Energy Drain and Negative Levels - 1 / day or 1 time only


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

So does an Energy drain attack become permanent after 24 hours and the first failed save, or does it allow daily saves?

From the bestiary on Energy Drain
Negative levels remain until 24 hours have passed or until they are removed with a spell, such as restoration. If a negative level is not removed before 24 hours have passed, the affected creature must attempt a Fortitude save. On a success, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. On a failure, the negative level becomes permanent. A separate saving throw is required for each negative level.

From Negative levels in the Core rules
A creature with temporary negative levels receives a new saving throw to remove the negative level each day.
The DC of this save is the same as the effect that caused
the negative levels.


Frank Timar wrote:

So does an Energy drain attack become permanent after 24 hours and the first failed save, or does it allow daily saves?

From the bestiary on Energy Drain
Negative levels remain until 24 hours have passed or until they are removed with a spell, such as restoration. If a negative level is not removed before 24 hours have passed, the affected creature must attempt a Fortitude save. On a success, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. On a failure, the negative level becomes permanent. A separate saving throw is required for each negative level.

From Negative levels in the Core rules
A creature with temporary negative levels receives a new saving throw to remove the negative level each day.
The DC of this save is the same as the effect that caused
the negative levels.

This is a good question. We had it come up in our game on Sunday.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Frank Timar wrote:

So does an Energy drain attack become permanent after 24 hours and the first failed save, or does it allow daily saves?

From the bestiary on Energy Drain
Negative levels remain until 24 hours have passed or until they are removed with a spell, such as restoration. If a negative level is not removed before 24 hours have passed, the affected creature must attempt a Fortitude save. On a success, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. On a failure, the negative level becomes permanent. A separate saving throw is required for each negative level.

From Negative levels in the Core rules
A creature with temporary negative levels receives a new saving throw to remove the negative level each day.
The DC of this save is the same as the effect that caused
the negative levels.

Sounds like two different types of negative levels. One being permanent. The Energy Drain attack is a permanent effect, while the part in the rules would be all 'temporary' negative levels.

PRD wrote:
Some abilities and spells (such as raise dead) bestow permanent level drain on a creature. These are treated just like temporary negative levels, but they do not allow a new save each day to remove them. Level drain can be removed through spells like restoration. Permanent negative levels remain after a dead creature is restored to life.

Some abilities and spells... so the energy drain attack listed in the bestiary is one of those abilities that are permanent. You get one chance to shake it, then you are stuck with it!

Though restoration can undo the permanent level drain as well.

PRD wrote:
This spell functions like lesser restoration, except that it also dispels temporary negative levels or one permanent negative level. If this spell is used to dispel a permanent negative level, it has a material component of diamond dust worth 1,000 gp.

While restoration can get rid of all temporary negative levels, if you have permanent ones you have to cast it once per negative level. Not to mention the 1,000gp per casting to get rid of the negative levels. So you pay for it out the nose.

Silver Crusade

I think it's just poor grammar and should read that a drained creature (which has already failed a save against an energy drain attack) gets another save after 24 hours. Otherwise, it's permanent. Permanent level drains get no further saves and must be remedied by spell.

"Each" day is misleading and probably a mistake in the Core Rules.

If you read the descriptions on Enervation, Energy Drain (spell), and Monster Energy Drain, all consistently state permanence attaches if the negative levels are with you past 24 hours.

Otherwise, a save each day seems pointless as you'd eventually make the save, and permanence as a consequence would be unnecessary to describe in the Spell and Monster Ability sections of Energy Drain.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

M P 433 wrote:

If you read the descriptions on Enervation, Energy Drain (spell), and Monster Energy Drain, all consistently state permanence attaches if the negative levels are with you past 24 hours.

Actually Enervation talks about them not becoming permanent while energy drain does.

PRD-Enervation wrote:

You point your finger and fire a black ray of negative energy that suppresses the life force of any living creature it strikes. You must make a ranged touch attack to hit. If you hit, the subject gains 1d4 temporary negative levels (see Special Abilities). Negative levels stack.

Assuming the subject survives, it regains lost levels after a number of hours equal to your caster level (maximum 15 hours). Usually, negative levels have a chance of becoming permanent, but the negative levels from enervation don't last long enough to do so.

An undead creature struck by the ray gains 1d4 × 5 temporary hit points for 1 hour.

PRD-Spell Energy drain wrote:
This spell functions like enervation, except that the creature struck gains 2d4 temporary negative levels. Twenty-four hours after gaining them, the subject must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC = energy drain spell's save DC) for each negative level. If the save succeeds, that negative level is removed. If it fails, that negative level becomes permanent.

The ability of creatures is specific as well that they become permanent.

PRD-Energy drain wrote:
Energy Drain (Su) This attack saps a living opponent's vital energy and happens automatically when a melee or ranged attack hits. Each successful energy drain bestows one or more negative levels (the creature's description specifies how many). If an attack that includes an energy drain scores a critical hit, it bestows twice the listed number of negative levels. Unless otherwise specified in the creature's description, a draining creature gains 5 temporary hit points for each negative level it bestows on an opponent. These temporary hit points last for a maximum of 1 hour. Negative levels remain until 24 hours have passed or until they are removed with a spell, such as restoration. If a negative level is not removed before 24 hours have passed, the affected creature must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 draining creature's racial HD + draining creature's Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature's descriptive text). On a success, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. On a failure, the negative level becomes permanent. A separate saving throw is required for each negative level.

Once you put all of them side by side it is pretty clear on the difference.

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