Government folly


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Bitter Thorn wrote:
I really don't get the attraction of living in a densely populated area.

Same here. I'd rather be living in the country where 10 acres is considered a good backyard.


Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Too much corruption in NY, man. The mob's really sunk their claws in, and the ones that aren't mobbed up set their prices as if they were.
How do you start to deal with such massive levels of corruption?

If through some fluke I were to ever find myself in a position to do something about it, I would probably start by investigating which trash companies were really trash companies and not just shells. I'd look at individual contracts, and check to see where competing bids were recieved, and investigate THOSE companies to make sure that they are not only not shells, but also that they were not intimidated or bribed to offer a poor bid. Those companies that were not real would be immediately shut down and the owners would be incarcerated, with something similar happening to those who intimidated or bribed existing companies to fix prices/ensure contracts.


Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Too much corruption in NY, man. The mob's really sunk their claws in, and the ones that aren't mobbed up set their prices as if they were.
How do you start to deal with such massive levels of corruption?
If through some fluke I were to ever find myself in a position to do something about it, I would probably start by investigating which trash companies were really trash companies and not just shells. I'd look at individual contracts, and check to see where competing bids were recieved, and investigate THOSE companies to make sure that they are not only not shells, but also that they were not intimidated or bribed to offer a poor bid. Those companies that were not real would be immediately shut down and the owners would be incarcerated, with something similar happening to those who intimidated or bribed existing companies to fix prices/ensure contracts.

Why don't state and city governments do this now or historically? It's an open issue how corrupt these systems have been for decades. Why is this just accepted?


Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Too much corruption in NY, man. The mob's really sunk their claws in, and the ones that aren't mobbed up set their prices as if they were.
How do you start to deal with such massive levels of corruption?
If through some fluke I were to ever find myself in a position to do something about it, I would probably start by investigating which trash companies were really trash companies and not just shells. I'd look at individual contracts, and check to see where competing bids were recieved, and investigate THOSE companies to make sure that they are not only not shells, but also that they were not intimidated or bribed to offer a poor bid. Those companies that were not real would be immediately shut down and the owners would be incarcerated, with something similar happening to those who intimidated or bribed existing companies to fix prices/ensure contracts.
Why don't state and city governments do this now or historically? It's an open issue how corrupt these systems have been for decades. Why is this just accepted?

Why do bad things happen to good people? Come on, man, it's not like the cops and federales aren't making attempts to shut these guys down. Not every case on the subject makes the papers, and when they do they are occasionally buried deep in where people won't see it. There was a recent development where a semi-high profile one on Staten Island was shut down. But it takes time and effort, and the mob is actually good at what they do. It's ouroborean at times, and sisyphan when it isn't, but there are occasional victories.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Xpltvdeleted wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:

Free Stuff From Sam I just got a free golf cart.

Unless I missed it, this article left something out that the original included...after he got his free golf cart (presumably to prove a point) he donated it to charity, thereby claiming a second tax break for a charitable donation. Hypocracy thy name is fiscal conservatism.
LOL! He didn't make the rules, or lobby for them. Playing by the rules makes him a hypocrite?

Yes it does. he's chiding something that he considers a problem and deliberately compounding it as well. You can't get more hypocritical than that example.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bitter Thorn wrote:


I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but I don't trust the government to keep the roads fixed.

They're not exactly going to fix themselves. On the other hand the New Jersey Turnpike Authority may be an example of a middle ground approach, the Authority is essentially a private utility that's overseen by NJ DOT. It works pretty well.

However the main problem here is that over the last few decades we've been very eager to build super highways wherever we could find an excuse to lay down asphalt. In the process, it's wrecked public transportation and left us with more infrastructure than we seem to be able or willing to maintain.


Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Too much corruption in NY, man. The mob's really sunk their claws in, and the ones that aren't mobbed up set their prices as if they were.
How do you start to deal with such massive levels of corruption?
If through some fluke I were to ever find myself in a position to do something about it, I would probably start by investigating which trash companies were really trash companies and not just shells. I'd look at individual contracts, and check to see where competing bids were recieved, and investigate THOSE companies to make sure that they are not only not shells, but also that they were not intimidated or bribed to offer a poor bid. Those companies that were not real would be immediately shut down and the owners would be incarcerated, with something similar happening to those who intimidated or bribed existing companies to fix prices/ensure contracts.
Why don't state and city governments do this now or historically? It's an open issue how corrupt these systems have been for decades. Why is this just accepted?
Why do bad things happen to good people? Come on, man, it's not like the cops and federales aren't making attempts to shut these guys down. Not every case on the subject makes the papers, and when they do they are occasionally buried deep in where people won't see it. There was a recent development where a semi-high profile one on Staten Island was shut down. But it takes time and effort, and the mob is actually good at what they do. It's ouroborean at times, and sisyphan when it isn't, but there are occasional victories.

I suspect the governments in question are more corrupt than the mob, but I'm still curious why voters seem to just accept the status quo of organized crime and government.

Perhaps people feel that they are too insignificant to make a difference, and they just stick their heads in the sand like so many other things all over the country.


LazarX wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Xpltvdeleted wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:

Free Stuff From Sam I just got a free golf cart.

Unless I missed it, this article left something out that the original included...after he got his free golf cart (presumably to prove a point) he donated it to charity, thereby claiming a second tax break for a charitable donation. Hypocracy thy name is fiscal conservatism.
LOL! He didn't make the rules, or lobby for them. Playing by the rules makes him a hypocrite?
Yes it does. he's chiding something that he considers a problem and deliberately compounding it as well. You can't get more hypocritical than that example.

This logic is completely lost on me. Sorry.


LazarX wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:


I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but I don't trust the government to keep the roads fixed.

They're not exactly going to fix themselves. On the other hand the New Jersey Turnpike Authority may be an example of a middle ground approach, the Authority is essentially a private utility that's overseen by NJ DOT. It works pretty well.

However the main problem here is that over the last few decades we've been very eager to build super highways wherever we could find an excuse to lay down asphalt. In the process, it's wrecked public transportation and left us with more infrastructure than we seem to be able or willing to maintain.

I thought it was clear that larger point is that if government fails to carry out its most basic functions competently and with out massive corruption. then why would we want to expand the role of a government system that is not trustworthy or competent (especially with the death penalty or health care, for instance).

When I see things that are stupid and broken my first impulse is not to make those things bigger and more powerful by force.

The DHS is a perfect example of this. When massive government bureaucracy failed miserably the government's immediate response was to massively expand the power, scope, and intrusiveness of government bureaucracy.

The result seems to be that we lost massive amounts of money and freedom, and we are not really any safer.


Don't you love the government?

Pittsburgh man latest to have home accidentally demolished

"Experiences like Hall's are distressingly common."

Wow


Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Mayor Bloomberg under fire for handling of blizzard
You should post a story about Cory Booker of Newark as a counterpoint to Bloomberg's poor performance. Dude rocked during the blizzard, apparently.
That blew my wife away actually. Although realistically the area was just as hosed as we were and was in for a lot of shoveling, the mayor did a good job of rallying the people around him. Bloomberg didn't, but there are a number of conspiracy theories flying around as to why not, everything from a rather believable sanitation slowdown semi-strike to a highly unlikely anti-Bloomberg campaign within his own staff that worked to manipulate information and plow key streets in his immediate vicinity to make him look bad and ruin his reputation in the name of revenge for city employees everywhere.
The guy IS kind of a jerk. I tend to believe the sanitation workers angle, though. NYC public service union workers have always been a PITA.
Oh, he's done several things I strongly disagree with, and technically I work for him too. However, there are better and worse ways(not necessarily right and wrong) to go about doing things, and, if this conspiracy theory is correct, then santiation truly picked one of the worse ways.
They usually do. Garbage strikes, subway shutdowns. School strikes. Public service unions have no concern for civilians, usually. If the UAW decided to lay it down, that's no biggie to most people on the day to day (and I tend to buy Japanese anyway, no no big whoop), but taking a city hostage to make a point rarely endears anyone to the public service union's cause.
I could NOT put it better my man. One of my best friends is a teacher as well as a small business owner, and he's really gotten into the "the government is out to...

City plows buried cars, toppled headstones


Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Mayor Bloomberg under fire for handling of blizzard
You should post a story about Cory Booker of Newark as a counterpoint to Bloomberg's poor performance. Dude rocked during the blizzard, apparently.
That blew my wife away actually. Although realistically the area was just as hosed as we were and was in for a lot of shoveling, the mayor did a good job of rallying the people around him. Bloomberg didn't, but there are a number of conspiracy theories flying around as to why not, everything from a rather believable sanitation slowdown semi-strike to a highly unlikely anti-Bloomberg campaign within his own staff that worked to manipulate information and plow key streets in his immediate vicinity to make him look bad and ruin his reputation in the name of revenge for city employees everywhere.
The guy IS kind of a jerk. I tend to believe the sanitation workers angle, though. NYC public service union workers have always been a PITA.
Oh, he's done several things I strongly disagree with, and technically I work for him too. However, there are better and worse ways(not necessarily right and wrong) to go about doing things, and, if this conspiracy theory is correct, then santiation truly picked one of the worse ways.
They usually do. Garbage strikes, subway shutdowns. School strikes. Public service unions have no concern for civilians, usually. If the UAW decided to lay it down, that's no biggie to most people on the day to day (and I tend to buy Japanese anyway, no no big whoop), but taking a city hostage to make a point rarely endears anyone to the public service union's cause.
I could NOT put it better my man. One of my best friends is a teacher as well as a small business owner, and he's really gotten into the "the
...

Yeah, I was out riding my bike in that. They really do just kinda bury you in there, and as grateful as we are to have streets plowed, the plows do handle like a Y-Wing with a damaged nacelle.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Bitter Thorn wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:


LOL! He didn't make the rules, or lobby for them. Playing by the rules makes him a hypocrite?
Yes it does. he's chiding something that he considers a problem and deliberately compounding it as well. You can't get more hypocritical than that example.
This logic is completely lost on me. Sorry.

You can't say X is bad, while practicing X, without being a hypocrite. It doesn't matter if someone else is enabling you to be a hypocrite, although they are at fault as well.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:


LOL! He didn't make the rules, or lobby for them. Playing by the rules makes him a hypocrite?
Yes it does. he's chiding something that he considers a problem and deliberately compounding it as well. You can't get more hypocritical than that example.
This logic is completely lost on me. Sorry.
You can't say X is bad, while practicing X, without being a hypocrite. It doesn't matter if someone else is enabling you to be a hypocrite, although they are at fault as well.

OK, I can see that I suppose.


F-35 looking more like white elephant


Women were 'unable to give informed consent', say demonstrators who blocked entry to New Scotland Yard


Five Decades of Failure Are Enough


A tiny bit of good news for a change.

House rejects extensions of Patriot Act provisions


Bitter Thorn wrote:

A tiny bit of good news for a change.

House rejects extensions of Patriot Act provisions

26 Tea Party Republicans actually willing to put their votes where their mouths are is indeed good news. Would that there were more, and active on other personal liberty issues as well.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:

A tiny bit of good news for a change.

House rejects extensions of Patriot Act provisions

26 Tea Party Republicans actually willing to put their votes where their mouths are is indeed good news. Would that there were more, and active on other personal liberty issues as well.

I wish it was more meaningful, but it's good to see some opposition to this political steamroller.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:

A tiny bit of good news for a change.

House rejects extensions of Patriot Act provisions

26 Tea Party Republicans actually willing to put their votes where their mouths are is indeed good news. Would that there were more, and active on other personal liberty issues as well.

Hnn. Interesting indeed. And this is coming from a stauch Tea Party foe. Still, stopped clocks...


Freehold DM wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:

A tiny bit of good news for a change.

House rejects extensions of Patriot Act provisions

26 Tea Party Republicans actually willing to put their votes where their mouths are is indeed good news. Would that there were more, and active on other personal liberty issues as well.
Hnn. Interesting indeed. And this is coming from a stauch Tea Party foe. Still, stopped clocks...

Hey! I resemble that remark! ;)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
And this is coming from a stauch Tea Party foe.

I'm a great supporter of what they claim to be about: smaller government, greater citizen involvement and empowerment, personal liberty as a paramound virtue (constrained by the equal liberty of others), dismantling of needlessly outdated and fundamentally unjust laws, and reduction of bureaucracy.

I'm an equally dedicated opponent of what too many of them seem to be headed towards: xenophobia, theocracy, corporate enslavement of citizens, anti-science, glorification of gun violence as an end in itself.


NY Rep. Lee resigns after shirtless photo surfaces

D-bag!


Bitter Thorn wrote:

NY Rep. Lee resigns after shirtless photo surfaces

D-bag!

Not to play devil's advocate, but I've never understood why it was any of our business what some elected official does behind closed doors.


Penny-wise and pound-foolish: Gov. Rick Perry cuts the legs out from one of the most important professions in Texas.

Funding for the Board of Professional Geoscientists and the Board of Professional Land Surveying all would be eliminated in Perry's plan.

Almost every state in the U.S. requires professional licensure for geoscience work; eliminating it is like eliminating the need for a surgeon to have any credentials. And what Perry seems not to realize is that the TBPG is actually a net revenue earner, bringing in more money in dues than it costs the state to continue operating -- so his effort to "save money" by "cutting waste" in this case will actually cost him much-needed revenue, in addition to damaging the most important industry in the state (oil & gas). Companies that do geoscience work are likely to prefer to operate out of states that acknowledge their expertise and prevent unqualified yahoos from undercutting them.


Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:

NY Rep. Lee resigns after shirtless photo surfaces

D-bag!

Not to play devil's advocate, but I've never understood why it was any of our business what some elected official does behind closed doors.

I agree but they need to work harder to keep it behind closed doors.

If you have a mistress its none of our business but if your routinely being outed by random citizens then that is going to get in the way of your being able to govern.

In this sense its not that he was cheating on his wife and family that I think is the fatal flaw - its that he was posting pictures of himself to random people on Craig's List.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:

NY Rep. Lee resigns after shirtless photo surfaces

D-bag!

Not to play devil's advocate, but I've never understood why it was any of our business what some elected official does behind closed doors.

I agree but they need to work harder to keep it behind closed doors.

If you have a mistress its none of our business but if your routinely being outed by random citizens then that is going to get in the way of your being able to govern.

In this sense its not that he was cheating on his wife and family that I think is the fatal flaw - its that he was posting pictures of himself to random people on Craig's List.

+1

It's the stunning stupidity that bothers me the most.


Bitter Thorn wrote:
It's the stunning stupidity that bothers me the most.

Stunning Stupidity and Overwhelming Stupidity always were the most broken feats of the Politician class.


Shinmizu wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
It's the stunning stupidity that bothers me the most.
Stunning Stupidity and Overwhelming Stupidity always were the most broken feats of the Politician class.

LMAO!


Bitter Thorn wrote:

NY Rep. Lee resigns after shirtless photo surfaces

D-bag!

Hee hee! Doesn't he know you're supposed to put pictures of your junk on Craigslist.

Stupid Republicans.


Doodlebug Anklebiter wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:

NY Rep. Lee resigns after shirtless photo surfaces

D-bag!

Hee hee! Doesn't he know you're supposed to put pictures of your junk on Craigslist.

Stupid Republicans.

It's only a matter of time before some elected cretin does it.


Billions Paid to Firms That Defrauded DoD


Memos: Firefighter refused call to Tucson shooting


Does Big Government Breed Corruption and Sleaze?


HUD Scandals


Education Department Bureaucracy Keeps Disabled Borrowers in Debt


bump :)


David Fryer wrote:
A girl in New York City was sentenced to 12 months in jail for telling police she did not know who attacked and injured her at school while her rapist, a jail worker and serial rapist, get probation. Talk about a miscarriage of justice.

I'm swiping this for obvious reasons.


Homeless woman's arrest for sending son to Norwalk school stirs debate


Operation Gunrunner cover up: ATF threatened with contempt charge

Obama justice dept gives thousands of weapons to Mexican drug lords


Bitter Thorn wrote:

Operation Gunrunner cover up: ATF threatened with contempt charge

Obama justice dept gives thousands of weapons to Mexican drug lords

the title of the last link and the issue discussed in the article are a bit apart from each other. The guns seem to be legally

purchased and then walked across the border, this might be more an issue for law enforcement as opposed to administration.


Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:

Operation Gunrunner cover up: ATF threatened with contempt charge

Obama justice dept gives thousands of weapons to Mexican drug lords

the title of the last link and the issue discussed in the article are a bit apart from each other. The guns seem to be legally

purchased and then walked across the border, this might be more an issue for law enforcement as opposed to administration.

I doubt ATFE would walk thousands of US guns into the hand of the cartels without a green light from Justice. I'm not sure about the State dept.

I'll be happy to provide some more links.


CBS Gun shop owner expressed concerns early on in "gunwalker" scandal

Project Gunrunner update: ATF ignored warnings, DOJ ignores document requests

Friction Grows Between Lawmakers and DOJ Over 'Project Gunrunner' Probe

"Project Gunrunner" scandal CBS video

NPR Congress Threatens ATF With Contempt In Border Weapons Probe

The CBS video is a good place to start.


This has been going on for a long time, and the Justice dept has been bragging about this operation for years. I can't imagine that Holder and Obama and Napalitano didn't know anything about this. This operation also received $10,000,000 in stimulus money.

Pro Publica: Inspector General Points Out Flaws in ATF Gunrunning Program (10-7-2009)


Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:

Operation Gunrunner cover up: ATF threatened with contempt charge

Obama justice dept gives thousands of weapons to Mexican drug lords

the title of the last link and the issue discussed in the article are a bit apart from each other. The guns seem to be legally

purchased and then walked across the border, this might be more an issue for law enforcement as opposed to administration.

I doubt ATFE would walk thousands of US guns into the hand of the cartels without a green light from Justice. I'm not sure about the State dept.

I'll be happy to provide some more links.

hnn. Still not buying the idea of a conspiracy. I think these guns are being purchased legallt, and while I am not up on gun laws, I do recall a great hue and cry being raised when it was being considered that not just anyone would be able to buy a gun around the time Obama first came into office (he's going to take our guns away! Etc.) Still, I will check out your links.


Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:

Operation Gunrunner cover up: ATF threatened with contempt charge

Obama justice dept gives thousands of weapons to Mexican drug lords

the title of the last link and the issue discussed in the article are a bit apart from each other. The guns seem to be legally

purchased and then walked across the border, this might be more an issue for law enforcement as opposed to administration.

I doubt ATFE would walk thousands of US guns into the hand of the cartels without a green light from Justice. I'm not sure about the State dept.

I'll be happy to provide some more links.

hnn. Still not buying the idea of a conspiracy. I think these guns are being purchased legallt, and while I am not up on gun laws, I do recall a great hue and cry being raised when it was being considered that not just anyone would be able to buy a gun around the time Obama first came into office (he's going to take our guns away! Etc.) Still, I will check out your links.

I don't know that I would call it a conspiracy. I just think it's bad policy and incredible hypocrisy especially in light of the "90% of Mexican drug lord guns came from US gun stores" campaign of lies.

Project Gunrunner: Obama's Stimulus-Funded Border Nightmare

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth STRATFOR

This is just the way that law enforcement does business these days. The DEA does the same kind of thing all the time. There just isn't any real accountability.


The 90% lie is also published in this GAO report.

U.S. Efforts to Combat Arms Trafficking to Mexico Face Planning and Coordination Challenges

It appears the State dept was also at least aware of this operation, so Hillary probably was aware. Of course these efforts date back to the corrupt and incompetent Bush administration too. $76,6000,000 in taxpayer dollars for fiscal 2004 - 2008.


ATF UNDER SIEGE Time 6-24-1995

Interesting old article about corruption and racism in Clinton's ATF.


U.S. Senate More Than 1,300 Guns Were Bought Illegally by Suspect Buyers Under ATF's 'Gunrunner' Program

"In a second, equally explosive disclosure, a law enforcement source tells Fox News, that ATF undercover agents were acting as the straw buyers and purchasing guns using government-issued false identifications and then providing those guns to cartel traffickers to gain credibility in their undercover roles. In that capacity, the ATF "provided 2, 50 cal. machine guns to traffickers that are loose in Mexico and unaccounted for," the source said.

Yet, the ATF and the Department of Justice did not shut down the operation."

"President Obama and Holder maintain they know nothing about Operation Fast and Furious until it was disclosed in the press."

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