Which spellcaster would you play?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'll consider switching to a staff or two once I look at the numbers a little closer.

james maissen wrote:

You are spending a feat and 28,500gp on those 3 items. Lets go with the following as an example:

Mithril Shirt (1100)
Mithril Buckler (1015)
Pearl 1st intelligent & give it GMW 2/day & MV 2/day (13000)

This strikes even me as being cheesy in much the same way that gauntlets of true striking are cheesy. I'm surprised that you missed out on Greater Magical Fang. That would allow me to give up the amulet of mighty fists on the eidolon in order to save big bucks.

I think I will stick with the magical weapons and armor. That way, should they ever get dispelled, I won't be combat ineffective for the remainder of the day.

james maissen wrote:
Sorry I somehow missed the mounted combat, as I said I only glanced at it quickly. I was going to say to get that +8 racial on ride.. (oh it might be nice to demark ranks in each skill with your skills if they are in flux for the planning stages.. also towards that any traits allowed?)

Our group usually tracks skill ranks in a separate document.

james maissen wrote:
Now why you want to try to use a bow without any feats/proficiencies when your eidolon is likely in combat with you riding him is beyond me. But it's not worth a feat and 16,000gp for that bow (not counting the 'slotless' bracers of archery). (And please buy cold iron arrows, then some silver & adamantine ones, at least until you can make it a respectible +5 if you are going this route).

The bow is the best ranged attack the summoner can get outside of spells. Also, the arrows aren't necessary. As a +4 bow, it bypasses cold iron, silver, and adamantine damage reduction.

The lesser bracers of archery are there to give him proficiency in the bow in the first place (otherwise he is stuck with a crappy one shot per two rounds heavy crossbow or a -4 to hit with the bow). I paid double to make the bracer slotless so it wouldn't interfere with the eidolon's bracers of armor.

james maissen wrote:
The mass bull's strength and bear's endurance will only help you, the eidolon and perhaps a party member or two without an item. Looking at the proposed party it doesn't seem likely. You have augment summoning which doesn't stack with those two spells for your summons (perhaps for other PCs' summons it would tho). They don't seem like good spell choices for you imho. I would simply craft a +4 (or better) item for the eidolon instead (would be like 16-20k gold, depending on available slot(s)).

Thanks for pointing that out. I had totally overlooked the fact that those spells don't stack with Augment Summoning.


Ravingdork wrote:


This strikes even me as being cheesy in much the same way that gauntlets of true striking are cheesy. I'm surprised that you missed out on Greater Magical Fang. That would allow me to give up the amulet of mighty fists on the eidolon in order to save big bucks.

I think I will stick with the magical weapons and armor. That way, should they ever get dispelled, I won't be combat ineffective for the remainder of the day.

Your call, but in general casters don't tend to target weapons/armor with dispels. And it's not really any more 'cheese' than having the party cleric cast Magic Vestments on you. If you would feel 'cleaner' you could simply make pearl 3s depending on the spells your other casters are carrying.

But it's your call. I just think that a feat and that amount of cash are far too much for what you are getting out of it.

Regardless you should look at a mithril bracer, it seems silly for you to outlay that much cash for defense and not have one.

Ravingdork wrote:


Our group usually tracks skill ranks in a separate document.

Just makes it easier to glance over the character while it's in the fine tuning stages.

Ravingdork wrote:


The bow is the best ranged attack the summoner can get outside of spells. Also, the arrows aren't necessary. As a +4 bow, it bypasses cold iron, silver, and adamantine damage reduction.

I'm sorry I thought that happened at +5 not +4. I only recently noticed this pathfinder addition and it's not firmly in my head.

But honestly I'd forgo the mundane attack form for magical ones. A staff of scorching ray (or admonishing bolt) weighs in around 4500gp and should do you better than the 6-7 rounds of arrows you were planning on carrying. Considering your chance to hit full AC vs touch AC and the arrows doing 2/3 of a bolt in damage, this even rates to be worthwhile against targets with SR (amount depends upon discrepancy in full/touch AC).

In general I think you could get more bang for your buck in a number of your purchases and I don't think you have your starting wealth fully working for you here.

-James
PS: Oh on stats, is it a 22CHA AFTER the +6 enhancement item?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
james maissen wrote:
Oh on stats, is it a 22CHA AFTER the +6 enhancement item?

Yes, the 22 Charisma is AFTER the headband is taken into account. Since so few of the summoner's spells rely on DCs, there wasn't much point in making the Charisma score higher than 16 (the minimum needed to cast 6th-level spells). The headband is really only there to enhance some of the Charisma-based skills and to increase the number of Summon Monsters he can get each day with his spell-like ability.

Also, I think I am going to remove the wands of fireball and lightning bolt and replace it with this item (by adding it's functionality to the +4 defending spear):

Staff of Vengeance
Aura
moderate conjuration and evocation; CL 8th
Slot none; Price 21,600gp; Weight 5 lbs.

This smooth oak staff allows use of the following spells:
Fireball (1 charge)
Lightning bolt (1 charge)
Sleet storm (1 charge)

Many staffs of vengeance also double as magical spears. Add the costs of the magical spear and the staff of vengeance together and use the spear’s weight value when using this variant.

Requirements Craft Staff, fireball, lightning bolt, sleet storm (requirements may vary for variant); Cost 10,800gp


Ravingdork wrote:
james maissen wrote:
Oh on stats, is it a 22CHA AFTER the +6 enhancement item?
Yes, the 22 Charisma is AFTER the headband is taken into account. Since so few of the summoner's spells rely on DCs, there wasn't much point in making the Charisma score higher than 16 (the minimum needed to cast 6th-level spells). The rest of the headband is really only there to enhance some of the Charisma-based skills.

Ah gotcha, that does change my view of some of your spell choices (and why you avoided a few of the nicer ones imho).

So is that a 21pt buy then? Or is my math off (figure purchasing a 12, 13, 13, 13, 14, 14; bumping all 13s to 14s w/ levels, and +2 racial to CHA)?

I personally like the CHA dependent spells of the summoner and would keep it high and sac STR/WIS for it. Likewise I'm of the opinion that 'splat' middle of road Karate Kid philosophy works in D&D and that Summoners are better off not trying to be fighters.

-James


Ravingdork wrote:

I've updated the summoner. You can find his revised character sheet here.

Changes include...
...Fixed charisma-based skills which did not account for Durin's circlet of persuasion.
...Replaced Salamander's throw anything feat with Combat Reflexes.
...Changed Durin's +5 heavy crossbow into a +4 composite longbow to generate funds for a slotless lesser bracers of archery (which greatly enhances his ranged attacks over the previous rendition).
...Replaced Durin's robe of blending with a much cheaper and longer lasting hat of disguise (which was combined with the circlet of persuasion).
...Replaced Durin's ventriloquism spell with expeditious retreat.
...Added goggles of night to Durin, granting him darkvision 60 ft.
...Changed Durin's +5 longspear into a +4 defending longspear, which when combined with Greater Shield Ally and defensive buffs, allows him to tank extremely well when needed.

He still has 634gp left, which is enough for him to craft a minor wondrous item of 1,268gp value or less. I was thinking of getting sovereign glue so as to stick the magic saddle to Salamander (that way it might go with him when he leaves the material plane).

Anyone have any other ideas on how I could best use the rest of the money? I can liquidate some of the wand charges to get more money too if needed, but it has to be worth the cost.

If you're planning on mounted combat, you might consider a shortbow instead, so as to be used from your mount


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
J-Rokka wrote:

If you're planning on mounted combat, you might consider a shortbow instead, so as to be used from your mount

Unless it changed from v3.5, composite longbows are perfectly usable from atop a mount.

james maissen wrote:

Ah gotcha, that does change my view of some of your spell choices (and why you avoided a few of the nicer ones imho).

So is that a 21pt buy then? Or is my math off (figure purchasing a 12, 13, 13, 13, 14, 14; bumping all 13s to 14s w/ levels, and +2 racial to CHA)?

I personally like the CHA dependent spells of the summoner and would keep it high and sac STR/WIS for it. Likewise I'm of the opinion that 'splat' middle of road Karate Kid philosophy works in D&D and that Summoners are better off not trying to be fighters.

-James

All of the characters are 25 point buy. I thought I mentioned that earlier.

I'm curious, which summoner spells do you consider to be the "good ones" that I missed out on?


Ravingdork wrote:


All of the characters are 25 point buy. I thought I mentioned that earlier.

I'm curious, which summoner spells do you consider to be the "good ones" that I missed out on?

You might have, but I count starting scores of 14 14 13 13 13 12 before adding a racial +2 and bumping the 13s to 14s, what did I miss there?

If it's a 25 point buy then I would suggest bumping CHA another 2 points at least (though honestly I would suggest a different point buy entirely).

As to some good summoner spells my favorite each level might be grease, glitterdust, stinking cloud, magic jar, repulsion that are tied to saves (for the most effect).

But here's a quick overall list, those in () you level out of, those in <> are better in devices-

0th level:
Detect Magic Poor man's trap detector, id's magic items
Guidance Awesome +1 that has little competition
Mage Hand Couples well with being unseen (or just lazy)
Mending
Message Awesome spell for coordination
Open/Close Couples well with being unseen
Read Magic Useful

1st level:
Alarm Great information gathering & camping
Enlarge Person Share with Eidolon
Expeditious Retreat ditto (though haste doesn't stack)
Feather Fall immediate action spell, tests will saves as well
Grease awesome spell, what's not to like?
(Mage Armor) until bracers exceed and are worth doing so
<Magic Mouth> permanent sentinel, etc. put in a staff
Mount something for tomorrow, detects traps
Reduce Person share with eidolon, but it keeps its form
Shield ditto
Unseen Servant so useful
Ventriloquism couples well with being unseen

2nd level:
Alter Self share with eidolon.. huge to medium and GAIN +2 str
Barkskin for AC
Blur 20% miss chance & concealment to hide with
(Detect Thoughts) get an item to do it permanently
Glitterdust blinds, reveals invis/hiding for the whole party to see
(invisibility) if you need get a ring
(levitate) if you need get boots
Misdirection awesome spell for tomorrow
Phantom Steed ditto, at 14th+ this spell rocks
Resist Energy Nice when you know what's coming
(See Invisibility) get permanently cast on you
<spider climb> for eidolon to get places, rare use or get staff
<Wind Wall> stops arrows cold, removes cloudkills freq
will determine known or item is best

3rd level:
Charm Monster many thugs can't do a DC 22ish will save
<Dispel Magic> I'd go with a staff here, but YMMV
in PF it only gets 1 thing, but no level cap on check
Displacement must for a tanker unless they have true sight
Fire Shield awesome deterrent + evasion for you
Fly nice when you have PC fighters
<Haste> get items to handle those that need it
Heroism duration and bonuses makes this awesome
Rage it stacks with enhancement bonuses
<Sleet Storm> situational but useful, get a scroll
Stinking Cloud awesome end of the conjuration trio (grease/glitterdust)
<Stoneskin> put in a staff
<tongues> situational but very helpful, staff
Wall of fire blocks line of sight but not effect
(water breathing) get a pearl of sirines (or 2)

4th level:
(black tentacles) seems to loose power with level of foes
<dismissal> its improved in pathfinder, side spell in staff
Dimension door combat movement to move full attackers
greater invisibility nice for your rogue friend
magic jar awesome spell
overland flight you and your eidolon will appreciate it

5th level:
baleful polymorph Fort or go away spell, nonlethal
cloudkill Obscures & damages, not as nice w/o poison immune
greater heroism duration sucks, but rest rocks
(planar binding) til greater comes along, high CHA makes this easy
<plane shift> get item for when you need/want it
(polymorph) better to be had on wizard list
<prying eyes> item if it suits the party, likely not though
repulsion very nice antithug spell, couples well when unseen
teleport general purpose travel
<true seeing> put in staff

YMMV,

James


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

CHARACTER UPDATES
(The old links have been disabled.)

I have corrected several minor errors amidst the character sheets (particularly with the ability scores) as well as included a bit more optimization. In addition, a few new character possibilities have been added to the roster:

Akoran (Human lich necromancer)
- Repentant lich and maker of simulucra/undead armies
Angol Ceredir (Elven high archmage)
- Master abjurer, alchemist, artificer, linguist, and spell sage
Deacon Rann (Human sharpshooter)
- Balor-slaying archer
Durin Wrang (Human Eidolon rider)
- Master of walls and rider of the mighty eidolon, Salamander
Helegûr (Aasimar ice witch)
- Vile power mad witch queen with a heart and fist of ice
Shioji Petilom (Halfling paladin sorcerer)
- The Sorcerer of Luck who laughs in the face of danger
Yiankun Lee (Halfling earth sorcerer)
- Master of stone and earth whose petrification powers make medusa seethe in envy

Furthermore, I have decided to post the character sheets for the other possible characters in the party. That way you can better help me complement the party with my character selection.

Gilgeam Grayhem (Human mage-killer)
- Powerful arcanist and diviner experienced in ending encounters quickly and decisively
Grunk (Goblin assassin)*
- Master of shadows and of remaining unseen
Kharzod (Dwarven Vault Honor Guard)*
- Dwarven defender with the strength of a god behind him
She'er Falen (Half-Elf Fire Genasi)
- Helegûr's rival and a supremely powerful evoker with a love of fire

* Either Grunk or Kharzod will be in the party, not both. The player remains as undecided on his character choice as I (perhaps you could help him pick one). The selection (along with my own) may well determine the overall alignment of the party as well.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Shioji's hit points are off. They should read 121. I forgot to add in his constitution modifier.

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