Fiendish / Half-fiend Dragon


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm working on building up my ultimate bad guy who is a dragon that has been in hiding for over 400 years because he had the forces of good gang up on him. Long story short, they thought they brought his reign of terror to an end, however they were wrong as it will turn out.

Now I'm needing this dragon(aiming for wyrm or great wyrm stage) to be a little/extra powerful than a normal dragon of his current state. I have looked at both the fiendish and half-fiend template, neither one really seems to add anything that would make him any more dangerous than a standard dragon. Am I missing something that would make either one of those templates better for the dragon or should I look elsewhere as I really like the idea of some sort of fiendish connection to his powers.

Thanks in advance.


the half fiend template doesn't add anything?

I would think that the extra spell-like abilities in and of themselves would be enough...

the dragon would get Blasphemy for heavens sake... with a caster level equal to its HD (although this is not quite as powerful as normal 3.5, because pathfinder blasphemy allows a save to reduce its effects, but it is still pretty rough).

Liberty's Edge

Damian Wells wrote:


Now I'm needing this dragon(aiming for wyrm or great wyrm stage) to be a little/extra powerful than a normal dragon of his current state.

Thanks in advance.

What about the lich template? I'm not sure how good or bad it would be but I'd love to see someone apply the lich template to a dragon just so I can check it out.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

A +4 to Dex from the Half-Fiend template isn't a boon for a dragon? +2 Initiative, Reflex saves, and AC isn't beneficial? Plus a +4 to Con? 2 extra hp per hit die? Half-fiend dragons are nasty. Having run the old 3e proto-adventure path cap Bastion of Broken Souls, let me tell you, a half-fiend great red wyrm like Ashardalon is a NIGHTMARE for PCs, even at low-Epic levels, and even with PCs designed to maul dragons left and right. Book of Exalted Deeds' most broken feats and PrCs pale in the face of a properly DM'd half-fiend great red wyrm.


There's a dragon magazine template for dragons, called "Nameless", for paranoid dragons than went into complete hiding, destroying every reference to itself, and that would fit your character nicely... but it makes it weaker than a normal dragon.


Yeah. A half-fiend dragon is brutal to everyone but the paladin, who just demolishes said baddie.


Check out the Draconomicon for 3.0/3.5, it gives a Dragon plenty of options such as Metabreath Feats, Dragon Specific Magic Items and Prestige Classes (such as Disciple Of Ashardalon and more) unique to Dragons and those who serve them.

A Blue Dragon with a Shape Breath [Metabreath] feat can suddenly turn his 60ft line of electricity into a 30ft wide cone, or a Maximise Breath Weapon [Metabreath] feat means the breath weapon rolls maximum on every single damage dice rolled (at the expense of adding a large addition to the number of rounds they'd have to wait to use the breath weapon again)

And spells like 'Scintillating Scales' means the Dragons Natural Armor Bonus turns instead into a Deflection Bonus of equal value - handy when Dragons want to avoid pesky touch attacks and incorporeal enemies.

Of course, players wont like these feats much as the Dragon can turn into a horrible nightmare (Large & In Charge Feat anyone?, that means on an attack of opportunity a successfully hit foe is sent flying depending on the damage done which can effectively end that players turn as they try to recover) but then again, victory over something that is this nasty is always the stuff talked about.


You may also want to consider the Advanced Template from beastiary, or simply adding some additional HD as it has gone beyond the stage of a great wyrm.

Scarab Sages

I just this weekend statted up two Great Wyrm++ background NPCs for my game (finally got to the point where I needed to know and set limits on just how badass these Big Guys were).

I assure you, good sir, that stacking Advanced + Half-Fiend is a plenty good boost -- the +4 CR from that combo is appropriate to be sure.

Advanced boosts every stat. Adding +4 to STR and CON means all your attacks now do 1-3 points more (depending on the attack form), and you have oodles of them; you also just gained 50+ more hit points.

Half-Fiend is the big win (and is much better than "Fiendish", by the way).

The stat boosts are a pretty big bonus, multiple DR types don't hurt ("Oh, your weapon is magic, but is it also good? No? Oh, OK, so my DR 10/good still applies, awesome"), resistances against most types of energy, and what the heck -- a "smite good" option too!

Just be sure to KO the paladin right away... your enormous Perception skill check will let you assess who that is right away. Don't bother smiting him, just whip out your highest level spell that tangles him up or keeps him at range (Reverse Gravity might be fun!). The save DCs should be insane against it, since you made sure to make your CHA one of the stats you boosted with a +4 from Half-Fiend (this also boosted saves versus your spell-like abilities, and your Frightful Presence).

Tailor the feats a bit, and make his spell selection a smart one where everything syncs up nicely. Make everything super-optimized, and feel free to use some privileged knowledge -- that helps reflect the superhuman INT and WIS he will have.


Michael Suzio wrote:


I assure you, good sir, that stacking Advanced + Half-Fiend is a plenty good boost -- the +4 CR from that combo is appropriate to be sure.

I find Advanced at only +1 is a better deal than advanced half fiend for +4, though for story line the fiend can be more flavorful.

Now depending on template stacking (and I am not sure if there is an official rule) take advanced 4x for +4 as compared to advanced half fiend which is also +4. That will however make a VERY deadly dragon and gets rid of one of the weaknesses most dragons have being a low dex.

4 levels of advanced template will give it +16 on all stats, and +8 natural armor. That effectively raises the creatures ac by 16 and gives it 8 additional hp per HD.

Applied to an Anient balck dragon it woudl raise it from CR 16 to CR 20. Give it 16 ac, +8 on all saves, +8 hit on all attacks, +8 damage on primary attacks, +4 on secondary, and add 176 HP to it.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Princess Of Canada wrote:


Check out the Draconomicon for 3.0/3.5, it gives a Dragon plenty of options such as Metabreath Feats, Dragon Specific Magic Items and Prestige Classes (such as Disciple Of Ashardalon and more) unique to Dragons and those who serve them.

A Blue Dragon with a Shape Breath [Metabreath] feat can suddenly turn his 60ft line of electricity into a 30ft wide cone, or a Maximise Breath Weapon [Metabreath] feat means the breath weapon rolls maximum on every single damage dice rolled (at the expense of adding a large addition to the number of rounds they'd have to wait to use the breath weapon again)

Along these lines there is a wonderful feat for dragons Recover Breath. It reduces the time to recover their breath weapon by 1 each time they take the feat.

Take it 3 times and they recover their breath in 1d4-3 rounds.

No reprieve from the breath weapon for the PCs, just keep doing strafing run, they cannot keep up with its fly speed.

Or another tactic, a scroll of anti-magic is mean on a dragon. Turns off all the PCs goodies, now they are nothing compared to the dragon who swoops by snatches a PC and flies away chewing on it as the party tries to blast it at range with spell that seem to no penetrate its spell resistance. hehehe

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