And just for giggles, the Argonian as well:
Argonian
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha: Argonians are agile and very intelligent, but tend to be reserved and untrusting.
Speed: Argonians have a land speed of 30 ft., and a swim speed of 50 ft.
Amphibious: Argonians can breathe both on land and underwater.
Poison Immunity: Because of their enhanced immune system, Argonians are immune to poisons of all types.
Disease Resistance: Because of their enhanced immune system, Argonians receive a +2 circumstance bonus to all checks to resist diseases.
Ability Scores: 0 pts.
Speed: 4 pts.
Amphibious: 2 pts.
Poison Immunity: 2 pts.
Disease Resistance: 2 pts. (?)
Just for the heck of it, here's the Khajit from the Elder Scrolls series. Perhaps they won't suck as much in Pathfinder form...
That's not too far from elf.
Just for the heck of it, here's the Khajit from the Elder Scrolls series. Perhaps they won't suck as much in Pathfinder form...That's not too far from elf.
Huh. True enough. Didn't notice that when I was looking over the race's abilities. Well, I guess that means we'll be having ourselves some cat wizards.
has any 1 done dragon races or 1/2dragon races? like the dragonkin in 3.5e
Jlord did a cool dragon race inspired by the shifter.
I'm seeing a lot of custom PC race threads lately so I thought I'd bump this. It is a great tool for determining balance.
JotunbrudAmusingly, this translates to 'giant bride' and not giant blood.
Tell that to the Japanese XD
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I realize the point of this guide is to create 10-point races on par with the standard races, though I am curious how many points would be considered a +1 LA, a +2 LA, etc.
Were someone to use this guide to create ECL 1+ races, how would things scale? Would a +1 LA race consist of twice as many points as an ECL 0 race (20 points)?
Or does the system break down when applies to higher ECL races?
JotunbrudAmusingly, this translates to 'giant bride' and not giant blood.Tell that to the Japanese XD
---
I realize the point of this guide is to create 10-point races on par with the standard races, though I am curious how many points would be considered a +1 LA, a +2 LA, etc.
Were someone to use this guide to create ECL 1+ races, how would things scale? Would a +1 LA race consist of twice as many points as an ECL 0 race (20 points)?
Or does the system break down when applies to higher ECL races?
I think races that reach around 12-15 points could be assigned a +1 LA. I think it pretty much breaks down after that though and is up to DM discretion since the guide wasn't designed with that in mind.
In effect, my own system is geared to characters already having spent '5 points' in selecting their race. My values are almost always half those here, so things translate quite well into Ability Points. My more powerful Races cost '5 Points', So using a 15 Point build, you would spend 5 Points to be an 'X', leaving 10 Points for Stats. I have only done 5 and 10 point Races as yet.
I should note that every 'better' Race has some serious drawback built into the 'Package'. Flying Races, for example, slowly gain better flight, as per 3.5's Raptors, but suffer from blunt trauma. Elves get a lot of benefits, but are vulnerable to a number of things.
Fast healing: heal twice as many hit points from natural healing.
How any points do you think this ability is? I was adding it to a race that I already figured had about 10 points, but I don't want to over do it too much...
Fast healing: heal twice as many hit points from natural healing.
How any points do you think this ability is? I was adding it to a race that I already figured had about 10 points, but I don't want to over do it too much...
I gave a similar ability to a race I made. I didn't charge that race anything for it, because in my mind, it's a completely flavorful ability. Almost every party you encounter is going to have a healer, much to the point where any natural healing you accumulate for sleeping isn't going to be much. You normally get 1 hit point per hit die when you rest; that ability gives you 2. Since a good DM is not going to let you rest for 8 hours every time you scrape your knee without punishing you (I ambushed my players with a kolbold scouting party that wandered into the area this one time, for example), this ability isn't going to come into play much, and when it does, it's nice. Having to wait 8 hours to get the whole effect makes it rather under the radar though, in my opinion :).
Fast healing: heal twice as many hit points from natural healing.
How any points do you think this ability is? I was adding it to a race that I already figured had about 10 points, but I don't want to over do it too much...
I've seen feats that do exactly that, so I'd say its a 4 point ability. While its all very well and good to say that in a high magic campaign there will be magical healing available, in practice the amount of healing available is not endless, and each casting comes at the expense of another spell that might have been cast.
Even with a cleric in the party, it isn't unusual for natural healing to apply to characters of every level. At low levels the cleric just doesnt have a lot of output... at higher levels the double HP becomes the equivalent of a higher level divine spell that doesn't need to be cast on you.
Either way, I don't see this as being a "simply flavour" ability. If you want "flavour" then just SAY they heal from minor scrapes and cuts faster than humans, but don't give them a special ability in conjunction with it.
Also, I love kobolds. Currently there are sitting at 0 points:
Kobold (0 pt, thus -1 adjustment.. or CR 1/4 rather than 1/3):
-4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con
-2 Con (-4 pts)
-2 to Mental stat with bonus (-2 pts)
-2 to Strength with penalty (-2 pts)
Darkvision (2 pts)
Armor (4 pts)
Crafty (3 pts) +2 to 3 skills, and two are always class skills ad hoc +1 pt
Light Sensitivity (-1 pt)
For my upcoming homebrew campaign i'm trying a variant of the kobolds too:
Clutchguardians
-4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Wis
small
normal speed (30)
darkvision (60)
draconic resistance (+1 nat Ac, fire resist 5)
draconic affinity (draconic sorcerers treat cha +2; clerics with draconic domain +1 CL on domain powers and spells)
crafty (+2 trapmaking, perception, miner, these and stealth are always class skills)
weakness light sensitive
fluffwise I try to build them as a race "created" by the dragons to help guarding there clutches aggainst smaller races/vermin/etc without creating a race that endangers "draconic rule"
fluffwise I try to build them as a race "created" by the dragons to help guarding there clutches aggainst smaller races/vermin/etc without creating a race that endangers "draconic rule"
I wanna see your Fluff when you get finished!
fluffwise I try to build them as a race "created" by the dragons to help guarding there clutches aggainst smaller races/vermin/etc without creating a race that endangers "draconic rule"I wanna see your Fluff when you get finished!
I think you expect to much (or I'm misunderstanding you because I read your post as a compliment :)).
If you really are interested, click the spoiler - but it got nothing to do with race creation. Later maybe when I have written the stats of the other races down.
My campaign is called "The First Empire of Man" and is set in a world were mankind makes its "first rise" to civilization.
The world was first ruled by dragons. They ruled over other species, their modifications of them and their own creations.
Out of "one draconic race" degenerated/evolved/... different ones, with that came conflict,.. - and another race took power.
Lizardfolk.
They build a "barbaric empire" (I guess i'm staying with the "official suggestions" for lizardfolk pc stats, giving them a -2 on int) without much arcane magic or technology - but many skilled fighters and clerics.
They fought wars with the dragons and over time (and with a shorter "breeding circle) won.
At that point humans were on a point of "cro magnon" i guess. Lizardfolk uses them as slaves (and food).
But history repeated itself - lizardfolk "evolved", became more diverse and conflicted. And a younger, faster breeding, more numerous (and industrious/creative) race began to fight.
The campaign starts about 2-3 generations after the last battles vs the lizardfolk - it is still remembered, there are still people living who fought, but also the finer details are getting lost.
There are survivors of all "fallen cultures", more or less aware of what has happend. The Dragons are no "colour" tribes but mostly individuals with personal alliances/feudes. Clutchguardians in the most parts of the world have lost their "culture" and try to survice (while sometimes guarding "artifacts" like old, cold, but potentially breedable eggs). Lizardfolk lives on the bordes of human territory or travelled to farer away, less "civilized", dangerous lands - and they are divided into faction. Some trying to regain old glory, some wandering if their downfall was just, etc pp. Their gods have mostly left, some trying to work against rising humanity, some trying to change to get new followers under this "new" race,..
Humanity has no real divine magic, almost no healing magic. Their is a relativ strong shamanistic movement and a few sorcerors and oracles.
Rulewise Spellists are very restricted - there are bards but most of them don't have cure spells for example.
A Faction of the Shamans tries to surpress other magics because they want to keep the balance / remain in power.
But Mankind has competitors:
Dwarves are about to / have reached the survace - and are a monotheistic race of lawful evil supremacist/slavemasters
Orcs are more like halforcs and I am influenced partially by World of Warcraft - a tribal, shamanistic race of hunters or sth like that. Not sure yet.
There will be elves - I am thinking about two kinds.
A "barbaric" version, CN (maybe CE) who have sharp teeth and claws and prefer them to crafted weapons, carnivorous.. maybe a draconic experiment?
A "nice" one - because one of my players wished for "nice" elves :) A Highculture of Refugees (another plane? planet?..), strong in magic, weakened but real gods, technology - but low in numbers. I guess I'm getting some Draenei Influnce there.
And off course
THERE WILL BE GOBLINS! And everything is food for them.
It's a Pathfinder Game so there must be Goblins :-)
That's about all off the fluff in short
What I really would like to see is feedback on the clutchguardians.
I see them as great in numbers, guarding with traps and ambushes and their natural affinities for certain magics. Still, I am unsure if the bad physical stats are ok?
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For my upcoming homebrew campaign i'm trying a variant of the kobolds too:
Clutchguardians
-4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Wis
small
normal speed (30)
darkvision (60)
draconic resistance (+1 nat Ac, fire resist 5)
draconic affinity (draconic sorcerers treat cha +2; clerics with draconic domain +1 CL on domain powers and spells)
crafty (+2 trapmaking, perception, miner, these and stealth are always class skills)
weakness light sensitivefluffwise I try to build them as a race "created" by the dragons to help guarding there clutches against smaller races/vermin/etc without creating a race that endangers "draconic rule"
I had a version called 'Wyrmkin' that were hatched in clutches of identical 'twins' from unfertilized dragon eggs. Dragons would lay these once or twice a year, and if they hadn't mated in the previous season, the eggs would crack open and disgorge three to six of these small humanoids, who would reverently obey their 'mother.' Wyrmkin from a single mother couldn't reproduce with each other, but Dragons who actually find it useful to have these little blighters running around would sometimes trade them with other female dragons, to create viable breeding stock. Other dragons found them annoying and devoured them, or drove them off (where they eventually would die, or find other 'wild' wyrmkin, interbreed and become pretty much normal kobolds).
Generally, they have scales the color of their mother, although wild tribes have motley or patchy combinations of colors, or have become a sort of muddy brownish-green, gray or brownish-yellow, over many generations of mixed breeding.
Statwise, I made them;
-2 Str, +2 Dex (both stronger *and* tougher than the normal kobold)
+1 natural armor
20 ft. movement rate
small size
60 ft. darkvision
bite 1d4, claws 1d3
+2 racial bonus on Perception checks
+2 racial bonus on saves vs. sleep and paralysis
+2 racial bonus to saving throws vs. the energy type of 'mom'
Energy Resistance of 1 / HD vs. the energy type of 'mom' (max 5)
And one of the following;
Black or Green - Hold breath for Con x4 rounds, +6 racial bonus to swim checks, can take 10 while swimming and take the run action while swimming in a straight line.
Blue - +4 racial bonus to Bluff, Disguise or Survival checks that would benefit from the wyrmkin's talent for vocal mimicry (to imitate the voice of another person, or the vocalization of a specific animal, generally used to lure people or animals into traps...), +4 racial bonus to Acrobatics checks to jump, only requires half the usual water requirements and +2 to Con checks to avoid damage from dehydration.
Red - +1 fire damage to bite attack, +4 craft - alchemy checks to produce alchemical fire or smokesticks and can create alchemist's fire at half-cost if they are willing to use their own blood as a base (costs 1 pt of Con damage). +4 racial bonus to Con checks to avoid suffering harm from environmental heat, -4 racial penalty to Con checks to avoid damage from extremes of cold. Half penalties from smoke-filled surroundings (total concealment from, say, pyrotechnics, is only partial concealment for red wyrmkin).
White - No movement penalties over areas of ice and snow, +4 racial bonus to acrobatics checks to keep balance if running or charging over an icy surface, +4 racial bonus to Con checks to avoid suffering harm from environmental heat, and -4 racial penalty to Con checks to avoid damage from extremes of heat.
Black and Green wyrmkin would take advantage of their improved swimming ability to lair in places that other races couldn't get to, and to set traps that capitalize on their advantages (snare traps that pin someone's foot while they are wading through waist-deep water, for instance). Blue wyrmkin use their vocal mimicry and desert survival advantages to waylay desert travellers, imitating the voices of lost members of their own party during sandstorms or at night to lure them into traps or ambushes (like little tiny Predators). Whites prefer to ambush people (or large animals) on icy or snowy terrain, to grant them improved mobility, and during the coldest nights, when even minor injuries could lead to heat loss and death (and stealing clothing, or arranging for targets to be drenched with water, so that they freeze). Red wyrmkin prefer to fight foes in areas of extreme heat, and filled with choking clouds of smoke, granting themselves full concealment, while suffering lesser penalties than their prey. They are also raging pyromaniacs, and love nothing more than to throw alchemist's fire at foes (or to use a slower-burning and weaker version to set themselves on fire, inflicting no extra damage, and making themselves easier to hit, but hey, they're not exactly Sun Tzu...).
I don't know if it has been mentioned but how about adding a third possibility for startingt Ability modifiers, that is +2 to one fixed ability? This is less advantageous than having +2 to an ability of the players choice and less than having +2 to two abilites and -2 to one.
If you would try to arrange that with buying the penalties and bonuses you would end up paying two points for it, but i think you should rather gain 2 extra points to spend from it.
I had this idea because I wanted to make an entirely new set of races for my campaign, in which most races will probably be reptilian and i wanted one that fits any class equally but does not resemble humans so much, so I came up with this
Genericfolk (working title)
• +2 Constitution (-2)
• Medium size (none)
• Normal speed (0)
• Bonus feat (+8)
• +1 Natural armor (+4)
Also what do you think would resistance to one energy type be worth? (lets take a value of 5 and for a lesser resistance maybe 2 or 3)
I don't know if it has been mentioned but how about adding a third possibility for startingt Ability modifiers, that is +2 to one fixed ability? This is less advantageous than having +2 to an ability of the players choice and less than having +2 to two abilites and -2 to one.
If you would try to arrange that with buying the penalties and bonuses you would end up paying two points for it, but i think you should rather gain 2 extra points to spend from it.
This is effectively the same as the Human races' +2 to their choice of stat so I don't think any extra points should be gained from it. A human with +2 CON is equivalent to a Genericfolk with +2 CON. It's not fair to penalize the human with +2 to con just because he had the option at creation to put it into another stat.
I don't know if it has been mentioned but how about adding a third possibility for startingt Ability modifiers, that is +2 to one fixed ability? This is less advantageous than having +2 to an ability of the players choice and less than having +2 to two abilites and -2 to one.
If you would try to arrange that with buying the penalties and bonuses you would end up paying two points for it, but i think you should rather gain 2 extra points to spend from it.
This is effectively the same as the Human races' +2 to their choice of stat so I don't think any extra points should be gained from it. A human with +2 CON is equivalent to a Genericfolk with +2 CON. It's not fair to penalize the human with +2 to con just because he had the option at creation to put it into another stat.
But choosing a free feat is better than gaining a fixed one according to the point system. A feat choice is 8pts while a fixed feat is 4pts.
But choosing a free feat is better than gaining a fixed one according to the point system. A feat choice is 8pts while a fixed feat is 4pts.I don't know if it has been mentioned but how about adding a third possibility for startingt Ability modifiers, that is +2 to one fixed ability? This is less advantageous than having +2 to an ability of the players choice and less than having +2 to two abilites and -2 to one.
If you would try to arrange that with buying the penalties and bonuses you would end up paying two points for it, but i think you should rather gain 2 extra points to spend from it.
This is effectively the same as the Human races' +2 to their choice of stat so I don't think any extra points should be gained from it. A human with +2 CON is equivalent to a Genericfolk with +2 CON. It's not fair to penalize the human with +2 to con just because he had the option at creation to put it into another stat.
My thoughts exactly.
To give some evidence in core to that there are Half-Elves who have one Skill focus and gnomes who get the equivalent of Spell Focus in the Gnome magic, but still have more abilities to go along with that than just a 2 points equivalent.
Having the option as a player gives you the possibility to completely customize your race towards the class you play and basically gives you the best min-maxing opportunities, while having a fixed stat makes the race less customizable. The only thing you can do is choose a class appropriate to the stat.
Most stats are only useful for a number of classes and while constitution is useful for all of them it is also just a secondary ability for all of them. So no matter what it is, if you can't choose it yourself it is less optimal in most cases.
Does anyone think an ability that basically grants all bonuses AND penalties except for the space and reach increase of a large creature to a medium sized creature would work within the boundaries of these guidelines, and should it cost something?
Does anyone think an ability that basically grants all bonuses AND penalties except for the space and reach increase of a large creature to a medium sized creature would work within the boundaries of these guidelines, and should it cost something?
That has been talked about quite a bit (powerful build). I believe that many cane to the conclusion that it is worth 10,000 points, in other words, never without a level adjustment.
Does anyone think an ability that basically grants all bonuses AND penalties except for the space and reach increase of a large creature to a medium sized creature would work within the boundaries of these guidelines, and should it cost something?That has been talked about quite a bit (powerful build). I believe that many cane to the conclusion that it is worth 10,000 points, in other words, never without a level adjustment.
Isn't powerful build only the advantages of large size (bigger weapons, better CMD and CMB, etc.)?
I'm talking about having both the advantages AND disadvantages, sans reach. So that would be:
+4 CMB/CMD
-1 AC
-1 Attack
+1 average damage on all weapons
-4 to stealth checks
5 foot reach/5 space
I made some races with this guide in another thread, and I really would like to get some input about their balance before I give them to my players to start making their characters. A quick note though, I replaced the ability scores of all the core races with a single +2 to a specific stat, so for the purposes of my homebrew core, a +2 to one stat is equivalent to +0 points with these three races... Anyway, if anyone is willing to give me feedback on these races I'd be very appreciated.
Main focus's are the Dracomorph's "Dracoform", the Troll's "Troll regeneration" times per day and the Fae'ri's "return" ability times per day. The Fae'ri also seemed to be 1 pnt over the 10 point scale goal, but I just don't feel that it really is that powerful. Anyway let me know what you guys think.
Ability Score Bonus: +2 Intelligence; Dracomorphs inherit a gift of intelligence from their draconic heritage. (+0)
Medium Size: Dracomorphs are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size. (+0)
Normal Speed: 30 ft (6 Squares); Dracomorphs have the basic speed for a medium creature. (+0)
Low-light vision: Dracomorphs can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light. (+1)
Languages: Dracomorphs begin play speaking Common and Draconic. Dracomorphs with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Celestial, Dwarven, Elven, Fae’ri, Goblin, Infernal, and Orc. (+0)
Skill Bonuses: +2 Bluff, and +2 Climb. (+2)
Dracoform: Due to the transmutation magic involved in a dracomorph’s conception, they can take on a more draconic from. As a
Standard action, dracomorphs can shift into a humanoid shaped dragon, gaining special draconic traits. Dracomorphs can stay in their dracoform for 1 minute. When the dracomorph returns to its original form, it is fatigued for 1 minute. Receiving the fatigued, exhausted, or unconscious conditions cause the dracoform to immediately end, and a Dracomorph cannot enter Dracoform while under the effects of these conditions. Dracoform may be ended early as a swift action. A dracomorph chooses his dragon color, and gains two of the following racial traits chosen from the list below. These traits only apply when the Dracomoph is in Dracoform. (-1, +4, +4)
The breath weapon deals 1d4 hit points of damage plus and additional 1d4 hit points of damage per two racial HD possessed by the half-dragon. (Reflex half; DC 10 + 1/2 character level + creature’s Con modifier).
Dragon Variety | Breath Weapon
Black or copper | 30-foot line of acid
Brass | 30-foot line of fire
Blue or bronze | 30-foot line of electricity
Gold or red | 15-foot cone of fire
Green | 15-foot cone of acid
Silver or white | 15-foot cone of cold
Ability Score Bonus: +2 Strength; Trolls are the largest of the medium sized races, granting them immense strength. (+0)
Medium Size: Trolls are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size. (+0)
Normal Speed: 30 ft (6 Squares); Trolls have the average speed of a medium sized creature. (+0)
Languages: Trolls begin play speaking Common and Troll. Trolls with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Draconic, Fae-ri, Goblin, Orc, and Terran. (+0)
Skill Bonuses: +2 Intimidate, and +2 Survival. (+2)
Racial Weapon Familiarity: Trolls treat any weapon with the word “Troll” in its name as a martial weapon, such as the troll double axe. (+0)
Long Arms: Trolls gain the lunge feat as a bonus feat, even though they do not meet the prerequisites of the feat. (+4)
Troll Regeneration: Trolls can heighten their immune system to regenerate a small amount of damage. A troll can instantly heal 2 points of damage he has just taken as an immediate action. The Troll can use this ability once a day, and an additional time per day per two character levels. The troll cannot use this ability to heal damage from fire or acid attacks, and any damage from such attacks prevent the troll from using this ability until the beginning of his next turn. (+4)
Ability Score Bonus: +2 Dexterity; Fae’ri are the swiftest of the civilized races. (+0)
Small Size: Fae’ri are Small creatures and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks. (+0)
Slow Speed: 20 ft (4 Squares); Fae’ri have slow speed due to being small size. (-4)
Low-light vision: Fae-ri can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light. (+1)
Languages: Fae’ri begin play speaking Common and Fae. Fae’ri with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Celestial, Draconic, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan, and Troll. (+0)
Skill Bonuses: +2 Fly, +2 Knowledge (Planes). Even though a Fae’ri does not have a fly speed, a Fae’ri can put skill points into the fly skill. (+2)
Racial Weapon Familiarity: Fae-ri treat any weapon with the word “Fae-ri” in its name as a martial weapon, such as fae-ri sling-staff. (+0)
Wings Fae’ri have wings that aid them in a number of different ways. Sadly, Fae’ri have lost their home plane, where they were able to fly with their wings. (+0)
Guided Jump: A Fae’ri can use their wings to aid them in jumping. Fae’ri treat all their jump checks as if they have a running start, and do not take the -4 penalty due to their speed (normally -4). If a fae’ri performs a running start on a jump check, they get a +4 circumstance bonus to the check. A fae’ri may use their fly skill instead of acrobatics to make jump checks. (+4)
Guided Fall: A Fae’ri can use their wings to slow their descent. Fae’ri takes damage as if any fall were 30 feet shorter than it actually is. (+4)
Return: The Fae’ri all have the ability to instantly return to the Fayrealm, their home plane. Due to the Fae-realm being destroyed, they are immediately trust back to where they were. All Fae’ri have evolved this into a defensive ability. As an immediate action, a Fae'ri can attempt to instantly "blink" out of harm’s way when they are attacked by a physical attack. This grants the fae’ri a 20% chance to avoid the blow. The Fae’ri can use this ability once a day, and an additional time per day per two character levels. The Fae’ri cannot use this ability more than once in one round. (+4)
I made some races with this guide in another thread, and I really would like to get some input about their balance before I give them to my players to start making their characters. A quick note though, I replaced the ability scores of all the core races with a single +2 to a specific stat, so for the purposes of my homebrew core, a +2 to one stat is equivalent to +0 points with these three races... Anyway, if anyone is willing to give me feedback on these races I'd be very appreciated.
Main focus's are the Dracomorph's "Dracoform", the Troll's "Troll regeneration" times per day and the Fae'ri's "return" ability times per day. The Fae'ri also seemed to be 1 pnt over the 10 point scale goal, but I just don't feel that it really is that powerful. Anyway let me know what you guys think.
** spoiler omitted **...
The Dracomorph's ability "Dracoform" just seems like way too much to me. It gives the race much more than any other race has. The 1 minute restriction doesn't seem like enough because chances are, the character will never need all of that for more than 1 minute.
As a start, I'm thinking dump the SR, make the bite a secondary attack, and change the Draconic Presence to a bonus to Intimidate checks instead of the save or shaken deal.I would say no spellcasting while changed but it appears to be intended to be used during casting.
Another idea might be to not have all of these abilities at once at first level. What if the character progressively gains them as he/she gains HD?
Start with +1DC to spells, bite, +1 AC, and +2 to intimidate checks.
At 3HD gain claws, breath weapon 2d6, +3 to intimidate checks, 5 energy resistance
At 6HD gain breath weapon 3d6, +4 to intimidate, 10 energy resistance
Every 3HD after 6, gain 1d6 more to breath weapon and +1 to intimidate
Troll regeneration is fine the way it is. It is basically the Toughness feat with a different mechanic. If I played a Troll I would probably pick up the Toughness feat to go with it though just for the synergy. :D
The Fae'ri, Return, ability is too powerful as written. I think it's just usable too often. If its uses were set at 1/day at first level plus one more time per day every 5 levels after, then they would get one extra use every time a Fighter gained another iterative attack. This allows the Fae'ri to use it to help thwart a full attack against it for 1 round.
Also enter a stipulation that it must be used before the attack roll is made (before success or failure is determined).
Does anyone think an ability that basically grants all bonuses AND penalties except for the space and reach increase of a large creature to a medium sized creature would work within the boundaries of these guidelines, and should it cost something?That has been talked about quite a bit (powerful build). I believe that many cane to the conclusion that it is worth 10,000 points, in other words, never without a level adjustment.Isn't powerful build only the advantages of large size (bigger weapons, better CMD and CMB, etc.)?
I'm talking about having both the advantages AND disadvantages, sans reach. So that would be:
+4 CMB/CMD
-1 AC
-1 Attack
+1 average damage on all weapons
-4 to stealth checks
5 foot reach/5 space
Not sure what you mean by +1 average damage on all weapons. If you just mean +1 damage then I think this is basically balanced.
I'm talking about having both the advantages AND disadvantages, sans reach. So that would be:
+4 CMB/CMD
-1 AC
-1 Attack
+1 average damage on all weapons
-4 to stealth checks
5 foot reach/5 space
Make the space 10 feet, the reach remains 5 feet, their armor costs more/weighs more (they can carry it thanks to Large's carrying capacity multiplier), THEY weigh more, and they have to squeeze (i.e. take penalties) in order to fit in normal passages (a side effect of a 10' space). Then they might start feeling the sting... Think of it this way, it's just like being under Enlarge Person all the time, minus the reach. Which would generally still be awesome, because, well, you could still drink an Enlarging potion.
BTW, Large says it's simply +1 to CMB/CMD, not +4.
Relevant Section
The Dracomorph's ability "Dracoform" just seems like way too much to me. It gives the race much more than any other race has. The 1 minute restriction doesn't seem like enough because chances are, the character will never need all of that for more than 1 minute.
As a start, I'm thinking dump the SR, make the bite a secondary attack, and change the Draconic Presence to a bonus to Intimidate checks instead of the save or shaken deal.
I would say no spellcasting while changed but it appears to be intended to be used during casting.
Another idea might be to not have all of these abilities at once at first level. What if the character progressively gains them as he/she gains HD?
Start with +1DC to spells, bite, +1 AC, and +2 to intimidate checks.
At 3HD gain claws, breath weapon 2d6, +3 to intimidate checks, 5 energy resistance
At 6HD gain breath weapon 3d6, +4 to intimidate, 10 energy resistance
Every 3HD after 6, gain 1d6 more to breath weapon and +1 to intimidate
Actually, if you check dracoform again, it allows you to choose two of those abilities, not all of them. So, If you took Draconic presence and the bite ability, you would potentially shaken weaker enemies when you transform and for the rest of the transformation you could use the bite attack. Another example would be that you could take the +1 Nat Ac and The +1 DCs to fire spells while in the form. How do you think of it with the choice of two? I was actually thinking of feats that would allow the Dracomorph to gain another of the above abilities.
Return cannot be used more than once in a round as of right now. How about this look?
Return: The Fae’ri all have the ability to instantly return to the Fayrealm, their home plane. Due to the Fae-realm being destroyed, they are immediately trust back to where they were. All Fae’ri have evolved this into a defensive ability. As an immediate action, a Fae'ri can attempt to instantly "blink" out of harm’s way when they are attacked by a physical attack. This grants the fae’ri a 20% chance to avoid a melee or ranged attack before the attack roll is confirmed. The Fae’ri can use this ability once a day, and an additional time per day per five character levels. The Fae’ri cannot use this ability more than once in one round. (+4)
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I'm talking about having both the advantages AND disadvantages, sans reach. So that would be:
+4 CMB/CMD
+1 average damage on all weapons
-1 AC
-1 Attack
-4 to stealth checks
5 foot reach/5 space
Then what if you: Make the space 10 feet, the reach remains 5 feet, their armor costs more/weighs more (they can carry it thanks to Large's carrying capacity multiplier), THEY weigh more, and they have to squeeze (i.e. take penalties) in order to fit in normal passages (a side effect of a 10' space). Then they might start feeling the sting... Think of it this way, it's just like being under Enlarge Person all the time, minus the reach. Which would generally still be awesome, because, well, you could still drink an Enlarging potion.
BTW, Large says it's simply +1 to CMB/CMD, not +4.
Relevant Section
I think he got the +4 from 3.5. We all do that from time to time. ;)
I've been wondering about this myself actually.
Assuming it went like this:
+1 CMB/CMD
+1 Average Damage (large weapons)
-1 AC
-1 Attack
-4 Stealth
-2 Fly
Large Carrying Capacity
Gear Prices for Large creatures
What wold it be worth? There are more penalties than benefits.
What if you added the 10 foot space? How much is filling 10 foot space worth?
And finally:
What's a reach of 10 feet worth? That's the only real benefit I see to being a large creature normally - you threaten a bigger area. I mean; slightly bigger damage (average of +1 per attack; above); but you get alot more drawbacks than benefits. Large weapons are less of a damage boost than power attack; and I mean the 3.5 version of PA, not the boosted pathfinder version.
Actually, if you check dracoform again, it allows you to choose two of those abilities, not all of them. So, If you took Draconic presence and the bite ability, you would potentially shaken weaker enemies when you transform and for the rest of the transformation you could use the bite attack. Another example would be that you could take the +1 Nat Ac and The +1 DCs to fire spells while in the form. How do you think of it with the choice of two? I was actually thinking of feats that would allow the Dracomorph to gain another of the above abilities.
Return cannot be used more than once in a round as of right now. How about this look?
Return: The Fae’ri all have the ability to instantly return to the Fayrealm, their home plane. Due to the Fae-realm being destroyed, they are immediately trust back to where they were. All Fae’ri have evolved this into a defensive ability. As an immediate action, a Fae'ri can attempt to instantly "blink" out of harm’s way when they are attacked by a physical attack. This...
OMG I must have been having a horrible day with interpreting things when I made those suggestions. I probably should not have been commenting on anything.
I missed the part about two abilities for dracoform. That's probably fine the way it is.
For Return I guess I completely forgot about Immediate action by the end of reading the ability. I think this rewrite is perfect though.
I think he got the +4 from 3.5. We all do that from time to time. ;)
I've been wondering about this myself actually.
Assuming it went like this:
+1 CMB/CMD
+1 Average Damage (large weapons)
-1 AC
-1 Attack
-4 Stealth
-2 Fly
Large Carrying Capacity
Gear Prices for Large creaturesWhat wold it be worth? There are more penalties than benefits.
I think what you have there would be a 0 point ability. It's pretty balanced IMO, maybe hanging on the fence on the weak side a little.
What if you added the 10 foot space? How much is filling 10 foot space worth?And finally:
What's a reach of 10 feet worth? That's the only real benefit I see to being a large creature normally - you threaten a bigger area. I mean; slightly bigger damage (average of +1 per attack; above); but you get alot more drawbacks than benefits. Large weapons are less of a damage boost than power attack; and I mean the 3.5 version of PA, not the boosted pathfinder version.
Filling a 10ft space, I'm not really sure. Maybe -2 points? You don't fit in smaller spaces and you can be surrounded by more enemies...
Are there any more problems this could cause?I think 10ft reach is probably worth 6 points (maybe even 8). It's better than a reach weapon (which, depending on your class, you might have to spend a feat to get) because you can't lose the reach, you can still use it against adjacent opponents, and it applies to any weapon you use (which means you increase the reach of any reach weapon you use).
I'm just grabbing this from my other thread to see how it works with your system, this is what I got:
Murimus
# +2 Dexterity, +2 Int, -2 Strength (0 pts)
Murimus are highly agile, but they tend to be somewhat weak. They are also inquisitive, though sometimes to a fault.
# Small: As a Small creature, a Murimus gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but she uses smaller weapons than humans use, and her lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
# Murimus base land speed is 20 feet. (-4)
# Darkvision 60 f.t.
# +2 racial bonus on Stealth and Disable Device checks. (+4)
# Timid: -1 on saves vs fear affects (-1)
Murimus are rather timid, and subject to fear easily.
# Musteval Ancestry: A Murimu may cast disguse self as a spell like ability twice per day. The DC is 10 + Charisma Modifier + Spell Level. (+6? Really not sure. I sort of gave them 2 free spells.)
# Speak with Animals: A Murimus may speak with animals as a free action as the Spell "Speak with Animals" as cast by a 3rd level Druid. (Uh...hmm...I'll call it +4?)
# Automatic Languages: Gnome and Murimus. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Human, and Goblin
So we're at 0-4+4-1+6+4= 9
Sound about right?
I'm just grabbing this from my other thread to see how it works with your system, this is what I got:
Murimus
# +2 Dexterity, +2 Int, -2 Strength (0 pts)
Murimus are highly agile, but they tend to be somewhat weak. They are also inquisitive, though sometimes to a fault.# Small: As a Small creature, a Murimus gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but she uses smaller weapons than humans use, and her lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
# Murimus base land speed is 20 feet. (-4)
# Darkvision 60 f.t.# +2 racial bonus on Stealth and Disable Device checks. (+4)
# Timid: -1 on saves vs fear affects (-1)
Murimus are rather timid, and subject to fear easily.# Musteval Ancestry: A Murimu may cast disguse self as a spell like ability twice per day. The DC is 10 + Charisma Modifier + Spell Level. (+6? Really not sure. I sort of gave them 2 free spells.)
# Speak with Animals: A Murimus may speak with animals as a free action as the Spell "Speak with Animals" as cast by a 3rd level Druid. (Uh...hmm...I'll call it +4?)# Automatic Languages: Gnome and Murimus. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Human, and Goblin
So we're at 0-4+4-1+6+4= 9
Sound about right?
Darkvision: You left out the cost of Darkvision. That's +2.
Timid: Not sure -1 fear is enough to be worth any points because it's just so situational. I'd call it -2 vs fear and give 'em a point. -1Musteval Ancestry: 1st level illusion spell 2/day...This is probably equivalent in power to the 4 0-level spells that gnomes get so it's probably more like +4 points
Speak with Animals: so unlimited use of a 1st level divination spell as a free action? it's just speak with animal so it's not like it has huge utility. unlimited as a free action seems like too much though. if it was as a standard action, unlimited use, then I might be inclined to call it +10. maybe if you cut it down to a standard action 4/day and call it +4 points? I might be focusing too much on the level of the spell and not taking into consideration the usefulness of it enough though.
If you went with these it would be a 9.
Here's a custom race I am trying to convert from 3.5 to Pathfinder. It's fairly complex. It's basically a half elf, half dryad, a race I call the "Drylf."
+2 dex, +2 wis, -2 con
medium size
normal speed
weapon proficiency - longbow
immune to sleep
low light vision
+2 on enchantment saves
+2 skill bonuses outdoors only
- stealth
- perception
- survival
woodswalk (moves through forest canopy as if on ground)
talk to trees (as "speak with plants" but only trees 1/day)
half natural healing
-2 to con when indoors or underground
vulnerability to fire
+2 handle animal
+1 natural armor bonus
Preferred class - Druid
I haven't scored this because I'm not sure how to score some of them. Just wondering how balanced the race is.
+2 dex, +2 wis, -2 con (0)
medium size (0)
normal speed [0]
weapon proficiency - longbow [.5?]
immune to sleep [2]
low light vision [1]
+2 on enchantment saves [2]
+2 skill bonuses outdoors only
- stealth
- perception
- survival
[I would call this 3 normally but because it's outdoor only, I think I'd call it 1 or 2 depending on how useful it is in a particular campaign]
woodswalk (moves through forest canopy as if on ground) [need better description of the mechanics of this. when it can be used, how often, what the speed is, how dense the canopy has to be.]
talk to trees (as "speak with plants" but only trees 1/day) [.5?]
half natural healing [-4?]
-2 to con when indoors or underground [-2?]
vulnerability to fire [-2]
+2 handle animal [1]
+1 natural armor bonus [4]
Without knowing how much woodswalk is worth, this looks like it's worth 5 or 6 points. So without that ability it's at Halfling power level. I'm guessing that woodswalk wouldn't be worth more than 4 or 5 points so this is probably pretty balanced.
Woodswalk is simply the ability to move through a forest canopy at the same speed as if walking on level ground. It requires a forest canopy to be present. Outside of a forest with overlapping tree branches, it's not usable at all.
Half natural healing is probably not -4, magical healing works normally, so this is healing from rest or from the heal skill. I figured this would be -1 or -2 at most. We have considered the half healing to be for magical healing as well, but the GM decided that would be a crippling penalty for a character.
The +1 natural armor bonus was actually the most discussed bonus for the race. It made "sense" due to the dryad heritage, but it's a pretty big bonus to a pretty critical stat. Eventually the GM agreed that the -2 to constitution was an offsetting condition since most of his campaigns take place underground, so the drylf was losing con and hit points pretty much continuously.
I've played a drylf druid for a couple of years now in 3.5, and the character has never felt unbalanced as a race, but then again, she's a druid, which is pretty unbalanced as a class in 3.5.
Any suggestions are welcome. I like to play balanced characters.
can someone point me to a pdf of this?
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Filling a 10ft space, I'm not really sure. Maybe -2 points? You don't fit in smaller spaces and you can be surrounded by more enemies...
Are there any more problems this could cause?
It's much easier to catch you in an AoE as a non-primary target. If they target your allies, it's alot easier to catch you as well, since you fill 10x10. So it's harder for you to take a battlefield position to avoid AoEs.
I think 10ft reach is probably worth 6 points (maybe even 8). It's better than a reach weapon (which, depending on your class, you might have to spend a feat to get) because you can't lose the reach, you can still use it against adjacent opponents, and it applies to any weapon you use (which means you increase the reach of any reach weapon you use).
So Large size isn't such a gamebreaking factor, its the reach that comes with it that's such a big deal?
Expanding on the idea: Halfling in this case means all small creatures.
So if you took away the halfling's 5-foot reach, and scaled things down (now we're using 2.5 foot squares, and medium creatures take up 2x2), and a halfling with a reach weapon has 5 ft reach; The halfling is 6, or maybe even 8 points behind? (It always logically bothered me that a halfling has the same space/reach as a human; because, well given the pictures, no they dont.)
Maybe space/reach could be separated from size, and I guess I can continue to have halflings with giant feet and orangutan arms in my games. lol. Alternately, they could lose the space/reach and get something to compensate. (well, losing the space is a benefit, losing the reach is a drawback.)
Is reach really worth that much?
Reach is mostly a pain to deal with when you have tactics-savvy players. Getting an attack of opportunity on anything that tries to get adjacent to you that isn't a Cirque de Soleil performer is a pretty big benefit, since they can't free-action 5' step in any turn they move. Opponents who do manage to close but for some reason want to leave can't Withdraw, as they don't leave a threatened space for a non-threatened space. Stand Still becomes a pain there... though wisely, Stand Still specifies that it only works on attacks of opportunity in adjacent squares, so it doesn't prevent charging foes from actually closing in on you.
Cleave and Whirlwind Attack get more complex. Also, not a lot of monsters or NPCs invest in the Strike Back feat.
Admittedly, this does hose opposing spellcasters more than anyone else, and that may not be a bad thing from your perspective. It's just a level of complexity that probably doesn't need to be added at level 1; by level 10 (or maybe even 6), magic items, spell effects and feats can muddy the waters to the point where it's probably more manageable.
Woodswalk is simply the ability to move through a forest canopy at the same speed as if walking on level ground. It requires a forest canopy to be present. Outside of a forest with overlapping tree branches, it's not usable at all.
Half natural healing is probably not -4, magical healing works normally, so this is healing from rest or from the heal skill. I figured this would be -1 or -2 at most. We have considered the half healing to be for magical healing as well, but the GM decided that would be a crippling penalty for a character.
The +1 natural armor bonus was actually the most discussed bonus for the race. It made "sense" due to the dryad heritage, but it's a pretty big bonus to a pretty critical stat. Eventually the GM agreed that the -2 to constitution was an offsetting condition since most of his campaigns take place underground, so the drylf was losing con and hit points pretty much continuously.
I've played a drylf druid for a couple of years now in 3.5, and the character has never felt unbalanced as a race, but then again, she's a druid, which is pretty unbalanced as a class in 3.5.
Any suggestions are welcome. I like to play balanced characters.
You're probably right about natural healing. It really doesn't play much of a part after 2nd level. May be more like -1.
Does the Woodswalk ability have any weight limitations? Light/medium encumbrance only? Can the Drylf carry another character while walking through the canopy?
Yeah reach is a really big deal for melee characters, especially if you don't have to spend a feat to get it and can use it with a one-handed weapon. It doubles the area a medium/small character threatens with a one-handed weapon. If they pick up a reach weapon and use spiked armor they then go up to 15ft reach which triples the area they threaten.
If small races only had 2.5 ft reach they would need some serious boosts in other areas to be balanced with medium characters who have a 5ft reach. They'd provoke AoOs every time they tried to attack most creatures.
I suppose if small creatures had higher bonuses to AC (maybe specifically vs AoOs) or something like that then it might be worth it. Or even make it so that if they move close enough to attack another creature, then that creature can only use natural or light weapons to attack them back.
Woodswalk is simply the ability to move through a forest canopy at the same speed as if walking on level ground. It requires a forest canopy to be present. Outside of a forest with overlapping tree branches, it's not usable at all.
Half natural healing is probably not -4, magical healing works normally, so this is healing from rest or from the heal skill. I figured this would be -1 or -2 at most. We have considered the half healing to be for magical healing as well, but the GM decided that would be a crippling penalty for a character.
The +1 natural armor bonus was actually the most discussed bonus for the race. It made "sense" due to the dryad heritage, but it's a pretty big bonus to a pretty critical stat. Eventually the GM agreed that the -2 to constitution was an offsetting condition since most of his campaigns take place underground, so the drylf was losing con and hit points pretty much continuously.
I've played a drylf druid for a couple of years now in 3.5, and the character has never felt unbalanced as a race, but then again, she's a druid, which is pretty unbalanced as a class in 3.5.
Any suggestions are welcome. I like to play balanced characters.
You're probably right about natural healing. It really doesn't play much of a part after 2nd level. May be more like -1.
Does the Woodswalk ability have any weight limitations? Light/medium encumbrance only? Can the Drylf carry another character while walking through the canopy?
Wow, excellent question. Hmm....
I'll have to bounce this off my GM, my initial reaction is that it should suffer penalties for medium or heavy armor and that the drylf can only carry a light load while doing it. It probably should be impossible in heavy armor.
Excellent question.
Here's another drylf question...
Dryads have the ability to cast "entangle" at will. (They have other spell like abilities too, but for now I'm just talking about entangle.)
My GM wants to maintain the flavor of the dryad in game as much as possible. We came up with the idea that a drylf who can cast spells can cast "entangle" as a spontaneous first level spell cast, in the same way that a druid can cast "summon nature's ally" or a cleric can cast "heal" spells. That seems to be a reasonable flavor thing that wouldn't create any unbalance, but thought I'd post it here for opinions of others.
At higher levels we might want to do the same thing with other dryad spell abilities, but I don't want to get carried away.
Here's another drylf question...
Dryads have the ability to cast "entangle" at will. (They have other spell like abilities too, but for now I'm just talking about entangle.)
My GM wants to maintain the flavor of the dryad in game as much as possible. We came up with the idea that a drylf who can cast spells can cast "entangle" as a spontaneous first level spell cast, in the same way that a druid can cast "summon nature's ally" or a cleric can cast "heal" spells. That seems to be a reasonable flavor thing that wouldn't create any unbalance, but thought I'd post it here for opinions of others.
At higher levels we might want to do the same thing with other dryad spell abilities, but I don't want to get carried away.
Seems balanced to me. I don't think I'd even assign a point value to it. +1 if anything.
Woodswalk is simply the ability to move through a forest canopy at the same speed as if walking on level ground. It requires a forest canopy to be present. Outside of a forest with overlapping tree branches, it's not usable at all.
This sounds very similar to a feat in 3.5 called Brachiation, which allowed a character to move though trees at their land speed. At one point I had a Scout/Ranger/Forrest Reeve that could do that a 60ft a round. Definitely useful, but only in certain areas, I'd price it at about 4 points.
Woodswalk is simply the ability to move through a forest canopy at the same speed as if walking on level ground. It requires a forest canopy to be present. Outside of a forest with overlapping tree branches, it's not usable at all.This sounds very similar to a feat in 3.5 called Brachiation, which allowed a character to move though trees at their land speed. At one point I had a Scout/Ranger/Forrest Reeve that could do that a 60ft a round. Definitely useful, but only in certain areas, I'd price it at about 4 points.
It's similar in that it allows you to move through the trees, but the idea is not that the drylf is brachiating, the idea is that dryads naturally flow through the branches and foliage of forest canopies as if they were moving on land, or perhaps swimming through water. They actually move through branches and leaves, not around, over or under them.
But from a mechanical movement perspective, yes, similar.
Woodswalk is simply the ability to move through a forest canopy at the same speed as if walking on level ground. It requires a forest canopy to be present. Outside of a forest with overlapping tree branches, it's not usable at all.This sounds very similar to a feat in 3.5 called Brachiation, which allowed a character to move though trees at their land speed. At one point I had a Scout/Ranger/Forrest Reeve that could do that a 60ft a round. Definitely useful, but only in certain areas, I'd price it at about 4 points.It's similar in that it allows you to move through the trees, but the idea is not that the drylf is brachiating, the idea is that dryads naturally flow through the branches and foliage of forest canopies as if they were moving on land, or perhaps swimming through water. They actually move through branches and leaves, not around, over or under them.
But from a mechanical movement perspective, yes, similar.
I understand the flavor aspect you're going for; I just realized the movement mechanics would be similar to the feat I mentioned.
There are actually two slightly different versions of it, one in Complete Adventurer and one in Masters of the Wild. My personal opinion is that the one in MotW is more balanced, it requires more skill ranks prereqs, minimum STR, can't hold items in either hand, or wear heavier than medium armor.
As I mentioned in a previous comment, my GM and I did not work out the limitations of "woodswalk". But it makes sense to do so. I haven't had a chance to talk to him about it yet, but I will. I think the limitations will be "only carry a light load" "no heavy armor" and perhaps some skill or attribute prerequisites might be warranted. My dryad has a dex of 16 already so it's not likely a dex prerequisite would hurt her.
We had only talked about it for moving at "walking speed" so weren't thinking of using it to run or charge, so that might be more limiting than the brachiation feat. It was pure flavor anyway, in two+ years of playing my druid drylf character I've managed to use the ability exactly once and the GM of that session nailed her with two crossbow bolts on her first use of it. So it's not a big game deal, or at least hasn't been so far.
As I mentioned in a previous comment, my GM and I did not work out the limitations of "woodswalk". But it makes sense to do so. I haven't had a chance to talk to him about it yet, but I will. I think the limitations will be "only carry a light load" "no heavy armor" and perhaps some skill or attribute prerequisites might be warranted. My dryad has a dex of 16 already so it's not likely a dex prerequisite would hurt her.
We had only talked about it for moving at "walking speed" so weren't thinking of using it to run or charge, so that might be more limiting than the brachiation feat. It was pure flavor anyway, in two+ years of playing my druid drylf character I've managed to use the ability exactly once and the GM of that session nailed her with two crossbow bolts on her first use of it. So it's not a big game deal, or at least hasn't been so far.
I'd say if it was base move only (no fast movement like charge or run), light load, and no heavy armor, then it's probably just a 4pt ability.
If that's the case, and half healing is only 1pt, then I think you have a 9-10 point race. Higher or lower depending on how much forest environment the character gets to play in versus inside/underground environment.With that, I'd say this race is balanced with the core races. In certain situations maybe slightly less powerful but overall it's good IMO.