Hey gang-
Been reading the messageboards for a while to delve for ideas and try to anticipate the kinds of problems, rules questions etc that normally come up, then figured I might as well just address things directly.
I've been gaming for about a year now - learned on the Beta playtest because my then-gm saw it as a good way for a few of us rookies to pick up a new hobby for cheap, and now I'm hooked. Huge nerd otherwise, and after my first session I actually said, "I don't know how I got through 24 years of my life without ever doing this!" (I actually used to work at a comic/hobby store and didn't really even start gaming until I was practically out the door.)
I've got some materials to get started and a few ideas for adventures hooks down the road, but for now I'm planning to use the Crypt of the Everflame module for the first session or two (anyone run it before? how far did it get you?) and build from there. I've got some maps, I've got some minis, I've got my Bestiary and Core books, plus a bit of 3.5 stuff and PF miscellany for future ideas.
My bigger concern, though, is getting all my players on the same page, rules-wise. I'm also playing in two groups that consist entirely of experienced gamers, and all those dudes were happy to shell out the $50 for the hardcover, but the group I'm going to run I'm running SPECIFICALLY because they don't have a ton of gaming experience and were all having a hard time finding a game to join and/or a GM to help them. Two of them have the Beta rules, three of them have some experience with 3/3.5 but are a few years removed from their last games, and one is an absolute rookie. So far I've been trying to help them build their characters with the stuff on the d20pfsrd.com site, the PF wiki, and Adv Classes playtest (one guy is gonna run an Oracle), but it seems that these options aren't really holding their attention.
I should probably have a pre-encounter session with them to finish rolling up and selecting options, shouldn't I? But I also want to give them the time to think about their choices ahead of time before they get stuck playing something they don't like. It really feels like starting a new game with a new group has to overcome a lot of inertia before things really get fun.
Any advice would be hugely appreciated!
You might want to try the PDF version, which is only $10. It's a great option to give them a different option.
If they don't like using it on computer, you could run down to Kinko's and get some of the pages printed off in black and white. I reckon you could get the classes, feats, and skills chapters printed off for $5, depending on price per page.
Just an idea -- you may want to look into how many pages you want to run off and how expensive printing is in your area, since it does differ from area to area. I reckon it runs from $0.05-$0.10 per page, and at a hundred pages it might only be $5-$10 per copy.
At the price for printing off the whole PDF in black and white, the print copy is probably worth it, though >.<
You might want to try the PDF version, which is only $10. It's a great option to give them a different option.
If they don't like using it on computer, you could run down to Kinko's and get some of the pages printed off in black and white. I reckon you could get the classes, feats, and skills chapters printed off for $5, depending on price per page.
That had occurred to me, but that'll be more applicable once we actually get to the table. It seems like the free databases online should have everything for rolling up a character (and levelling up in between, too) but after they expressed the initial interest in joining my game, some of them have been procrastinating on doing the preliminary work.
The games I've played in have done both ways - rolling up on our own before the first session, or using the first session to roll up as a group. I personally had no preference either way, but maybe I ought to try getting the group together to build their characters? What have other GMs seen?
I know it's a WoTC product but I can't reccomend it more. The Players Handbook II and Dungeon Masters Guide II are just chock full of incredibly helpful information for playing and DMing. I would say fully half of those books are insights into gaming groups, philosophies, play styles, and people skills.
If you can get your hands on a copy of those I think they can really help a lot.
I know it's a WoTC product but I can't reccomend it more. The Players Handbook II and Dungeon Masters Guide II are just chock full of incredibly helpful information for playing and DMing. I would say fully half of those books are insights into gaming groups, philosophies, play styles, and people skills.
If you can get your hands on a copy of those I think they can really help a lot.
I did at one point get the chance to skim through a copy of the 3.5 DMG II back when I worked at the comic shop, and thought it especially useful for the abstract stuff about player personalities and narrative style as opposed to mechanics and building economies of cities and whatnot.
I think what I'll do, then, is get the group together to finish up characters and play around in the sandbox of the town the PCs will be from, maybe even roleplay to go shopping for adventuring gear. Again, planning on using the Crypt of Everflame module for this, with some tweaks and plot points to tie into later adventures. Hopefully I can get something from them then to later customize NPCs to fit both whatever backgrounds they come up with as well as the campaign-driving McGuffin. Depending on how long that all takes, I'll probably have an encounter or two ready to go if they should get their PCs out the door. More likely I might just run a practice combat to flex the mechanics (although, Everflame is pretty nonlethal to begin with anyway should it go straight into story...)
It takes a new player a couple of sessions to figure out whether their PC can do what the player built the PC to do. I let my players make changes to their characters' builds after the first two sessions without penalty. This takes a little pressure off of the idea that PCs and rule understanding must be perfect before the game can start.
I did at one point get the chance to skim through a copy of the 3.5 DMG II back when I worked at the comic shop, and thought it especially useful for the abstract stuff about player personalities and narrative style as opposed to mechanics and building economies of cities and whatnot.
The rules mechanics in those books is certainly something an advanced player is going to be more comfortable dealing with. You're spot on with the hints about running the "software" of the game.
One adventuring meme I have always been a fan of was the "harvest festival." Basically have the first session take place during a carnival with a variety of challenges spread through out it for the players to test their characters against. Something for everyone to use their new toys with.
-A strong man making STR checks against people for a few gold if they win.
-An archery contest where they can try and out shoot last years champion with a vs. ranged attack rolls. Best of 3 and if they win a small prize.
-An obstacle course consisting of a DC 10 Climb check over a wall, a DC 10 Escape Artist check to shimmy under nets laying across the ground, and a DC 10 Acrobatics check to cross a plank over a pool, and should they fail a DC 10 Swim check to finish. Small prizes for those who complete.
-A fortune teller who's crystal ball will grant small blessings or curses based on the players result of a Sense Motive, Spell Craft, or Diplomacy check their choice.
-A non-lethal melee of a few combatants fighting free for all with their choice of blunted weapon. Last man standing wins. (2 NPCs and then whatever PC's want to participate)
I could go on, there's lots of ideas you could incorporate but I usually just have a whole bunch of different ones prepared and ready. Then I just let the players take control of what they want to do and if one of them goes, "I wonder if they have This or That." odds are very good it's an event already prepared. You don't want to have everyone taking turns doing every single thing as that will take forever and bog the session down. Try and give each player the spot-light with a couple events.
This is usually ended with "The (Insert CR 1/3) Invasion" but you've already got a good adventure lined up.
I think what I'll do, then, is get the group together to finish up characters and play around in the sandbox of the town the PCs will be from, maybe even roleplay to go shopping for adventuring gear. Again, planning on using the Crypt of Everflame module for this, with some tweaks and plot points to tie into later adventures. Hopefully I can get something from them then to later customize NPCs to fit both whatever backgrounds they come up with as well as the campaign-driving McGuffin. Depending on how long that all takes, I'll probably have an encounter or two ready to go if they should get their PCs out the door. More likely I might just run a practice combat to flex the mechanics (although, Everflame is pretty nonlethal to begin with anyway should it go straight into story...)
I'm currently running the Crypt of the Everflame for a group of my friends. While I'll agree the adventure is fairly non-lethal...
The Crypt of the Everflame also does include personalities to serve as mentors for your PC's. If you can get together with each player for little while before game day, you could role-play out their relationship with their mentor. Starting wealth is also just a mechanic given to judge how much equipment a player starts with. Perhaps you could even have weapons and/or armor/equipment passed down from mentor to student as part of their "graduation" from trainee to first level of their chosen class in place of actual coin.
EDIT: Also... a good "starting" combat are the new Pathfinder RPG monster "the Mite". If you have your players encounter a small group of these in a underground den with several non-lethal booby-traps it can make for a fun warm up encounter. Introduce rules like difficult terrain or squeezing in tight spaces for fun. Perhaps the little critters have infested someone in towns basement and decided to make it their new home. Mites make a good starting monster as they are somewhat durable but deal almost no damage.
I have to agree with the "make a character" party! :) My group did this and really seemed to help. As folks have mentioned, lots of people know rules but forget one little thing, that someone else will remember, etc.
Our group just met at the local coffee-shop one Saturday morning and hogged a big table for a few hours. Worked out really well and folks who were new the rules learned alot. Actually I think Paizo got 4 new customers after that meeting :)
Googledocs.
Provide a character sheet format for the players (I use the Paizo Statblock for this) and put them all in columns on a shared googledoc. Make this the "official" copy of the characters for between sessions it must be accurate.
Include a page of all the house rules — and single instance your rules differ from the PRD/PRPG (the PRD is also useful for folks gaming on a tight budget.)
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I'm going to mke a pitch for Pathfinder Society Mods for getting your players started.
1) Each adventure is short. Most run in 4 hours or less. Great for short attention spans many new players have. Many adventures have a opportunity for role play mixed with combat.
2) Well defined goals. Many players get lost in the details of a ongoing game. Pathfinder society games have well stated primary goals, plus have side goals for their faction that keeps the players on thier toes.
There are other reasons to keep playing Pathfinder Society games, but once your players have thier feet wet and really grooving there characters, (maybe even by level 2) you can move along into a Pathfinder adventure or even a Adventure Path.
As with any new group, make your intentions clear and listen to what the group expects.
If they are not experienced players, they may not know what they like yet. In this case, it is even more important to state clearly what kind of game its gonna be, what style are you going to attempt and perhaps list a inspirations that players can get (movies, music, games, comics etc).
'findel