Bucklers! And Scouts!


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Quick question or two regarding bucklers, as my group prepares for Kingmaker. Some background: My character is going to be a Scout/Order of the Bow Initiate, so naturally, she's going to be using shortbows. A lot. I'd like to boost her reasonably decent AC with a buckler, and here's where I get rankled:

The rules say "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn."

So, my questions: If I use a bow and a buckler, do I lose the buckler's defense bonus when I use my bow? And any suggestions for improving either mobility or defense?


I have always been under the impression that Improved Shield Bash would solve this little problem. I have used that with my group with the Tessen from OA, the Buckler, Dwarven Buckler-axe, and various other shields with odd rules, and it works well for everyone. since its such a small AC bonus, talk to your DM about Improved shield bash applying to attacks with the buckler-hand weapon.

Scarab Sages

Snorb wrote:
So, my questions: If I use a bow and a buckler, do I lose the buckler's defense bonus when I use my bow? And any suggestions for improving either mobility or defense?

Yes, you loose the AC bonus from the buckler for any round in which you use the bow.

As for improving your defense, you can look at various magic items. Find ones with different bonuses to AC so they work together.

Dark Archive

Goblich wrote:
I have always been under the impression that Improved Shield Bash would solve this little problem. I have used that with my group with the Tessen from OA, the Buckler, Dwarven Buckler-axe, and various other shields with odd rules, and it works well for everyone. since its such a small AC bonus, talk to your DM about Improved shield bash applying to attacks with the buckler-hand weapon.

I dont have my book in front of me, but i do not believe you can use Improved Shield bash with a buckler....


You can't bash with a Buckler, but the idea is attacking with a weapon in your buckler hand, and using the "Retain Shield bonus after attacking" benefit of ISB.
Its not RAW, but it could be an interpretation, and it doesnt do much in the way of unbalancing the game.


Snorb wrote:

Quick question or two regarding bucklers, as my group prepares for Kingmaker. Some background: My character is going to be a Scout/Order of the Bow Initiate, so naturally, she's going to be using shortbows. A lot. I'd like to boost her reasonably decent AC with a buckler, and here's where I get rankled:

The rules say "You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn."

So, my questions: If I use a bow and a buckler, do I lose the buckler's defense bonus when I use my bow? And any suggestions for improving either mobility or defense?

Look at the improved buckler defense feat in Complete Warrior. I use it quiet often.


Snorb wrote:


So, my questions: If I use a bow and a buckler, do I lose the buckler's defense bonus when I use my bow? And any suggestions for improving either mobility or defense?

1. Yes, you loose out on the buckler for those rounds.

2. Don't do it. Scout is fine to dip into archery, but nowhere near good as a primary archer. An archer's greatest strength is getting off full attacks, which you're not looking to do as a scout.

If you want a mobile archer consider being a mounted one. In that way you can full attack while the mount moves, and if it doesn't move a great deal you can do so without penalty or need for special feats. If you think that you are going to be in confined quarters a lot consider a small sized character, but realize that they do take a decent hit in the archery department (die size and str penalty). Mind you with deadly aim out there loosing out on 2dam/hit isn't as proportionally bad as it was in 3.5.

-James


No, go for it. Order of the Bow is great for an archer scout. Loads of bonus damage as a standard action, loads of bonus damage if you move before you attack. Those go together like peanut butter and chocolate. And I second the Improved Buckler Defense feat.


jakebacon wrote:
No, go for it. Order of the Bow is great for an archer scout. Loads of bonus damage as a standard action, loads of bonus damage if you move before you attack. Those go together like peanut butter and chocolate. And I second the Improved Buckler Defense feat.

Yeah and it totals nothing compared to what a full attacking archer would do.

Archery is a fine dip for a scout, not the other way around.

-James

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

james maissen wrote:
2. Don't do it. Scout is fine to dip into archery, but nowhere near good as a primary archer. An archer's greatest strength is getting off full attacks, which you're not looking to do as a scout.

That was the case in 3.5. The feats Pinpoint Targeting and Deadly Aim makes a Scout-dip archer viable, although he'll still have to rely heavily on a full BAB class (Fighter or Ranger would be most logical) to get PT. When you can ignore armor on your only attack, you can Deadly Aim to your hearts content and get skirmish on top, while moving around the battlefield. Yes please.

EDIT: Is Order of the Bow Initiate a full BAB prestige class?

Liberty's Edge

Yeah, Order of the Bow Initiate's a full BAB class. The real appeal for me is more "Ranged Precision +#d8" than BAB, but I don't mind. (We houseruled Rapid Shot out of the OOBInit's prerequisites, mostly because the whole point of the class seems to be "one shot one kill.")

And in case anybody was wondering, the feat setup I have written down is:

1. Point Blank Shot
1H. Precise Shot
3. Dodge
4. Mobility [Scout bonus feat]
5. Improved Skirmish (Move 20', skirmish improves +2d6/+2 AC)
7. Weapon Focus (Shortbows)
8. Shot on the Run [Scout bonus feat]
9. Elusive Target (Negate Power Attack attempts from designated foe, cause designated flanker to hit his partner, yay)
11. Parting Shot (I have no idea what book this is in.)
13. Deadly Aim
15. Wind Stance
17. Lightning Stance


Parting shot is from the Pathfinder Campaign Setting pg. 113 according to Nethys

Dark Archive

to answer your question....NO

PFRPG, pg 150 wrote:
Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it.

Which means that you only take the -1 for melee attacks that you using your shield arm. "improved buckler defense" is good for your melee but it dose nothing for your Ranged.

Your feat setup seems good. If you're multi-classing I suggest Ranger and Scout and taking the "Swift Hunter" feat(Complete Scoundrel pg. 81) it allows you to stack Ranger and Scout levels for Favored enemy and skirmish. If you're using alternative class features "Champion of the Wild"(Complete Champion pg.50) is a good fit if you don't plan to use magic.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Bucklers! And Scouts! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.