harmor |
Instead at the morning?
Each morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells or regains spell slots, he can also imbue one staff with a portion of his power so long as one or more of the spells cast by the staff is on his spell list and he is capable of casting at least one of the spells. Imbuing a staff with this power restores one charge to the staff, but the caster must forgo one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the highest-level spell cast by the staff.
Was "morning" meant for Divine casters only? Or do you loose access to that spell slot for 24 hours?
Hunterofthedusk |
I think that was because it is generally assumed that people prepare their spells in the morning. Not all divine casters get their spells in the morning anyways, they could get their spells in the evening, at dusk, at midnight, or in the afternoon. You just have to choose at character creation which time of day.
I think it's safe to assume that you charge it whenever you prepare the bulk of your spells, whatever time that happens to be. Otherwise it would destroy night-owls like necromancers and clerics of Desna.
Sunaj Janus |
I think that the key point with staves is to lose a spell slot that wasn't prepared or ready. So if you prepared a spell in the slot, I wouldn't allow it, but If for some reason you kept a slot in reserve for preparation at a latter time, I would let you spend it to recharge a staff. Of course this would give an advantage to spontaneous spellcasters, so it may be best to just say it is to be done as part of your morning preparation ritual.
Enevhar Aldarion |
Morning is just the generic, default time for spells to refresh because you sleep at night and adventure during the day. Of course, if you are underground while adventuring, your "morning" comes after whatever time of day or night your party stops to sleep and re-memorize spells, meditate, pray or whatever.
Also, my DMs must have house-ruled what you are talking about, or I may just be remembering old rules or even another system, but I thought that at the end of the day any unused spell levels could be cast and channeled into a wand or staff to recharge it, regardless of spell or original creator level. For example, a wand of fireballs casts a 3rd level spell, so for every 3 levels of spells you channel into the wand you would regain one charge.
Carpjay |
Also, my DMs must have house-ruled what you are talking about, or I may just be remembering old rules or even another system, but I thought that at the end of the day any unused spell levels could be cast and channeled into a wand or staff to recharge it, regardless of spell or original creator level. For example, a wand of fireballs casts a 3rd level spell, so for every 3 levels of spells you channel into the wand you would regain one charge.
I believe this was a house rule of yours...I recall recharging items being a lot like recrafting them, except you had the masterwork item itself already made.
mdt |
It hasn't come up in my game, but I'd lean towards something like this.
Either recharge in the morning by giving up spell points (we use spell points), or, if you have the spell memorized but uncast at the end of the day, you can then recharge it using that spell. But, you can't use, say, Greater Mage Armor to recharge say Fireball.
Selgard |
I would rule that the first time in a day that you figured your spells out, you would have to recharge the staff or give up the ability to do so for the day.
To me, the point of it is to make you give up something to recharge it. Waiting until the end of the day negates that.
If they wanted you to just cast a spell into it, the rules would have said "once a day yuo can expend a spell slot to recharge the staff" or some such. They chose not to word it that way.
Just my .02.
-S
Khuldar |
So lets say you memorize your spells in the morning a leave an open 3rd-level slot open. You have a Staff whose highest level spell is third.
So the day passes and you are now in combat. Is it a standard action to infuse the Staff with a charge so you could use it next round?
I'd say that you'd need the 15 minute minimum that wizards need to fill slots left blank. I think everyone but wizards need to do it when they mem spells/recover magic for the day. I can see the argument that wizard slots left empty might be used later in the day, but that's something to argue with your local GM.
Ainslan |
I would rule that the first time in a day that you figured your spells out, you would have to recharge the staff or give up the ability to do so for the day.
To me, the point of it is to make you give up something to recharge it. Waiting until the end of the day negates that.
If they wanted you to just cast a spell into it, the rules would have said "once a day yuo can expend a spell slot to recharge the staff" or some such. They chose not to word it that way.
Just my .02.
-S
I would agree with Selgard here. The point is to make you give up spells if you want to recharge. It's already much easier than it ever was in any previous edition. Also, you can fully recharge your staff during downtime pretty easily.
As for the fluff explanation, recharging must be done when you prepare spells, beacause it is a straining task that requires you to be fully fresh and concentrated, just like preparing spells. And it would take the same amount of time.
LazarX |
So lets say you memorize your spells in the morning a leave an open 3rd-level slot open. You have a Staff whose highest level spell is third.
So the day passes and you are now in combat. Is it a standard action to infuse the Staff with a charge so you could use it next round?
No... you get one opportunity per day to infuse a Staff, when you prepare your spells at the start. You don't do it then then that's it until tomorrow.
Caineach |
harmor wrote:No... you get one opportunity per day to infuse a Staff, when you prepare your spells at the start. You don't do it then then that's it until tomorrow.So lets say you memorize your spells in the morning a leave an open 3rd-level slot open. You have a Staff whose highest level spell is third.
So the day passes and you are now in combat. Is it a standard action to infuse the Staff with a charge so you could use it next round?
What if I prepare spells 3-4 times in a day? Which one do I choose, and why would I need to choose that one?
LazarX |
What if I prepare spells 3-4 times in a day? Which one do I choose, and why would I need to choose that one?
It's very simple... the first time you prepare spells in your day is when you are the freshest. That is the one and only opportunity you have to put A charge in your staff. If you don't so then, then you don't do so until the next day. The rules as intended were to limit the staff to one infused charge per day and no amount of monkeying the rules is going to change that.
Ravingdork |
Caineach wrote:It's very simple... the first time you prepare spells in your day is when you are the freshest. That is the one and only opportunity you have to put A charge in your staff. If you don't so then, then you don't do so until the next day. The rules as intended were to limit the staff to one infused charge per day and no amount of monkeying the rules is going to change that.What if I prepare spells 3-4 times in a day? Which one do I choose, and why would I need to choose that one?
I partially disagree with this. I think they could recharge their staff whenever they prepare spells, to a limit of once per day.
In other words, if (for whatever reason) the wizard prepared his spells 4 times in one day (preparing 25% of his total allotment each time), then he would be able to drop 1 slot to charge the staff during the first, second, third, or fourth preparation period.
Once he did so, however, he would be unable to throw another charge into the staff until he rested for at least another 8 hours.
Selgard |
Myself, I would say:
Do it the first time, or you lose the ability until the next day.
Otherwise there's the simple temptation to keep a few spells back "just in case" and burn one you didn't use anyway at the end of the day. This negates the purpose, in my opinion, of the current wording of it.
Just my thoughts though.
-S
Ravingdork |
Myself, I would say:
Do it the first time, or you lose the ability until the next day.
Otherwise there's the simple temptation to keep a few spells back "just in case" and burn one you didn't use anyway at the end of the day. This negates the purpose, in my opinion, of the current wording of it.
Just my thoughts though.
-S
I think it sucks that the current wording doesn't already allow for that.
Also, you aren't really bypassing the wording either as a slot you didn't prepare a spell in didn't really do anything for you the whole day anyways. It's essentially the same as giving it up at the beginning of the day. Sure you now have the option of using said slot (provide you have time to prepare), but then you can't charge for that day.
Hardly sounds like it would be a problem.
james maissen |
I partially disagree with this. I think they could recharge their staff whenever they prepare spells, to a limit of once per day.
In other words, if (for whatever reason) the wizard prepared his spells 4 times in one day (preparing 25% of his total allotment each time), then he would be able to drop 1 slot to charge the staff during the first, second, third, or fourth preparation period.
Once he did so, however, he would be unable to throw another charge into the staff until he rested for at least another 8 hours.
There's a difference between leaving slots open and refreshing your slots for the day.
I believe that recharging staves comes at the refreshing slots for the day and forgoing some of those slots for charges.
To whit you could not leave 3 4th level slots open as a wizard and then at the end of the day elect to put 3 charges into a staff of ddoor.
-James
Ravingdork |
There's a difference between leaving slots open and refreshing your slots for the day.
There are so many problems with your statement's wording, I'm not entirely sure where to begin.
First, of course leaving slots open and refreshing your spells are different. That's equivalent to saying there's a difference between rocks and cars.
Second, that doesn't really address what I was saying.
The rules are clear in that you can leave spell slots open when you prepare spells after your 8 hour rest period (whenever you decide to take it). They are also clear that you can prepare spells in said slots later in the day if you wish. The staff rules also say that, when preparing spells, you can use up an un-used spell slot to put a single charge into the item. It also explicitly states that you can only do this once per day.
I believe that recharging staves comes at the refreshing slots for the day and forgoing some of those slots for charges.
Let me see if I understand you correctly. You believe that you MUST choose to recharge the stave during the preparation period immediately after your 8 hour rest (rather than a preparation period later in the day)?
If that is the case, then you have some ground to stand on due to the "each morning" bit of text mentioned in the OP's post. Still, by that strict interpretation, one could never rest in the day and prepare spells at night either. I feel sorry for vampire wizards if that's the case.
It's an either/or choice. You either go all in and interpret it so "you can only charge your staff and do initial spell preparation in the mornings," which doesn't make sense in a lot of instances as I've explained, or you don't and interpret it so "the reference to the morning is simply a really bad mistake or wording."
I am clearly the latter, you seem to be the former. Do I have our respective stances right?
To whit you could not leave 3 4th level slots open as a wizard and then at the end of the day elect to put 3 charges into a staff of ddoor.
-James
Of course not. The rules are clear that you can't do that. That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that you could do that ONCE per day.
james maissen |
I am clearly the latter, you seem to be the former. Do I have our respective stances right?
I take it that you can not have a day's spells in potential for a period of your adventuring day and then convert it into a staff charge.
For example, you could not leave a 4th level slot open in case you might need to use it and then at the end of the day elect to 'prepare it' into a staff charge.
-James
Ravingdork |
Ravingdork wrote:
I am clearly the latter, you seem to be the former. Do I have our respective stances right?
I take it that you can not have a day's spells in potential for a period of your adventuring day and then convert it into a staff charge.
For example, you could not leave a 4th level slot open in case you might need to use it and then at the end of the day elect to 'prepare it' into a staff charge.
-James
I understand that. What I'm curious about is WHY you believe that. Is it the "morning" text or is it something else?
LazarX |
I would agree with Selgard here. The point is to make you give up spells if you want to recharge. It's already much easier than it ever was in any previous edition.
Easier? in previous editions, a staff (with one or two exceptions) was nothing more than a multi-talented very tall wand which became nothing but a stick to beat people over the head with once it ran out of charges. There was no provision for recharging staves at all save by questing to hard to get and contested locations.
james maissen |
What I'm curious about is WHY you believe that. Is it the "morning" text or is it something else?
The regains spell slots firms it in my mind.
Paizo has done precious little to pull back the lack of Thesaurus or creativity when it came to naming terms on the part of D&D. The worst offender is 'level' but preparing spells is another place of confusion. They didn't come up with a term for refreshing spell slots vs preparing spells in refreshed slots. Perhaps they figured it would be confusing, or perhaps that is not a factor in a game with such a myriad of uses (some concurrent) for the word 'level'.
Can a 1st level wizard (with 11int, generalist) cast his one 1st level spell then rest for 8 hours, do it again, and so forth to in essence cast three 1st level spells in the day? Is there a difference between leaving a spell slot open and filling it later with recharging a spell slot for prepared casters?
To me there is the difference I describe, anyway have to run.
-James
Mistwalker |
I agree with Ravingdork.
The staff can only be charged once per day. That is the main criteria (well, along with only being able to charge one staff per day).
You have clerics that pray for their spells at various times a day. If you are strict in your interpretation of the wording, then only those that pray in the morning can recharge staves.
Can anyone show how it could be abused if the mage/cleric recharged a staff at the end of the day, rather than in the morning?
Caineach |
I agree with Ravingdork.
The staff can only be charged once per day. That is the main criteria (well, along with only being able to charge one staff per day).
You have clerics that pray for their spells at various times a day. If you are strict in your interpretation of the wording, then only those that pray in the morning can recharge staves.
Can anyone show how it could be abused if the mage/cleric recharged a staff at the end of the day, rather than in the morning?
I think his problem is that by Ravendork's interpretation everyone but wizards would be forced to choose when preparing or regaining spells if they want to recharge the staff immediately. Wizards can leave spell slots open and prepare later, and therefore can have multiple times to make the decision. Personally, I do not see a problem with this, as I feel giving Wizards a very minor advantage with weilding staffs is perfectly in flavor.
Sarandosil |
Caineach wrote:All of them, 1 charge each. (Assuming you can slip that past the DM. >:D )
What if I prepare spells 3-4 times in a day? Which one do I choose, and why would I need to choose that one?
I'd allow it. Spells per day is a shorthand, if it's RAI that you can only imbue a staff one time per day regardless of how many time you've refreshed your spells, it's lost in the wording.
Selgard |
To me it comes down to what I think their intent was.
Can I be wrong? Sure. Is it my opinion? Yes.
I think the intent is for the caster to choose whether or not to recharge a staff in their possession at the time of day when they usually regain their spells.
Yes, it is true a wizard can "hold slots" or whatever you want to call it, and fill them later- but they only regain slots once a day. it can be morning, noon, night, or midnight, but only once per 24 hours do they actually sit down and refill all their slots. Expended slots are refilled and unused can be exchanged for fresh spells. At that time of day is when I believe they have to make the decision- fill the staff or don't.
I do not believe they intended to give wizards the ability to leave 2 slots of a given level free just in case they decide later on to recharge their staff.
The rules are Never ever going to be written to exclude every single possible interpretation. It just can not be done. To some extent we have to try to figure out what they meant by what they said and I think the reasoning I have given above is pretty accurate in that regard.
-S
Kolokotroni |
I agree with Ravingdork.
The staff can only be charged once per day. That is the main criteria (well, along with only being able to charge one staff per day).
You have clerics that pray for their spells at various times a day. If you are strict in your interpretation of the wording, then only those that pray in the morning can recharge staves.
Can anyone show how it could be abused if the mage/cleric recharged a staff at the end of the day, rather than in the morning?
I think the point of the description is so the wizard/cleric/whatever cant just wait untill the end of the day, see if he has slots left right before he's rested and pump whatever spells he has left into the staff. I think that the time of day you do this shouldnt matter, just that you dont have that spell slot for the day if you use it to charge a staff.
Ravingdork |
I think that the time of day you do this shouldn't matter, just that you don't have that spell slot for the day if you use it to charge a staff.
This is what it's really all about. If you haven't prepared a spell in the spell slot for the day, you should be able to use it to charge the staff since it didn't contribute any other way in the slightest (just as it would have if you had charged the staff in the morning). In fact, the spell slot contributed even LESS since you didn't have the charge already in the staff available throughout that particular day.
Kolokotroni |
Kolokotroni wrote:I think that the time of day you do this shouldn't matter, just that you don't have that spell slot for the day if you use it to charge a staff.This is what it's really all about. If you haven't prepared a spell in the spell slot for the day, you should be able to use it to charge the staff since it didn't contribute any other way in the slightest (just as it would have if you had charged the staff in the morning). In fact, the spell slot contributed even LESS since you didn't have the charge already in the staff available throughout that particular day.
True, but this is akin to a sorceror using unused spells at the end of the day. The wizard COULD have used an unprepared spell slot if he stopped for 15 minutes. Its the hedging of your bets that I think is inappropriate.
james maissen |
Kolokotroni wrote:I think that the time of day you do this shouldn't matter, just that you don't have that spell slot for the day if you use it to charge a staff.This is what it's really all about. If you haven't prepared a spell in the spell slot for the day, you should be able to use it to charge the staff since it didn't contribute any other way in the slightest (just as it would have if you had charged the staff in the morning). In fact, the spell slot contributed even LESS since you didn't have the charge already in the staff available throughout that particular day.
Completely incorrect.
You had the spell slot in reserve all day, whereas the intent of staff recharging is that you have to do so at the start of the day.
I played a wizard in Living Greyhawk that was built around leaving LOTS of slots open (mage of arcane order, ring of theurgy, feats, etc) and then dynamically filling them to have the right tool for the job when it was presented.
Trust me when I say that having a slot open is NOT useless! The new pathfinder familiar alternative lessens this a bit, but its still a wizard strength,
James
Darkwolf |
Kolokotroni wrote:I think that the time of day you do this shouldn't matter, just that you don't have that spell slot for the day if you use it to charge a staff.This is what it's really all about. If you haven't prepared a spell in the spell slot for the day, you should be able to use it to charge the staff since it didn't contribute any other way in the slightest (just as it would have if you had charged the staff in the morning). In fact, the spell slot contributed even LESS since you didn't have the charge already in the staff available throughout that particular day.
No, what it's really all about is sacrifice. By committing a spell slot to recharge a staff you are giving up the option of having that spell slot available for the day. Bypassing this allows you to 'have your cake and eat it' and is not, IMO, the intent of the system.
Caineach |
Ravingdork wrote:No, what it's really all about is sacrifice. By committing a spell slot to recharge a staff you are giving up the option of having that spell slot available for the day. Bypassing this allows you to 'have your cake and eat it' and is not, IMO, the intent of the system.Kolokotroni wrote:I think that the time of day you do this shouldn't matter, just that you don't have that spell slot for the day if you use it to charge a staff.This is what it's really all about. If you haven't prepared a spell in the spell slot for the day, you should be able to use it to charge the staff since it didn't contribute any other way in the slightest (just as it would have if you had charged the staff in the morning). In fact, the spell slot contributed even LESS since you didn't have the charge already in the staff available throughout that particular day.
I think the intent of the wizards ability to not prepare slots is to give options like this, so I don't see anything wrong with allowing it. Yes, it makes wizards slightly more powerful with staves than other classes, but this seems pretty fitting to me.
Sevak Blackstaff |
Wolfthulhu wrote:I think the intent of the wizards ability to not prepare slots is to give options like this, so I don't see anything wrong with allowing it. Yes, it makes wizards slightly more powerful with staves than other classes, but this seems pretty fitting to me.Ravingdork wrote:No, what it's really all about is sacrifice. By committing a spell slot to recharge a staff you are giving up the option of having that spell slot available for the day. Bypassing this allows you to 'have your cake and eat it' and is not, IMO, the intent of the system.Kolokotroni wrote:I think that the time of day you do this shouldn't matter, just that you don't have that spell slot for the day if you use it to charge a staff.This is what it's really all about. If you haven't prepared a spell in the spell slot for the day, you should be able to use it to charge the staff since it didn't contribute any other way in the slightest (just as it would have if you had charged the staff in the morning). In fact, the spell slot contributed even LESS since you didn't have the charge already in the staff available throughout that particular day.
I think the intent of the Wizards ability is exactly what it seems, to give them a little bit of flexibility at the price of preparedness. Extending it beyond that is not gamebreaking by any means, but it is a stretch of the rules.
Caineach |
Caineach wrote:I think the intent of the Wizards ability is exactly what it seems, to give them a little bit of flexibility at the price of preparedness. Extending it beyond that is not gamebreaking by any means, but it is a stretch of the rules.
I think the intent of the wizards ability to not prepare slots is to give options like this, so I don't see anything wrong with allowing it. Yes, it makes wizards slightly more powerful with staves than other classes, but this seems pretty fitting to me.
I don't think its a strech of the rules at all. The rules are quite ambiguous, thus leading to the multiple interpretations that we currently have. There is no streching, only different interpretations.
Sevak Blackstaff |
And just to really throw a wrench in the works, I don't even think leaving spell slots open is allowed by RAW.
A wizard may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.
To prepare spells for the day a wizard requires 8 hours of sleep. Spending half the day slogging through dungeons pretty much eliminates any benefit of a well rested mind he had after he woke up that morning, thus his unprepared slots would be completely useless. Unless someone can point out a ruling that actually covers unprepared spell slots, this whole question is moot.
Chris Mortika RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
I would rule that the first time in a day that you figured your spells out, you would have to recharge the staff or give up the ability to do so for the day.
To me, the point of it is to make you give up something to recharge it. Waiting until the end of the day negates that.
If they wanted you to just cast a spell into it, the rules would have said "once a day yuo can expend a spell slot to recharge the staff" or some such. They chose not to word it that way.
I understand your position, Selgard, and I really appreciate how careful you've been to label this as your interpretation, and not try to twist anybody else's arm.
I feel I have to disagree, though, because your position creates a difference between a freshly renewed spell slot, and the same spell slot a couple of hours later. So far as I can tell, the PFRPG rules never suggest there's any difference. And I can't imagine how a staff would be able to distinguish between a 3rd-Level spell slot of a sorcerer who just woke up, versus the same spell slot after the same sorcerer cast a 1st-Level spell a minute later.
And just to really throw a wrench in the works, I don't even think leaving spell slots open is allowed by RAW.
Sevak, if that were true, I'd be baffled by this text from page 218:
When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest.
Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.
(Page 220 repeats most of this text for divine spellcasters.)
The Wraith |
And just to really throw a wrench in the works, I don't even think leaving spell slots open is allowed by RAW.
PFSRD wrote:A wizard may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.To prepare spells for the day a wizard requires 8 hours of sleep. Spending half the day slogging through dungeons pretty much eliminates any benefit of a well rested mind he had after he woke up that morning, thus his unprepared slots would be completely useless. Unless someone can point out a ruling that actually covers unprepared spell slots, this whole question is moot.
I think these rules can answer your question:
PRD -> Magic -> Arcane Spells -> Preparing Wizard Spells:
"Spell Selection and Preparation: Until he prepares spells from his spellbook, the only spells a wizard has available to cast are the ones that he already had prepared from the previous day and has not yet used. During the study period, he chooses which spells to prepare. If a wizard already has spells prepared (from the previous day) that he has not cast, she can abandon some or all of them to make room for new spells.
When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells."
and:
PRD -> Magic -> Divine Spells -> Preparing Divine Spells:
"Spell Selection and Preparation: A divine spellcaster selects and prepares spells ahead of time through prayer and meditation at a particular time of day. The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. When preparing spells for the day, a cleric can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells."
Kolokotroni |
I feel I have to disagree, though, because your position creates a difference between a freshly renewed spell slot, and the same spell slot a couple of hours later. So far as I can tell, the PFRPG rules never suggest there's any difference. And I can't imagine how a staff would be able to distinguish between a 3rd-Level spell slot of a sorcerer who just woke up, versus the same spell slot after the same sorcerer cast a 1st-Level spell a minute later.
I disagree with you, I think by RAW it can tell the difference. The text specifically states it's when the spellcaster prepares spells or regains slots. Raw definately excludes the sorceror after casting a spell, he can only do it when he regains his spell slots after resting.
That said, it also states the staff can ve recharged WHILE you are preparing/regaining spells. They say morning, because most players do this at the beggining of the day, and I think that the rules as intended are meant for when you are doing the bulk of your preparations.
I believe using a 'unprepared' slot by a wizard at the end of the day is an exploitation of a loophole in the rules. I wouldn't allow it at my table and I do believe it is counter to RAI.
"Each morning, when a spellcaster prepares spells or regains spell slots, he can also imbue one staff with a portion of his power so long as one or more of the spells cast by the staff is on his spell list and he is capable of casting at least one of the spells. Imbuing a staff with this power restores one charge to the staff, but the caster must forgo one prepared spell or spell slot of a level equal to the highest-level spell cast by the staff."
Sevak Blackstaff |
Sevak Blackstaff wrote:And just to really throw a wrench in the works, I don't even think leaving spell slots open is allowed by RAW.
PFSRD wrote:A wizard may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.To prepare spells for the day a wizard requires 8 hours of sleep. Spending half the day slogging through dungeons pretty much eliminates any benefit of a well rested mind he had after he woke up that morning, thus his unprepared slots would be completely useless. Unless someone can point out a ruling that actually covers unprepared spell slots, this whole question is moot.I think these rules can answer your question:
PRD -> Magic -> Arcane Spells -> Preparing Wizard Spells:
"Spell Selection and Preparation: Until he prepares spells from his spellbook, the only spells a wizard has available to cast are the ones that he already had prepared from the previous day and has not yet used. During the study period, he chooses which spells to prepare. If a wizard already has spells prepared (from the previous day) that he has not cast, she can abandon some or all of them to make room for new spells.When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells."
and:
PRD -> Magic -> Divine Spells -> Preparing Divine...
Ok, I knew it was used pretty universally but couldn't find the reference in my book. I still don't think that leaves it open for staff recharging though.
Majuba |
*agrees with Kolokotroni's support of Selgard's position*
There's no reason a Wizard or Cleric should be able to get the benefit of an open slot all day, and *then* charge up a staff during an "extra session of preparation". Those sessions are not identical to the morning one, you cannot drop spells memorized for new ones, only fill empty slots.
KenderKin |
This is a bunch of wierd stuff.
Used to be able to charge a staff/wand by casting the selected spell into the item. There was no time restriction at all.
If you had three magic missles memorized at the end of the day you use them to recharge your wand and start over...
I am not getting what the big deal is....
Chris Mortika RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
There's no reason a Wizard or Cleric should be able to get the benefit of an open slot all day, and *then* charge up a staff during an "extra session of preparation". Those sessions are not identical to the morning one, you cannot drop spells memorized for new ones, only fill empty slots.
Majuba, I apologize for being dense. Could you explain what the benefit is, of leaving a spell slot open and unprepared all day? I understand the flexibility of deciding --during the middle of an adventuring day-- to take fifteen or twenty minues and fill unprepared spell slots then, but I don't understand the advantage of going the entire day and never preparing anything in those spell slots.
If a wizard chose to do so, I honestly don't see a problem, nor a rules violation, with giving him the opportunity to use that unprepared spell slot (rather than a prepared but uncast spell, which I agree is not allowed) to recharge a staff.
The folks I play Pathfinder with treat staves as semi-consumables: you would use them up during an adventure and would only renew them during down-time between adventures. Any interpretation of the rules that encourages PCs to make difficult choices is a good one, and --at least for my gaming growd-- the requirement to drop an unprepared spell slot before the day's encounters begin makes the decision to recharge a staff an obviously and universally worse course of action than preparing the same spell slot.
Selgard |
The "benefit" is that you get to choose to use a spell that cost you nothing through the day and then recharge the staff, and the intent seems to be that the choice cost you something. It has the opportunity cost of you choosing to spend that slot for the day, rather than wait and see if you need it for something else.
You either decide when you regain your spells to recharge a staff, or you decide not to do so. You do not get the option to wait until the end of the day and then use an unused slot for it.
-S