Personally, I did away with the whole wealth per level and made it "Cool Stuff Per Level" instead. Gold is entirely seperated from magical items.
And yes, martial classes need magical items way more then casters do.
The 3.5 magic item compendium basically layed out that DMs SHOULD make items the players want available within whatever treasure level you set for your campain for a reason. If you arent doing this, you are deviating from a basic assumption of the game's design ...This is complete and utter baloney.
I agree as well. Level apporate gear by core does not mean anything you want when you want it. Folks playing that style are not playing by the book.
Nothing wrong with that but it's not the standard way.
The 3.5 magic item compendium basically layed out that DMs SHOULD make items the players want available within whatever treasure level you set for your campain for a reason. If you arent doing this, you are deviating from a basic assumption of the game's design ...This is complete and utter baloney.I agree as well. Level apporate gear by core does not mean anything you want when you want it. Folks playing that style are not playing by the book.
Nothing wrong with that but it's not the standard way.
Yeah it kind of is. Like has been said, having a raging barbarian/fighter specialized in the falchion and the only weapon that "drops" is a small sized +5 unholy sap...yeah sorry that's not going to help anyone.
Level appropriate gear means you should have X amount of raw gold worth of items at level Y, but inherent in that system is the ability to sell things that can't be used by party members to purchase what the party needs.
The 3.5 magic item compendium basically layed out that DMs SHOULD make items the players want available within whatever treasure level you set for your campain for a reason. If you arent doing this, you are deviating from a basic assumption of the game's design ...This is complete and utter baloney.I agree as well. Level apporate gear by core does not mean anything you want when you want it. Folks playing that style are not playing by the book.
Nothing wrong with that but it's not the standard way.
Yeah it kind of is. Like has been said, having a raging barbarian/fighter specialized in the falchion and the only weapon that "drops" is a small sized +5 unholy sap...yeah sorry that's not going to help anyone.
Level appropriate gear means you should have X amount of raw gold worth of items at level Y, but inherent in that system is the ability to sell things that can't be used by party members to purchase what the party needs.
Another dick move I heard of was a GM overloaded their enimeies with a bunch of 1 use items the 75% where used before combat, and they where all very proficient with sundering. So not only did you fight well over powered characters for the level, but you got nothing money wise for it, and you probably lost a few REALLY expensive items along the way too.
Yeah it kind of is. Like has been said, having a raging barbarian/fighter specialized in the falchion and the only weapon that "drops" is a small sized +5 unholy sap...yeah sorry that's not going to help anyone.
Level appropriate gear means you should have X amount of raw gold worth of items at level Y, but inherent in that system is the ability to sell things that can't be used by party members to purchase what the party needs.
Your confused between Level appropriate gear and what you want. By core You may not be able to find the +5 falchion you want. The GM may put it in but he is not mandated by the rules to do so. By core you have a slim chance of anyone having your +5 falchion as it is well above 16'000 gp. So you find someone to craft it or travel from city to city in hopes you randomly roll one.
And while yes you may sell the items again by just the core"standard" assumptions you do not get full price.
Having what you want at the level you want it has nothing to do with Level appropriate gear and is not assumed in the rules.
Yeah it kind of is. Like has been said, having a raging barbarian/fighter specialized in the falchion and the only weapon that "drops" is a small sized +5 unholy sap...yeah sorry that's not going to help anyone.
Level appropriate gear means you should have X amount of raw gold worth of items at level Y, but inherent in that system is the ability to sell things that can't be used by party members to purchase what the party needs.
Your confused between Level appropriate gear and what you want. By core You may not be able to find the +5 falchion you want. The GM may put it in but he is not mandated by the rules to do so. By core you have a slim chance of anyone having your +5 falchion as it is well above 16'000 gp. So you find someone to craft it or travel from city to city in hopes you randomly roll one.
And while yes you may sell the items again by just the core"standard" assumptions you do not get full price.
Having what you want at the level you want it has nothing to do with Level appropriate gear and is not assumed in the rules.
You're confused between what is level appropriate and what is an a$!$##@ DM. If you get no items that can be made use of, then that is not level appropriate treasure, period. If you do not have the option to buy what WILL help your character then we're back to the choose your own adventure analogy. Having access to magic items, past like 5th level or so, is an essential part of D&D in that magic ends up being a more efficient way to solve problems than skills.
The problem with the philosophy you are espousing is that it takes the control of the characters out of the players' hands. If you can't make a character the way you want, which for a melee character means access to weapons and armor, then you will quickly disconnect from that character. I'm not saying a DM has to give you what you want dropped from the sky, but if you don't have ACCESS to it, if you can't craft or purchase it when it's something basic in the core rulebook then what's the point? If you get your appropriate level worth of items you can't use (e.g. a good party with nothing but Unholy swords) and you can only sell them for half, then you only have HALF your recommended amount of treasure.
I feel pretty secure in this right now, since I'm playing a published adventure path and AFTER selling about 90% of the magic items/treasure we've found we have just over the recommended treasure level.
You need to read the magic item chapter in the book. I am using the rules from there in my statements I am not sure what rules you are using.
You need to read the magic item chapter in the book. I am using the rules from there in my statements I am not sure what rules you are using.
*sigh*
You're not even paying attention. I give up.
Says the man using house rules to ague about core rules.
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While I agree with seeker that the rules do not say 'give exactly what the players want', I also agree with meatrace that 'here's a dagger Mr. Sword'n'board' is against the rules as well.
Edit: Rather, against the spirit of the rules. Pitting a THF against a warrior with a dagger is fair. Pitting same fighter with a dagger against an ancient dragon is not.
Says the man using house rules to ague about core rules.
What f%#%ing houserules?!?!?!?!? I'm talking about STANDARD selling PREGENERATED treasure in a PUBLISHED ADVENTURE PATH for half their book price and using that money to buy treasure USING THE RULES IN THE PATHFINDER BOOK!
Please explain the house rule here. I'm begging you. Oh you can't? Stop changing the subject just because you're completely wrong about something.
<rage>Dude. Take a walk and come back when you're calm. You aren't helping your position any right now.
I know. Do you know if there is a way to block all posts by a poster? Because I've been active on these boards for nearly a year now, and I've never seen a post by him that has been helpful or intelligent.
What f&@@ing houserules?!?!?!?!? I'm talking about STANDARD selling PREGENERATED treasure in a PUBLISHED ADVENTURE PATH for half their book price and using that money to buy treasure USING THE RULES IN THE PATHFINDER BOOK!
Please explain the house rule here. I'm begging you. Oh you can't? Stop changing the subject just because you're completely wrong about something.
Ok as your doing it by the book
You go to a metropolis
Anything under 16'000 gp you have a 75% chance of finding.
Anything over , such as you +5 falchion you need to roll for
First you roll 3d4 to see how many items of any value this city might have, then we need to roll type.
To get weapons you need to roll 1-10 on a d100
Then you need to roll 39-49 to get your +5
By the book as you say
If your GM is not rolling and just letting you pick it is a house rule and not by the book. Your arguing core rules but not using core rules in your augments.
By the rules you can not simply buy anything at anytime just because you want that item.
All this fuss over what a dish is. Anyone in Fawtly-land's tea party could tell you the answer to that!
What f&@@ing houserules?!?!?!?!? I'm talking about STANDARD selling PREGENERATED treasure in a PUBLISHED ADVENTURE PATH for half their book price and using that money to buy treasure USING THE RULES IN THE PATHFINDER BOOK!
Please explain the house rule here. I'm begging you. Oh you can't? Stop changing the subject just because you're completely wrong about something.
Ok as your doing it by the book
You go to a metropolis
Anything under 16'000 gp you have a 75% chance of finding.
Anything over , such as you +5 falchion you need to roll forFirst you roll 3d4 to see how many items of any value this city might have, then we need to roll type.
To get weapons you need to roll 1-10 on a d100
Then you need to roll 39-49 to get your +5By the book as you say
If your GM is not rolling and just letting you pick it is a house rule and not by the book. Your arguing core rules but not using core rules in your augments.
By the rules you can not simply buy anything at anytime just because you want that item.
You are mistaking 'anything you want' with 'something you can use. Certainly i dont believe the dm has to allow the players to buy whatever they want. What I do believe is that the dm should provide level appriopriate wealth, and it should be made up of items they can use. What means they use to do that is up to them. But offering items that are not useful to the players and not allowing them to somehow exchange it is keeping the players out of that wealth by level guideline. And while the magic item charts and stuff in a city charts are useful if you want 'realism' they are not used as part of the assumption that determines things like appropriate monster CR. The concept that players have usable gear IS. The random magic item charts are used by some dms, not all. I am fairly certain the vast majority of GM's use the CR tables.
I agree most GM do this, however that is not what he was saying. He was saying you get the gear you want when you want it By the rules you can not just have your +5 falchion just because you want it.
Now most GM will change what gear you find to match the party but saying the book says you must or that you must allow the party to have anything they have the money for is not the case and in fact is set up so you wont find just anything and everything at any given time.
It gives you a chance { sometimes a very small chance} not a promise of finding your desired item.
Useless and optimal are not the same thing.
Ya I know ya wasn't, I was just pointing out folks like to use odd examples Like the +5 unholy sap. And just because it ya found a +2 flaming scimitar in place of a +3 longsword does not make it inappropriate
Best thing ya can do if your going with some kinda of super specialized build is make sure your GM will play along. Because not all of them will do so.