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Blood for Blood (GM Reference)


Kingmaker

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Hopefully others can use this thread to clarify questions arising in this adventure. If you happen to see another thread, please link post a link in this one to try and keep things tied together.

Chapter 1: Stolen Land
Chapter 2: Rivers Run Red
Chapter 3: The Varnhold Vanishing
Chapter 4: Blood for Blood
Chapter 5: War of the River Kings
Chapter 6: Sound of a Thousand Screams

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

I'll post here as a way of marking this thread so I can come back and comment, if necessary, on anything.


I do not know if this is possible, but can Gary or Ross change the titles of these GM threads so have the Pathfinder number be first (ie. 31 to 36) so that these threads are shown in the true playing order?

-- david
Papa.DRB

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

David, how are you able to get forums to display threads in alphabetical order, rather than in order of most recent posts?


Chris,

*sigh* you are right, I can't... *sigh* I need a nap.

-- david
Papa.DRB

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Chris Mortika wrote:

David, how are you able to get forums to display threads in alphabetical order, rather than in order of most recent posts?

Sure, just click on where it says Topic at the top of the forum.


Wow !!! Bloody awesome... Thanks!!!

-- david
Papa.DRB

Scipion del Ferro wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
David, how are you able to get forums to display threads in alphabetical order, rather than in order of most recent posts?
Sure, just click on where it says Topic at the top of the forum.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Could we have a hint as to what the third minor kingdom event was? I gather it was removed for space but the events all seem to help the overarching story along.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Scipion del Ferro wrote:
Could we have a hint as to what the third minor kingdom event was? I gather it was removed for space but the events all seem to help the overarching story along.

I can't really remember; it wasn't anything major. I wanna say it was a "Someone saw a big honkin' owlbear in the woods!" or something like that.

EDIT: No; wait. I think it was a visit from a Brevic nobleman who was all stuffy and intolerant and annoying, and helped to foreshadow the fact that Brevoy's got internal problems and would soon be pulling out of direct support of the PCs.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Melianse's stat block shows her light crossbow as doing 1d6-2 damage. Shouldn't this be 1d8? Or 1d6 if it's small. I don't get where the -2 comes from though. Maybe just carried from the short sword and the Str penalty?

By the way, I love the Scythe Tree. I've always had a soft spot for giant killer plants.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Scipion del Ferro wrote:

Melianse's stat block shows her light crossbow as doing 1d6-2 damage. Shouldn't this be 1d8? Or 1d6 if it's small. I don't get where the -2 comes from though. Maybe just carried from the short sword and the Str penalty?

By the way, I love the Scythe Tree. I've always had a soft spot for giant killer plants.

It should just be 1d6, since it's a small light crossbow. The –2 penalty should go away (her strength penalty accidentally got applied to the crossbow damage).

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Cool, just making sure there wasn't some crazy, "You're not strong enough to crank back the crossbow" Penalty I didn't know about.

My group is really looking forward to starting this book on Wed.

Poor Stag Lord glitterdusted to death.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

I just got my "happy" (its coming soon) email!!!!!!

Grand Lodge

DMcCoy1693 wrote:
I just got my "happy" (its coming soon) email!!!!!!

Yay!! My week or so email. woot!

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Its on the way!! Downloading!!! *smacking the vein in my arm*


DMcCoy1693 wrote:
Its on the way!! Downloading!!! *smacking the vein in my arm*

So, how is it?

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Ok, I was confused before on what exactly a heavy horses speed actually was because in the core rule book it gives differing overland travel distances for them than your average draft horse. So when I saw Windchaser's stat block I said, "Finally! The official answer!" only to be further boggled by his speed of 30' feet. Heavy horses have move of only 30' feet?!?! Color me confused.

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Oh wait, I think I figured it out. Since he is awakened he now walks around on just his hind legs while wearing a smoking jacket and using a pipe.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Dark Arioch wrote:
Ok, I was confused before on what exactly a heavy horses speed actually was because in the core rule book it gives differing overland travel distances for them than your average draft horse. So when I saw Windchaser's stat block I said, "Finally! The official answer!" only to be further boggled by his speed of 30' feet. Heavy horses have move of only 30' feet?!?! Color me confused.

That's a typo, unfortunately. And probably 100% my fault. We've started using an excel-based spreadsheet to ensure our stats are correct, but speed is one area that I, personally, had a blind spot for—if you don't change it to match the monster's speed, it defaults to 30 feet. HOPEFULLY I've trained myself away from this inexcusable bit of bone-headded idiocy.

In any event, Windchaser should have a speed of 50 feet. We haven't yet reconciled this discrepancy between the horse speeds in the Bestiary and the Core Rules; when we do, I suspect we'll be errataing the horse's speed up to 60 feet and setting the heavy horse's speed at 50 feet.


I can't find Ovinrbaan's stats and abilities. I know it can cast aid, but what are its motivation, ego score, and so on.
The book says "see sidebar", but I dont see the sidebar.


wraithstrike wrote:

I can't find Ovinrbaan's stats and abilities. I know it can cast aid, but what are its motivation, ego score, and so on.

The book says "see sidebar", but I dont see the sidebar.

pg. 52


Geeky Frignit wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

I can't find Ovinrbaan's stats and abilities. I know it can cast aid, but what are its motivation, ego score, and so on.

The book says "see sidebar", but I dont see the sidebar.
pg. 52

It takes up a quarter of the page. How could I miss that? I guess new my excuse is that is was to far away from the main bad guy.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

I approve of Satinder Morne.


Who's and what is the main bad guy?

How's this part of kingmaker compared to the previous three?


gorrath wrote:

Who's and what is the main bad guy?

How's this part of kingmaker compared to the previous three?

It seems to continue the habit of being more dangerous than the previous book.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Thank you!:
I am so glad that I have an excuse to throw a 12-headed hydra at my players now. Usually we mention these creatures as jokes like, "Hey! You guys settle down or I'm gonna hit you with ah hydra." Now though I can plead innocent and point at the Adventure Path as I roll twelve d20's on a charge.


Mentioning this is probably a little cutting, but...

Spoiler:
Who’s attacking Tatzlford? “Baron ##### troops,
along with a group of #### barbarians and some
enormous trolls! I pretended to be one of them until they
drew near, then slipped away to warn you.”

So she pretended to be a troll- quite amazing.


Light Dragon wrote:

Mentioning this is probably a little cutting, but...

** spoiler omitted **

LOL. I noticed that too. I think it was just written badly.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Spoiler:
Maybe she meant she pretended to be a barbarian?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Cards, Companion Subscriber

Tatzlford is missing a house in its stats. It has 5 buildings that need a house adjacent to it (Brothel, Inn, Shop, Tavern, and Tradesman) but is listed as having 4 houses.


Spoiler:

A few paragraphs above that she mentions that she dressed up as a soldier. Later was just an amusing mis-speak. :) I guess she got a bit excited.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Geistlinger wrote:
Tatzlford is missing a house in its stats. It has 5 buildings that need a house adjacent to it (Brothel, Inn, Shop, Tavern, and Tradesman) but is listed as having 4 houses.

Huh, I was under the impression that one house block could serve for multiple buildings like that.


Scipion del Ferro wrote:
Geistlinger wrote:
Tatzlford is missing a house in its stats. It has 5 buildings that need a house adjacent to it (Brothel, Inn, Shop, Tavern, and Tradesman) but is listed as having 4 houses.
Huh, I was under the impression that one house block could serve for multiple buildings like that.

Each building needs its own house.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

In the Derghodaemon's Feeblemind Aura is mentioned a Gnaw Attack; what's taht? It isn't explained in the stat block.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

If Agma is supposed to have weilded a greataxe most of his life (as per the picture on the cover and the fact that he's carrying a keen greataxe in his statblock) then why does he have five feats focused on Greatswords? He *just* got Ovinrbaan - was he really planning for this moment for his entire life?

Nitpick aside - amazing module. I didn't care for the 3rd book as much, but this one looks like it might be my favorite of the four! Great stuff!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Scipion del Ferro wrote:
Geistlinger wrote:
Tatzlford is missing a house in its stats. It has 5 buildings that need a house adjacent to it (Brothel, Inn, Shop, Tavern, and Tradesman) but is listed as having 4 houses.
Huh, I was under the impression that one house block could serve for multiple buildings like that.

The rules for villages from PF 32 aren't perfect matches to how authors design villages. It's fine if the number of buildings a village grants aren't exactly matching the number of buildings in its city grid, since each building in a city grid is assumed to have a variable number of buildings associated with it. There's wiggle room, in other words.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Zen79 wrote:
In the Derghodaemon's Feeblemind Aura is mentioned a Gnaw Attack; what's taht? It isn't explained in the stat block.

It's a power that got cut because it let the monster do WAY too much damage. Just ignore the reference to a "gnaw" attack.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Erik Freund wrote:

If Agma is supposed to have weilded a greataxe most of his life (as per the picture on the cover and the fact that he's carrying a keen greataxe in his statblock) then why does he have five feats focused on Greatswords? He *just* got Ovinrbaan - was he really planning for this moment for his entire life?

Nitpick aside - amazing module. I didn't care for the 3rd book as much, but this one looks like it might be my favorite of the four! Great stuff!

Actually, yes. He was indeed planning to get Ovinrbaane his entire career. Feats are a limited resource, and while he could probably have used a greatsword instead of an axe before he found the powerful sword, as it worked out the benefit of wielding a +2 keen battleaxe outweighed any lesser greatsword he may have found.

Not all NPCs immediately go shopping to cash out unwanted magic items to numbercrunch their gear after every adventure, in other words.

Grand Lodge

James Jacobs wrote:
Erik Freund wrote:

If Agma is supposed to have weilded a greataxe most of his life (as per the picture on the cover and the fact that he's carrying a keen greataxe in his statblock) then why does he have five feats focused on Greatswords? He *just* got Ovinrbaan - was he really planning for this moment for his entire life?

Nitpick aside - amazing module. I didn't care for the 3rd book as much, but this one looks like it might be my favorite of the four! Great stuff!

Actually, yes. He was indeed planning to get Ovinrbaane his entire career. Feats are a limited resource, and while he could probably have used a greatsword instead of an axe before he found the powerful sword, as it worked out the benefit of wielding a +2 keen battleaxe outweighed any lesser greatsword he may have found.

Not all NPCs immediately go shopping to cash out unwanted magic items to numbercrunch their gear after every adventure, in other words.

Also there's the fact that the sword specifically modifies memories to make the wielder more like Armag. As a minor artifact, I wouldn't see it being able to change Weapon Focus (greataxe) to Weapon Focus (greatsword) and so on as beyond its powers.


Ninjaiguana wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Erik Freund wrote:

If Agma is supposed to have weilded a greataxe most of his life (as per the picture on the cover and the fact that he's carrying a keen greataxe in his statblock) then why does he have five feats focused on Greatswords? He *just* got Ovinrbaan - was he really planning for this moment for his entire life?

Nitpick aside - amazing module. I didn't care for the 3rd book as much, but this one looks like it might be my favorite of the four! Great stuff!

Actually, yes. He was indeed planning to get Ovinrbaane his entire career. Feats are a limited resource, and while he could probably have used a greatsword instead of an axe before he found the powerful sword, as it worked out the benefit of wielding a +2 keen battleaxe outweighed any lesser greatsword he may have found.

Not all NPCs immediately go shopping to cash out unwanted magic items to numbercrunch their gear after every adventure, in other words.

Also there's the fact that the sword specifically modifies memories to make the wielder more like Armag. As a minor artifact, I wouldn't see it being able to change Weapon Focus (greataxe) to Weapon Focus (greatsword) and so on as beyond its powers.

I am assuming the greataxe was the best weapons available, but he practiced with a greatsword to prepare for Ovinrbaane.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

During the siege of Tatzlford, what are the PCs supposed to be doing during phases 1-3? Once phase 4 hits, they are supposed to run out and kill the trolls in normal combat. Okay.
One of the options for defenses is "a PC sits there and spams AoE attacks." Okay.
But what does everyone else do for those phases? Say, the archer or paladin in the group? Are they "too busy" leading?

I'm trying to envision a way of running this that allows me to transition to "okay, now you can fight the trolls" without it looking too forced.

Also, once phase 4 kicks in and the PCs are fighting the trolls, I guess the mass combat is over at that point? It seems that no further rolls are made. If they ask "so how's it going, is the leader dead yet?" should I just respond with "it's too chaotic"?


Erik Freund wrote:

During the siege of Tatzlford, what are the PCs supposed to be doing during phases 1-3? Once phase 4 hits, they are supposed to run out and kill the trolls in normal combat. Okay.

One of the options for defenses is "a PC sits there and spams AoE attacks." Okay.
But what does everyone else do for those phases? Say, the archer or paladin in the group? Are they "too busy" leading?

I'm trying to envision a way of running this that allows me to transition to "okay, now you can fight the trolls" without it looking too forced.

Also, once phase 4 kicks in and the PCs are fighting the trolls, I guess the mass combat is over at that point? It seems that no further rolls are made. If they ask "so how's it going, is the leader dead yet?" should I just respond with "it's too chaotic"?

Why start with the Trolls? Give your players the chance to plan the fight. (Maybe kill off/send away the mayor) This town is easy to defend, so just lay the city map before your players and let them prepare the battleplan

Your ranger, for example, probably wants to be at the bridge when the battle starts. So let him.


The Barons Stat block seems to be in error

Spoiler:
He's a CR12 12th level character..shouldn't he be CR 11 and if the CR 12 is correct shouldn't his Mistress then be CR10.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

They probably have PC level gear and get a +1 CR from that. Paizo BBEG's tend to do that. I think using a better then elite array of stats give them another +1 CR as well if gear isn't the case.

RotRL Spoiler:
A similar case would be Karzug who had +2 CR from stats and PC gear.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscriber
DM Wellard wrote:

The Barons Stat block seems to be in error

** spoiler omitted **

There was a SQ that mentioned this on his stat block IIRC:

Spoiler:
It was that he had the wealth of a PC, so had +1 to his CR as Scipion guessed.


Sniggevert wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:

The Barons Stat block seems to be in error

** spoiler omitted **

There was a SQ that mentioned this on his stat block IIRC:

** spoiler omitted **

Ah Missed that..thanks gentlemen..keep forgetting that I can increase NPC CRs by doing that...

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Can multiple swarms affect the same character?

I ask because if the dErGHodaEMoN manages to summon another one and they both cast creeping doom and insect plague. That will be 16 swarms in a 10ft wide hallway attacking 4 PCs flanked by the two 10ft wide demon.

With 16 saving throws might see the paladin fail one!

edit: C&P out of the PDF is awesome on a mac!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Scipion del Ferro wrote:

Can multiple swarms affect the same character?

I ask because if the dErGHodaEMoN manages to summon another one and they both cast creeping doom and insect plague. That will be 16 swarms in a 10ft wide hallway attacking 4 PCs flanked by the two 10ft wide demon.

With 16 saving throws might see the paladin fail one!

edit: C&P out of the PDF is awesome on a mac!

Multiple swarms can't affect one creature more than once, unless the creature's space is so big that multiple swarms can get on him. Basically... a square occupied by a swarm cannot be occupied by a second swarm. Swarms don't "stack."

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Huh, makes it seem kinda pointless for them both to spend two rounds casting both spells. One casting of creeping doom would cover a 40-foot swathe of hallway. Both types of swarms only have DC 13 distraction and poisons so that's no good. Must be the free 4d6 damage on anyone in the area.

What about the fact that creeping doom summons centipedes and insect plague summons flying creatures? Could the ground vs. aerial swarms take up separate space? 6d6 to anyone standing in a square with both would be pretty mean.

I see why stacking like swarms would be a terrible idea since they automatically deal damage.

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Quick skim of errors post:

Ameon Trask, p14: Damage on his offhand should mirror his on-hand, since he has Double Slice, rather than being 1 point lower.

Baron Drelev: His damage confused me for a moment, until I realised he must wield his longsword two-handed. Seems like an odd choice for a coward - why not use a shield?

Tiger Lord Barbarians, p46: Same old song as in previous books; their CMD should be 2 points lower due to the AC penalty from rage.

Armag, p55: Armag's attacks are wrong in a weird way. The numbers give attacks of 14 bab, 6 str, 3 magic weapon, 2 focus, 1 training, 1 aid, for a total +27/+22/+17. The damage computes to 9 str, 3 magic weapon, 2 specialisation, 1 training for a total +15. He then Power Attacks, which *should* be -4 to hit for +12 damage, giving +23/18/13 (2d6+27). However, he seems to Power Attack for -3, gaining only +6 damage...? Whatever happens there, something is obviously off. Armag's attacks with Power Attack should be as I listed above. Someone shout up if they spot something I missed that explains this.

Oh, and Armag suffers from Barbarian CMD failure as well, it should be 2 lower.

All I got right now.

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