After reading the thread on entangle and invisiblity, it got me thinking. If an invisible caster casts an offensive spell (like Vampiric touch), does that end the invisiblity effect? I assume yes. Would I be right in that?
I would concur... it would negate the invisibility effect, as the intent to attack is directed by you.
And what about spells delivered by Spectral Hand? Your Familiar?
Does the invisibility end when you CAST spectral hand or when you make the attack roll with it?
I would say attack with it.
I would say attack with it.
I assume so as well, I'm just saying that one interpretation of the OP's question is that. He specifically asked if you pop out of invis when you CAST an offensive spell, which in this case you would not, until you attack with it.
Just being exact.
From invisibility spell description:
The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature.
Attacking ends the spell, not the act of casting (until you attack with a cast spell, anyway).
There's the rules, there's the spirit of the rules, and there's the explanation of the effect in the game world.
As written, any attack ends your regular invisibility, including spells targeting foes, but not the other spells. Why, though? I understand the mechanics of the spell, but not the RP reasons behind this.
Is it purely because you make an attack?
If it is because an attack is a sudden burst of movement, making the enemies realize there is someone and disbelieve the illusion?
Does your character lose his concentration because of the attack itself?
Does the invisibility end because he loses his concentration on keeping the spell going?
Does this mean that casting any spell cancels his invisibility?
I especially don't understand how casting a spell through your spectral hand or your familiar would affect your invisibility.
Would it be possible for an Evil-oriented magic user to use the spell then fireball his allies?
On top of that, the spell says that "who is a foe depends on the invisible character's perceptions" but said perception can be altered or insufficient (say, in a tavern brawl, a NPC who hasn't moved yet).
Perhaps adding some fluff text would have raised the veil on these questions. Like "Magic is not only driven by gestures, components, and words, but also by intent. Some spell work better when the caster is in the right state of mind. The Invisibility spell, more complex than Greater Invisibility, has this complexity stemming from this. If the character's intent is to use the invisibility to help in harming or impeding someone, the magic of the spell dissipates by itself." For instance.
PS No offence to the women around, but (1) most of the players are male and build male characters, and (2) it's easier to understand than "he or she cast a spell on his or her opponents who can now see him or her." Or vice-versa.
@Louis IX-Honestly I think it is purely a game balance decision. A second level spell that allowed you to stay largely undetectable for minutes at a time and let you attack at will would be so broken EVERYONE would be doing it, including enemies, and the game would devolve into a game of battleship.
It has always been like that, however, for as long as I can remember. I believe even in 2nd edition. It could be that there is an example in fantasy fiction or mythology wherein invisibility ends when the character attacks but I don't know of one.
Well, I knew of the spell since AD&D2 too. And I know the RAW for this spell and use them in-game.
I just wanted to provoke thoughts as to why (in RP terms) a lower-level spell was made with a more complex set of rules than a higher-level, and why some gestures dispel the invisibility while some others, equivalent in everything, do not. As it is, an invisible character can cast an offensive spell on his allies and stay invisible - a chaotic evil thing to do, but it could happen. Since the definition of "foe" for this spell depends on the character's perception, a chaotic neutral half-orc could very well force himself to see the rampaging horde ahead as his friends.
The spell could have been made so that it lasts while the caster concentrates on it (standard action unless you have some feats allowing you to concentrate as a shorter-timed action). As it is, he can do things, even taxing ones, until he attacks.
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You're right that it could last during concentration. But can the invisible creature then make AOOs with impunity? If so, an invisible creature could simply place itself amongst the enemy group and wait for them to provoke and remain relatively unharmed.
Some things are good to think about in terms of RP, some are not. This one is in the latter group. :)