paizo.com Recent Posts in Welcome to the Final Playtestpaizo.com Recent Posts in Welcome to the Final Playtest2012-11-15T22:23:31Z2012-11-15T22:23:31ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestChris Mortika (RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#972010-02-16T17:31:39Z2010-02-16T17:31:39Z<p>How so, Kraven?</p>How so, Kraven?Chris Mortika (RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16)2010-02-16T17:31:39ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestKraven Evilfarthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#962010-02-16T17:16:25Z2010-02-16T17:16:24Z<p>he does as of right now.</p>he does as of right now.Kraven Evilfart2010-02-16T17:16:24ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestCeefoodhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#952010-02-16T13:53:05Z2010-02-16T13:53:05Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">scott harris 633 wrote:</div><blockquote> i do have a question hopefully someone can answer does augment summoning affect the eidolon. sorry in advance if this question has been answered before, but i could not find it anywhere </blockquote><p>this has been answered before & the answer is no - it is not summoned via a spell but by a ritual so augment summoning does not work with this - besides this E does not really need itscott harris 633 wrote:i do have a question hopefully someone can answer does augment summoning affect the eidolon. sorry in advance if this question has been answered before, but i could not find it anywhere
this has been answered before & the answer is no - it is not summoned via a spell but by a ritual so augment summoning does not work with this - besides this E does not really need itCeefood2010-02-16T13:53:05ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final Playtestscott harris 633https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#942010-02-16T11:38:19Z2010-02-16T11:38:19Z<p>i do have a question hopefully someone can answer does augment summoning affect the eidolon. sorry in advance if this question has been answered before, but i could not find it anywhere</p>i do have a question hopefully someone can answer does augment summoning affect the eidolon. sorry in advance if this question has been answered before, but i could not find it anywherescott harris 6332010-02-16T11:38:19ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestScipion del Ferro (RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#932010-02-16T03:06:03Z2010-02-16T03:05:25Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">tolentothe wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I'm working with an alchemist , enjoying every moment I might add, but we encountered some spectral ankle biters. At this point only the paladin had a magic weapon so I was relying on a wand of magic missle as my faithful companion, but I was curious. Do you count bombs as magic weapons? I mean they say its infused with part of your magic aura. </p>
<p>Because they are unable to become +y magic weapons due to their expendable nature I weas wondering if you could count them as magic weapons for purposes such as blowing up ghosts effectively? </blockquote><p>Yup, they could as magical attacks. Magical attacks and not affected by SR either.
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>tolentothe wrote:I'm working with an alchemist , enjoying every moment I might add, but we encountered some spectral ankle biters. At this point only the paladin had a magic weapon so I was relying on a wand of magic missle as my faithful companion, but I was curious. Do you count bombs as magic weapons? I mean they say its infused with part of your magic aura.
Because they are unable to become +y magic weapons due to their expendable nature I weas wondering if you could count them as magic...Scipion del Ferro (RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4)2010-02-16T03:05:25ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final Playtesttolentothehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#922010-02-16T02:44:48Z2010-02-16T02:44:47Z<p>I did remember this forum was for feed back on the classes and I'd like to give you some on the alchemist. Hopefully I'll get a few nods.
<br />
I think they should be able to make infusions without sacrificing the discovery (maybe a class feature at mid-levels?), that severly hinders their ability to contribute to the party and makes them focus much more on chucking a bomb at the enemy (which is a hell of a lot of fun but still less teamwork than I think the alchemist could do for the party.)
<br />
I do think the alchemical items should be expanded upon and maybe include poison amongst this (not entirely sure if poison already counts as an alchemical item, but giving us a buyable list would be nice.)
<br />
As for the turning spells into extracts I really think it suits the class and gives the alchemist the correct flavor. It was one of the things I liked about the class the most.
<br />
Mutagens. Ah mutagens. They are a good idea at first, but then they dont seem to get any better. I mean taking a minus two to my intellegence? Even if it does give me a plus four to strength its a heavy price for an alchemist. So I see them as more so something to help the eparty, but alas to make them effective you have to sacrifice atleast two precious discoveries to give your barbarian friend a plus six and a minus two to whatever. I mean yes this equates to him having 2 extra hp and +3 more attack and +5 to damage if hes playing his character optimally but you sacrificed 2d6 damage per round to give him it.
<br />
Your just better not every using mutagens the way they have been built because messing with your own ability scores isnt very good because again -2 ro either wisdom or intellegence effects your battle stats. Maybe give us more variety to the mutagens making them a little more bad ass like a breath weapon? I also suggest red bull literally giving you wings? I would totally sacrifice the ability score if it was a little more niffty. I think you were on the right track with feral mutagens. I like more of that.And again, making the infusion a class feature at maybe level 7 or 8 would do the class a big favor in making the alchemist a team player instead of a bomb chucker( Although I cxertianly enjoy his bomb chucking status he can certianly be a more flexible class.)
<br />
So the way I see it all is the alchemist is a great and whimsical class. I love it very much. I like the extracts I think the mutagens could use a little work but not much and the bombs are damn near perfect, and I love the idea of brewing alchemical items( and an expanded list of alchemical items would make it cooler and useful.) Great work keep on truckin'.</p>I did remember this forum was for feed back on the classes and I'd like to give you some on the alchemist. Hopefully I'll get a few nods.
I think they should be able to make infusions without sacrificing the discovery (maybe a class feature at mid-levels?), that severly hinders their ability to contribute to the party and makes them focus much more on chucking a bomb at the enemy (which is a hell of a lot of fun but still less teamwork than I think the alchemist could do for the party.)
I do...tolentothe2010-02-16T02:44:47ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final Playtesttolentothehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#912010-02-16T02:12:22Z2010-02-16T02:12:22Z<p>I'm working with an alchemist , enjoying every moment I might add, but we encountered some spectral ankle biters. At this point only the paladin had a magic weapon so I was relying on a wand of magic missle as my faithful companion, but I was curious. Do you count bombs as magic weapons? I mean they say its infused with part of your magic aura. </p>
<p>Because they are unable to become +y magic weapons due to their expendable nature I weas wondering if you could count them as magic weapons for purposes such as blowing up ghosts effectively?</p>I'm working with an alchemist , enjoying every moment I might add, but we encountered some spectral ankle biters. At this point only the paladin had a magic weapon so I was relying on a wand of magic missle as my faithful companion, but I was curious. Do you count bombs as magic weapons? I mean they say its infused with part of your magic aura.
Because they are unable to become +y magic weapons due to their expendable nature I weas wondering if you could count them as magic weapons for...tolentothe2010-02-16T02:12:22ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestFrerezarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#902010-02-15T23:43:01Z2010-02-15T23:43:01Z<p>Just wanting to chip in regarding the cavalier. One of my players who was using it wasn't bothered by all the changes (however he seemed a bit down when challenge got nerfed, but he was alright none the less).
<br />
However he seems very eager to use the Tactician ability, hwever since it is only oce per day he is constantly hessitant.
<br />
Looking over at other classes I don't think it would be such a bad idea to make it a rounds per day thing. It would mbe more in line with bardic music at least which would make it see more gameplay.</p>
<p>Just my 2cp</p>Just wanting to chip in regarding the cavalier. One of my players who was using it wasn't bothered by all the changes (however he seemed a bit down when challenge got nerfed, but he was alright none the less).
However he seems very eager to use the Tactician ability, hwever since it is only oce per day he is constantly hessitant.
Looking over at other classes I don't think it would be such a bad idea to make it a rounds per day thing. It would mbe more in line with bardic music at least which...Frerezar2010-02-15T23:43:01ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final Playtestxorialhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#892010-02-10T19:17:41Z2010-02-10T19:17:40Z<p>Seeing this material makes me think somebody, not point at Paizo as they have a lot on their table already, could do a great new campaign setting using these classes as alternates to some of the existing ones. Using Oracles instead of clerics and druids comes immediately to mind. Would give a fantasy setting a new feel. Could even limit familiars to just witches. Have all wizards use bonded items. I am highly impressed with the work so far. I haven't been able to playtest any of this, due no time to run a game (as well as nobody in my group being interested), but I do read up on a lot of the feedback. I personally don't sweat the small stuff, as long as the class still seems fun to play.</p>Seeing this material makes me think somebody, not point at Paizo as they have a lot on their table already, could do a great new campaign setting using these classes as alternates to some of the existing ones. Using Oracles instead of clerics and druids comes immediately to mind. Would give a fantasy setting a new feel. Could even limit familiars to just witches. Have all wizards use bonded items. I am highly impressed with the work so far. I haven't been able to playtest any of this, due no...xorial2010-02-10T19:17:40ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestCaineachhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#882010-02-08T16:13:19Z2010-02-08T16:00:33Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Dragonborn3 wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Caineach wrote:</div><blockquote>Doing some very simple archery builds at lvl 10 with 20 dex and str and +2 bow, I got an Inquisitor who can put out 33.5 damage per hit, 4 attacks at + 20/20/20/15 for 7 rounds </blockquote>Okay, I know I'm missing something, because I can't figure out how a 10th level character can get 4 attacks. </blockquote><p>I screwed up a lot.
</p>
With the manyshot, I and added it as an extra attack rather than double damage to the first attack. Then I forgot about the bonus attack from Divine Power that the Inquisitor would get. He can also have manyshot at lvl 9.</p>
<p>That being said, its really easy to get an extra haste attack that doesn't stack with Divine Power.</p>Dragonborn3 wrote:Caineach wrote:Doing some very simple archery builds at lvl 10 with 20 dex and str and +2 bow, I got an Inquisitor who can put out 33.5 damage per hit, 4 attacks at + 20/20/20/15 for 7 rounds
Okay, I know I'm missing something, because I can't figure out how a 10th level character can get 4 attacks. I screwed up a lot.
With the manyshot, I and added it as an extra attack rather than double damage to the first attack. Then I forgot about the bonus attack from Divine Power...Caineach2010-02-08T16:00:33ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final Playtesthogarthhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#872010-02-08T15:47:45Z2010-02-08T15:47:45Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Dragonborn3 wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Caineach wrote:</div><blockquote>Doing some very simple archery builds at lvl 10 with 20 dex and str and +2 bow, I got an Inquisitor who can put out 33.5 damage per hit, 4 attacks at + 20/20/20/15 for 7 rounds </blockquote>Okay, I know I'm missing something, because I can't figure out how a 10th level character can get 4 attacks. </blockquote><p>Probably something like Rapid Shot + Haste. Or maybe Rapid Shot + Manyshot (if you pretend that Manyshot gives two attacks).Dragonborn3 wrote:Caineach wrote:Doing some very simple archery builds at lvl 10 with 20 dex and str and +2 bow, I got an Inquisitor who can put out 33.5 damage per hit, 4 attacks at + 20/20/20/15 for 7 rounds
Okay, I know I'm missing something, because I can't figure out how a 10th level character can get 4 attacks. Probably something like Rapid Shot + Haste. Or maybe Rapid Shot + Manyshot (if you pretend that Manyshot gives two attacks).hogarth2010-02-08T15:47:45ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestDragonborn3https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#862010-02-08T15:46:17Z2010-02-08T15:46:16Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Caineach wrote:</div><blockquote>Doing some very simple archery builds at lvl 10 with 20 dex and str and +2 bow, I got an Inquisitor who can put out 33.5 damage per hit, 4 attacks at + 20/20/20/15 for 7 rounds </blockquote><p>Okay, I know I'm missing something, because I can't figure out how a 10th level character can get 4 attacks.Caineach wrote:Doing some very simple archery builds at lvl 10 with 20 dex and str and +2 bow, I got an Inquisitor who can put out 33.5 damage per hit, 4 attacks at + 20/20/20/15 for 7 rounds
Okay, I know I'm missing something, because I can't figure out how a 10th level character can get 4 attacks.Dragonborn32010-02-08T15:46:16ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestCaineachhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#852010-02-08T15:28:45Z2010-02-08T15:27:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">brian wamsher wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">brian wamsher wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Sorry it took so long for me to reply, I've been away from my computer for a while... now, even with the str taken away, all that does is reduce yur damage by 3/attack, reducing the effective d6's down to about 16d6, still 6 class lvls above the average sorcerer.
</p>
•edit• oah... I forgot to also state that Divine Power also Gives you the bonus to damage at +1/3lvls... which i believe is +3 damage (the same number that the strength was giving us before hand).... back up to 19d6 again... </blockquote><p>please post a build or explain because I do not see how +3 to hit and damage is equivalent to 19d6. You've only mentioned divine power so I have nothing to work with here. You're saying that a +3 to hit and damage makes an inquisitor have the equivalent of 19d6. a d6 is average 3.5 so as far as I can see without any other relevant facts (since you've given us none) you're claiming that something that gives you the equivalent of a d6 extra damage gives you 19d6. So you can see how we find it ludicrous.
<p>I see +2 bow, that's +2 damage, not equivalent to a d6, I see divine power for +3, so far we have +5. on top of a shortbow which would be d6 we have right now an equivalent of 2d6+2. add bane (at 10th level you only have bane) and we have 4d6+2. and you have two judgements that grant an attack or damage bonus. so you'll have +3 to attack and damage and used 2 of your 4 judgements a day. once again +3 is equivalent to a d6 so 5d6+2 and that's after having it running 3 rounds. Lets assume a str 18, that'd be +4, so we have an equivalent now of 7d6. +7/+2 which with our bonuses from divine power and judgement is now +13/+8 (after 3 rounds) and lets also assume an 18 dex (since he's also split with str.) oh yeah and lets assume a composite Str rated bow so +17/+12 dealing the equivalent of 8d6+1. For a no save equivalent of 16d6+2 without a save if both attacks hit. not bad, but nothing I can't match with a fighter of equivalent level. </blockquote>Ok, here is how the math folds... </blockquote><p>Add on Many Shot, the lvl 9 feat fo this archer, for double damage on the first shot, and Deadly aim, for +6 damage ut -2 to hit.
<p>My build, I forgot the +2 from bane on weapon damage.</p>brian wamsher wrote:lastknightleft wrote: brian wamsher wrote:Sorry it took so long for me to reply, I've been away from my computer for a while... now, even with the str taken away, all that does is reduce yur damage by 3/attack, reducing the effective d6's down to about 16d6, still 6 class lvls above the average sorcerer.
*edit* oah... I forgot to also state that Divine Power also Gives you the bonus to damage at +1/3lvls... which i believe is +3 damage (the same number that the strength...Caineach2010-02-08T15:27:46ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final Playtestbrian wamsherhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#842011-01-07T22:58:09Z2010-02-08T15:22:11Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">brian wamsher wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Sorry it took so long for me to reply, I've been away from my computer for a while... now, even with the str taken away, all that does is reduce yur damage by 3/attack, reducing the effective d6's down to about 16d6, still 6 class lvls above the average sorcerer.
</p>
•edit• oah... I forgot to also state that Divine Power also Gives you the bonus to damage at +1/3lvls... which i believe is +3 damage (the same number that the strength was giving us before hand).... back up to 19d6 again... </blockquote><p>please post a build or explain because I do not see how +3 to hit and damage is equivalent to 19d6. You've only mentioned divine power so I have nothing to work with here. You're saying that a +3 to hit and damage makes an inquisitor have the equivalent of 19d6. a d6 is average 3.5 so as far as I can see without any other relevant facts (since you've given us none) you're claiming that something that gives you the equivalent of a d6 extra damage gives you 19d6. So you can see how we find it ludicrous.
<p>I see +2 bow, that's +2 damage, not equivalent to a d6, I see divine power for +3, so far we have +5. on top of a shortbow which would be d6 we have right now an equivalent of 2d6+2. add bane (at 10th level you only have bane) and we have 4d6+2. and you have two judgements that grant an attack or damage bonus. so you'll have +3 to attack and damage and used 2 of your 4 judgements a day. once again +3 is equivalent to a d6 so 5d6+2 and that's after having it running 3 rounds. Lets assume a str 18, that'd be +4, so we have an equivalent now of 7d6. +7/+2 which with our bonuses from divine power and judgement is now +13/+8 (after 3 rounds) and lets also assume an 18 dex (since he's also split with str.) oh yeah and lets assume a composite Str rated bow so +17/+12 dealing the equivalent of 8d6+1. For a no save equivalent of 16d6+2 without a save if both attacks hit. not bad, but nothing I can't match with a fighter of equivalent level. </blockquote><p>Ok, here is how the math folds out. First we have a shortbow's average damage of 3.5. Next we have the damage boost from Divine power of 3. Third to the party is the damage bonus of a magic weapon (+2) with bane added on that (+2). The bane bonus dice get an average damage of 7. Then we have your judgement adding in 6. Lastly is the +1 strength mod of a person who feels like having a decent carry capacity. This comes to a total of an avereage damage of 24.5 for one attack. Now you have 4 attacks, with three that will hit at a high chance (Rapid shot + divine power + normal shot max bab +lower bab shot). This comes to about 73.5 damage for three hits, which is the average damage of about 21d6 (forgot to include the bow's +2 magic when I did the math before...oops). Now for attack bonuses we have +3 for judgement, +2 for weapon enhance, +2 for bane enhance, +3 for Divine power, +7 for BAB, +5 from dex (gotta have a 20 dex for an archer), Rapid shot -2. This yields an attack score of +20/+20/+20/+15, which is before any other random effects or feats.lastknightleft wrote:brian wamsher wrote:Sorry it took so long for me to reply, I've been away from my computer for a while... now, even with the str taken away, all that does is reduce yur damage by 3/attack, reducing the effective d6's down to about 16d6, still 6 class lvls above the average sorcerer.
*edit* oah... I forgot to also state that Divine Power also Gives you the bonus to damage at +1/3lvls... which i believe is +3 damage (the same number that the strength was giving us before...brian wamsher2010-02-08T15:22:11ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestCaineachhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#832010-02-08T15:04:57Z2010-02-08T15:04:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">brian wamsher wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Sorry it took so long for me to reply, I've been away from my computer for a while... now, even with the str taken away, all that does is reduce yur damage by 3/attack, reducing the effective d6's down to about 16d6, still 6 class lvls above the average sorcerer.
</p>
•edit• oah... I forgot to also state that Divine Power also Gives you the bonus to damage at +1/3lvls... which i believe is +3 damage (the same number that the strength was giving us before hand).... back up to 19d6 again... </blockquote><p>please post a build or explain because I do not see how +3 to hit and damage is equivalent to 19d6. You've only mentioned divine power so I have nothing to work with here. You're saying that a +3 to hit and damage makes an inquisitor have the equivalent of 19d6. a d6 is average 3.5 so as far as I can see without any other relevant facts (since you've given us none) you're claiming that something that gives you the equivalent of a d6 extra damage gives you 19d6. So you can see how we find it ludicrous.
<p>I see +2 bow, that's +2 damage, not equivalent to a d6, I see divine power for +3, so far we have +5. on top of a shortbow which would be d6 we have right now an equivalent of 2d6+2. add bane (at 10th level you only have bane) and we have 4d6+2. and you have two judgements that grant an attack or damage bonus. so you'll have +3 to attack and damage and used 2 of your 4 judgements a day. once again +3 is equivalent to a d6 so 5d6+2 and that's after having it running 3 rounds. Lets assume a str 18, that'd be +4, so we have an equivalent now of 7d6. +7/+2 which with our bonuses from divine power and judgement is now +13/+8 (after 3 rounds) and lets also assume an 18 dex (since he's also split with str.) oh yeah and lets assume a composite Str rated bow so +17/+12 dealing the equivalent of 8d6+1. For a no save equivalent of 16d6+2 without a save if both attacks hit. not bad, but nothing I can't match with a fighter of equivalent level. </blockquote><p>From what I can tell, using 2 judgements at once does not cost 2 uses of judgement.
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>lastknightleft wrote:brian wamsher wrote:Sorry it took so long for me to reply, I've been away from my computer for a while... now, even with the str taken away, all that does is reduce yur damage by 3/attack, reducing the effective d6's down to about 16d6, still 6 class lvls above the average sorcerer.
*edit* oah... I forgot to also state that Divine Power also Gives you the bonus to damage at +1/3lvls... which i believe is +3 damage (the same number that the strength was giving us before...Caineach2010-02-08T15:04:57ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestCaineachhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#822010-02-08T14:58:25Z2010-02-08T14:58:25Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">brian wamsher wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Gorbacz wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">brian wamsher wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I don't know if this has been mentioned here but inquisitor is utter jank. That is once they hit lvl 10 they get this ability to destroy anything that walks up. They get the equivilent of about 19d6 damage with no save, and can do this consitently against anything. The primary reason for this is divine power, giving them full bab and +6 enhancement to str. This combined with their ability to do judgement for damage and attack, as well as an assumed +2 bow (easily achievable by lvl 10) and you have an average damage of 79.5 with a cap damage of 109.5. This is significantly above that of a sorcerer (meant to blow stuff up) and they have to have a save for half on top of their damage. I guess it just doesn't seem anywhere near in line with any of the other classes. Just my ovservations as I had a person play one in my campaign earlier.</p>
<p>Wormyxl </blockquote>Except that Pathfinder Divine Power works differently than the 3.5 one did. </blockquote>exactly, strength checks and strength based skill checks =/= a +6 bonus to strength, in fact all divine power gives you is a +1 to hit per 3 levels which at level 10 is a +3 to hit and damage. So please make sure you're using the spell correctly before you complain that something is overpowered. You gain a whopping +0 bonus to strength. Oh yeah and you'll get an extra 10hp ZOMG that's broken 10 hit points he'll be able to one shot asmodeus. I demand that the Inquisitor be removed from the game and all our memories be mind wiped before this game ruins our childhoods retroactively and kills all our puppies. </blockquote><p>Sorry it took so long for me to reply, I've been away from my computer for a while... now, even with the str taken away, all that does is reduce yur damage by 3/attack, reducing the effective d6's down to about 16d6, still 6 class lvls above the average sorcerer.
<p>•edit• oah... I forgot to also state that Divine Power also Gives you the bonus to damage at +1/3lvls... which i believe is +3... </blockquote><p>Doing some very simple archery builds at lvl 10 with 20 dex and str and +2 bow, I got an Inquisitor who can put out 33.5 damage per hit, 4 attacks at + 20/20/20/15 for 7 rounds of combat straight before his effectiveness wears down. It takes a couple rounds for his judgements kick in at full power, and a round to buff with Divine Power. This also requires him to use his expendable bane ability, which adds 7 average damage and +2 to the hit for 10 rounds, and Divine Power, which he gets 2 times/day and adds 3 to hit and damage. He has just hit a level where he can use judgment almost every fight. The build has 1 unallocated feat. Unbuffed, he is 16.5 damage at +12/12/12/7
<p>A Fighter build with the same stats can easily hit 25.5 and +17/17/17/12 to hit for every combat the entire day, without having to worry about expended resources. He doesn't need to spend the first round buffing, so he gets an extra full attack, and does not need to wait for judgements. Next level he will also gain annother attack over the Inquisitor. There are 2 unallocated feats.</p>
<p>Personally, considering the loss of a full attack and the resources expended, I do not mind the inquisitor occasionally out-shining the fighter and dropping well below him when those resources aren't spent.</p>brian wamsher wrote:lastknightleft wrote: Gorbacz wrote: brian wamsher wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned here but inquisitor is utter jank. That is once they hit lvl 10 they get this ability to destroy anything that walks up. They get the equivilent of about 19d6 damage with no save, and can do this consitently against anything. The primary reason for this is divine power, giving them full bab and +6 enhancement to str. This combined with their ability to do judgement for damage...Caineach2010-02-08T14:58:25ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final Playtestlastknightlefthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#812010-02-08T14:43:38Z2010-02-08T14:43:05Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">brian wamsher wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Sorry it took so long for me to reply, I've been away from my computer for a while... now, even with the str taken away, all that does is reduce yur damage by 3/attack, reducing the effective d6's down to about 16d6, still 6 class lvls above the average sorcerer.
</p>
•edit• oah... I forgot to also state that Divine Power also Gives you the bonus to damage at +1/3lvls... which i believe is +3 damage (the same number that the strength was giving us before hand).... back up to 19d6 again... </blockquote><p>please post a build or explain because I do not see how +3 to hit and damage is equivalent to 19d6. You've only mentioned divine power so I have nothing to work with here. You're saying that a +3 to hit and damage makes an inquisitor have the equivalent of 19d6. a d6 is average 3.5 so as far as I can see without any other relevant facts (since you've given us none) you're claiming that something that gives you the equivalent of a d6 extra damage gives you 19d6. So you can see how we find it ludicrous.
<p>I see +2 bow, that's +2 damage, not equivalent to a d6, I see divine power for +3, so far we have +5. on top of a shortbow which would be d6 we have right now an equivalent of 2d6+2. add bane (at 10th level you only have bane) and we have 4d6+2. and you have two judgements that grant an attack or damage bonus. so you'll have +3 to attack and damage and used 2 of your 4 judgements a day. once again +3 is equivalent to a d6 so 5d6+2 and that's after having it running 3 rounds. Lets assume a str 18, that'd be +4, so we have an equivalent now of 7d6. +7/+2 which with our bonuses from divine power and judgement is now +13/+8 (after 3 rounds) and lets also assume an 18 dex (since he's also split with str.) oh yeah and lets assume a composite Str rated bow so +17/+12 dealing the equivalent of 8d6+1. For a no save equivalent of 16d6+2 without a save if both attacks hit. not bad, but nothing I can't match with a fighter of equivalent level.</p>brian wamsher wrote:Sorry it took so long for me to reply, I've been away from my computer for a while... now, even with the str taken away, all that does is reduce yur damage by 3/attack, reducing the effective d6's down to about 16d6, still 6 class lvls above the average sorcerer.
*edit* oah... I forgot to also state that Divine Power also Gives you the bonus to damage at +1/3lvls... which i believe is +3 damage (the same number that the strength was giving us before hand).... back up to...lastknightleft2010-02-08T14:43:05ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final Playtestbrian wamsherhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#802010-02-08T14:03:15Z2010-02-08T13:59:55Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">lastknightleft wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Gorbacz wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">brian wamsher wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I don't know if this has been mentioned here but inquisitor is utter jank. That is once they hit lvl 10 they get this ability to destroy anything that walks up. They get the equivilent of about 19d6 damage with no save, and can do this consitently against anything. The primary reason for this is divine power, giving them full bab and +6 enhancement to str. This combined with their ability to do judgement for damage and attack, as well as an assumed +2 bow (easily achievable by lvl 10) and you have an average damage of 79.5 with a cap damage of 109.5. This is significantly above that of a sorcerer (meant to blow stuff up) and they have to have a save for half on top of their damage. I guess it just doesn't seem anywhere near in line with any of the other classes. Just my ovservations as I had a person play one in my campaign earlier.</p>
<p>Wormyxl </blockquote>Except that Pathfinder Divine Power works differently than the 3.5 one did. </blockquote>exactly, strength checks and strength based skill checks =/= a +6 bonus to strength, in fact all divine power gives you is a +1 to hit per 3 levels which at level 10 is a +3 to hit and damage. So please make sure you're using the spell correctly before you complain that something is overpowered. You gain a whopping +0 bonus to strength. Oh yeah and you'll get an extra 10hp ZOMG that's broken 10 hit points he'll be able to one shot asmodeus. I demand that the Inquisitor be removed from the game and all our memories be mind wiped before this game ruins our childhoods retroactively and kills all our puppies. </blockquote><p>Sorry it took so long for me to reply, I've been away from my computer for a while... now, even with the str taken away, all that does is reduce yur damage by 3/attack, reducing the effective d6's down to about 16d6, still 6 class lvls above the average sorcerer.
<p>•edit• oah... I forgot to also state that Divine Power also Gives you the bonus to damage at +1/3lvls... which i believe is +3 damage (the same number that the strength was giving us before hand).... back up to 19d6 again...</p>lastknightleft wrote:Gorbacz wrote: brian wamsher wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned here but inquisitor is utter jank. That is once they hit lvl 10 they get this ability to destroy anything that walks up. They get the equivilent of about 19d6 damage with no save, and can do this consitently against anything. The primary reason for this is divine power, giving them full bab and +6 enhancement to str. This combined with their ability to do judgement for damage and attack, as well as...brian wamsher2010-02-08T13:59:55ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestThe Wraithhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#792010-02-07T12:35:36Z2010-02-07T12:35:35Z<p>Regarding the Eidolon, the rules for the maximum number of attacks specifically says:
<br />
"Max. Attacks: This indicates the maximum number of <b>natural attacks</b> that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks."</p>
<p>As you can see in <a href="http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/advancedPlayersGuidePlaytest/finalPlaytest/anOptimizedLevel20SummonerForComparisons" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">this thread</a>, an Eidolon currently can simply bypass this limitation taking the Weapon Training evolution and multiple times the Limbs(arms) evolution, and loading itself with manufactured weapons.
<br />
Although it's not completely assured that with the Multiweapon Fighting feat it can also benefit taking Imp.TWF and Greater TWF (I believe it cannot), it can still (by RAW) bypass the limit of 8 natural attacks.
<br />
Mighty Eidolon from the thread in fact, at worst has 13 attacks (6 from Tentacles, 3 from the primary weapon - a Huge Glaive - , and 4 from his 4 secondary weapons - 4 Huge Bastard Swords), and at best... 21 attacks (!!!).</p>
<p>I think that something has still to be taken in consideration, regarding the maximum number of attacks allowable.
<br />
Just my 2c.</p>Regarding the Eidolon, the rules for the maximum number of attacks specifically says:
"Max. Attacks: This indicates the maximum number of natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks."
As you can see in this thread, an Eidolon currently can simply bypass this limitation taking the Weapon Training evolution and multiple times the Limbs(arms) evolution, and loading...The Wraith2010-02-07T12:35:35ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestRoland Polyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#782010-02-07T03:43:17Z2010-02-07T03:43:17Z<p>Everything is great! I'm having a blast with all of this. A few minor edits I spotted while reading.</p>
<p>On page 9 of the final release, column 1, under the Tactician ability, third line in, the word "as" has a space between the two letters.</p>
<p>On page 36, column 1, under the Claws evolution, 6th line in, a period is missing.</p>
<p>On page 37, column 2, under the Flight evolution, 11th line, there is a disagreement. "Flying via magic means makes this a supernatural ability."</p>
<p>I know they're little and don't really affect anything, just a note.</p>Everything is great! I'm having a blast with all of this. A few minor edits I spotted while reading.
On page 9 of the final release, column 1, under the Tactician ability, third line in, the word "as" has a space between the two letters.
On page 36, column 1, under the Claws evolution, 6th line in, a period is missing.
On page 37, column 2, under the Flight evolution, 11th line, there is a disagreement. "Flying via magic means makes this a supernatural ability."
I know they're little and...Roland Poly2010-02-07T03:43:17ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestVigil (RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#772010-02-06T23:20:49Z2010-02-06T23:20:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Scipion del Ferro wrote:</div><blockquote><p> The thought occurs to me it would make no sense at all for there to be any category for a ranger to use to get a favored enemy bonus vs. an eidolon. </p>
<p>How can you be familiar with the physiology and habits of creatures which are different each time they appear?</p>
<p>Then again...how do you make a shirt out of a chaos beast? </blockquote><p>How do you fit an elephant in a Safeway shopping cart?Scipion del Ferro wrote:The thought occurs to me it would make no sense at all for there to be any category for a ranger to use to get a favored enemy bonus vs. an eidolon.
How can you be familiar with the physiology and habits of creatures which are different each time they appear?
Then again...how do you make a shirt out of a chaos beast?
How do you fit an elephant in a Safeway shopping cart?Vigil (RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16)2010-02-06T23:20:49ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestScipion del Ferro (RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#762010-02-05T22:57:36Z2010-02-05T22:57:36Z<p>The thought occurs to me it would make no sense at all for there to be any category for a ranger to use to get a favored enemy bonus vs. an eidolon. </p>
<p>How can you be familiar with the physiology and habits of creatures which are different each time they appear?</p>
<p>Then again...how do you make a shirt out of a chaos beast?</p>The thought occurs to me it would make no sense at all for there to be any category for a ranger to use to get a favored enemy bonus vs. an eidolon.
How can you be familiar with the physiology and habits of creatures which are different each time they appear?
Then again...how do you make a shirt out of a chaos beast?Scipion del Ferro (RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4)2010-02-05T22:57:36ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final Playtesthogarthhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#752010-02-05T19:38:53Z2010-02-05T19:38:53Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zurai wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Kraven Evilfart wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">playtest wrote:</div><blockquote>An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it.</blockquote>So that would make it lawful/chaotic and good/evil outsider depending on the summoner. </blockquote>No. Alignment and alignment subtypes are not directly linked. You can have a neutral Succubus (Fall-From-Grace); she still has the [evil] subtype because she's still a Succubus. Similarly, you can have an evil-aligned Outsider that does not have the [evil] subtype, such as an Efreet. </blockquote><p>Not to mention that there are plenty of outsiders in the Bestiary with no alignment subtype (elementals, jann, aasimar, salamanders, etc.).Zurai wrote:Kraven Evilfart wrote: playtest wrote:An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it.
So that would make it lawful/chaotic and good/evil outsider depending on the summoner. No. Alignment and alignment subtypes are not directly linked. You can have a neutral Succubus (Fall-From-Grace); she still has the [evil] subtype because she's still a Succubus. Similarly, you can have an evil-aligned Outsider that does not have the [evil] subtype, such as an Efreet. Not to...hogarth2010-02-05T19:38:53ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestZurai (alias of William Senn)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#742010-02-05T19:27:28Z2010-02-05T19:27:28Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Kraven Evilfart wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">playtest wrote:</div><blockquote>An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it.</blockquote>So that would make it lawful/chaotic and good/evil outsider depending on the summoner. </blockquote><p>No. Alignment and alignment subtypes are not directly linked. You can have a neutral Succubus (Fall-From-Grace); she still has the [evil] subtype because she's still a Succubus. Similarly, you can have an evil-aligned Outsider that does not have the [evil] subtype, such as an Efreet.Kraven Evilfart wrote:playtest wrote:An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it.
So that would make it lawful/chaotic and good/evil outsider depending on the summoner. No. Alignment and alignment subtypes are not directly linked. You can have a neutral Succubus (Fall-From-Grace); she still has the [evil] subtype because she's still a Succubus. Similarly, you can have an evil-aligned Outsider that does not have the [evil] subtype, such as an Efreet.Zurai (alias of William Senn)2010-02-05T19:27:28ZRe: Forums: Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Final Playtest: Welcome to the Final PlaytestKraven Evilfarthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kgjm&page=2?Welcome-to-the-Final-Playtest#732010-02-05T19:24:40Z2010-02-05T19:24:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">playtest wrote:</div><blockquote>An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it.</blockquote><p>So that would make it lawful/chaotic and good/evil outsider depending on the summoner.playtest wrote:An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it.
So that would make it lawful/chaotic and good/evil outsider depending on the summoner.Kraven Evilfart2010-02-05T19:24:40Z