I was thinking about running a game of 4th ed (probably some converted Paizo modules), but I've heard that there is a LOT of errata for the it. My question is, can the game be run with PHB 1, 2, 3 and MM 1 & 2 without any kind of subscription? I don't mind if small tweaks were made but I don't want to open up PHB 3 and realize a bunch of stuff doesn't make any sense because I didn't read the errata for PHB1. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
I was thinking about running a game of 4th ed (probably some converted Paizo modules), but I've heard that there is a LOT of errata for the it. My question is, can the game be run with PHB 1, 2, 3 and MM 1 & 2 without any kind of subscription? I don't mind if small tweaks were made but I don't want to open up PHB 3 and realize a bunch of stuff doesn't make any sense because I didn't read the errata for PHB1. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
The errata are mostly tweaks here and there. The biggest changes to PHB1 are noted in PHB2 (the Skill Challenge changes and the Stealth skill changes).
Also, the errata are available for anyone. right here. So yes, you can use those books without a subscription.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
If you haven't already bought the books, I'd recommend going with the subscription over purchasing the PHB II and III (and possibly the MMs). Those books are just compendiums of stats. If you get the subscription, you can print out the cards for the relevant abilities and then not have those books at the table, which saves space and reduces your reference time. Plus, you get access to the other content on the compendium with a subscription. The MMs have slightly more value because they include info that isn't available in the compendium (the knowledge checks for information about the creature, typical encounters, and the art), but I find the player oriented books (PHBII, PHBIII, X Power) to be a complete waste of money.
Personally, I can't imagine purchasing any of the player oriented books for 4e instead of getting a subscription. There really isn't enough value in them for me as the DM (or, for that matter, for my players, who typically use 3-5 feats/powers/etc. from such books, print them on cards, and don't reference those books again).
All that said though, the errata tweaks have been relatively light with the exception of the revisions to skill challenges. Those changes are pretty substantive and should probably be printed.
I was thinking about running a game of 4th ed (probably some converted Paizo modules), but I've heard that there is a LOT of errata for the it. My question is, can the game be run with PHB 1, 2, 3 and MM 1 & 2 without any kind of subscription? I don't mind if small tweaks were made but I don't want to open up PHB 3 and realize a bunch of stuff doesn't make any sense because I didn't read the errata for PHB1. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
I really, really encourage a subscription to D&D Insider before you start purchasing additional supplements. Subscribe, look it over, balance it against your needs as a DM, and if you still feel like you need the extra book supplements, then go out and buy them. A subscription is a smaller investment, contains almost all the info you'll need from those books, and has a ton of additional value in the form of magazine content, the compendium, character builder, monster builder, etc.
And, in case you were considering taking a look at my conversions, keep in mind that in order to run my AP conversions as written you will need access to D&D Insider.
I like a mix. DDI is great, I subscribe to it and it is something I really enjoy and would not want to do without.
But it has a *huge* weakness.
It lacks the fluff. Sometimes, that's really huge. Primal Power, for instance, is more useful for the fluff then the powers. It describes a lot about the Spirits that make it easier to RP Primal characters as well as run primal type adventures. For DM type books, the disparity is even greater.
DDI just gives crunch and while you can use it on it's own, IMO you lose a lot. The books give enough that I think that they are very worth buying, though YMMV.
The DDI is worth more than the books, especially if you split the cost with your group.
The errata is hit and miss. You could play for months without having any changes other than working. Or you could play a character for a few weeks and get hosed by the changes.
I tend to buy the PHBs (I'll be getting my PHB 3 on Saturday) but things like Martial Power 2 I'm not too keen on and have skipped. I do have a DDI subscription and don't feel my books are 'wastes'. The DMGs are invaluable and very few of the monsters in either MM have had errata. I love having the books handy to show off artwork or for the Lore sections of each (supposedly these are going to be expanded in future releases! yay!)
most of the changes in the eratta is just a word or two, sometimes as much as a full sentence. what makes the errata such a large document is that wotc has put in the entire power/what not with the change included. so you can see the whole entry. also, all the errata is in one document.
the ddi character builder and adventure tools are updated with the errata.
i have most of the books, i dont have dungeon delves, ebberon, or all the planes stuff, or phb3. i do have everything else.
ddi is something that is really nice to have. you also get access to all of the 4th edition dragon and dungeon magazines. the delve format makes it so easy to mine adventures for encounters.
get together, drink beer, role dice.
Thanks for the help and advise everyone. The errata really isn't as big as I thought.
I do already have the books that I listed in my original post. If I ever start to really get into 4th edition, I may consider insider, but the game that I am considering would be very casual and may not happen at all. So, a monthly commitment really isn't worth it right now.
I do have a couple questions about insider though. How much is it monthly? Are there a lot of good articles? Does it come with the Dungeon/ Dragon subscription still? The one thing that I am kind of disappointed by with the 4th ed books (at least the ones that I have) has been the lack of fluff. Do the articles in DDI make up for this?
I realize that I could go to their website to answer a lot of these questions, but I would rather hear it from customers and folks who use the product instead of people who want to sell it to me.
Thanks again.
the lack of fluff really revolves around the generic world that is being presented by the core product. the points of light world. there is no map, it really gives you a lot of freedom to make the fluff the way you want it to be.
ddi includes dragon and dungeon magazines. costs just under 10 dollars a month. (note that it is cheaper than subscriptions to the magazines when they were in print, and you get other things with it (character builder, adventure tools compendium, etc.)
i really like the magazines. they have split the content of the magazines, dragon is just player articles, and dungeon is just dungeon master articles.
dungeon has always been just dungeon masters, the main thing that changed with the move is that articles that were in dragon that were more dm type articles have been moved to dungeon.
this month dragon has articles on minotaurs, rituals, elves, wizards, sorcerer, dragonborn, assassins, channel divinity, devas, and shamen. every month, several races and several classes get some love, includes new powers, fluff, etc.
dungeon magazines new adventure path has been a reimigining of the keep of the boarderlands. i am very excited that on the 23rd the keep is being presented. there is an article on elemental motes, three adventures, adventure areas, and articles on skill challenges, forgotten realms and monsters.
last month there were 180 pages of content in the magazines. thats like a whole hardback of content each month.
get together, drink beer, role dice.
Wow, that is way more content than I thought. And way cheaper too.. If I were to subscribe, would I have access to the older material?
Wow, that is way more content than I thought. And way cheaper too.. If I were to subscribe, would I have access to the older material?
Yes, you would have access to all the materials.
|
Wow, that is way more content than I thought. And way cheaper too.. If I were to subscribe, would I have access to the older material?
Do it. You will not regret it. The Monster Builder alone is worth my monthly fee. The Character Builder is amazing on so many levels. I can't wait to see the other Adventure Tools. If they are even half as good as what we have now, I won't have any proper words left to describe how awesome that will be.
And even beyond that you get access to some fantastic 4e material in Dungeon and Dragon magazines. As a DM, Dungeon is particularly handy when I need a map or an encounter to fill in a bare spot in my campaign. You can even use some short adventures wholesale. The Chaos Scar series of short adventures (usually just a few encounters) is a great source for that kind of material. They are generally self-contained, linked together in the same location (the Chaos Scar) in a fashion very similar to Keep on the Borderlands. In fact, this month's Dungeon will contain an article adapting the original keep to the Chaos Scar. But simply removing them from that frame and using them in another setting would require very little work on your part.
In any case, I think you are pretty convinced but I had to chime in. I cannot say enough good things about the DDI. I heartily recommend it.
So I followed the advice of many of you and subscribed to a month of DDI. I've gotta say, I'm very impressed. Even though I don't have an active game, I'm having a lot of fun pouring over the Dungeon and Dragon articles and playing with the character builder.
Unfortunately I have no idea what I'm gonna do with all of this cool stuff, haha.
Okay, I've got another question, I figure I'll just keep using this thread. How difficult is it to have a game with only two players in 4th ed? I'm pretty comfortable running an NPC in PFRPG, but 4th seems more teamwork oriented. Seems like it might be a little weird being on both sides of the battle in this edition.
Okay, I've got another question, I figure I'll just keep using this thread. How difficult is it to have a game with only two players in 4th ed? I'm pretty comfortable running an NPC in PFRPG, but 4th seems more teamwork oriented. Seems like it might be a little weird being on both sides of the battle in this edition.
I've run a game with only 3 PCs, none of them
leaders or defenders, and it went off well.The main thing to consider is you have to tailor
the encounters so that they would have a fair shot
at winning. Depending on what class your PCs pick,
you should build the encounters around that, so in my
campaign we had a ranger, sorceror, and monk; I ended
up having maybe an equal amount of standard monsters (3)
with the rest filled by minions, give or take a monster
or two. Since I tailored it towards their setup, the fights
were fun, fairly quick, and deadly for both sides. So I
do think it's possible, but not without some insight.
How difficult is it to have a game with only two players in 4th ed?
The game works best with 4-5 characters. I suggest you let each player control two characters. This might not work if you've got players who are still learning the rules.
DMG2 has rules for creating "Companion characters" which are perfect for the situation you describe. Basically, the companions are followers, henchmen, animal companions, etc. They use similar rules to creating player characters, but are tweaked a bit to make them more streamlined. However, using those rules, you could easily add a couple more guys to the party.
How difficult is it to have a game with only two players in 4th ed?The game works best with 4-5 characters. I suggest you let each player control two characters. This might not work if you've got players who are still learning the rules.
DMG2 has rules for creating "Companion characters" which are perfect for the situation you describe. Basically, the companions are followers, henchmen, animal companions, etc. They use similar rules to creating player characters, but are tweaked a bit to make them more streamlined. However, using those rules, you could easily add a couple more guys to the party.
I'm doing that currently with my f2f group. I play
the paladin and warlord of the party, while another friendplays the ranger and rogue, while one more friend plays a
fighter. This can work well, but like Paul said if you're
still learning the rules it can be a bit tricky. From a rping
perspective, I hate it, since it seems one of the characters
you play always ends up disappearing into the background, or you
get all robin williams and end up having a multiple personality
disorder, trying to balance getting into each character in an instant.
I haven't tried using companions yet, but that could be good.
I guess it depends on how much rping you want to do, or if you don't
mind one character kind of in the background a lot.
I play with two other people all the time, which makes total of three. The players have their own characters, and I run a simple fighter/cleric. Add a companion and make it 4. We also rotate DM duties.
The biggest problem with a smaller group, is burning through too many powers per encounter. You may have to expirement with lowering the challenge rating.
I play with two other people all the time, which makes total of three. The players have their own characters, and I run a simple fighter/cleric. Add a companion and make it 4. We also rotate DM duties.
The biggest problem with a smaller group, is burning through too many powers per encounter. You may have to expirement with lowering the challenge rating.
That's pretty interesting. Has anyone messed with the power system using less players, like maybe making encounter powers usable twice per encounter? Maybe extra action points?
Edit: BTW, i don't have the DMG2 yet, but more streamlined NPCs sound pretty ingenious.
From a rping perspective, I hate it, since it seems one of the characters you play always ends up disappearing into the background
Yeah, I'd suggest having the companions be henchmen or lesser followers. They can hold their own in combat, but they're clearly not the heroes of the story.
From a rping perspective, I hate it, since it seems one of the characters you play always ends up disappearing into the backgroundYeah, I'd suggest having the companions be henchmen or lesser followers. They can hold their own in combat, but they're clearly not the heroes of the story.
Animals and friendly monsters like Unicorns make good choices in this regard. They help out - are often even really cool and fun to role play with but they don't drive the story.