Can profane gift (from succubus) be detected? (also: Construct zombies?)


Rules Questions


PRD wrote:
Profane Gift (Su) Once per day as a full-round action, a succubus may grant a profane gift to a willing humanoid creature by touching it for 1 full round. The target gains a +2 profane bonus to an ability score of his choice. A single creature may have no more than one profane gift from a succubus at a time. As long as the profane gift persists, the succubus can communicate telepathically with the target across any distance (and may use her suggestion spell-like ability through it). A profane gift is removed by dispel evil or dispel chaos. The succubus can remove it as well as a free action (causing 2d6 Charisma drain to the victim, no save).

So, is it possible to detect that someone has been granted that effect? Does that show up in detect magic? Does the character register as evil in detect evil because of that? Does the character himself realize that he is under such effect? He probably feels the ability increase but what about that telepathy thing? Is he aware of that before the succubus first contacts him? When that happens, does he realize she can do so because of the profane gift?

Also, when character is aware of the effect, is the communication 100% equal? Can the character at any time choose to contact the succubus or does he always need to wait for the succubus to contact him before he can answer?

EDIT: Actually, now that I have a thread going...

PRD wrote:
“Zombie” is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal creature (other than an undead), referred to hereafter as the base creature.

It doesn't specify living creatures there. It doesn't even specify skeletal system like 3.5 srd. So construct zombies? Ooze zombies?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My general rule is that taking a gift from an infernal, willingly or not does mark you with an aura of evil. It would show up in both detect magic and detect evil.


Ooze zombies have an additional requirement: Find a GM who lets you pull off that one.

Remember that the game has no fixed set of rules or laws a cunning lawyer can circumvent. The rules are supervised by an AI (which means, in this case, Actual Intelligence).

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

"EEEEK! It's an oozombie."

"What will we do?"

"Um, well, it moves even slower than an ooze, which is saying something. So, I recommend walking away."

I just spent a minute applying the zombie template to ochre jelly. It's the monster that kobolds taunt. But at least it's Cha shot up from 1 to 10.


Chris Mortika wrote:

"EEEEK! It's an oozombie."

"What will we do?"

"Um, well, it moves even slower than an ooze, which is saying something. So, I recommend walking away."

I just spent a minute applying the zombie template to ochre jelly. It's the monster that kobolds taunt. But at least it's Cha shot up from 1 to 10.

lol ha ha ha. oops wet my self a little that was so funny


Profane Gift is a supernatural power so Detect Magic won't detect it. Detect Evil ?? I think it depends on your DM.

Concerning the target of the effect, I think he is conscious of the effect (he must be willing). Usually Succubi use this when they make a pact with a mortal, giving more power to the mortal in exchange of a certain control on his actions.

Reading the telepathy line of the succubus, it can go both ways but I read it as the succubus must initiate the contact.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Pegasos989 wrote:
So, is it possible to detect that someone has been granted that effect? Does that show up in detect magic? Does the character register as evil in detect evil because of that? Does the character himself realize that he is under such effect? He probably feels the ability increase but what about that telepathy thing? Is he aware of that before the succubus first contacts him? When that happens, does he realize she can do so because of the profane gift?

A profane gift doesn't register to detect magic, but will to detect chaos and detect evil. And since the target of a profane gift has to be willing, the character with the gift is absolutely aware that he's under the effect. He gets to choose which ability score increases, after all.

Pegasos989 wrote:
Also, when character is aware of the effect, is the communication 100% equal? Can the character at any time choose to contact the succubus or does he always need to wait for the succubus to contact him before he can answer?

Someone with a profane gift can indeed communicate with his/her succubus via the telepathic link. In order to "contact" the succubus, the character need only think a message to the succubus. It's up to her if she replies though.

Pegasos989 wrote:
It doesn't specify living creatures there. It doesn't even specify skeletal system like 3.5 srd. So construct zombies? Ooze zombies?

Construct zombies are kinda weird... I would say no. It should specify living creatures. So no construct zombies. But you can certainly make ooze zombies... not sure how useful they'd be, though...


Thanks to everyone for answering. Especially James for the more detailed and official answer. While my questions were answered and this thread could die now, I decided that I might just as well post why I was interested of these in case someone cares.

I am DM to first level group (well, solo player controlling four characters at the moment. We've gone through a solo campaign or three together so he can handle it.) and they are about to delve into the cellar laboratory of a deceased wizard.

There they will encounter a succubus who has no motivation to fight them but will charm all of them. My idea was that she would also give the profane gift to one character (some less important stat to prevent it from being too powerful) before teleporting out so she could control and monitor him later on.

This is somewhat ruined by the "willing" requirement that I had overlooked as none of the characters would be willing to become a pawn for a demon. I guess she could use charm and suggestion to convince him that accepting the gift is a good idea but that would become too complicated, railroad-ish and would be hard to implement without other characters finding out. Alternatively I could of course alter the ability with my DM powers but I think that I'll just abandon that part of the idea for now.

As for zombie constructs... Well, the wizard whose laboratory they will descend to had turned into advanced plague zombie due to failed experiment. I considered what else would I add to the encounter and wondered if his homunculus could also turn into zombie... I think I'll abandon that too (because the idea just feels too stupid) but became interested on whether it would be technically possible.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Actually... the nature of the Profane Gift ability is precisely designed to tempt player characters. By saying that you have to be a willing recipient and giving the PC the choice of which ability score he gets to put the bonus on, it really helps to tempt players to make the decision.

I would have the succubus explain that she can grant ONE of the players her profane gift, then describe to the players that the gift would grant them a +2 bonus to any one ability score of their choice. Let them argue over who gets the gift, and whether or not it's a good idea in the first place. A +2 bonus to an ability score at 1st level isn't that overwhelming, and it's a small price to pay, to be honest, to have a player willingly hand over some of his character's fate to the GM in the form of a succubus hitchiking in his mind.

Lantern Lodge

James Jacobs wrote:

Actually... the nature of the Profane Gift ability is precisely designed to tempt player characters. By saying that you have to be a willing recipient and giving the PC the choice of which ability score he gets to put the bonus on, it really helps to tempt players to make the decision.

I would have the succubus explain that she can grant ONE of the players her profane gift, then describe to the players that the gift would grant them a +2 bonus to any one ability score of their choice. Let them argue over who gets the gift, and whether or not it's a good idea in the first place. A +2 bonus to an ability score at 1st level isn't that overwhelming, and it's a small price to pay, to be honest, to have a player willingly hand over some of his character's fate to the GM in the form of a succubus hitchiking in his mind.

WOW!

This ability is a stroke of fiendish genius, really fits the Succubus modus operandi, and players having memorised the 3.5 MM won't see this coming (I didn't).

As a Pathfinder Society GM, I'm just waiting for this to pop up in a Society scenario, and then just casually lean back, arms folded behind my head, and watch the table erupt!

Seriously, though, after the PvP bickering has settled, having a future scenario ask "have any of the players at this table played Scenario XX?" ... and then quietly ...

Spoiler:
"... do any of you have a Profane Gift?"

I love scenarios that build on favours or boons that players acquired in previous scenarios. I remember playing Living Arcanis particularly, in which a player would introduce his character as having "silver grey eyes" and you'd think quietly to yourself "he probably played Scenario XX and gained the touch of YY ... I wonder where his alliances fall now?" Though we haven't seen much of this in Pathfinder Society ... yet.

Of course, I don't really anticipate Profane Gift coming up in an organised play environment, as one player would emerge feeling like a winner, while others at the table would feel cheated, unless there was a very real threat of behind-the-scenes influencing the afflicted character in future scenarios so other players feel "wow, I'm glad I didn't accept the offer!" while the player who did, feels he brought the consequences down upon himself. It would take an adventure arc, and some very deft scenario writing to pull this one off.


Quote:
There they will encounter a succubus who has no motivation to fight them but will charm all of them. My idea was that she would also give the profane gift to one character (some less important stat to prevent it from being too powerful) before teleporting out so she could control and monitor him later on.

Oh wicked joy. Demented wizard turned plague zombie, succubus in the basement...I see damsel in distress ^_^ Any chance she could try to play her self off as a victim, captured, etc. and that if the players free her before the mad zombie-wizard infects her, she can grant one of them a wondrous gift...Or, simply as gratitude for defeating the mad wizard and thus preventing him from using her in horrific experiments, she will grant one of them said wondrous gift...?

Lantern Lodge

Chris Mortika wrote:

"EEEEK! It's an oozombie."

"What will we do?"

"Um, well, it moves even slower than an ooze, which is saying something. So, I recommend walking away."

Except that Pathfinder Bestiary now has fast and plague variant zombies that are pretty mean!

A fast ooze is not staggered, has a +2 Dex bonus (instead of penalty), makes an extra slam attack during a full-attack action, and can keep up with a halfling or armoured warrior.

Plague oozes are just plain disgusting!

Another point to make, players would probably just assume an oozombie to be a regular ooze, unless descriptive text or knowledge checks tipped them off, which could come as a bit of a rude shock to them.

PS: to Chris Mortika, I love the term oozombie ;-)

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Well, for the sake of argument here, DarkWhite, let's take a look at an oozombie's stats.

We begin with:

Ochre Jelly wrote:


CR 5, XP 1,600
N Large ooze
Init –5; Senses blindsight 60 ft.; Perception –5

Defense
AC 4, touch 4, flat-footed 4 (–5 Dex, –1 size)
hp 63 (6d8+36)
Fort +8, Ref –3, Will –3
Defensive Abilities split; Immune electricity, mind-affecting effects, ooze traits, slashing and piercing damage

Offense
Speed 10 ft., climb 10 ft.
Melee slam +5 (2d4+3 plus 1d4 acid and grab)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks constrict (2d4+3 plus 1d4 acid)

Statistics
Str 14, Dex 1, Con 22, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
Base Atk +4; CMB +7 (+11 grapple); CMD 12 (can't be tripped)
Skills Climb +10

Ecology
Environment temperate underground or marshes
Organization solitary
Treasure none

Special Abilities

Acid (Ex) An ochre jelly secretes a digestive acid that dissolves only flesh (not bone) when it strikes a foe—creatures not made of flesh (including most constructs and oozes, skeletal undead, plants, and incorporeal creatures) are immune to the ochre jelly's acid damage.

Split (Ex) Slashing weapons, piercing weapons, and electricity attacks deal no damage to an ochre jelly. Instead the creature splits into two identical jellies, each with half of the original creature's current hit point total, rounded down. A jelly with 10 hit points or less cannot be further split and dies if reduced to 0 hit points.

And then we'll assign the template for "fast zombies":

Fast Ochre Jelly Zombie wrote:


CR 3, XP 800
NE Large undead
Init –5; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +0

Defense
AC 8, touch 8, flat-footed 8 (–4 Dex, –1 size, +3 natural)
hp 36 (8d8 hit dice)
Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +6
Defensive Abilities: undead traits

Offense
Speed 20 ft., climb 10 ft.
Melee slam +9 (2d4+4)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks
Quick Strikes (Ex): Whenever a fast ochre jelly zombie takes a full-attack action, it can make one additional slam attack at its highest base attack bonus

Statistics
Str 16, Dex 3, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +6; CMB +8 (+12 grapple); CMD 14 (can't be tripped)
Skills None
Feats: Toughness

Special Abilities

Acid (Ex) A fast ochre jelly zombie secretes a digestive acid that dissolves only flesh (not bone) when it strikes a foe—creatures not made of flesh (including most constructs and oozes, skeletal undead, plants, and incorporeal creatures) are immune to the ochre jelly's acid damage.

So, the fast ochre jelly zombie still can't catch a halfling. (But at least it has a positive Dex score.)

Looking through "Bastards of Erebus", I notice the rot grub infestation (kind of like putting fruit in your jello). That brings our oozombie back up to CR 4, and makes for a very strange but satisfying monster.

Lantern Lodge

Chris Mortika wrote:

Fast Ochre Jelly Zombie: Speed 20 ft.

So, the fast ochre jelly zombie still can't catch a halfling.

Halflings only have 20ft Speed, and the Fast Ochre Jelly Zombie isn't staggered as a regular Zombie might be, so it can double move if it needed to. Unless there is some rule requiring a creature to have legs before it can run, or something specific to Ochre Jellies preventing it from doing so, technically it could keep up with a Halfling, which is pretty scary for an ooze.

Quick strike also makes it rather nasty for an ooze.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Last night our party fought a Huge Earth Elemental Zombie. I usually try not to DM from the wrong side of the screen, but after we killed it and figured out what it was, I had to hit the Bestiary.

Only thing I could find wrong with it was, where do you get the corpse, since outsiders vanish upon "death"... which in this case actually wasn't much of an issue, it having been raised by rogue necromancer exploring catacombs under the Acadamae at Korvosa. Any number of long-forgotten oddities down there!

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