Review of Deadly Toxins: Poisons by Tangent Games

[Neuroglyph]

Here's a Review of the new supplement by Tangent Games, Deadly Toxins: Poisons. While it shows an abundance of research about "real world" poisons, it demonstrates that the real world does not always translate well into a fantasy world. Take the link below to read the complete review:

Review of Deadly Toxins: Poisons by Tangent Games

[Kurocyn]

While I understand why save or die effects are so rare in 4th ED, I do not agree with the above listed review. I miss them, in fact.

Personally, I don't believe that anybody should be able to shrug off harmful effects as easily as they can in 4th ED. The poisons and effects detailed in Deadly Toxins are just what 4th ED needs. PCs should have more to worry about than a meager save ends "flip of the coin."

Poisons are lethal. Period. I've had worse cases of food poisoning than what I've seen PCs deal with while under the effects of 4th ED's so called "poisons."

While it may be anti-climactic for a mighty hero to fall to a lv 1 commoner who managed to spike his ale, it is painfully realistic and adds a much needed level of depth to fantasy.

Back when I started playing 4th ED, I didn't like the child friendly approach used for negative ongoing effects and experimented with variant poison effects. My final version equating to a single saving throw when the poison is first encountered, then a set number of HP drained away over a set number of rounds. Once the poison's duration was over, the victim stopped losing HP. More potent poisons would last longer, drain more HP each round, or both, depending.

-Kurocyn

[Matthew Koelbl]

Kurocyn wrote:

While I understand why save or die effects are so rare in 4th ED, I do not agree with the above listed review. I miss them, in fact.

Personally, I don't believe that anybody should be able to shrug off harmful effects as easily as they can in 4th ED. The poisons and effects detailed in Deadly Toxins are just what 4th ED needs. PCs should have more to worry about than a meager save ends "flip of the coin."

Poisons are lethal. Period.

Sure, but so are swords. And fireballs. And all sorts of other things that characters shrug off. Now, it is definitely an individual preference as to whether you prefer a game that is more or less lethal, or how much you enjoy "Save or Die" effects. But the review is spot on in that the default for 4E has moved away from such things, and so adding it in so haphazardly is dangerous.

I don't think there would be any problem grabbing these for a more lethal game, presumably one where you have also ramped up the lethality in other ways. And the review says just that!

Anyway, I definitely understand where you are coming from, though I'll say that 4E avoiding "Save or Die" isn't about making the game "child-friendly", it is about making it fun for the many, many players who didn't enjoy combat being decided by who won initiative. It is perfectly fine to not be one of them, and enjoying a combat that keeps you much more on the edge - but there are legitimate reasons for the rest of us to have shied away from that style of play, and it isn't because we are playing a less mature game.

[Pop'N'Fresh]

I've been looking for a book like this for my Savage Worlds version of Conan! Neato!

I'm more interested in the poisons themselves than the actual game mechanics though.