Freehold DM |
Freehold DM wrote:Too much corruption in NY, man. The mob's really sunk their claws in, and the ones that aren't mobbed up set their prices as if they were.How do you start to deal with such massive levels of corruption?
If through some fluke I were to ever find myself in a position to do something about it, I would probably start by investigating which trash companies were really trash companies and not just shells. I'd look at individual contracts, and check to see where competing bids were recieved, and investigate THOSE companies to make sure that they are not only not shells, but also that they were not intimidated or bribed to offer a poor bid. Those companies that were not real would be immediately shut down and the owners would be incarcerated, with something similar happening to those who intimidated or bribed existing companies to fix prices/ensure contracts.
Bitter Thorn |
Bitter Thorn wrote:If through some fluke I were to ever find myself in a position to do something about it, I would probably start by investigating which trash companies were really trash companies and not just shells. I'd look at individual contracts, and check to see where competing bids were recieved, and investigate THOSE companies to make sure that they are not only not shells, but also that they were not intimidated or bribed to offer a poor bid. Those companies that were not real would be immediately shut down and the owners would be incarcerated, with something similar happening to those who intimidated or bribed existing companies to fix prices/ensure contracts.Freehold DM wrote:Too much corruption in NY, man. The mob's really sunk their claws in, and the ones that aren't mobbed up set their prices as if they were.How do you start to deal with such massive levels of corruption?
Why don't state and city governments do this now or historically? It's an open issue how corrupt these systems have been for decades. Why is this just accepted?
Freehold DM |
Freehold DM wrote:Why don't state and city governments do this now or historically? It's an open issue how corrupt these systems have been for decades. Why is this just accepted?Bitter Thorn wrote:If through some fluke I were to ever find myself in a position to do something about it, I would probably start by investigating which trash companies were really trash companies and not just shells. I'd look at individual contracts, and check to see where competing bids were recieved, and investigate THOSE companies to make sure that they are not only not shells, but also that they were not intimidated or bribed to offer a poor bid. Those companies that were not real would be immediately shut down and the owners would be incarcerated, with something similar happening to those who intimidated or bribed existing companies to fix prices/ensure contracts.Freehold DM wrote:Too much corruption in NY, man. The mob's really sunk their claws in, and the ones that aren't mobbed up set their prices as if they were.How do you start to deal with such massive levels of corruption?
Why do bad things happen to good people? Come on, man, it's not like the cops and federales aren't making attempts to shut these guys down. Not every case on the subject makes the papers, and when they do they are occasionally buried deep in where people won't see it. There was a recent development where a semi-high profile one on Staten Island was shut down. But it takes time and effort, and the mob is actually good at what they do. It's ouroborean at times, and sisyphan when it isn't, but there are occasional victories.
LazarX |
Xpltvdeleted wrote:LOL! He didn't make the rules, or lobby for them. Playing by the rules makes him a hypocrite?Bitter Thorn wrote:Unless I missed it, this article left something out that the original included...after he got his free golf cart (presumably to prove a point) he donated it to charity, thereby claiming a second tax break for a charitable donation. Hypocracy thy name is fiscal conservatism.
Yes it does. he's chiding something that he considers a problem and deliberately compounding it as well. You can't get more hypocritical than that example.
LazarX |
I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but I don't trust the government to keep the roads fixed.
They're not exactly going to fix themselves. On the other hand the New Jersey Turnpike Authority may be an example of a middle ground approach, the Authority is essentially a private utility that's overseen by NJ DOT. It works pretty well.
However the main problem here is that over the last few decades we've been very eager to build super highways wherever we could find an excuse to lay down asphalt. In the process, it's wrecked public transportation and left us with more infrastructure than we seem to be able or willing to maintain.
Bitter Thorn |
Bitter Thorn wrote:Why do bad things happen to good people? Come on, man, it's not like the cops and federales aren't making attempts to shut these guys down. Not every case on the subject makes the papers, and when they do they are occasionally buried deep in where people won't see it. There was a recent development where a semi-high profile one on Staten Island was shut down. But it takes time and effort, and the mob is actually good at what they do. It's ouroborean at times, and sisyphan when it isn't, but there are occasional victories.Freehold DM wrote:Why don't state and city governments do this now or historically? It's an open issue how corrupt these systems have been for decades. Why is this just accepted?Bitter Thorn wrote:If through some fluke I were to ever find myself in a position to do something about it, I would probably start by investigating which trash companies were really trash companies and not just shells. I'd look at individual contracts, and check to see where competing bids were recieved, and investigate THOSE companies to make sure that they are not only not shells, but also that they were not intimidated or bribed to offer a poor bid. Those companies that were not real would be immediately shut down and the owners would be incarcerated, with something similar happening to those who intimidated or bribed existing companies to fix prices/ensure contracts.Freehold DM wrote:Too much corruption in NY, man. The mob's really sunk their claws in, and the ones that aren't mobbed up set their prices as if they were.How do you start to deal with such massive levels of corruption?
I suspect the governments in question are more corrupt than the mob, but I'm still curious why voters seem to just accept the status quo of organized crime and government.
Perhaps people feel that they are too insignificant to make a difference, and they just stick their heads in the sand like so many other things all over the country.
Bitter Thorn |
Bitter Thorn wrote:Yes it does. he's chiding something that he considers a problem and deliberately compounding it as well. You can't get more hypocritical than that example.Xpltvdeleted wrote:LOL! He didn't make the rules, or lobby for them. Playing by the rules makes him a hypocrite?Bitter Thorn wrote:Unless I missed it, this article left something out that the original included...after he got his free golf cart (presumably to prove a point) he donated it to charity, thereby claiming a second tax break for a charitable donation. Hypocracy thy name is fiscal conservatism.
This logic is completely lost on me. Sorry.
Bitter Thorn |
Bitter Thorn wrote:
I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but I don't trust the government to keep the roads fixed.
They're not exactly going to fix themselves. On the other hand the New Jersey Turnpike Authority may be an example of a middle ground approach, the Authority is essentially a private utility that's overseen by NJ DOT. It works pretty well.
However the main problem here is that over the last few decades we've been very eager to build super highways wherever we could find an excuse to lay down asphalt. In the process, it's wrecked public transportation and left us with more infrastructure than we seem to be able or willing to maintain.
I thought it was clear that larger point is that if government fails to carry out its most basic functions competently and with out massive corruption. then why would we want to expand the role of a government system that is not trustworthy or competent (especially with the death penalty or health care, for instance).
When I see things that are stupid and broken my first impulse is not to make those things bigger and more powerful by force.
The DHS is a perfect example of this. When massive government bureaucracy failed miserably the government's immediate response was to massively expand the power, scope, and intrusiveness of government bureaucracy.
The result seems to be that we lost massive amounts of money and freedom, and we are not really any safer.
Bitter Thorn |
Don't you love the government?
Pittsburgh man latest to have home accidentally demolished
"Experiences like Hall's are distressingly common."
Wow
Bitter Thorn |
houstonderek wrote:I could NOT put it better my man. One of my best friends is a teacher as well as a small business owner, and he's really gotten into the "the government is out to...Freehold DM wrote:They usually do. Garbage strikes, subway shutdowns. School strikes. Public service unions have no concern for civilians, usually. If the UAW decided to lay it down, that's no biggie to most people on the day to day (and I tend to buy Japanese anyway, no no big whoop), but taking a city hostage to make a point rarely endears anyone to the public service union's cause.houstonderek wrote:Oh, he's done several things I strongly disagree with, and technically I work for him too. However, there are better and worse ways(not necessarily right and wrong) to go about doing things, and, if this conspiracy theory is correct, then santiation truly picked one of the worse ways.Freehold DM wrote:The guy IS kind of a jerk. I tend to believe the sanitation workers angle, though. NYC public service union workers have always been a PITA.houstonderek wrote:That blew my wife away actually. Although realistically the area was just as hosed as we were and was in for a lot of shoveling, the mayor did a good job of rallying the people around him. Bloomberg didn't, but there are a number of conspiracy theories flying around as to why not, everything from a rather believable sanitation slowdown semi-strike to a highly unlikely anti-Bloomberg campaign within his own staff that worked to manipulate information and plow key streets in his immediate vicinity to make him look bad and ruin his reputation in the name of revenge for city employees everywhere.Bitter Thorn wrote:Mayor Bloomberg under fire for handling of blizzardYou should post a story about Cory Booker of Newark as a counterpoint to Bloomberg's poor performance. Dude rocked during the blizzard, apparently.
Freehold DM |
Freehold DM wrote:...houstonderek wrote:I could NOT put it better my man. One of my best friends is a teacher as well as a small business owner, and he's really gotten into the "theFreehold DM wrote:They usually do. Garbage strikes, subway shutdowns. School strikes. Public service unions have no concern for civilians, usually. If the UAW decided to lay it down, that's no biggie to most people on the day to day (and I tend to buy Japanese anyway, no no big whoop), but taking a city hostage to make a point rarely endears anyone to the public service union's cause.houstonderek wrote:Oh, he's done several things I strongly disagree with, and technically I work for him too. However, there are better and worse ways(not necessarily right and wrong) to go about doing things, and, if this conspiracy theory is correct, then santiation truly picked one of the worse ways.Freehold DM wrote:The guy IS kind of a jerk. I tend to believe the sanitation workers angle, though. NYC public service union workers have always been a PITA.houstonderek wrote:That blew my wife away actually. Although realistically the area was just as hosed as we were and was in for a lot of shoveling, the mayor did a good job of rallying the people around him. Bloomberg didn't, but there are a number of conspiracy theories flying around as to why not, everything from a rather believable sanitation slowdown semi-strike to a highly unlikely anti-Bloomberg campaign within his own staff that worked to manipulate information and plow key streets in his immediate vicinity to make him look bad and ruin his reputation in the name of revenge for city employees everywhere.Bitter Thorn wrote:Mayor Bloomberg under fire for handling of blizzardYou should post a story about Cory Booker of Newark as a counterpoint to Bloomberg's poor performance. Dude rocked during the blizzard, apparently.
Yeah, I was out riding my bike in that. They really do just kinda bury you in there, and as grateful as we are to have streets plowed, the plows do handle like a Y-Wing with a damaged nacelle.
TriOmegaZero |
LazarX wrote:This logic is completely lost on me. Sorry.Bitter Thorn wrote:Yes it does. he's chiding something that he considers a problem and deliberately compounding it as well. You can't get more hypocritical than that example.
LOL! He didn't make the rules, or lobby for them. Playing by the rules makes him a hypocrite?
You can't say X is bad, while practicing X, without being a hypocrite. It doesn't matter if someone else is enabling you to be a hypocrite, although they are at fault as well.
Bitter Thorn |
Bitter Thorn wrote:You can't say X is bad, while practicing X, without being a hypocrite. It doesn't matter if someone else is enabling you to be a hypocrite, although they are at fault as well.LazarX wrote:This logic is completely lost on me. Sorry.Bitter Thorn wrote:Yes it does. he's chiding something that he considers a problem and deliberately compounding it as well. You can't get more hypocritical than that example.
LOL! He didn't make the rules, or lobby for them. Playing by the rules makes him a hypocrite?
OK, I can see that I suppose.
Kirth Gersen |
Bitter Thorn |
Bitter Thorn wrote:26 Tea Party Republicans actually willing to put their votes where their mouths are is indeed good news. Would that there were more, and active on other personal liberty issues as well.A tiny bit of good news for a change.
I wish it was more meaningful, but it's good to see some opposition to this political steamroller.
Freehold DM |
Bitter Thorn wrote:26 Tea Party Republicans actually willing to put their votes where their mouths are is indeed good news. Would that there were more, and active on other personal liberty issues as well.A tiny bit of good news for a change.
Hnn. Interesting indeed. And this is coming from a stauch Tea Party foe. Still, stopped clocks...
Bitter Thorn |
Kirth Gersen wrote:Hnn. Interesting indeed. And this is coming from a stauch Tea Party foe. Still, stopped clocks...Bitter Thorn wrote:26 Tea Party Republicans actually willing to put their votes where their mouths are is indeed good news. Would that there were more, and active on other personal liberty issues as well.A tiny bit of good news for a change.
Hey! I resemble that remark! ;)
Kirth Gersen |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And this is coming from a stauch Tea Party foe.
I'm a great supporter of what they claim to be about: smaller government, greater citizen involvement and empowerment, personal liberty as a paramound virtue (constrained by the equal liberty of others), dismantling of needlessly outdated and fundamentally unjust laws, and reduction of bureaucracy.
I'm an equally dedicated opponent of what too many of them seem to be headed towards: xenophobia, theocracy, corporate enslavement of citizens, anti-science, glorification of gun violence as an end in itself.
Freehold DM |
NY Rep. Lee resigns after shirtless photo surfaces
D-bag!
Not to play devil's advocate, but I've never understood why it was any of our business what some elected official does behind closed doors.
Kirth Gersen |
Penny-wise and pound-foolish: Gov. Rick Perry cuts the legs out from one of the most important professions in Texas.
Almost every state in the U.S. requires professional licensure for geoscience work; eliminating it is like eliminating the need for a surgeon to have any credentials. And what Perry seems not to realize is that the TBPG is actually a net revenue earner, bringing in more money in dues than it costs the state to continue operating -- so his effort to "save money" by "cutting waste" in this case will actually cost him much-needed revenue, in addition to damaging the most important industry in the state (oil & gas). Companies that do geoscience work are likely to prefer to operate out of states that acknowledge their expertise and prevent unqualified yahoos from undercutting them.
Jeremy Mac Donald |
Bitter Thorn wrote:Not to play devil's advocate, but I've never understood why it was any of our business what some elected official does behind closed doors.NY Rep. Lee resigns after shirtless photo surfaces
D-bag!
I agree but they need to work harder to keep it behind closed doors.
If you have a mistress its none of our business but if your routinely being outed by random citizens then that is going to get in the way of your being able to govern.
In this sense its not that he was cheating on his wife and family that I think is the fatal flaw - its that he was posting pictures of himself to random people on Craig's List.
Bitter Thorn |
Freehold DM wrote:Bitter Thorn wrote:Not to play devil's advocate, but I've never understood why it was any of our business what some elected official does behind closed doors.NY Rep. Lee resigns after shirtless photo surfaces
D-bag!
I agree but they need to work harder to keep it behind closed doors.
If you have a mistress its none of our business but if your routinely being outed by random citizens then that is going to get in the way of your being able to govern.
In this sense its not that he was cheating on his wife and family that I think is the fatal flaw - its that he was posting pictures of himself to random people on Craig's List.
+1
It's the stunning stupidity that bothers me the most.
Doodlebug Anklebiter |
NY Rep. Lee resigns after shirtless photo surfaces
D-bag!
Hee hee! Doesn't he know you're supposed to put pictures of your junk on Craigslist.
Stupid Republicans.
Bitter Thorn |
Bitter Thorn wrote:NY Rep. Lee resigns after shirtless photo surfaces
D-bag!
Hee hee! Doesn't he know you're supposed to put pictures of your junk on Craigslist.
Stupid Republicans.
It's only a matter of time before some elected cretin does it.
Bitter Thorn |
A girl in New York City was sentenced to 12 months in jail for telling police she did not know who attacked and injured her at school while her rapist, a jail worker and serial rapist, get probation. Talk about a miscarriage of justice.
I'm swiping this for obvious reasons.
Freehold DM |
Operation Gunrunner cover up: ATF threatened with contempt charge
Obama justice dept gives thousands of weapons to Mexican drug lords
the title of the last link and the issue discussed in the article are a bit apart from each other. The guns seem to be legally
purchased and then walked across the border, this might be more an issue for law enforcement as opposed to administration.Bitter Thorn |
Bitter Thorn wrote:Operation Gunrunner cover up: ATF threatened with contempt charge
Obama justice dept gives thousands of weapons to Mexican drug lords
the title of the last link and the issue discussed in the article are a bit apart from each other. The guns seem to be legally
purchased and then walked across the border, this might be more an issue for law enforcement as opposed to administration.
I doubt ATFE would walk thousands of US guns into the hand of the cartels without a green light from Justice. I'm not sure about the State dept.
I'll be happy to provide some more links.
Bitter Thorn |
CBS Gun shop owner expressed concerns early on in "gunwalker" scandal
Project Gunrunner update: ATF ignored warnings, DOJ ignores document requests
Friction Grows Between Lawmakers and DOJ Over 'Project Gunrunner' Probe
"Project Gunrunner" scandal CBS video
NPR Congress Threatens ATF With Contempt In Border Weapons Probe
The CBS video is a good place to start.
Bitter Thorn |
This has been going on for a long time, and the Justice dept has been bragging about this operation for years. I can't imagine that Holder and Obama and Napalitano didn't know anything about this. This operation also received $10,000,000 in stimulus money.
Pro Publica: Inspector General Points Out Flaws in ATF Gunrunning Program (10-7-2009)
Freehold DM |
Freehold DM wrote:Bitter Thorn wrote:Operation Gunrunner cover up: ATF threatened with contempt charge
Obama justice dept gives thousands of weapons to Mexican drug lords
the title of the last link and the issue discussed in the article are a bit apart from each other. The guns seem to be legally
purchased and then walked across the border, this might be more an issue for law enforcement as opposed to administration.I doubt ATFE would walk thousands of US guns into the hand of the cartels without a green light from Justice. I'm not sure about the State dept.
I'll be happy to provide some more links.
hnn. Still not buying the idea of a conspiracy. I think these guns are being purchased legallt, and while I am not up on gun laws, I do recall a great hue and cry being raised when it was being considered that not just anyone would be able to buy a gun around the time Obama first came into office (he's going to take our guns away! Etc.) Still, I will check out your links.
Bitter Thorn |
Bitter Thorn wrote:Freehold DM wrote:Bitter Thorn wrote:Operation Gunrunner cover up: ATF threatened with contempt charge
Obama justice dept gives thousands of weapons to Mexican drug lords
the title of the last link and the issue discussed in the article are a bit apart from each other. The guns seem to be legally
purchased and then walked across the border, this might be more an issue for law enforcement as opposed to administration.I doubt ATFE would walk thousands of US guns into the hand of the cartels without a green light from Justice. I'm not sure about the State dept.
I'll be happy to provide some more links.
hnn. Still not buying the idea of a conspiracy. I think these guns are being purchased legallt, and while I am not up on gun laws, I do recall a great hue and cry being raised when it was being considered that not just anyone would be able to buy a gun around the time Obama first came into office (he's going to take our guns away! Etc.) Still, I will check out your links.
I don't know that I would call it a conspiracy. I just think it's bad policy and incredible hypocrisy especially in light of the "90% of Mexican drug lord guns came from US gun stores" campaign of lies.
Project Gunrunner: Obama's Stimulus-Funded Border Nightmare
Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth STRATFOR
This is just the way that law enforcement does business these days. The DEA does the same kind of thing all the time. There just isn't any real accountability.
Bitter Thorn |
The 90% lie is also published in this GAO report.
U.S. Efforts to Combat Arms Trafficking to Mexico Face Planning and Coordination Challenges
It appears the State dept was also at least aware of this operation, so Hillary probably was aware. Of course these efforts date back to the corrupt and incompetent Bush administration too. $76,6000,000 in taxpayer dollars for fiscal 2004 - 2008.
Bitter Thorn |
ATF UNDER SIEGE Time 6-24-1995
Interesting old article about corruption and racism in Clinton's ATF.
Bitter Thorn |
"In a second, equally explosive disclosure, a law enforcement source tells Fox News, that ATF undercover agents were acting as the straw buyers and purchasing guns using government-issued false identifications and then providing those guns to cartel traffickers to gain credibility in their undercover roles. In that capacity, the ATF "provided 2, 50 cal. machine guns to traffickers that are loose in Mexico and unaccounted for," the source said.
Yet, the ATF and the Department of Justice did not shut down the operation."
"President Obama and Holder maintain they know nothing about Operation Fast and Furious until it was disclosed in the press."