AC.

Now we can continue to take this to crazy levels by adding additional monsters and even further by adding monsters with reach.

Example: I have a PC surrounded by evil guys with one Big Bad Evil Guy. Each of the bad guys decide to aid their Big Bad Boss, some with offense and some with defense. So say 10 guys total,splitting between them to attack and defense) for a total of +10 to attack and +10 to defense (provided of course they hit AC 10 which shouldn't be too hard). Now while the PC's are busy trying to clean up the little bad guys, I'm mopping the dungeon floors and walls with the Big Guy on the PC's.

Do you all play with it as is? Or do you limit it by only allowing either flank or an aid check? Perhaps only from one side of the battlefield, thus you can only aid guys that are NEXT to you, not across granting flank? Or some other limit such as aiding another with skills you can put a limit on how many is feasible.


Going strictly from the definition of Aid Another you provided (I haven't checked the book), your examples don't quite work - without extraordinary circumstances. If you are playing on a mat with squares, and each opponent takes up a single 5' square and each has a 5' reach - then no more than 4 opponents would be in a position to aid your BBEG. Further, depending on how you define 'adjacent' (again I don't have the book open) the two opponents positioned diagonally from the BBEG may not count.

Leaving that aside, remember that each one of those minions has to use up a Standard Action to assist their boss. So you are losing 5 attacks and potentially 5 damage rolls in a round for the nominal gain of a +x on 1 ATT and/or +y AC. That is a point of very quick diminishing returns.


Not only do we play with it As Is, but we actually increase it.

However, consider this situation ... how to massive numbers of conscripts in an army take down Big Bads? Per RAW at a certain point it is almost impossible for them to score a hit, much less cause damage (even with Crits when you consider DR).

The answer ... massive stacking of Aid Another. By using a mob of "assistants" to Aid a "designated Attacker" the Conscript Army now stands a chance. Of course they will suffer massive casualties before they win, but eventually enough War1s should be able to mob a Giant or dog-pile a Dragon that they can eventually drag it down and defeat it. It may take thousands, but they should have a chance.

That said, I do not favor limiting Aid Another. In fact, we increased its benefits.

At our table we use an "extreme Aid" rule that, for every 5 points by which the Check exceeds the DC, an additional +1 is gained above the regular +2. This makes sense particularly in Skill checks, but can work in Combat as well. High Skill bonuses or high Attack bonuses should give more benefit when used this way.

Per Storm Raven above, it does not usually benefit PCs to Aid in combat (unless they can't do much else, perhaps due to DR, SR or other factors) but it's a great tactic if you have a few cohort or minions around.

YMMV,

Rez


I think the situation you depict is indeed dire - but then again, being surrounded by ten opponents, one of whom is a Big Bad Guy should be a pretty dire situation, so it seems reasonable to me - the alternative (where they all focus their attacks on the PC in question is not going to be pleasant either).

The only real advantage I can see is if the 'minions' are so outclassed by the PC that they have next to no chance of hitting him directly - in which case the aid another option has greatly increased their combat effectiveness. However, in that situation I suspect the rest of the PC's party will be able to deal with the lowly critters pretty swiftly.


Occurs to me, I didn't answer your principle question... Yes, my group uses Aid Another as is. But I think Rezdave's point about amping the effect based on how well the DC is beaten is worth adopting. My group already does that for Skill assists, just never thought about using it in combat as well.


Steve Geddes wrote:

I think the situation you depict is indeed dire - but then again, being surrounded by ten opponents, one of whom is a Big Bad Guy should be a pretty dire situation, so it seems reasonable to me - the alternative (where they all focus their attacks on the PC in question is not going to be pleasant either).

The only real advantage I can see is if the 'minions' are so outclassed by the PC that they have next to no chance of hitting him directly - in which case the aid another option has greatly increased their combat effectiveness. However, in that situation I suspect the rest of the PC's party will be able to deal with the lowly critters pretty swiftly.

If the PC is surrounded, I'd be tempted to have 2 or 3 critters assist each of the minions with the best flanking positions/ATT rolls to buff their flanking bonuses. In addition you could have a couple help the BBEG (depending on ACs of course)... that way you can amp 3 or 4 'likely to hit' attacks instead of uber-amping just one.

The bonus is - that's the kind of thinking and tactics that scare the crap out of players who laugh at the swarming horde of goblins. :)

Dark Archive

As I understand it, the 'Aid-er' must be within reach of both the person to be Aided, and the target against which he is Aiding.

So, normally, that would be a max of two Aid-ers, standing on either side of the BBEG, Aiding against a single target standing in front of him. If that single target takes the Total Defense action, he completely cancels out the +4 Aid bonus to attack rolls for the BBEG, and if the Aid bonuses were to the BBEG's AC, he can just choose to strike one of the Aid-ers that round, while his allies strike the BBEG with no penalty for the Aid (since it only applied to him).

There are very specific situations where this could get gross. A BBEG Cleric (for instance) with eight longspear-equipped Skeletons readying to Aid Other against any foes that get within melee range of him could last a bit longer while channeling or using spells from within his skeletal 'hedgehog.' If he bothers to armor his skeletons, or surround them with a secondary line of Total Defending skeletons hiding behind tower shields, he could be a tough nut to crack without decent missile weapons, spell support and / or alchemical lobbage.

In my Freeport game, the evil acolytes tended to do this exact thing, since they could each rebuke a single skeleton, using it as a 'shieldmaiden' to stand by them and try and ward off blows.

The players also have potential to take advantage of this sort of thing. In those games were you have to rescue some peasants or prisoners or whatever, they'll probably be more useful (and safer) cowering behind you with a longspear, Aiding your attack rolls or AC by poking ineffectually at the guy in front of you, than they would be making normal attack rolls.

Grand Lodge

We play it As Is.

I frequently play the Cleric, and follow our pain loving Barbarian all across the battlefield. Now I carry a nice Guisarme so I have Reach and the ability to Trip if the opportunity pops op.

Now remember, Soft Cover applies to combatants using Reach weapons, so position is important.

I don't find the rule ridiculous at all, nor would I consider having a BBEG surround himself with 10 minions just to take advantage of Aid Another. If I wanted to do that, I would just have the BBEG surround himself with minions all casting Lightning Bolts from scrolls or wands or whatever and just blast the PCs to smoking rubble. I mean, really THAT is just as valid an option after all... Just because a PC can use Lightning Bolt, you wouldn't consider loading up minions to punish the PC for using it would you?


Set wrote:
As I understand it, the 'Aid-er' must be within reach of both the person to be Aided, and the target against which he is Aiding.

I disagree, and haven't seen that printed anywhere.

Imagine a Cleric and a Rogue flanking an enemy. The Cleric can't deal damage because of DR or some other factor, so instead he decides to Aid the Rogue by shouting at and distracting the enemy, making threats or "getting in the face of" his opponent, casting "fake-spells" as a free action (really, just invoking the name of his deity and "praying") that seemingly buff himself.

These and other tactics could distract the opponent, allowing the Rogue an additional +2 and the opportunity to more likely hit and bypass DR with his Sneak Attack.

They are entirely logical and valid despite the characters not being "within reach". After all, you're not necessarily grabbing ahold of the same weapon and swinging together.

R.

Grand Lodge

Set wrote:
As I understand it, the 'Aid-er' must be within reach of both the person to be Aided, and the target against which he is Aiding.

Well that interpretation is not exactly in the way the rule is written.

PRD wrote:

Aid Another

In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.

You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell, or to assist another character's skill check.

The only limitation I see is that part I bolded. It doesn't say anything that the friend must be within reach. It just says you must be in position to make a melee attack...

So if the position was like this: (BG being bad guy and F being friend, and A being the guy doing Aid Another)

F
BG
A

I would allow it with no hesitation... in fact if A has a reach weapon I would even allow

F
BG

A

just about any combination. If A has reach and BG has reach then I would even allow...

F

BG

A

even if F does not have reach...

heck even add in another character, M for minion and if A and BG have reach I would allow this

F

BG
M
A

now this would have the added complication that BG gains soft cover due to M when being attacked by A so the target DC for Aid Another goes up (what is it... +2 or +4... something like that).

But essentially ALL of these scenarios are perfectly valid uses of Aid Another.

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