Director of Brand Strategy
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I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up here yet. I did a search and didn't see it anywhere, at least.
It looks like WotC will not renew their license to produce Star Wars material. This means that their Star Wars RPG and minis lines will both be coming to an end in a matter of months. I never played either the minis game or the RPG though I know there are a ton of Star Wars fans who will be sad to see their games no longer supported. First WEG's game went away, and now WotC's. Who do you think will pick the license up next, if anyone does?
Ah the mysteries of Wizards.
I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up here yet. I did a search and didn't see it anywhere, at least.
It was. ;D
It isn't that "mysterious" though.
So, not renewing the licence may be just good business sense. :(
Crap! You know what this means. Book/Minis prices are going to skyrocket. I played a lot of the Saga edition game, and bought a decent amount of minis. If nothing else, I just like having a bunch of star wars minis around. Now the clock is ticking before these disappear, or go for insane amounts of money.
I remember the revised edition books were going for over $100 before Saga came out. This really sucks.
I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up here yet. I did a search and didn't see it anywhere, at least.
It was brought up in this thread. David Fryer beat you, but only by 8 hours.
I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up here yet. I did a search and didn't see it anywhere, at least.It isn't that "mysterious" though.
Lucas Arts, got a piece of every Star Wars RPG product that WoTC sold.
The US Economy, the primary market for the Star Wars RPG, is still finding its footing (outside of Wall Street).
If sales are not doing well, likely in the current market, then WoTC may be making little to nothing on the product line. So, not renewing the licence may be just good business sense. :(
See, if you say it's mysterious, you don't have to put the frowny face.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up here yet. I did a search and didn't see it anywhere, at least.It was brought up in this thread. David Fryer beat you, but only by 8 hours.
Weird that that thread didn't show up when I searched "Star Wars" on the message boards. Move along, then. This is not the thread you're looking for.
Well...., in my heart there was only one Star wars RPG, and it was played entirely with D6s.
Word to the Wookiee
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Well...., in my heart there was only one Star wars RPG, and it was played entirely with D6s.
+1 It's been a long time since my group's played it, but oddly enough we just started up again last month; dang, those books are hard to find to replenish, shouldn't have given mine away back in the day (but at least I traded them with someone else in my group).
I started playing Star Wars in Revised Edition, never had a chance to play the WEG version. I really liked Saga for helping gloss over some of the clunkier mechanics(using the Force should NOT use HP!), but still need to house-rule on occasion.
What's puzzling to me about this is that Hasbro owns WoTC. Why that is significant is that due to the genius marketing and property deals Lucas wrangled out of Kenner for them to produce the Star Wars toys (For those unaware, Hasbro purchased Kenner and dropped their logo many moons ago.), Lucas now owns a double digit percentage of Hasbro. I guess he doesn't have control, but I would assume he has strong influence. It seems ideal for Hasbro to keep the license. I think the brand may be stronger than it seems, and Hasbro may want to sell the publishing rights for some big money.
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What's puzzling to me about this is that Hasbro owns WoTC. Why that is significant is that due to the genius marketing and property deals Lucas wrangled out of Kenner for them to produce the Star Wars toys (For those unaware, Hasbro purchased Kenner and dropped their logo many moons ago.), Lucas now owns a double digit percentage of Hasbro. I guess he doesn't have control, but I would assume he has strong influence. It seems ideal for Hasbro to keep the license. I think the brand may be stronger than it seems, and Hasbro may want to sell the publishing rights for some big money.
I've not read the release from WotC/Hasbro, but I swore I read a few days ago either here or on starwars.com that Lucasfilm might decide not to renew the license or more accurately, let it lapse.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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Okay, if anyone can help me understand: Lucas owns the Star Wars brand, but who owns the Saga system? Could WotC, in theory, use the Saga system to create a new sci-fi game using magic wielding monks using the same rules, but losing the intellectual property? Or could Lucas sell the whole system to a new publisher? Say, for example, Mongoose?
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Okay, if anyone can help me understand: Lucas owns the Star Wars brand, but who owns the Saga system? Could WotC, in theory, use the Saga system to create a new sci-fi game using magic wielding monks using the same rules, but losing the intellectual property? Or could Lucas sell the whole system to a new publisher? Say, for example, Mongoose?
It really depends on the terms of the license between WotC and Lucas. It likely lays out who owns what and what the parties may do post-termination. Given the overlap between SAGA mechanics and 4e mechanics, it's very likely WotC has some claim to the underlying system. WotC's ability to create a new game with slightly different IP or Lucas's ability to license the Star Wars IP to a different publisher would also likely be governed by the license. There may be a non-competition agreement between the parties preventing such activities.
In the absence of any terms in the license agreement, you're in the wild world of copyright law. In that case, WotC could likely create a new sci-fi game (and, Lucus could sue them if it's too similar to Star Wars). Similarly, Lucas could license the Star Wars IP to a new rpg publisher (and, WotC would likely have a much more difficult time claiming infringement, particularly if the new rpg publisher did something like use the OGL).
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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It really depends on the terms of the license between WotC and Lucas. It likely lays out who owns what and what the parties may do post-termination. Given the overlap between SAGA mechanics and 4e mechanics, it's very likely WotC has some claim to the underlying system. WotC's ability to create a new game with slightly different IP or Lucas's ability to license the Star Wars IP to a different publisher would also likely be governed by the license. There may be a non-competition agreement between the parties preventing such activities.In the absence of any terms in the license agreement, you're in the wild world of copyright law. In that case, WotC could likely create a new sci-fi game (and, Lucus could sue them if it's too similar to Star Wars). Similarly, Lucas could license the Star Wars IP to a new rpg publisher (and, WotC would likely have a much more difficult time claiming infringement, particularly if the new rpg publisher did something like use the OGL).
Okay, so hard to tell without the contract, then. Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. It helps!
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Okay, so hard to tell without the contract, then. Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. It helps!
It really depends on the terms of the license between WotC and Lucas. It likely lays out who owns what and what the parties may do post-termination. Given the overlap between SAGA mechanics and 4e mechanics, it's very likely WotC has some claim to the underlying system. WotC's ability to create a new game with slightly different IP or Lucas's ability to license the Star Wars IP to a different publisher would also likely be governed by the license. There may be a non-competition agreement between the parties preventing such activities.In the absence of any terms in the license agreement, you're in the wild world of copyright law. In that case, WotC could likely create a new sci-fi game (and, Lucus could sue them if it's too similar to Star Wars). Similarly, Lucas could license the Star Wars IP to a new rpg publisher (and, WotC would likely have a much more difficult time claiming infringement, particularly if the new rpg publisher did something like use the OGL).
Okay, so hard to tell without the contract, then. Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. It helps!
It really depends on the terms of the license between WotC and Lucas. It likely lays out who owns what and what the parties may do post-termination. Given the overlap between SAGA mechanics and 4e mechanics, it's very likely WotC has some claim to the underlying system. WotC's ability to create a new game with slightly different IP or Lucas's ability to license the Star Wars IP to a different publisher would also likely be governed by the license. There may be a non-competition agreement between the parties preventing such activities.In the absence of any terms in the license agreement, you're in the wild world of copyright law. In that case, WotC could likely create a new sci-fi game (and, Lucus could sue them if it's too similar to Star Wars). Similarly, Lucas could license the Star Wars IP to a new rpg publisher (and, WotC would likely have a much more difficult time claiming infringement, particularly if the new rpg publisher did something like use the OGL).
With the original Star Wars CCG made by Decipher, Decipher owned the rights to the system and liscenced the setting.
After Lucas gave the rights to Hasbro (gee there's a shock) Decipher still retained the rights to the system rules.A few years later they released their Wars Setting using the same (well with a few alterations) rules as the Star Wars game(an awesome Setting with a d20 Modern RPG version done byt Mongoose) which unfortunalty got cancelled after only 2 releases (and the RPG was about to release it's 4th book when this was announced, which also never saw the light of day).
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With the original Star Wars CCG made by Decipher, Decipher owned the rights to the system and liscenced the setting.
After Lucas gave the rights to Hasbro (gee there's a shock) Decipher still retained the rights to the system rules.
A few years later they released their Wars Setting using the same (well with a few alterations) rules as the Star Wars game(an awesome Setting with a d20 Modern RPG version done byt Mongoose) which unfortunalty got cancelled after only 2 releases (and the RPG was about to release it's 4th book when this was announced, which also never saw the light of day).
There is a Wars RPG, where!?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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or here, depending on where you can buy fromThere is a Wars RPG, where!?With the original Star Wars CCG made by Decipher, Decipher owned the rights to the system and liscenced the setting.
After Lucas gave the rights to Hasbro (gee there's a shock) Decipher still retained the rights to the system rules.
A few years later they released their Wars Setting using the same (well with a few alterations) rules as the Star Wars game(an awesome Setting with a d20 Modern RPG version done byt Mongoose) which unfortunalty got cancelled after only 2 releases (and the RPG was about to release it's 4th book when this was announced, which also never saw the light of day).
WARS RPG Core Rulebook
These are only .pdfs though sadly. You might be able to find Dead Tree on eBay.
There were 2 other releases as well. Another Sourcebook and and the first part of a 2 Part Adventure (the second part was the cancelled book athat was never printed, although both are self contained and can be played on their own... they were just party of a bigger Story Arc is all). I can't for the life of me remember the names of them right now but I can go looking and get back to you (my FLGS might even still have a copy of the Adventure left... they accidently ordered 2 of them in when I asked them to get all the WARS stuff for me)
I feel bad for WEG and Decipher. Both lost their licenses to WOTC who didn't do anything impressive in either market.
IIRC, WEG didn't lose the license; WEG essentially died, and some years later WOTC obtained the license. Or it may be that WEG lost the license, then died, but I am pretty sure there was some lag between WOTC picking up the license. Don't feel sorry for WEG - they were a great company, and I remember calling them up to order books directly and enjoying talking to whomever the guy was there, but the company struck me as not having much organization.
Still, now I want to dig out my cartons of source material and run some old school Star Wars. Hmmmmm...
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Chief Technical Officer
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I feel bad for WEG and Decipher. Both lost their licenses to WOTC who didn't do anything impressive in either market.IIRC, WEG didn't lose the license; WEG essentially died, and some years later WOTC obtained the license. Or it may be that WEG lost the license, then died, but I am pretty sure there was some lag between WOTC picking up the license. Don't feel sorry for WEG - they were a great company, and I remember calling them up to order books directly and enjoying talking to whomever the guy was there, but the company struck me as not having much organization.
Still, now I want to dig out my cartons of source material and run some old school Star Wars. Hmmmmm...
West End Games lost the license after they went bankrupt due to financial issues related to imported Italian shoes.
Yes, really.
This was actually a really good, well designed game. Its too bad. Now I have no reason to get anything WoTC
...related to imported Italian shoes.
???
...related to imported Italian shoes.???I just looked it up, true story. Wow.
WEG's parent company did shoes. They went under and took WEG with them apparently.
Jeez, to get stomped out that way......
Linky ? Can't really believe this ...
Don't have a link off-hand, but it's a true story.
Kinda similar to how TSR tried to branch-out into rugs.
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There is a Wars RPG, where!?So you're a WARS fan too?
I loved that game and colected all of the Short Stories/Music/RPG/anything else affiliated with it.
I was quite sad when they cancelled it.
Yeah, it was a great card game with a very good background. I read through all of the Stackpole materials and collected most of the cards but I didn't know they made music or an RPG. That's great. I'll have to get this now.
Meh. There's enough Star Wars stuff out there now that I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see "Not-Star-Wars" RPGs arising. Hell, you can still find the old WEG minis if you hunt around.
Surprising to see Wizards dropping the line, though. Not profitable? Even with the Clone Wars cartoon and so forth? I'd figure as long as you could still find the toys at Wal-Mart, you could still sell the figures and games...
Okay, if anyone can help me understand: Lucas owns the Star Wars brand, but who owns the Saga system? Could WotC, in theory, use the Saga system to create a new sci-fi game using magic wielding monks using the same rules, but losing the intellectual property? Or could Lucas sell the whole system to a new publisher? Say, for example, Mongoose?
4th Edition Gamma World comes out this year.
Hey - - pretty plain to me that lightning doesn't strike twice.
Look at the names Slavicsek and Perkins. See whose names are on both Starwars and 4e. Try to tell the games apart if you can?
lol
...just sayin'
Saga and 4e are completely different games. Ignoring settings, the mechanics are completely different. If 4e was half of what Saga is, I would be playing it.
In Saga, you could customize a character til your hearts content. It actually encouraged multiclassing, to get the ideal Star Wars character you want to play. 4e went the complete opposite direction.
I hope you were kidding, because this license issue has nothing to do with game mechanics. There's much bigger fish fryin'.
Another reason to be glad Paizo is privately owned.
Linky ? Can't really believe this ...
The Agony of DeFeet?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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Okay, if anyone can help me understand: Lucas owns the Star Wars brand, but who owns the Saga system? Could WotC, in theory, use the Saga system to create a new sci-fi game using magic wielding monks using the same rules, but losing the intellectual property? Or could Lucas sell the whole system to a new publisher? Say, for example, Mongoose?Ask yourself this.. if the original game with all the Star Wars goodies couldn't sell well enough to make it's print run justifiable, why would a generic game stripped of all the goodies sell any better?
Didn't say anything about wanting to see such a system. I was asking because I'm curious what Lucas owns: the system, the intellectual property that is Star Wars, or both.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Another reason to be glad Paizo is privately owned.
Linky ? Can't really believe this ...
And to wish Vic and Lisa a long and happy life! ;-)
4th Edition Gamma World comes out this year.
Gamma World has alreay had 6 editions.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Lucas now owns a double digit percentage of Hasbro. I guess he doesn't have control, but I would assume he has strong influence.
Lucasfilm had "warrants" that gave them a *right to buy* Hasbro stock; Hasbro spent $200 million in 2007 to buy back those warrants.
Here's a filing that showed more than 21% of Hasbro shares going to Lucasfilm: 8.3%; George Lucas: 8.3%; and Lucas Licensing: 5.2%.
