Overcoming DR


Rules Questions

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Quote:
Weapons with an enhancement bonus of +3 or greater can ignore some types of damage reduction, regardless of their actual material or alignment.

The language of this section implies that only the true enhancement bonus can help you overcome the DR. However the title of the table it refers you to mentions Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalents. ie. a +1 flaming vorpal longsword can overcome any DR.

Is this an error with the table name or can the WEBE actually help overcome DR?


They cannot - "equivalent" bonuses are not enhancement bonuses, they are equivalent for price (and total + limit) only.

The ability to overcome some DR's as added almost exclusively to even the balance between actual enhancements and other bonuses.


Majuba wrote:

They cannot - "equivalent" bonuses are not enhancement bonuses, they are equivalent for price (and total + limit) only.

The ability to overcome some DR's as added almost exclusively to even the balance between actual enhancements and other bonuses.

The point the OP is bringing up is that the table and the text do not match. I agree with you though, the text is correct and only the actual enhancement bonus, not equivalents, should count.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Majuba wrote:

They cannot - "equivalent" bonuses are not enhancement bonuses, they are equivalent for price (and total + limit) only.

The ability to overcome some DR's as added almost exclusively to even the balance between actual enhancements and other bonuses.

And yet the table shows Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalents.

According to the table a +3 WEBE can overcome cold iron/silver, a +4 WEBE out does adamantine, and +5 WEBE for alignments.

Hence the confusion. I'm curious if it is meant to be just the normal enhancements like you said or if it's really meant to be the WEBE.

This topic got buried in the Bane threat so I figured we'd make a new one for it.


I'm pretty sure the intent is actual enhancement bonus. I like that because it gives players a reason to go for enhancement bonuses, and they don't have to carry a bag full of different-metal weapons around.

In 3.5, most players cared little for enhancement bonuses, and preferred shock, frost, flaming, keen, bane, speed, etc. on their adamantine, cold iron, silvered, etc., weapons. That got a little goofy, IMHO.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Only the ACTUAL enhancement bonus counts. A +1 vorpal dancing sword wouldn't be able to get through any DR but magic.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

James Jacobs wrote:
Only the ACTUAL enhancement bonus counts. A +1 vorpal dancing sword wouldn't be able to get through any DR but magic.

Thanks for the clarification! That makes DR in high level encounters much more relevant.

Shadow Lodge

Scipion del Ferro wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Only the ACTUAL enhancement bonus counts. A +1 vorpal dancing sword wouldn't be able to get through any DR but magic.
Thanks for the clarification! That makes DR in high level encounters much more relevant.

And adds another item to the errata list :) Thank you for the official clarification. Originally I had just glanced at the table, and not read the text, so it was confusing.

Silver Crusade

I don't see that this has ever been errata'd. I'm assuming that the book is actually incorrect; you need an explicit enhancement bonus (for instance +3 to overcome silver/cold iron DR) and not equivalent bonuses?


The best way to read it is as "A +3 Weapon Enhancement Bonus is Equivalent to Cold iron/silver for DR penetration".


Prethen, the entire problem is people were reading a short phrase from a table out of context. Whenever people do this it creates problems.

CRB p562 wrote:
Weapons with an enhancement bonus of +3 or greater can ignore some types of damage reduction, regardless of their actual material or alignment. The following table shows what type of enhancement bonus is needed to overcome some common types of damage reduction.

Then the table tells you what enhancement bonuses are equivalent to. +3 is equivalent to Cold Iron.

There is NO mention of special ability bonus equivalents.
Note: special ability bonus equivalents are not called enhancement bonus equivalents anywhere in the CRB. That is a shorthand people use.

Summary: People are misnaming and conflating two "equivalents" that are unrelated.


A +1 human Bane weapon adds +2 to the enhancement when used against humans. It then counts as a +3 weapon and will bypass some DR. That is what the table refers to. I think there are some rage powers and other enchantments that also can bump the effective enhancement of the weapon when the right conditions apply.

/cevah

Silver Crusade

Thanks for the clarification.

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