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Best Fighter Build- Levels 1 thru 20


Advice

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Ok, I am making a fighter character for a hopefully long campaign. This is our first crack at using the Pathfinder rules. Now that fighters gain a feat at every level, I'm having a hard time trying to prioritize feats. As a straight up brute, I am cosidering this starting out, but need help for second level and beyond. Help?

Level 1
Human- Power Attack
Feat- Cleave
Fighter Feat- Weapon Focus

Level 2 - 20 ???


The way I see it there are 4 main ways to build an effective straight level fighter in PF.

1)Basic 2H fighter build. Power attack, cleave, great cleave are the biggies, then whatever seems fun to you. You can concentrate on one weapon if you like to try to maximize damage if there's a reasonable expectation of being able to further enhance that weapon with later treasure gains. Crit feats at level 9+ are a great asset here, and consider Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven Curved Blade).

2)Archery build. Weapon Focus/GWF (Longbow), Weapon Specialization/GWS (Longbow), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Many Shot. A bit more of multiple ability dependency, as you'll rely on dex for hit and str to damage with a composite longbow. The reason it is so effective in pathfinder is because Manyshot is now an additional arrow at your highest bonus, and Deadly Aim lets your damage scale much better. Penetrating strike is a good compliment to this build, but it's just plain good all-around too.

3)TWF Kukri. Two Weapon Fighting, Greater TWF, Improved TWF, WF/GWF (Kukri), WS/GWS (Kukri), Double Slice, Improved Crit (Kukri), Critical Focus, Bleeding Critical, etc. Basically just get a ton of attacks and fish for big crits. Lots of fun as you'll crit roughly 30% of the time.

4)TWF Shield Slam. TWF, Improved TWF, Double Slice, Shield Slam, Improved Shield Bash, Improved Bull Rush, Greater Bull Rush, Shield Focus, Shield Mastery, Dodge maybe. Benefits include absurdly high AC and ability to push monsters around like a schoolyard bully. Drawbacks include low overall attack bonus and occasional difficulty hitting.

With all builds Dodge, Power Attack (or Deadly Aim) and Toughness can easily be worked in for great effect.


There are a few other builds that may be second class, but can be quite
effective.

5. Reach Fighter: combat reflexes and power attack are a must. Str only needs to be around 15 or so to compensate for str damage so you don't lose access to power attack immediately. Agile manuvers with a high dex so people can't tumble around you. Spring attack is very strong with this build as is whirlwind attack. The feats that give you concealment when moving can be fun here too.

6. Thrown Weapon: this build works just like a ranged fighter, but adds in two weapon fighing, QuickDraw and power attack to double as a switch hitter (ranged and melée combatant)

7. Expertise Fighter: you will almost never use expertise, but you will take improved unarmed strike and you will be taking weapons from people. You'll also be tripping foes, using reach weapons and taking combat reflexes to control what the opponents can do. This build is very MAD and not for the faint of heart!

8. Meat Wall: AC improving feats, toughness, some shield stuff, but not two weapon fighting. You're designed to out last everyone else. Saving Throw feats
along with their improved versions apply here as well. This is better as an NPC in my opinion.


Hexcaliber wrote:

There are a few other builds that may be second class, but can be quite

effective.

5. Reach Fighter: combat reflexes and power attack are a must. Str only needs to be around 15 or so to compensate for str damage so you don't lose access to power attack immediately. Agile manuvers with a high dex so people can't tumble around you. Spring attack is very strong with this build as is whirlwind attack. The feats that give you concealment when moving can be fun here too.

6. Thrown Weapon: this build works just like a ranged fighter, but adds in two weapon fighing, QuickDraw and power attack to double as a switch hitter (ranged and melée combatant)

7. Expertise Fighter: you will almost never use expertise, but you will take improved unarmed strike and you will be taking weapons from people. You'll also be tripping foes, using reach weapons and taking combat reflexes to control what the opponents can do. This build is very MAD and not for the faint of heart!

8. Meat Wall: AC improving feats, toughness, some shield stuff, but not two weapon fighting. You're designed to out last everyone else. Saving Throw feats
along with their improved versions apply here as well. This is better as an NPC in my opinion.

5-You're absolutely right and it's one I plum forgot about. A+. Combat Reflexes, and Improved/Greater Trip.

6-This ends up being somewhat untenable and expensive. You still need point blank and precise shot. Either you will be enchanting 20-30 daggers up to an appropriate level, or enchanting shuriken which is treated as ammunition so you get a deal on it, but they are likely irretrievable after being thrown.

7-This is precisely what I mean about my first build, these are excellent diversions to a main build.

8-Kind of doesn't work. If you can't do damage and can't be hit then monsters will ignore you. You become a lump.


Probably most effective and versatile is THF, Bow switch hitter w/quick draw.

Fighter's have enough feats to do this.

Also, everyone likes to say trip builds suck after 13, This is only semi true- if you have a reliable way to get Large (either standing agreement w/caster or Magic item) you can make tripping viable longer as it will let you trip up to huge creatures. And below 13 Tripping rocks (where most of the game is played)- feat retraining can fix it later...

Osirion

What kind of fighter are you making? Do you want recommendations? Feat suggestions? What race are you doing?

I have a pretty fun build for an Aldori Dueling Master I want to NPC up sometime, but I could show you the build. I also have builds for TWFs, sword and boards, ranged, and a few other esoteric ones. What kind of 'tank' do you prefer?


Ardenup wrote:

Probably most effective and versatile is THF, Bow switch hitter w/quick draw.

Fighter's have enough feats to do this.

Also, everyone likes to say trip builds suck after 13, This is only semi true- if you have a reliable way to get Large (either standing agreement w/caster or Magic item) you can make tripping viable longer as it will let you trip up to huge creatures. And below 13 Tripping rocks (where most of the game is played)- feat retraining can fix it later...

Very good points. Archetypes 1 and 2 can be the same characters, because being a THF only takes power attack and cleave, basically. You can either focus on your 2H and take some archery feats, or vise versa. Archery is very strong, but if you are the only warrior type character in the party, or the primary one, you may want to avoid it.

I always forget about the feat retraining for fighters now, another EXCELLENT addition. I'd say that the trip fighter is optimally combined with our reach fighter too. If tripping becomes hard too do, i.e. you start fighting a lot of fliers or huge+ creatures, retrain those feats no biggie.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Go for Step Up early. It's a keeper, and you'll use it for the _entire campaign_ at least once or more per battle. Enemy steps out of flank? Step back over so he's still being threatened and your ally can flank him again before your turn. Enemy steps away? Chase him so he's adjacent to another enemy so you can cleave. Enemy steps back to cast? Well, they better like casting defensively...

My 2h fighter feat tree would be like...:

4: Weapon Specialization
5: Step Up
6: Great Cleave
7: Combat Reflexes
8: Greater Weapon Focus
9: Improved Critical
10: Critical Focus
11: Bleeding Critical
12: Greater Weapon Specialization
13: Staggering Critical
14: Critical Mastery
15: ~


I can't suggest archery enough, the ability to make a full attack almost every round and make almost as many attacks as a two weapon fighter is just nuts.

----------------------
Archer
----------------------
1: Point Blank Shot
1F: Precise Shot
1H: Rapid Shot
2F: Weapon Focus
3: Deadly Aim
4F: Weapon Specialization
5: Improved Initiative
6F: Manyshot
7: Leadership
8F: Greater Weapon Focus
9: Improved Critical
10F: Critical Focus
11: Bleeding Critical
12F: Greater Weapon Specialization
13: Staggering Critical
14F: Critical Mastery
15: Penetrating Strike
16F: Greater Penetrating Strike

It's worth considering delaying some of this by a level or so to take one level of Barbarian around level 5. The added mobility, strength, and constitution is just way too nice.

Cheliax

I'm playing a fighter in my campaign right now. He's currently level 14 and I'm loving him. He's gone full feats on the Longsword and the Tower Shield. I'm sitting at 40AC (with feats, and magical items), around 240 HP, and I have a weapon of speed to get an extra hit as well as a few critical feats. I'm not the biggest DPS, but 1d8+16 damage per hit isn't bad. And a few crit strings and the target is done for.

So yes, going single weapon focus and being a meat shield can work very well in PF. With all the damage bonuses a fighter gets now, he can maintain a good amount of damage output.

Cheers,
Ulf.


I really like your build Ice Titan. I am shooting for a 2H in-your-face type character and this may just do the trick.

Cheliax

valshea wrote:

Ok, I am making a fighter character for a hopefully long campaign. This is our first crack at using the Pathfinder rules. Now that fighters gain a feat at every level, I'm having a hard time trying to prioritize feats. As a straight up brute, I am cosidering this starting out, but need help for second level and beyond. Help?

Level 1
Human- Power Attack
Feat- Cleave
Fighter Feat- Weapon Focus

Level 2 - 20 ???

Pathfinder only or do you get other 3.5 books as well?

Also, what's your weapon?

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
meatrace wrote:

4)TWF Shield Slam. TWF, Improved TWF, Double Slice, Shield Slam, Improved Shield Bash, Improved Bull Rush, Greater Bull Rush, Shield Focus, Shield Mastery, Dodge maybe. Benefits include absurdly high AC and ability to push monsters around like a schoolyard bully. Drawbacks include low overall attack bonus and occasional difficulty hitting.

With all builds Dodge, Power Attack (or Deadly Aim) and Toughness can easily be worked in for great effect.

I use a variation of 4... instead of Improved Bull Rush and Greater Bull Rush (which I find wasted on me as you can only shield slam once per round in the off-hand, since I also do not take Improved TWF...) I use combat reflexes, stand still and step up. I have my cohort or the party wizard enlarge my fighter for increased reach, and this, combined with combat reflex, results in added AoOs, and the stand still and step up then become very effective means of battlefield control.

Very nice, very nice indeed...


Half-Orc, Two sickles, Splint mail. Go for an initiative boost early on. Look towards shield master for bash or defense with off hand. In general a fighter is going to be a better character with non-combat skills like dungeoneering or herbalism. Find ways to present wisdom even if your Wis is low. Definetaly put a strong score in Cha, charisma is important in these rules. Probably it is best to only be a half-orc if everybody else in the party is half-orc too.


Karui Kage wrote:
I have a pretty fun build for an Aldori Dueling Master I want to NPC up sometime, but I could show you the build. I also have builds for TWFs, sword and boards, ranged, and a few other esoteric ones. What kind of 'tank' do you prefer?

I'd like to see that Aldori duelist. Sounds really cool.


Diabhol wrote:


Pathfinder only or do you get other 3.5 books as well?

Also, what's your weapon?

I have all the 3.5 books but am looking only to use Pathfinder materials. My weapon is a Bastard sword.I am tacking on a sheild for bashing and such. So now, where do I go from here?

A few revisions aside, I am going:

Human- Exotic Weapon Prof. (Bastard Sword)
1st Lvl- Power Attack
Fighter- Cleave

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
valshea wrote:
Diabhol wrote:


Pathfinder only or do you get other 3.5 books as well?

Also, what's your weapon?

I have all the 3.5 books but am looking only to use Pathfinder materials. My weapon is a Bastard sword.I am tacking on a sheild for bashing and such. So now, where do I go from here?

A few revisions aside, I am going:

Human- Exotic Weapon Prof. (Bastard Sword)
1st Lvl- Power Attack
Fighter- Cleave

Might as well go dwarf instead, if you plan on wasting a feat of Bastard Sword (dwarves get the 1d10 dwarven waraxe for free, plus they have darkvision, plus they have stability, etc.)

Editor, Jon Brazer Enterprises

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Might as well go dwarf instead, if you plan on wasting a feat of Bastard Sword (dwarves get the 1d10 dwarven waraxe for free, plus they have darkvision, plus they have stability, etc.)

Doesn't Pathfinder drop the dwarven waraxe?

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kevin Morris wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Might as well go dwarf instead, if you plan on wasting a feat of Bastard Sword (dwarves get the 1d10 dwarven waraxe for free, plus they have darkvision, plus they have stability, etc.)
Doesn't Pathfinder drop the dwarven waraxe?

Lemme check... no:

"Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves are proficient with battleaxes, heavy picks, and warhammers, and treat
any weapon with the word “dwarven” in its name as a martial weapon."


I think Lunge is also a very viable Feat.

Re: Feat re-training, whenever you decide Trip isn't cutting it, retraining into Stand Still is a very viable option:
It doesn't suffer the Stability/multi-legged CMD bonus, doesn't have any Size limitations, and works just fine against fliers.

Even if you don't sink any Feats into it, having a bow for situations where it's useful seems a good idea, and at some point you should be able to choose Bows as a Weapon Training Group, if only your 2nd/3rd/4th group. And taking PBS, Rapid Fire & Multishot (no Precise Shot/ IPS because you're prepared for melee with your 2-Hander) isn't that many Feats for a high-level Fighter anyways. Extra attack on Full Attack even in your 3rd-tier weapon is better than charging in most of the time, let the Casters back up if they want space.

Quickdraw is good for getting that last Ranged Full Attack in yet switching to melee weapon (possibly Reach Weapon) before Enemy closes, and even better dealing with switching melee weapon types mid-battle, e.g. if dealing with DR or if grappled and can't use 2-Handed. If you play a game where wandering around openly looking the combat-mode soldier type isn't viable, QD obviously has benefits for going from everything-sheathed to ready-for-anything in a snap.

You should consider Vital Strike, which is useful against single enemies where Cleave is irrelevant and when it's necessary/preferable to move + attack, but remember it's least effective with the lower damage/high crit weapons like Falchion, more suitable for Greatswords/Earthbreakers and the like. Realistically, I would never take more than 1st level of VS unless I was going for a Spring Attack specialist, it just isn't worth it.

2 Hander Example: (Human)

Spoiler:

1: Weapon Focus: Falchion or Greatsword or Glaive ---> retrain as necessary
F: Power Attack
H: Cleave
2: Lunge OR Combat Expertise ---> retrain to Stand Still when Trip doesn't work enough
3: Iron Will OR Imp Trip ---> retrain to Great Cleave when Trip doesn't work enough
4: Weapon Specialization Weapon Training: Heavy Blades or Polearms

5: Iron Will or Step Up (pick up Guisarme for Reach Trip?)
6: Vital Strike OR Weapon Focus: 2ndary weapon (damage type, ranged, etc) --->retrain as needed
7: Combat Reflexes
8: Greater Weapon Focus: X Weapon Training: Flails or Hammers or Polearms
9: Improved Critical: X (switch to higher crit wpn if didn't use before)
10: Critical Focus
11: Iron Will or Improved Iron Will
12: Greater Weapon Specialization: X Weapon Training: 3rd weapon type
13: Staggering Critical
14: Improved Iron Will or Toughness
15: Improved Initiative


Quandary wrote:

I think Lunge is also a very viable Feat.

Re: Feat re-training, whenever you decide Trip isn't cutting it, retraining into Stand Still is a very viable option, it doesn't suffer the Stability/multi-legged CMD bonus, doesn't have any Size limitations, and works just fine against fliers.

Lunge and Great Cleave for maximum effect!

Stand Still is viable but not that useful-- enemies can still attack you. If you're the front line fighter, focus on doing damage and destroying people. They can't hurt the wizard in the back when they're dead.


Ice Titan wrote:
Quandary wrote:

I think Lunge is also a very viable Feat.

Re: Feat re-training, whenever you decide Trip isn't cutting it, retraining into Stand Still is a very viable option, it doesn't suffer the Stability/multi-legged CMD bonus, doesn't have any Size limitations, and works just fine against fliers.

Lunge and Great Cleave for maximum effect!

Stand Still is viable but not that useful-- enemies can still attack you. If you're the front line fighter, focus on doing damage and destroying people. They can't hurt the wizard in the back when they're dead.

It's a viable tactic, but the problem is that you GIVE UP doing damage to try to stop him. Improved/Greater trip is better for this, because if you succeed you stop them in their tracks and they provoke again so BAM.

Editor, Jon Brazer Enterprises

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Lemme check... no:

"Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves are proficient with battleaxes, heavy picks, and warhammers, and treat
any weapon with the word “dwarven” in its name as a martial weapon."

It's strange. I've had the book for about a month now, and I've read through the equipment section several times, and *every time* I've been surprised to not see the dwarven waraxe...

And now I see that it's there. Apparently I only learned to read today.


Kevin Morris wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Lemme check... no:

"Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves are proficient with battleaxes, heavy picks, and warhammers, and treat
any weapon with the word “dwarven” in its name as a martial weapon."

It's strange. I've had the book for about a month now, and I've read through the equipment section several times, and *every time* I've been surprised to not see the dwarven waraxe...

And now I see that it's there. Apparently I only learned to read today.

I know how that goes, I had my own brainfart earlier today on these very forums. It's like you've read over it so many times your eyes skip over what you've seen and somehow miss what you're looking for. Part of is also that we don't all know what has changed in this edition STILL until we stumble upon it.


OP, there are 2 types of fighters in Pathfinder that are really a lot better than the rest.

The first is the TWF Shield Bash Fighter. This fighter has 3rd-highest Damage Per Round of the fighter builds (after TWF Kukri and Archer), and the highest AC in the game. It is a tough as hell build.

The second is the Mounted Archer. This build has the highest DPR in the game, and is almost impossible to hit.

The actual feat selections are pretty simply, so I won't enumerate them. But I highly recommend these two builds if you want to play a powerful straight fighter in PF.

-Cross


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Might as well go dwarf instead, if you plan on wasting a feat of Bastard Sword (dwarves get the 1d10 dwarven waraxe for free, plus they have darkvision, plus they have stability, etc.)

I am playing a Human for Role-playing purposes, I don't consider Exotic Weapon Prof. a "waste" of a feat if a Bastard sword is what I wish to weild as a weapon. I don't normally build a character around "racial" abilities, I build them to create a character that I will enjoy playing.


Excuse me while I park my horse! Mounted archer are superb, but you don't have to be a fighter to do that. Spears make great range weapons and can be used close as well as for reach. Or, spend some money on a chariot and drive right over them. That could make an exciting saturday night as crisscross the battlefield with a team of heavy horses. There's no level requirement for that, is there?

Osirion

I'm actually currently playing a Cleric of Shelyn in a Curse of the Crimson Throne game who plays a lot like the Reach Fighter, and I'm LOVING it.

But I keep asking myself... What if I had gone with Fighter? Or introduced a fighter later on?

Combat Reflexes is great. That, combined with Whirlwind Attack/Cleave/Great Cleave, and throw in the Lunge Feat... all while having the wizard cast/carry a wand of Enlarge Person on you?

I made a point of taking Improved Unarmed Strike to be able to hit adjacent enemies. I can only think that a Fighter could really succeed at this role. I HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend it, from my own experience.

If reach weapons aren't your cup of tea, I recommend the Switch Hitter. It's not hyper-optimized, but you'll ALWAYS be effective in EVERY fight, which is more than can be said about most builds.

*(Edit: For those who critique my Cleric of Shelyn who recommend a Battle Oracle... I specifically wanted a character that worshipped Shelyn, because she is, by far, my favorite goddess of the Pathfinder Pantheon. Shelyn = Air Mystery. Plus... I personally love prepared spellcasters.)


Here is a melee build

Half Orc (gets +2 str free falchion feat use), or if using Tome of Secrets Half Ogre or any str bonus race

Str 20 or 22 (Half Ogre)

Using Great Falchion (1d12 18-20/x2) or Large Urumi (2d6 19-20/x2) has 10' reach

L1 Barbarian for Rage Power Attack
L2 Fighter Cleave
L3 Fighter Bravery+1 EWP(Urumi),WF(Urumi)
L4 Fighter Armor Training 1
L5 Fighter WS(Urumi),Great Cleave
L6 Fighter Weapon training 1
L7 Fighter Combat Reflexes, Lunge

So at 7th level while raging with a large urumi

Damage, Raging, Race +2 Str bonus
Str WS PA WT
2d6+ 10 + 2 + 6 + 1 = 2d6+19

Damage, Raging, Race +4 Str bonus
2d6+ 12 + 2 + 6 + 1 = 2d6+21

2d6+19 damage with 15' reach w/ lunge and combat reflexes


jyster wrote:

Here is a melee build

Half Orc (gets +2 str free falchion feat use), or if using Tome of Secrets Half Ogre or any str bonus race

Str 20 or 22 (Half Ogre)

Using Great Falchion (1d12 18-20/x2) or Large Urumi (2d6 19-20/x2) has 10' reach

L1 Barbarian for Rage Power Attack
L2 Fighter Cleave
L3 Fighter Bravery+1 EWP(Urumi),WF(Urumi)
L4 Fighter Armor Training 1
L5 Fighter WS(Urumi),Great Cleave
L6 Fighter Weapon training 1
L7 Fighter Combat Reflexes, Lunge

So at 7th level while raging with a large urumi

Damage, Raging, Race +2 Str bonus
Str WS PA WT
2d6+ 10 + 2 + 6 + 1 = 2d6+19

Damage, Raging, Race +4 Str bonus
2d6+ 12 + 2 + 6 + 1 = 2d6+21

2d6+19 damage with 15' reach w/ lunge and combat reflexes

Half-orcs are proficient with falchions, not great falchions. Great falchions are an exotic weapon and require a feat to use.


Crosswind wrote:

OP, there are 2 types of fighters in Pathfinder that are really a lot better than the rest.

The first is the TWF Shield Bash Fighter. This fighter has 3rd-highest Damage Per Round of the fighter builds (after TWF Kukri and Archer), and the highest AC in the game. It is a tough as hell build.

The second is the Mounted Archer. This build has the highest DPR in the game, and is almost impossible to hit.

The actual feat selections are pretty simply, so I won't enumerate them. But I highly recommend these two builds if you want to play a powerful straight fighter in PF.

-Cross

I'm trying to put together a TWF Basher for an upcoming game, but I'm a little stuck.

Is it better to use a heavy shield and light weapon, or light shield and one-handed weapon?

The light shield gives me a bigger main-hand hit, but less defence and bash damage. OTOH, the heavy shield gives me better defence and makes both hands about the same damage-wise (not great though).

It seems to me that the light shield might be better, especially once Shield Slam happens. Opinions?


Some thoughts on the subject: Real hand-to-hand weapons can be elegant but are (were) not the weapons we imagine. The spiked hammer for one or barbed length of rope. Another suggestion is the kukri and the club. So while you are at, whatever it is you choose, add spikes.


TLO3 wrote:
jyster wrote:

Here is a melee build

Half Orc (gets +2 str free falchion feat use), or if using Tome of Secrets Half Ogre or any str bonus race

Str 20 or 22 (Half Ogre)

Using Great Falchion (1d12 18-20/x2) or Large Urumi (2d6 19-20/x2) has 10' reach

L1 Barbarian for Rage Power Attack
L2 Fighter Cleave
L3 Fighter Bravery+1 EWP(Urumi),WF(Urumi)
L4 Fighter Armor Training 1
L5 Fighter WS(Urumi),Great Cleave
L6 Fighter Weapon training 1
L7 Fighter Combat Reflexes, Lunge

So at 7th level while raging with a large urumi

Damage, Raging, Race +2 Str bonus
Str WS PA WT
2d6+ 10 + 2 + 6 + 1 = 2d6+19

Damage, Raging, Race +4 Str bonus
2d6+ 12 + 2 + 6 + 1 = 2d6+21

2d6+19 damage with 15' reach w/ lunge and combat reflexes

Half-orcs are proficient with falchions, not great falchions. Great falchions are an exotic weapon and require a feat to use.

If you actually read what I post the weapon I used was the urumi and if using the great falchion you just substitue the great falchion feats. Plus you can argue that a half orc could use the great falchion without spending a feat.


You could argue it, but it wouldn't be RAW. The great falchion is an exotic weapon for a reason. It has greataxe damage with 18-20 threat range. Nothing says that orcs get proficiency with them.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Do none of your GM's just say no?

I can't imagine allowing a PC in my campaign to use a scythe, dual kukris (or any kukris) or an urimi or any of that stuff. "It's not consistent with the (pseudo-European) setting," I'd say. "You're not the Angel of Death," I'd continue, "You're a fighter. Pick up a mace or a longsword or a greatsword and stop asking me about katanas and kukris and great big anime swords."

No?

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Tarondor wrote:
No?

I use 'No' as a last resort. It is my duty to do everything I can to not say no.

Where is this great falchion everyone is talking about?


Tarondor wrote:

Do none of your GM's just say no?

I can't imagine allowing a PC in my campaign to use a scythe, dual kukris (or any kukris) or an urimi or any of that stuff. "It's not consistent with the (pseudo-European) setting," I'd say. "You're not the Angel of Death," I'd continue, "You're a fighter. Pick up a mace or a longsword or a greatsword and stop asking me about katanas and kukris and great big anime swords."

No?

What if the PC in your campaign was from Vudra or Tian Xia?


DrowVampyre wrote:

What if the PC in your campaign was from Vudra or Tian Xia?

What about the Garundi, Keleshites, Kellid, Mwangi,and Varisians? Surely they aren't pseudo-European too? :)

Andoran

valshea wrote:

Ok, I am making a fighter character for a hopefully long campaign. This is our first crack at using the Pathfinder rules. Now that fighters gain a feat at every level, I'm having a hard time trying to prioritize feats. As a straight up brute, I am cosidering this starting out, but need help for second level and beyond. Help?

Level 1
Human- Power Attack
Feat- Cleave
Fighter Feat- Weapon Focus

Level 2 - 20 ???

If you're looking for a DPR monster, go with an archer. Archery isn't as feat intensive as some of the other builds, so it will leave you with enough feats left over to drop some and get some decent 2HW damage in instances where you can't use your bow.

The advantages of archer over other builds: You can full-attack 99.9% of the time. Your foes are always within range (how much combat takes place outside of 110ft?) You dont have to invest near as many feats as you do to TWF (PB shot, precise shot, rapid shot, many shot, and deadly aim and you've got your basics taken care of). You will have a high dex and can get by with wearing light armor, so your movement isn't gimped.

Cheliax

Tarondor wrote:

Do none of your GM's just say no?

I can't imagine allowing a PC in my campaign to use a scythe, dual kukris (or any kukris) or an urimi or any of that stuff. "It's not consistent with the (pseudo-European) setting," I'd say. "You're not the Angel of Death," I'd continue, "You're a fighter. Pick up a mace or a longsword or a greatsword and stop asking me about katanas and kukris and great big anime swords."

No?

The kukri might not be pseudo-european, but the Falcata/Kopis is, and it wouldn't take much to reason that they'd be able to make a smaller, light, version of those weapons.

Cheliax

Xpltvdeleted wrote:
The advantages of archer over other builds: You can full-attack 99.9% of the time. Your foes are always within range (how much combat takes place outside of 110ft?) You dont have to invest near as many feats as you do to TWF (PB shot, precise shot, rapid shot, many shot, and deadly aim and you've got your basics taken care of). You will have a high dex and can get by with wearing light armor, so your movement isn't gimped.

If you are making a pure fighter, your movement won't be gimped either way, considering armor training.

Andoran

Bruno Kristensen wrote:
Xpltvdeleted wrote:
The advantages of archer over other builds: You can full-attack 99.9% of the time. Your foes are always within range (how much combat takes place outside of 110ft?) You dont have to invest near as many feats as you do to TWF (PB shot, precise shot, rapid shot, many shot, and deadly aim and you've got your basics taken care of). You will have a high dex and can get by with wearing light armor, so your movement isn't gimped.
If you are making a pure fighter, your movement won't be gimped either way, considering armor training.

Eventually they're not gimped, but dex fighters (archers, TWF) get it from the start. Also, when they do pick up armor training, they will gain more benefit from it due to having more dex.


overchill42 wrote:
Crosswind wrote:

OP, there are 2 types of fighters in Pathfinder that are really a lot better than the rest.

The first is the TWF Shield Bash Fighter. This fighter has 3rd-highest Damage Per Round of the fighter builds (after TWF Kukri and Archer), and the highest AC in the game. It is a tough as hell build.

The second is the Mounted Archer. This build has the highest DPR in the game, and is almost impossible to hit.

The actual feat selections are pretty simply, so I won't enumerate them. But I highly recommend these two builds if you want to play a powerful straight fighter in PF.

-Cross

I'm trying to put together a TWF Basher for an upcoming game, but I'm a little stuck.

Is it better to use a heavy shield and light weapon, or light shield and one-handed weapon?

The light shield gives me a bigger main-hand hit, but less defence and bash damage. OTOH, the heavy shield gives me better defence and makes both hands about the same damage-wise (not great though).

It seems to me that the light shield might be better, especially once Shield Slam happens. Opinions?

There are advantages to both. You can take maximum advantage of your weapon training by using a shield and a close weapon. Spiked heavy bashing shield is 2d6, not bad damage, should probably be your primary and a punching dagger or other light weapon as offhand if your DM is ok with a shield being a primary weapon. Dual Klar's could be an interesting build. Hands free to grapple/disarm and feat conservation on your weapon focus/specialization.


Diabhol wrote:
valshea wrote:

Ok, I am making a fighter character for a hopefully long campaign. This is our first crack at using the Pathfinder rules. Now that fighters gain a feat at every level, I'm having a hard time trying to prioritize feats. As a straight up brute, I am cosidering this starting out, but need help for second level and beyond. Help?

Level 1
Human- Power Attack
Feat- Cleave
Fighter Feat- Weapon Focus

Level 2 - 20 ???

Pathfinder only or do you get other 3.5 books as well?

Also, what's your weapon?

For a two-handed in your face fighter who goes the expertise/trip/disarm route the heavy flail 1d10 19-20/x2 trip, disarm is not a bad option. Almost as much damage as the greatsword and more options. Add an enlarge person and lunge and you are a force to be reconned with as battlefield control as well.

Cheliax

The issue with the trippers is losing your dump stat (Int) and having to put a 13 there usually sucks... Either you're dumping wis or you end up with lower physical stats.

Never take 1 level of barb; you'll regret it 100% of the time at high levels. Especially at 20 (fighter capstone is god).

I mean, you have the right idea; after power attack "whatever" is fine. You can take a combat manuever; or line up bow feats for a backup plan (Deadly Aim/PBS/rapid/multi... You don't need precise, since if it can be engaged in melée it will be). See Rogue's optimization guide for some details. And switch cleave once you pass 6th; it starts to suck about then, but rules the world before.


Thalin wrote:

The issue with the trippers is losing your dump stat (Int) and having to put a 13 there usually sucks... Either you're dumping wis or you end up with lower physical stats.

Never take 1 level of barb; you'll regret it 100% of the time at high levels. Especially at 20 (fighter capstone is god).

I mean, you have the right idea; after power attack "whatever" is fine. You can take a combat manuever; or line up bow feats for a backup plan (Deadly Aim/PBS/rapid/multi... You don't need precise, since if it can be engaged in melée it will be). See Rogue's optimization guide for some details. And switch cleave once you pass 6th; it starts to suck about then, but rules the world before.

Some people like skill points. If you go for max damage then you won't be tripping/disarming anyways, and you dump int to 7 it's all very good. For a more sophisticated fighter, which some would like to play, int 13-14 isn't so hard to achieve.

1-5 levels of barb can be an incredible dip for a fighter. How many campaigns go to level 20 to get this awesome capstone? Rage > weapon focus, greater weapon focus, and weapon specialization and stacks with these fighter feats. Uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge are noting to sniff at. Extra 10 ft movement is great.

Cheliax

Rage is atrocious (and incidentally, deadly to the user, pending house rules, after about 10th level). It doesn't scale well into high or even mid level play. Even ignoring 20th, you put off weapon and armor specialization, for what? A partial boost to your strength for some number of rounds per day?

If there's one thing Pathfinder did well, it's to make multi-classing bases "suck".

As to the sophisticated fighter; I don't necessarily disagree; but the tripmonkey setup is best done dwarf fighter (Str 16 Int/Wis/Dex/Con 14 Chr 5) weilding sword and board (the trip locks them into combat; and you get great saves and high AC). But that's not really a 2-hander build (no benefit).


Thalin wrote:

Rage is atrocious (and incidentally, deadly to the user, pending house rules, after about 10th level). It doesn't scale well into high or even mid level play. Even ignoring 20th, you put off weapon and armor specialization, for what? A partial boost to your strength for some number of rounds per day?

If there's one thing Pathfinder did well, it's to make multi-classing bases "suck".

As to the sophisticated fighter; I don't necessarily disagree; but the tripmonkey setup is best done dwarf fighter (Str 16 Int/Wis/Dex/Con 14 Chr 5) weilding sword and board (the trip locks them into combat; and you get great saves and high AC). But that's not really a 2-hander build (no benefit).

Barbarian 2 is a great stopping point. Rage gives you +4 STR so if you're doing a Two-handed fighter that is a +2 hit +3 damage at level 1. How is this atrocious? If you go with a reach weapon and combat reflexes you can count on ending some low level encounters before the enemies get to you. by 7th level you move 40 feet in mithril full plate, and have access to weapon training 1, weapon focus and specialization, and more HP than the average fighter. You don't HAVE to use rage, but it's really nice when you want it. The free bite attack isn't shabby either.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Just to reiterate, 2H and archery are really good back ups for each other. 2H is so not feat intensive that it is a cheap add on. Power Attack alone makes it viable.

Also, archery is great after level 6, but only so-so before that. It is especially bad compared to 2H at 1-3 (it can be hard to get a composite long bow with the appropriate strength when you have no money and your strength is probably higher than your Dex and you want to hit things) also Manyshot really makes the whole thing gel. But after Manyshot, you don't need much in the way of archery feats except weapon focus and the like.

H Step UP
1 Point Blank Shot
1 Power Attack
2 Precise Shot
3 Deadly Aim
4 Rapid Shot
5 Quick Draw
6 Manyshot
7 WF Falchion
8 Imp Crit Falchion
9 WS Falchion
10 GWF Falchion
11 Critical Focus
12 GWS Falchion
13 Staggering Crit
14 Critical Mastery
15 Improved Precise Shot
16 Bleeding critical
17 Weapon Focus Longbow
18 Weapon specialization longbow
19 GWS Longbow
20 GWS Longbow

This build is balanced (to my mind) around getting the best out of your surroundings. Sometimes a ranged weapon will flat out be better, like in difficult terrain or against flying creatures. But crits on a bow suck and crits generate a ton of damage after level 8. So my guess (and from a fair bit of testing it holds) that you are always better off will full attacks. But if you can get full attacks from either a bow or a 2H use the mellee weapon.

Cheliax

For those reasons, I'd actually avoide precise (if it's meleeable you'll melée) and get the focus / specialization early. Fighter ability to switch out feats really let's you optimize timing; and flying enemies really don't come out till 6 or 7 anyway. I'd focus in on the Falchion early, and do some later changeups to get the bow online. Similarly, I'd get bleeding critical online ASAP.

But the switcher is a great build; harder to ignore than most other builds; though a few (lunge etc) are missed.

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