Fighter / Magic-User Base Class


Homebrew and House Rules

Liberty's Edge

Here is the class in text format. I still do not have a name for it.

This is basically the bard with a minor saving throw change and every ability removed and started from scratch. It will use the bards spells know and spells per day table and be a charisma based caster. It will have a unique spell list eventually.

Formatting may be terrible. I created it in a spreadsheet format.

I welcome any comments or suggestions or even scathing insults!

Hit Dice : D8
Skill Ranks: 4+ Int Modifier

Class Skills:
The <class name>'s class skills are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge(Arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str), Use Magic Device (Cha).

lvl fort ref will abilities

1st +2 +0 +2 Blade-Caster, Armored Caster (5%), Combat Training
2nd +3 +0 +3 Battle Focus (+1)
3rd +3 +1 +3 Arcane Shield (+1)
4th +4 +1 +4 Augmented Strike (+1), Battle Focus (+2)
5th +4 +1 +4 Armored Caster (10%), Combat Training
6th +5 +2 +5 Arcane Shield (+2), Battle Focus (+3)
7th +5 +2 +5
8th +6 +2 +6 Augmented Strike (+2), Battle Focus (+4)
9th +6 +3 +6 Arcane Shield (+3)
10th +7 +3 +7 Armored Caster (15%), Combat Training, Battle Focus (+5)
11th +7 +3 +7
12th +8 +4 +8 Arcane Shield (+4), Augmented Strike (+3), Battle Focus (+6)
13th +8 +4 +8
14th +9 +4 +9 Battle Focus (+7)
15th +9 +5 +9 Arcane Shield (+5), Armored Caster 20%, Combat Training
16th +10 +5 +10 Augmented Strike (+4), Battle Focus (+8)
17th +10 +5 +10
18th +11 +6 +11 Arcane Shield (+6), Battle Focus (+9)
19th +11 +6 +11
20th +12 +6 +12 Armored Caster 25%, Augmented Strike (+5), Combat Training, Charged Blade, Battle Focus (+10)

Armor and Weapons Proficiency:
a <class name> is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields)

Spells: (spells per day and spells know same as bard)
A <class name> casts arcane spells drawn from the <class name> spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a <class name> must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a <class name>'s spell is 10 + the spell level + the <class name>'s Charisma modifier.

Like other spell-casters, a <class name> can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Spells Known. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells)

The <class name>'s selection of spells is limited. A <class name> begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of the <class name>'s choice. At each new <class name> level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: <class name> Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a <class name> knows is not affected by his Charisma score. The numbers on Table: <class name> Spells Known are fixed)

Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third <class name> level after that (8th, 11th, and so on), a <class name> can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the <class name> “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell's level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least one level lower than the highest-level <class name> spell the <class name> can cast. A <class name> may swap only a single spell at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level

CLASS ABILITIES:

Blade-Caster: The <class name> may use the wielded weapon to perform any somatic components for casting spells.

Armored Caster: The <class name> subtracts 5% from A.S.F. at 1st level and another 5% at 5,10,15 and 20. This ability stacks with Arcane Armor Training and Arcane Armor Mastery.

Combat Training: The <class name> selects a bonus fighter feat at 1st, 5th,10th,15th and 20th.

Battle Focus: The <class name> adds half his level to concentration checks.

Arcane Shield: The <class name>'s shield is augmented with a deflection bonus of +1 at 3rd level. This bonus increases by +1 every 3 levels.

Augmented Strike: The <class name> may imbue his weapon with a special ability from Weapon Special Ability Table. This modifier is +1 at 4th level and +1 every 4 level after that. (+5 at level 20). This may be done a number of rounds equal to the <class name>'s level.

Charged Blade: As a full round action, the <class name> may make a single melee attack at his highest bonus and cast a targeted spell as a single action. This action does not provoke an attack of opportunity.


Ummm....

2 things.

1) Try
Google Documents
This allows you to update it on the fly, unlike these message boards.

2) Whats its base attack?

Liberty's Edge

Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

Ummm....

2 things.

1) Try
Google Documents
This allows you to update it on the fly, unlike these message boards.

2) Whats its base attack?

3/4 BAB. same as Bard

Class Link


Shar Tahl wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

Ummm....

2 things.

1) Try
Google Documents
This allows you to update it on the fly, unlike these message boards.

2) Whats its base attack?

3/4 BAB. same as Bard

Class Link

1) You really should include BAB in the link somewhere or in the chart.

2) I am not really interested in anything like this that isn't full BAB. 3/4 BAB has been and is done already. The new bard variant coming out is good enough for me.

Shadow Lodge

Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

1) You really should include BAB in the link somewhere or in the chart.

2) I am not really interested in anything like this that isn't full BAB. 3/4 BAB has been and is done already. The new bard variant coming out is good enough for me.

A class with bard spellcasting progression will never have full BAB. Fans of the fighter/magic-user really need to understand that for balance reasons the absolute best you'll ever obtain with this kind of progression is 3/4 BAB. For balance purposes, such a concept would never fly because it lessens the appeal of all of the classes toes it steps on which at this point would include fighters, barbarians, rangers, paladins, bards, inquisitors, and alchemists.

Now a fighter/magic-user with ranger/paladin spellcasting progression and full BAB? That I could understand and it's the one area I still feel exists a major hole in classes.


MisterSlanky wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

1) You really should include BAB in the link somewhere or in the chart.

2) I am not really interested in anything like this that isn't full BAB. 3/4 BAB has been and is done already. The new bard variant coming out is good enough for me.

A class with bard spellcasting progression will never have full BAB. Fans of the fighter/magic-user really need to understand that for balance reasons the absolute best you'll ever obtain with this kind of progression is 3/4 BAB. For balance purposes, such a concept would never fly because it lessens the appeal of all of the classes toes it steps on which at this point would include fighters, barbarians, rangers, paladins, bards, inquisitors, and alchemists.

Now a fighter/magic-user with ranger/paladin spellcasting progression and full BAB? That I could understand and it's the one area I still feel exists a major hole in classes.

Don't really care if it has bard spell progression or not. Not mocking the write up. Just not what I was looking for.

The Duskblade was a very well built class, which was equally balanced.

Shadow Lodge

Shar Tahl wrote:

3/4 BAB. same as Bard

Class Link

Not a big fan. The class makes Bards almost completely redundant and a lot less appealing.

Things I don't like:

1) Medium armor proficiency. This almost automatically throws it over the edge for me. You have a class that functions very similarly to a bard yet is a lot more capable simply because he has armor AND the use of his somatic weaponry class skill. One of the two has to go, and it feels like it should be the armor.

2) Armored Caster. Making this stack with arcane armor training is difficult because the feat requires the use of a swift action. If you don't have the feat does the swift action not count? If you do have the feat but are wearing an armor with a 20% failure, do the first 10% not count if you're level 10? The class ability seems muddled at best.

3) Arcane Shield. Not a fan of this class ability. It seems to pigeonhole the class into a sword and board style. Frankly I'm not sure I'd want to replace it with anything similar either. Arcane Shield also progresses much too quickly.

4) Battle focus is FAR too powerful. Concentration was changed for a reason, this ability makes concentration checks trivial, which they never should be. It might be a lot less offensive if it capped at a lower number and progressed much slower.

5) Augmented Strike duplicates a feat. Provide the feat as a bonus feat if you think it's that important; don't reinvent feats.

6) Charged Blade is about the only ability I really like, and it really doesn't feel like a capstone, it feels like a power the character should be building on their entire career (the real defining class power). It should (starting at about level 3) allow the weapon to function as a spell-storing level and allow a certain number of spell levels be stored based on the character's class level. That would make for a better use of a lot of the touch spells by the class (which would help fit the feel of an evoker/fighter style).

Really though, nice attempt, but not a fan.


MisterSlanky wrote:
Shar Tahl wrote:

3/4 BAB. same as Bard

Class Link

Not a big fan. The class makes Bards almost completely redundant and a lot less appealing.

The bard is a utilities expert. Able to do a little of everything. This does not, in any way, do this. While the bard can heal, skills, cast, and melee. This only covers, sort of, 2 of these aspects.


The biggest problem where is that we don't know the spells this class is going to have. That is a HUGE balancing factor.

MisterSlanky wrote:


1) Medium armor proficiency. This almost automatically throws it over the edge for me. You have a class that functions very similarly to a bard yet is a lot more capable simply because he has armor AND the use of his somatic weaponry class skill. One of the two has to go, and it feels like it should be the armor.

Prejudiced comment here. Depends on the spells it gets. Until we know exactly what spells this class gets, this is more of a flavor comment. In other words I disagree with this accusation.

MisterSlanky wrote:
2) Armored Caster. Making this stack with arcane armor training is difficult because the feat requires the use of a swift action. If you don't have the feat does the swift action not count? If you do have the feat but are wearing an armor with a 20% failure, do the first 10% not count if you're level 10? The class ability seems muddled at best.

This class ability is rather self explanatory to me. I fail to see your problem.

MisterSlanky wrote:


3) Arcane Shield. Not a fan of this class ability. It seems to pigeonhole the class into a sword and board style. Frankly I'm not sure I'd want to replace it with anything similar either. Arcane Shield also progresses much too quickly.

I think the class ability is a nice one, as there is no real addressing any use of shields with casting. I do think an alternate combat feat option would be nice if the PC doesn't plan on using a shield. This trait alone would be more for a PrC with a specialized fighting style planed. In other words I sort of agree with MisterSlanky.

MisterSlanky wrote:


4) Battle focus is FAR too powerful. Concentration was changed for a reason, this ability makes concentration checks trivial, which they never should be. It might be a lot less offensive if it capped at a lower number and progressed much slower.

Hardly, this is a specially focused combat caster class. It only makes sense that it would get a special bonus above combat caster. However this probably gets too powerful if you throw in combat caster feat on top of this. I would give them the combat caster feat at level 2 or 4, and then start with this progression at level 6.

MisterSlanky wrote:


5) Augmented Strike duplicates a feat. Provide the feat as a bonus feat if you think it's that important; don't reinvent feats.

What feat are you talking about? The action type to activate though would be nice. Free is fine though. Even if this is like a feat, beefier versions of that feat as class abilities is a norm.

However you should get arcane strike feat before you get this class ability.

MisterSlanky wrote:


6) Charged Blade is about the only ability I really like, and it really doesn't feel like a capstone, it feels like a power the character should be building on their entire career (the real defining class power). It should (starting at about level 3) allow the weapon to function as a spell-storing level and allow a certain number of spell levels be stored based on the character's class level. That would make for a better use of a lot of the touch...

Yeah I agree.

Liberty's Edge

Thought I had the BAB in there. I didn't see giving it full BAB ass appropriate, because then it would make other full BAB classes less desirable. No classed should have absolute balance or you end up with how I see 4th ed, a bunch of classes that function the same way but with different flavor.

I will retool after looking through these suggestions. I honestly did not spend a whole lot of time writing it up. All that is the first things that came to me while I was at work making it. The capstone was a last minute thing.

All good suggestions! I know this concept is be done heavily for several months. I am just trying to create something that would be a fun concept. I will definitely have to change the shield power to address those that don't use shields and how to handle ranged with the abilities.

Liberty's Edge

MisterSlanky wrote:

5) Augmented Strike duplicates a feat. Provide the feat as a bonus feat if you think it's that important; don't reinvent feats.

What feat did this duplicate? I was more basing it on the soulknife ability Mind Blade Enhancement

Liberty's Edge

Shar Tahl wrote:
MisterSlanky wrote:

5) Augmented Strike duplicates a feat. Provide the feat as a bonus feat if you think it's that important; don't reinvent feats.

What feat did this duplicate? I was more basing it on the soulknife ability Mind Blade Enhancement

like this but not psionic:

Weapon Special Ability Enhancement Bonus Value
Defending +1
Keen +1
Lucky* +1
Mighty cleaving +1
Psychokinetic* +1
Sundering* +1
Vicious +1
Collision* +2
Mindcrusher* +2
Psychokinetic burst* +2
Suppression* +2
Wounding +2
Bodyfeeder* +3
Mindfeeder* +3
Soulbreaker* +3


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
MisterSlanky wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

1) You really should include BAB in the link somewhere or in the chart.

2) I am not really interested in anything like this that isn't full BAB. 3/4 BAB has been and is done already. The new bard variant coming out is good enough for me.

A class with bard spellcasting progression will never have full BAB. Fans of the fighter/magic-user really need to understand that for balance reasons the absolute best you'll ever obtain with this kind of progression is 3/4 BAB. For balance purposes, such a concept would never fly because it lessens the appeal of all of the classes toes it steps on which at this point would include fighters, barbarians, rangers, paladins, bards, inquisitors, and alchemists.

Now a fighter/magic-user with ranger/paladin spellcasting progression and full BAB? That I could understand and it's the one area I still feel exists a major hole in classes.

Don't really care if it has bard spell progression or not. Not mocking the write up. Just not what I was looking for.

The Duskblade was a very well built class, which was equally balanced.

I dont think the duskblade was balanced to be honest, i think if you want full BAB, you need to take the paladin/ranger spell progression like the homebrew iron mage thats been floating around on here.

To the OP, we really need the spell list to accurately evaluate the class, what spells a caster does or doesnt have makes a huge difference. It's just that simple.


Kolokotroni wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
MisterSlanky wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

1) You really should include BAB in the link somewhere or in the chart.

2) I am not really interested in anything like this that isn't full BAB. 3/4 BAB has been and is done already. The new bard variant coming out is good enough for me.

A class with bard spellcasting progression will never have full BAB. Fans of the fighter/magic-user really need to understand that for balance reasons the absolute best you'll ever obtain with this kind of progression is 3/4 BAB. For balance purposes, such a concept would never fly because it lessens the appeal of all of the classes toes it steps on which at this point would include fighters, barbarians, rangers, paladins, bards, inquisitors, and alchemists.

Now a fighter/magic-user with ranger/paladin spellcasting progression and full BAB? That I could understand and it's the one area I still feel exists a major hole in classes.

Don't really care if it has bard spell progression or not. Not mocking the write up. Just not what I was looking for.

The Duskblade was a very well built class, which was equally balanced.

I dont think the duskblade was balanced to be honest, i think if you want full BAB, you need to take the paladin/ranger spell progression like the homebrew iron mage thats been floating around on here.

To the OP, we really need the spell list to accurately evaluate the class, what spells a caster does or doesnt have makes a huge difference. It's just that simple.

That Full BAB and casting like a paladin is a myth. There is 0 (ZERO) ways to prove it. It all breaks down to spell selection. This irrational reaction of hearing the word spells and full base attack with no fact backing it tells me this is a knee jerk reaction.

Again, we need a list of spells to properly judge this class.

Liberty's Edge

Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:


2) I am not really interested in anything like this that isn't full BAB. 3/4 BAB has been and is done already. The new bard variant coming out is good enough for me.

Bard variant? Coming out? Granted, I don't pay the closest attention but this is the first I've heard of this. I assume it's going to be in the APG but what are the specifics? Would you be so kind as to illuminate for me?


Orannis wrote:


Bard variant?

not sure if it counts as a variant, but there has been things said by James Jacobs I believe that indicated the APG will have new spells and perhaps other things to allow the bard to be more martial and fill the "gish" role

Liberty's Edge

MerrikCale wrote:
Orannis wrote:


Bard variant?

not sure if it counts as a variant, but there has been things said by James Jacobs I believe that indicated the APG will have new spells and perhaps other things to allow the bard to be more martial and fill the "gish" role

With any luck, there also will hopefully be a new Pathfinder fighter/magic user base class in an upcoming issue of Kobold Quarterly ...

Just saying ... ;)

Liberty's Edge

I was thinking of just having the class have access to the wizard/sorcerer spell list. They will already have a limitation due to having a set number of spells known


That sounds like a really, bad ideal

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Ditto. If it were the warmage spell list, probably no problem. The entire wizard spell list? Why should I play a d6/Half BAB wizard again?

Shadow Lodge

The addition of a full wizard/sorcerer spell list pretty much cements my opinions on this class. Doing so would make classes like bards, alchemists, summoners, and even wizards/sorcerers a lot less appealing.

If a player walked up to the table I DM with this class I would assume it was a joke class. That's not meant to be mean, that's meant to be an honest overall assessment of the class abilities.


MisterSlanky wrote:

The addition of a full wizard/sorcerer spell list pretty much cements my opinions on this class. Doing so would make classes like bards, alchemists, summoners, and even wizards/sorcerers a lot less appealing.

If a player walked up to the table I DM with this class I would assume it was a joke class. That's not meant to be mean, that's meant to be an honest overall assessment of the class abilities.

I dont think a full spell list would be appropriate, however I disagree about the summoner and the sorceror/wizard. You dont play a summoner for it's spells you play it to control a badass monster. The spells are gravy. The same goes for a wizard/sorc. People who want to play full casters will. Just because they get full access to a 6 levels of a spell list doesnt mean they are better then a wizard. Just think, a sorceror gets full access to 9 levels of the list, but people still play wizards.

The alchemist I honestly dont care, the class already has little to no appeal to me. And as for the bard, I think if someone is playing a bard to be a fighter mage (as it stands now) they deserve what they get. You play a bard for the social skills and it's buffs. People who like bards now would still play them for that reason.

Liberty's Edge

This is not a whole-hearted attempt at creating a 100% ready class. I was trying to just build a base concept for input. It was just a quick throw together that was sort of a more warmage like bard template.

not offended by the joke class thing...It is just a very incomplete class that I most likely won't do anything else with. Just taking a stab at making something that makes the fighter/mage people at least indifferent ; ) I have failed! lol


With these abilities the first list that comes to mind is a bard spell list, with all the healing cut out, and maybe a few new ones put in.


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
With these abilities the first list that comes to mind is a bard spell list, with all the healing cut out, and maybe a few new ones put in.

Why would the class want all those illusion and enchantment spells? I think more focus on transmutation, abjuration, necromancy and evocation spells would make more sense.


Kolokotroni wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
With these abilities the first list that comes to mind is a bard spell list, with all the healing cut out, and maybe a few new ones put in.
Why would the class want all those illusion and enchantment spells? I think more focus on transmutation, abjuration, necromancy and evocation spells would make more sense.

True, that was just the fist thing that came to my mind.


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
With these abilities the first list that comes to mind is a bard spell list, with all the healing cut out, and maybe a few new ones put in.
Why would the class want all those illusion and enchantment spells? I think more focus on transmutation, abjuration, necromancy and evocation spells would make more sense.
True, that was just the fist thing that came to my mind.

I think its because there has never been an 'official' spell list of this sort created.

I like the list that super genious games put together for the archon. Thats a strong example of what this kind of a list would look like for me.


3/4 BAB is fine. The best fighter/magic-user build in 3.5 used it ... I refer to the psychic warrior. Psionics may not be everybody's cup of tea, but even those that don't like them have to concede that it was one of the most balanced classes in 3.5. If you haven't looked at it, Shar Tahl, I recommend you do.


The psychic warrior was 3/4 th BAB, bard casting and pretty much fighter feats in place of anything else. The "spell" list wasn't bad. All in all not a bad class.

The power list is a good place to start and just replace em with spells of simler type.

All in all folks still wont like it as it's just a fighter with less BAB and some casting...no one ever seems happy with that

On another note spellblade from the very meh tome of secrets is not to bad, but they utterly fail on the spell list


Yes, but it was the powers and the full casting levels that made it click. They didn't have a huge number of them but they synergised with the concept of 'boost yourself with magic and beat the stuffing out of the other guy'.


I t wasn't full caster it was limited to 6 and pretty much the same as a bard, but the powers list was very useful...but many around here do not want to have to make the call between casting a spell or attacking in a given round but seem to want to do both.

go fig

Sczarni

The thing with the psychic warrior is that at lower levels he could boost and then go to town. However as he leveled up and his manifester level increased the augmentations of the basic low level powers made manifesting as swift actions possible (basically qucken).

So on mid to high levels you could choose between manifesting a big power as a standart or a lower level one as a swift.

The prblem with the fighter/mage is that there are no spells that can be cast as a swift action, while the psychic warrior had very utilitary ones like hustle (move as a swift), psionic lions charge, claws of the beast.

This makes me think that a good mechanic for a fighter/mage type would be not only giving it a specialized spell list, but after a certain level allow for quickening a given level of spells, and let that allowed level to increase as the class progresses.

Just my 2cp thou.


Exactly, Frerezar - he needs the spells. The Spell Compendium had some decent ones that could really make the concept work. Swift action spells are great because you can cast them in combat, but relevant spells are important too.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:

The psychic warrior was 3/4 th BAB, bard casting and pretty much fighter feats in place of anything else. The "spell" list wasn't bad. All in all not a bad class.

The power list is a good place to start and just replace em with spells of simler type.

All in all folks still wont like it as it's just a fighter with less BAB and some casting...no one ever seems happy with that

On another note spellblade from the very meh tome of secrets is not to bad, but they utterly fail on the spell list

The spellblade was a good try but it wasnt just the spell list that made it fall flat. The fact that the principal bonus the class gives is incompatable with standard equipment for any character expecting to get into combat (magic weapons). That to me was a bigger problem then the spell list.

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