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Government folly


Off-Topic Discussions

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Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

NPC Dave wrote:

I will post something I learned yesterday...

It is well known that once you get chicken pox as a child, you are pretty much immune for the rest of you life(barring some immunity system disorder). However, some people could get shingles much later in life.

What is much more recently known, is that it turns out your immunity to chicken pox actually wanes later in life, which makes you more susceptible to shingles...however...by being exposed to children who are sick or recovering from chicken pox, your body gets exposed once again and builds up immunity again. A natural "booster shot" if you will. Elderly may be more vulnerable to shingles because they aren't exposed to children with chickenpox, it at least is an influencing factor.

The government mandated a chicken pox vaccine in the 1990s. The claim was that chicken pox is dangerous, which it isn't(again unless your immune system has a serious problem). The real reason was Merck wanted to sell lots of chicken pox vaccine. So they began immunizing children against chicken pox. Now chicken pox is much less frequent...

Annnnndddd shingles is on the rise. You now know why, and it is going to get worse. Be prepared for a shingles epidemic amongst adults, at least in the US, which is worse than chicken pox as a kid. Some children are even coming down with shingles, which never happened before.

But fear not, Merck to the rescue! For only $200, you too can get vaccinated against shingles...which may work, or may not...and it may have adverse side effects...we will all know in another 15 years or so.

An example of how getting the government involved in sickness care, creates a real problem where none existed before...

So a private company (mis)uses the legistlative process to boost profits, but the government is at fault? That is an...interesting perspective. Isn't that like blaming the hammer for driving a nail?

Down with hammers!


bugleyman wrote:
NPC Dave wrote:

I will post something I learned yesterday...

It is well known that once you get chicken pox as a child, you are pretty much immune for the rest of you life(barring some immunity system disorder). However, some people could get shingles much later in life.

What is much more recently known, is that it turns out your immunity to chicken pox actually wanes later in life, which makes you more susceptible to shingles...however...by being exposed to children who are sick or recovering from chicken pox, your body gets exposed once again and builds up immunity again. A natural "booster shot" if you will. Elderly may be more vulnerable to shingles because they aren't exposed to children with chickenpox, it at least is an influencing factor.

The government mandated a chicken pox vaccine in the 1990s. The claim was that chicken pox is dangerous, which it isn't(again unless your immune system has a serious problem). The real reason was Merck wanted to sell lots of chicken pox vaccine. So they began immunizing children against chicken pox. Now chicken pox is much less frequent...

Annnnndddd shingles is on the rise. You now know why, and it is going to get worse. Be prepared for a shingles epidemic amongst adults, at least in the US, which is worse than chicken pox as a kid. Some children are even coming down with shingles, which never happened before.

But fear not, Merck to the rescue! For only $200, you too can get vaccinated against shingles...which may work, or may not...and it may have adverse side effects...we will all know in another 15 years or so.

An example of how getting the government involved in sickness care, creates a real problem where none existed before...

So a private company (mis)uses the legistlative process to boost profits, but the government is at fault? That is an...interesting perspective. Isn't that like blaming the hammer for driving a nail?

Down with hammers!

I fail to see your logic here. Of course the government is at fault; I don't recall anyone saying that Merck was blameless.

The hammer driving the nail analogy is interesting. Hammers are for driving nails and governments are for hurting people. Does that make it OK when they do what they are made to do?

Saying the government is not at fault for being used by a corrupt corporation seems to me like when an angry spouse hires a hit man. Is the hit man blameless? I don't see how.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Except governments aren't for hurting us -- they are us. Merck took the action; the government was the medium they (mis)used. Looks to me more like an argument for openness and accountability in government than anything else. It certainly seems more than a little odd to look at this situation and conclude "look -- the government did this!" After all, there are plenty of bad ideas that actually originate in government -- this (apparently) isn't one of them.


bugleyman wrote:

Except governments aren't for hurting us. They are us. Merck took the action; the government was the medium they (mis) used. Seems like an argument for openness and accountability, rather than one against government.

There are plenty of bad ideas that actually originate with the government -- this isn't one of them.

Do you seriously think Jan Brewer is you or rather that she represents you?

My state local and federal governments most certainly do not represent me.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people is a tragic joke.


Bitter Thorn wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
NPC Dave wrote:

I will post something I learned yesterday...

It is well known that once you get chicken pox as a child, you are pretty much immune for the rest of you life(barring some immunity system disorder). However, some people could get shingles much later in life.

What is much more recently known, is that it turns out your immunity to chicken pox actually wanes later in life, which makes you more susceptible to shingles...however...by being exposed to children who are sick or recovering from chicken pox, your body gets exposed once again and builds up immunity again. A natural "booster shot" if you will. Elderly may be more vulnerable to shingles because they aren't exposed to children with chickenpox, it at least is an influencing factor.

The government mandated a chicken pox vaccine in the 1990s. The claim was that chicken pox is dangerous, which it isn't(again unless your immune system has a serious problem). The real reason was Merck wanted to sell lots of chicken pox vaccine. So they began immunizing children against chicken pox. Now chicken pox is much less frequent...

Annnnndddd shingles is on the rise. You now know why, and it is going to get worse. Be prepared for a shingles epidemic amongst adults, at least in the US, which is worse than chicken pox as a kid. Some children are even coming down with shingles, which never happened before.

But fear not, Merck to the rescue! For only $200, you too can get vaccinated against shingles...which may work, or may not...and it may have adverse side effects...we will all know in another 15 years or so.

An example of how getting the government involved in sickness care, creates a real problem where none existed before...

So a private company (mis)uses the legistlative process to boost profits, but the government is at fault? That is an...interesting perspective. Isn't that like blaming the hammer for driving a nail?

Down with hammers!

I fail to see your logic here. Of course the...

I'm with the bug on this one(also, considering starting a new political party with him dressed up as Blue Beetle[the real one] and myself dressed as Booster Gold...VOTE BLUE AND GOLD, PEOPLE!). That you didn't say Merck was blameless, unfortunately, means to some that they are not. What would you have done to Merck in this instance? Also, keep in mind the measles, mumps, rubella innoculations as well as the damage that we all know chicken pox can do. Unsure about shingles, though.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Bitter Thorn wrote:

Do you seriously think Jan Brewer is you or rather that she represents you?

My state local and federal governments most certainly do not represent me.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people is a tragic joke.

That may be -- It certainly ain't perfect. I still see Merck as the bad guy here. YMMV.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Merck can't mandate that the vaccine be used.

State governments can and did, and the FDA approved the vaccine. Without the government having the power to do this, this failed health experiment would not have happened.

I see Merck, the FDA and the state legislatures as the bad guys here.

Here is a primer on shingles. Shingles is far worse than chickenpox, even if the vaccine reduced the 100 deaths due to chickenpox every year(again, only in people with severe immune system problems) any reduction will be more than offset in deaths due to shingles.

If we want to get into a general discussion on vaccines, it was a great medical technology for its time...which was the 19th and early 20th century. It's time should have passed, it hasn't because the government is heavily involved in sickness care.

For example, we now know that it is impossible to die of any type of flu provided your Vitamin C levels do not drop too low. Guess what the primary treatment for flu was during the great flu epidemic of 1918? Aspirin. And what does aspirin do? Deplete your body of Vitamin C. To figure this out, we had to discover Vitamin C, which was done in 1932.

Flu shots? Completely outdated technology that wastes money and causes harm.

Even after it was discovered citrus fruits prevented scurvy, a couple of centuries later scurvy plagued the Antarctica expeditions...because medicine regressed. I am not a doctor, but after taking responsibility for my own health I have learned just how much medicine has regressed in the United States over the last few decades in so many(but not all) areas.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

NPC Dave wrote:
If we want to get into a general discussion on vaccines, it was a great medical technology for its time...which was the 19th and early 20th century. It's time should have passed, it hasn't because the government is heavily involved in sickness care.

So...let me see if I have this right.

It is possible that flu deaths in the 1918 pademic were increased by aspirin-induced scurvy, ergo all vaccination is bad? Further, as vaccination is promoted by the government, the government is bad?

If nothing else, those are some interesting assertions. :P


NPC Dave, it's disturbing how you're able to weave facts, speculation, pseudoscience, paranoia, and outright misinformation together into bite-sized pills, presented as though they're all fact.

Scarab Sages

Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:

Has this been posted anywhere yet?

Edited to a less biased link.

If an article does not pertain to the Americaniski that should be noted. Took me a while to figure out this was UK.
It was a little weird to me, but I know that racial slurs/overall shorthand vary WILDLY depending on where you are.

I'm back.

Freedom lost.

I don't remember "Freedom" being on the ballot. ;-)

Welcome back.


Moff Rimmer wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:

Has this been posted anywhere yet?

Edited to a less biased link.

If an article does not pertain to the Americaniski that should be noted. Took me a while to figure out this was UK.
It was a little weird to me, but I know that racial slurs/overall shorthand vary WILDLY depending on where you are.

I'm back.

Freedom lost.

I don't remember "Freedom" being on the ballot. ;-)

Welcome back.

I'm so disgusted with Colorado today.


Bitter Thorn wrote:
I'm so disgusted with Colorado today.

I assume that it doesn't matter much to you whether the plutocrats in charge are "red" or "blue," so I'm guessing it's the health care opt-out referendum failing to pass that has you so... well... bitter?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

Shingles hurts like hell, I can testify from experience.

Happily, the lovely Evil-Communist-Soul-Destroying-People-Crushing-Engine-Of-Evil that is the NHS treated me very well.

I'm sure that Bitter Thorn is a fan of fair and balanced reporting, yet somehow I can't find the 'Government Success' thread he made. Can anyone help me out?


NPC Dave wrote:

Merck can't mandate that the vaccine be used.

State governments can and did, and the FDA approved the vaccine. Without the government having the power to do this, this failed health experiment would not have happened.

I see Merck, the FDA and the state legislatures as the bad guys here.

Here is a primer on shingles. Shingles is far worse than chickenpox, even if the vaccine reduced the 100 deaths due to chickenpox every year(again, only in people with severe immune system problems) any reduction will be more than offset in deaths due to shingles.

If we want to get into a general discussion on vaccines, it was a great medical technology for its time...which was the 19th and early 20th century. It's time should have passed, it hasn't because the government is heavily involved in sickness care.

For example, we now know that it is impossible to die of any type of flu provided your Vitamin C levels do not drop too low. Guess what the primary treatment for flu was during the great flu epidemic of 1918? Aspirin. And what does aspirin do? Deplete your body of Vitamin C. To figure this out, we had to discover Vitamin C, which was done in 1932.

Flu shots? Completely outdated technology that wastes money and causes harm.

Even after it was discovered citrus fruits prevented scurvy, a couple of centuries later scurvy plagued the Antarctica expeditions...because medicine regressed. I am not a doctor, but after taking responsibility for my own health I have learned just how much medicine has regressed in the United States over the last few decades in so many(but not all) areas.

You are still quite silent on measels, mumps, rubella, polio, and the very real possiblity of lifelong sterility in men due to chicken pox.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
I'm so disgusted with Colorado today.
I assume that it doesn't matter much to you whether the plutocrats in charge are "red" or "blue," so I'm guessing it's the health care opt-out referendum failing to pass that has you so... well... bitter?

I'm not pleased with Buck losing. I supported him in the primary/caucus process. Maes refusal to withdraw from the race gave the governors race to Hickenlooper who detests El Paso county. Basically the initiatives to hold the line or push back government spending were soundly rejected and votes to raise taxes generally passed. My county also voted to ban Medical marijuana dispensaries in unincorporated El Paso county. Coloradans seem to want less control over their own lives and money.


Bitter Thorn wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
I'm so disgusted with Colorado today.
I assume that it doesn't matter much to you whether the plutocrats in charge are "red" or "blue," so I'm guessing it's the health care opt-out referendum failing to pass that has you so... well... bitter?
I'm not pleased with Buck losing. I supported him in the primary/caucus process. Maes refusal to withdraw from the race gave the governors race to Hickenlooper who detests El Paso county. Basically the initiatives to hold the line or push back government spending were soundly rejected and votes to raise taxes generally passed. My county also voted to ban Medical marijuana dispensaries in unincorporated El Paso county. Coloradans seem to want less control over their own lives and money.

I have heard as much before from other people outside of NY and similar stuff from people upstate. How exactly does your guy hate El Paso county? Or does he just underfund it to fund his own county? Explain.


Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
I'm so disgusted with Colorado today.
I assume that it doesn't matter much to you whether the plutocrats in charge are "red" or "blue," so I'm guessing it's the health care opt-out referendum failing to pass that has you so... well... bitter?
I'm not pleased with Buck losing. I supported him in the primary/caucus process. Maes refusal to withdraw from the race gave the governors race to Hickenlooper who detests El Paso county. Basically the initiatives to hold the line or push back government spending were soundly rejected and votes to raise taxes generally passed. My county also voted to ban Medical marijuana dispensaries in unincorporated El Paso county. Coloradans seem to want less control over their own lives and money.
I have heard as much before from other people outside of NY and similar stuff from people upstate. How exactly does your guy hate El Paso county? Or does he just underfund it to fund his own county? Explain.

Hickenlooper looks down on rural and military families as backward and stupid for distrusting him and massive invasive government. He looks at those who disagree with his policies as paranoid hicks to be condescended to like children with a learning disability. He will use his power to punish us and reward Denver. This is the way it's been done for decades. Most of Colorado's population is in the Denver metro area, so statewide leftist candidates only need Denver and Pueblo to win the state. It works for them to funnel money into the metro areas they want support from, and they may condescend to pay a little lip service to the rest of the state around election time.


Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
I'm so disgusted with Colorado today.
I assume that it doesn't matter much to you whether the plutocrats in charge are "red" or "blue," so I'm guessing it's the health care opt-out referendum failing to pass that has you so... well... bitter?
I'm not pleased with Buck losing. I supported him in the primary/caucus process. Maes refusal to withdraw from the race gave the governors race to Hickenlooper who detests El Paso county. Basically the initiatives to hold the line or push back government spending were soundly rejected and votes to raise taxes generally passed. My county also voted to ban Medical marijuana dispensaries in unincorporated El Paso county. Coloradans seem to want less control over their own lives and money.
I have heard as much before from other people outside of NY and similar stuff from people upstate. How exactly does your guy hate El Paso county? Or does he just underfund it to fund his own county? Explain.
Hickenlooper looks down on rural and military families as backward and stupid for distrusting him and massive invasive government. He looks at those who disagree with his policies as paranoid hicks to be condescended to like children with a learning disability. He will use his power to punish us and reward Denver. This is the way it's been done for decades. Most of Colorado's population is in the Denver metro area, so statewide leftist candidates only need Denver and Pueblo to win the state. It works for them to funnel money into the metro areas they want support from, and they may condescend to pay a little lip service to the rest of the state around election time.

Upon what issues do rural and urban families disagree? Which of these issues concern you personally?


Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
I'm so disgusted with Colorado today.
I assume that it doesn't matter much to you whether the plutocrats in charge are "red" or "blue," so I'm guessing it's the health care opt-out referendum failing to pass that has you so... well... bitter?
I'm not pleased with Buck losing. I supported him in the primary/caucus process. Maes refusal to withdraw from the race gave the governors race to Hickenlooper who detests El Paso county. Basically the initiatives to hold the line or push back government spending were soundly rejected and votes to raise taxes generally passed. My county also voted to ban Medical marijuana dispensaries in unincorporated El Paso county. Coloradans seem to want less control over their own lives and money.
I have heard as much before from other people outside of NY and similar stuff from people upstate. How exactly does your guy hate El Paso county? Or does he just underfund it to fund his own county? Explain.
Hickenlooper looks down on rural and military families as backward and stupid for distrusting him and massive invasive government. He looks at those who disagree with his policies as paranoid hicks to be condescended to like children with a learning disability. He will use his power to punish us and reward Denver. This is the way it's been done for decades. Most of Colorado's population is in the Denver metro area, so statewide leftist candidates only need Denver and Pueblo to win the state. It works for them to funnel money into the metro areas they want support from, and they may condescend to pay a little lip service to the rest of the state around election time.
Upon what issues do rural and urban families disagree? Which of these issues concern you personally?

In very broad and general terms I would cite issues such as owners rights to their own land and property, self defense, medical and educational choice, and government intrusion and taxation in general. These issues tend to be of more concern to me.

Rural families are also apt to be more religiously conservative and hawkish on military and international affairs. These are issues I am more likely to have divergent views regarding.


Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
I'm so disgusted with Colorado today.
I assume that it doesn't matter much to you whether the plutocrats in charge are "red" or "blue," so I'm guessing it's the health care opt-out referendum failing to pass that has you so... well... bitter?
I'm not pleased with Buck losing. I supported him in the primary/caucus process. Maes refusal to withdraw from the race gave the governors race to Hickenlooper who detests El Paso county. Basically the initiatives to hold the line or push back government spending were soundly rejected and votes to raise taxes generally passed. My county also voted to ban Medical marijuana dispensaries in unincorporated El Paso county. Coloradans seem to want less control over their own lives and money.
I have heard as much before from other people outside of NY and similar stuff from people upstate. How exactly does your guy hate El Paso county? Or does he just underfund it to fund his own county? Explain.
Hickenlooper looks down on rural and military families as backward and stupid for distrusting him and massive invasive government. He looks at those who disagree with his policies as paranoid hicks to be condescended to like children with a learning disability. He will use his power to punish us and reward Denver. This is the way it's been done for decades. Most of Colorado's population is in the Denver metro area, so statewide leftist candidates only need Denver and Pueblo to win the state. It works for them to funnel money into the metro areas they want support from, and they may condescend to pay a little lip service to the rest of the state around election time.
Upon what issues do rural and urban families disagree? Which of these issues concern you personally?
In very broad and general terms I would cite issues such as owners rights to their own land and property, self defense,...

Hm. Your terms are a bit too broad for me to draw parallels, unfortunately. When you say owner's rights, is he making it more difficult for one to purchase land? In terms of Self defense, is he restricting access to guns? With respect to medical and educational choices, I think those are areas I might understand a bit better, so I'd like more in depth information there. Government intrusion and taxation issues are areas I know we aren't going to see eye to eye on, but I'd still like more info.

In terms of religion and military issues and rural families, natch. Been there before. However, I am all for keeping a healthy divide between religion and government, as I'm sure most(though, unfortunately, not all) are. In terms of miliary issues, I don't think that should play a role in this guy getting into office unless there are a good amount of miliary bases that depend on him approving funding in the area.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Kirth Gersen wrote:
NPC Dave, it's disturbing how you're able to weave facts, speculation, pseudoscience, paranoia, and outright misinformation together into bite-sized pills, presented as though they're all fact.

A lot of medicine used today is claimed to be based on science when it really isn't.

Much of our medicine practiced today is weaved together from speculation, pseudoscience and outright misinformation...into little blue/pink/red pills which are supposed to make you fall asleep/relieve pain/reduce hunger/lower blood pressure.

I find that disturbing.

An excerpt from that article-

"He and his team have shown, again and again, and in many different ways, that much of what biomedical researchers conclude in published studies—conclusions that doctors keep in mind when they prescribe antibiotics or blood-pressure medication, or when they advise us to consume more fiber or less meat, or when they recommend surgery for heart disease or back pain—is misleading, exaggerated, and often flat-out wrong. He charges that as much as 90 percent of the published medical information that doctors rely on is flawed. His work has been widely accepted by the medical community; it has been published in the field’s top journals, where it is heavily cited; and he is a big draw at conferences."

And another article-

The British Medical Journal's "Clinical Evidence" analyzed common medical treatments to evaluate which are supported by sufficient reliable evidence (BMJ, 2007). They reviewed approximately 2,500 treatments and found:

• 13 percent were found to be beneficial

• 23 percent were likely to be beneficial

• Eight percent were as likely to be harmful as beneficial

• Six percent were unlikely to be beneficial

• Four percent were likely to be harmful or ineffective.

• 46 percent were unknown whether they were efficacious or harmful

In the late 1970s, the US government conducted a similar evaluation and found a strikingly similar result. They found that only 10 percent to 20 percent of medical treatment had evidence of efficacy (Office of Technology Assessment, 1978).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
bugleyman wrote:
NPC Dave wrote:
If we want to get into a general discussion on vaccines, it was a great medical technology for its time...which was the 19th and early 20th century. It's time should have passed, it hasn't because the government is heavily involved in sickness care.

So...let me see if I have this right.

It is possible that flu deaths in the 1918 pademic were increased by aspirin-induced scurvy, ergo all vaccination is bad?

Flu shots specifically are "bad" in the sense that they cause harm and are a waste of money.

bugleyman wrote:


Further, as vaccination is promoted by the government, the government is bad?

You dropped the last part of that assertion...

the government is bad at sickness care.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:


You are still quite silent on measels, mumps, rubella, polio, and the very real possiblity of lifelong sterility in men due to chicken pox.

I had read that both mumps and chickenpox can cause sterility in men should they catch it as adults.

But for chickenpox that is stated as being "exceedingly rare". How would such a small concern justify a chickenpox vaccine?

You are correct that I have not addressed every vaccination we have, I wasn't planning to do so. For flu shots the actual scientific research is very clear that they are unnecessary and all aspirin manufacturers should start adding vitamin C for the tablets.

For something like measles, the argument that it wasn't a good idea to start it is much stronger than the argument to stop it now, because many adults would be at risk of contracting measles now. The decision was made in the 1950s and 60s and unfortunately the drop in immunity for adults means there is a known risk in stopping. Since the risk of continuing is still unknown, prudence suggests maintaining the course for now until more can be learned.

So for something like a measles shot, in the long-term it would be beneficial to be "weaned" off this outdated medical technology. Replaced with something that can grant the same immunity to measles that actually contracting measles as a child would do.

Liberty's Edge

Surprise, surprise
Two years for shooting an unarmed, handcuffed man who was lying on the ground in the back? Unless this guy is in solitary 24/7 365, he will die in prison. Unless he moves after he gets out, he will die on the streets.

How could any judge justify giving this light of a sentence? Disgusting.


NPC Dave wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:


You are still quite silent on measels, mumps, rubella, polio, and the very real possiblity of lifelong sterility in men due to chicken pox.

I had read that both mumps and chickenpox can cause sterility in men should they catch it as adults.

But for chickenpox that is stated as being "exceedingly rare". How would such a small concern justify a chickenpox vaccine?

Are you really going to take that kind of risk with your junk?

Okay, I meant that quite humorously, but really. Lots of things are "exceedingly rare" and so most people don't worry about them. However, sterility is no joke, and not something I'm willing to take a risk with. Also, keep in mind my perspective is colored due to me never having chicken pox or anything like that growing up. I pray it never happens to me. The mumps are(were?) also HIGHLY contagious. It's not something I want to play games with.

NPC Dave wrote:
You are correct that I have not addressed every vaccination we have, I wasn't planning to do so. For flu shots the actual scientific research is very clear that they are unnecessary and all aspirin manufacturers should start adding vitamin C for the tablets.

Believe it or not, I'm with you on flu shots. I'm not all that worried about them unless you're dealing with a population whose immune system is compromised. I do think it would be a good idea for those populations, however. Again, I'm biased as I work with such a population, and often help them to get those shots even though I don't get them myself.

NPC Dave wrote:

For something like measles, the argument that it wasn't a good idea to start it is much stronger than the argument to stop it now, because many adults would be at risk of contracting measles now. The decision was made in the 1950s and 60s and unfortunately the drop in immunity for adults means there is a known risk in stopping. Since the risk of continuing is still unknown, prudence suggests maintaining the course for now until more can be learned.

So for something like a measles shot, in the long-term it would be beneficial to be "weaned" off this outdated medical technology. Replaced with something that can grant the same immunity to measles that actually contracting measles as a child would do.

Measels are deadly. I wouldn't wean anyone off of it unless there was a damn good alternative. As much as you complain that this medical technology is outdated, its effectiveness cannot be questioned. Gravity is pretty old too, and yet I'm not about to throw that baby out with the bathwater.


Xpltvdeleted wrote:

Surprise, surprise

Two years for shooting an unarmed, handcuffed man who was lying on the ground in the back? Unless this guy is in solitary 24/7 365, he will die in prison. Unless he moves after he gets out, he will die on the streets.

How could any judge justify giving this light of a sentence? Disgusting.

The only thing more disgusting are the comments beneath the article. Reprehensible.

Liberty's Edge

Freehold DM wrote:
Xpltvdeleted wrote:

Surprise, surprise

Two years for shooting an unarmed, handcuffed man who was lying on the ground in the back? Unless this guy is in solitary 24/7 365, he will die in prison. Unless he moves after he gets out, he will die on the streets.

How could any judge justify giving this light of a sentence? Disgusting.

The only thing more disgusting are the comments beneath the article. Reprehensible.

Yeah, I saw some of those. It is amazing to me that, in this day and age, we can still find people who are ignorant enough to hate based on the color of a person's skin. It's only a matter of time before we're at the point where humanity is so mixed together that we won't be able to tell the difference. Although I'm sure that, even then, people will find a way to discriminate.


Xpltvdeleted wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Xpltvdeleted wrote:

Surprise, surprise

Two years for shooting an unarmed, handcuffed man who was lying on the ground in the back? Unless this guy is in solitary 24/7 365, he will die in prison. Unless he moves after he gets out, he will die on the streets.

How could any judge justify giving this light of a sentence? Disgusting.

The only thing more disgusting are the comments beneath the article. Reprehensible.
Yeah, I saw some of those. It is amazing to me that, in this day and age, we can still find people who are ignorant enough to hate based on the color of a person's skin. It's only a matter of time before we're at the point where humanity is so mixed together that we won't be able to tell the difference. Although I'm sure that, even then, people will find a way to discriminate.

Even then, we'll find something else we don't like. Probably their religion(which seems to be the prevailing headwind nowadays), but maybe their economic status(another popular one), sexual identity(rearing its ugly head again), or marital status(which is surprisingly popular, especially if they are a single parent). We are human. We hate. We hate and hate and hate and hate.


Xpltvdeleted wrote:

Surprise, surprise

Two years for shooting an unarmed, handcuffed man who was lying on the ground in the back? Unless this guy is in solitary 24/7 365, he will die in prison. Unless he moves after he gets out, he will die on the streets.

How could any judge justify giving this light of a sentence? Disgusting.

Sadly predictable.


The final Solution, Sabaton


Justice in the balance (USA Today)

This is surprisingly good reporting by USA Today.

I also find it interesting that many of these crimes have no actual victim.

Misconduct by location

I was shocked that New Orleans didn't list any.


'Prince of Pork' to Chair Appropriations


The Stimulus: The Government Job Creation Myth (Cato; Opinion)


Postal Service Ends 2010 with $8.5 Billion Loss

"The Postal Service receives no direct support from taxpayers."

Haven't the tax payers extended a line of credit to cover the billions in losses of the USPS? Is that indirect support? I'm having trouble with the definition of "direct support" here.


Arsenic bacteria – a post-mortem, a review, and some navel-gazing


HPD: Harris County deputy caught in drug sting with 2 kilos of cocaine


Mayor Bloomberg under fire for handling of blizzard


Problem grave at Arlington now a criminal investigation

Liberty's Edge

Bitter Thorn wrote:
Mayor Bloomberg under fire for handling of blizzard

You should post a story about Cory Booker of Newark as a counterpoint to Bloomberg's poor performance. Dude rocked during the blizzard, apparently.


houstonderek wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Mayor Bloomberg under fire for handling of blizzard
You should post a story about Cory Booker of Newark as a counterpoint to Bloomberg's poor performance. Dude rocked during the blizzard, apparently.

That blew my wife away actually. Although realistically the area was just as hosed as we were and was in for a lot of shoveling, the mayor did a good job of rallying the people around him. Bloomberg didn't, but there are a number of conspiracy theories flying around as to why not, everything from a rather believable sanitation slowdown semi-strike to a highly unlikely anti-Bloomberg campaign within his own staff that worked to manipulate information and plow key streets in his immediate vicinity to make him look bad and ruin his reputation in the name of revenge for city employees everywhere.

Liberty's Edge

Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Mayor Bloomberg under fire for handling of blizzard
You should post a story about Cory Booker of Newark as a counterpoint to Bloomberg's poor performance. Dude rocked during the blizzard, apparently.
That blew my wife away actually. Although realistically the area was just as hosed as we were and was in for a lot of shoveling, the mayor did a good job of rallying the people around him. Bloomberg didn't, but there are a number of conspiracy theories flying around as to why not, everything from a rather believable sanitation slowdown semi-strike to a highly unlikely anti-Bloomberg campaign within his own staff that worked to manipulate information and plow key streets in his immediate vicinity to make him look bad and ruin his reputation in the name of revenge for city employees everywhere.

The guy IS kind of a jerk. I tend to believe the sanitation workers angle, though. NYC public service union workers have always been a PITA.


houstonderek wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Mayor Bloomberg under fire for handling of blizzard
You should post a story about Cory Booker of Newark as a counterpoint to Bloomberg's poor performance. Dude rocked during the blizzard, apparently.
That blew my wife away actually. Although realistically the area was just as hosed as we were and was in for a lot of shoveling, the mayor did a good job of rallying the people around him. Bloomberg didn't, but there are a number of conspiracy theories flying around as to why not, everything from a rather believable sanitation slowdown semi-strike to a highly unlikely anti-Bloomberg campaign within his own staff that worked to manipulate information and plow key streets in his immediate vicinity to make him look bad and ruin his reputation in the name of revenge for city employees everywhere.
The guy IS kind of a jerk. I tend to believe the sanitation workers angle, though. NYC public service union workers have always been a PITA.

Oh, he's done several things I strongly disagree with, and technically I work for him too. However, there are better and worse ways(not necessarily right and wrong) to go about doing things, and, if this conspiracy theory is correct, then santiation truly picked one of the worse ways.

Liberty's Edge

Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Mayor Bloomberg under fire for handling of blizzard
You should post a story about Cory Booker of Newark as a counterpoint to Bloomberg's poor performance. Dude rocked during the blizzard, apparently.
That blew my wife away actually. Although realistically the area was just as hosed as we were and was in for a lot of shoveling, the mayor did a good job of rallying the people around him. Bloomberg didn't, but there are a number of conspiracy theories flying around as to why not, everything from a rather believable sanitation slowdown semi-strike to a highly unlikely anti-Bloomberg campaign within his own staff that worked to manipulate information and plow key streets in his immediate vicinity to make him look bad and ruin his reputation in the name of revenge for city employees everywhere.
The guy IS kind of a jerk. I tend to believe the sanitation workers angle, though. NYC public service union workers have always been a PITA.
Oh, he's done several things I strongly disagree with, and technically I work for him too. However, there are better and worse ways(not necessarily right and wrong) to go about doing things, and, if this conspiracy theory is correct, then santiation truly picked one of the worse ways.

They usually do. Garbage strikes, subway shutdowns. School strikes. Public service unions have no concern for civilians, usually. If the UAW decided to lay it down, that's no biggie to most people on the day to day (and I tend to buy Japanese anyway, no no big whoop), but taking a city hostage to make a point rarely endears anyone to the public service union's cause.


houstonderek wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Mayor Bloomberg under fire for handling of blizzard
You should post a story about Cory Booker of Newark as a counterpoint to Bloomberg's poor performance. Dude rocked during the blizzard, apparently.
That blew my wife away actually. Although realistically the area was just as hosed as we were and was in for a lot of shoveling, the mayor did a good job of rallying the people around him. Bloomberg didn't, but there are a number of conspiracy theories flying around as to why not, everything from a rather believable sanitation slowdown semi-strike to a highly unlikely anti-Bloomberg campaign within his own staff that worked to manipulate information and plow key streets in his immediate vicinity to make him look bad and ruin his reputation in the name of revenge for city employees everywhere.
The guy IS kind of a jerk. I tend to believe the sanitation workers angle, though. NYC public service union workers have always been a PITA.
Oh, he's done several things I strongly disagree with, and technically I work for him too. However, there are better and worse ways(not necessarily right and wrong) to go about doing things, and, if this conspiracy theory is correct, then santiation truly picked one of the worse ways.
They usually do. Garbage strikes, subway shutdowns. School strikes. Public service unions have no concern for civilians, usually. If the UAW decided to lay it down, that's no biggie to most people on the day to day (and I tend to buy Japanese anyway, no no big whoop), but taking a city hostage to make a point rarely endears anyone to the public service union's cause.

I could NOT put it better my man. One of my best friends is a teacher as well as a small business owner, and he's really gotten into the "the government is out to get me, we've got to fight back by any means necessary" mentality- but fails to realize that people going on strike(or a slowdown, which is something I DO NOT agree with) has little to do with the government itself, but the union and its allies that went on strike.


Booker's PR was better, but I'm not sure his results were.

Cory Booker's blizzard tweets get glowing press, but some Newark residents are not impressed


Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Bitter Thorn wrote:
Mayor Bloomberg under fire for handling of blizzard
You should post a story about Cory Booker of Newark as a counterpoint to Bloomberg's poor performance. Dude rocked during the blizzard, apparently.
That blew my wife away actually. Although realistically the area was just as hosed as we were and was in for a lot of shoveling, the mayor did a good job of rallying the people around him. Bloomberg didn't, but there are a number of conspiracy theories flying around as to why not, everything from a rather believable sanitation slowdown semi-strike to a highly unlikely anti-Bloomberg campaign within his own staff that worked to manipulate information and plow key streets in his immediate vicinity to make him look bad and ruin his reputation in the name of revenge for city employees everywhere.
The guy IS kind of a jerk. I tend to believe the sanitation workers angle, though. NYC public service union workers have always been a PITA.
Oh, he's done several things I strongly disagree with, and technically I work for him too. However, there are better and worse ways(not necessarily right and wrong) to go about doing things, and, if this conspiracy theory is correct, then santiation truly picked one of the worse ways.
They usually do. Garbage strikes, subway shutdowns. School strikes. Public service unions have no concern for civilians, usually. If the UAW decided to lay it down, that's no biggie to most people on the day to day (and I tend to buy Japanese anyway, no no big whoop), but taking a city hostage to make a point rarely endears anyone to the public service union's cause.
I could NOT put it better my man. One of my best friends is a teacher as well as a small business owner, and he's really gotten into the "the government is out to...

I think it would be much smarter to privatize the trash services, but the rampant contracting corruption would have to be addressed first.


Too much corruption in NY, man. The mob's really sunk their claws in, and the ones that aren't mobbed up set their prices as if they were.

Liberty's Edge

Bitter Thorn wrote:

Booker's PR was better, but I'm not sure his results were.

Cory Booker's blizzard tweets get glowing press, but some Newark residents are not impressed

Two political rivals and this chick: "Central Ward resident Debbie Harvey said she hadn’t seen a single plow go down Broome Street, where she lives. "Cory Booker says 90 percent of the streets are plowed," she said. "Ain’t no 90 percent."

Apparently, she doesn't know math. Broome can be part of the 10%.

A little background. My mom's family is from Newark, and I lived there for half of my childhood, and this dude is the closest thing to a functioning mayor the city has had in my lifetime.

Yeah, he was grandstanding a bit, but the dude tried. And he's a Dem who's not afraid to make decisions to keep the city out of debt. So I have to give him a pass if he made a goof or two.


I really don't get the attraction of living in a densely populated area.


Freehold DM wrote:
Too much corruption in NY, man. The mob's really sunk their claws in, and the ones that aren't mobbed up set their prices as if they were.

How do you start to deal with such massive levels of corruption?

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