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Rivers Run Red (GM Reference)


Kingmaker

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Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
NSpicer wrote:
PJ wrote:
So were 'they' just saying that the babies were still born and stealing em huh?

Not always. In the case of the Gyronna priestesses appearing in "Blood for Blood":

** spoiler omitted **

cool I want to keep up the Gyronna theme throughout so they really hate em.

thanx again
PJ


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Does Protection from evil negate the Dancing Lady's Captivating Dance effect?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Xymor wrote:
Does Protection from evil negate the Dancing Lady's Captivating Dance effect?

Yes, the dance is a Supernatural ability just like a ghost's malevolence ability.


In the section: "Isle of the Lizard King", the first area (N1) lists the development if the alarm is sounded (i.e. how long it will take for the lizardfolk to join the battle). This section does not mention Spirit of Stisshak (the Will-o'-wisp).

It makes sense if Stisshak is not included, as I'm guessing it would quickly unbalance the encounter. But logically, I can't see the wisp not taking part and enjoying the "terror". As well, the flavour text describes him as "appearing in all the tribe's major battles".

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

Banesfinger wrote:

In the section: "Isle of the Lizard King", the first area (N1) lists the development if the alarm is sounded (i.e. how long it will take for the lizardfolk to join the battle). This section does not mention Spirit of Stisshak (the Will-o'-wisp).

It makes sense if Stisshak is not included, as I'm guessing it would quickly unbalance the encounter. But logically, I can't see the wisp not taking part and enjoying the "terror". As well, the flavour text describes him as "appearing in all the tribe's major battles".

It certainly would make sense for the "Spirit of Stisshak" to appear if the entire village is alerted, but you're right that adding an additional CR 7 monster might make the encounter *very* difficult.

You could still have the will-o'-wisp appear, however, but not take part in the battle itself. It could appear as the floating, glowing lizardfolk skull above the lizardfolk, and describe the effects of its appearance on the lizardfolk warriors (it rallies any that might have been trying to flee, they let out war-cries "for the glory of Stisshak!" and so on). After all, if the entire village is mobilized, there should be plenty of fear and death to feed on without the will-o'-wisp actually risking itself in open battle.


Banesfinger wrote:

In the section: "Isle of the Lizard King", the first area (N1) lists the development if the alarm is sounded (i.e. how long it will take for the lizardfolk to join the battle). This section does not mention Spirit of Stisshak (the Will-o'-wisp).

It makes sense if Stisshak is not included, as I'm guessing it would quickly unbalance the encounter. But logically, I can't see the wisp not taking part and enjoying the "terror". As well, the flavour text describes him as "appearing in all the tribe's major battles".

I had everyone come to join the "party". The heroes killed everyone except for the willow wisp and after being brought down to 30 hp he decided the boy was more trouble than he was worth, and left.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Quick question about Kundal:

Spoiler:
Are there alternate ways to curing his affliction? I mean, the Bestiary is pretty specific on needing a 12th level Cleric to do it, and the party sure as hell doesn't have that sort of resource.

I'm thinking about having a small sidequest, maybe involving Old Beldame or even Jhod (that'll REALLY redeem him from his backstory!), where they can cook up a one time fix for Kundal's affliction, which could reward the party with increased fame or something. Any suggestions?


Greetings, fellow travellers.

Both ideas sound good, imo. Although, both are not a cleric you could make up a ritual

Spoiler:

(Jhod's cure could take place at the temple of the elk, Dame Edna's should involve her cauldron - that's all the more viable for my game, since I ran Falcon's Hollow as a prequel and introduction to PF and since the "cauldron incidence" my players are absolutely paranoid about them).

Then, there is always Restov with it's resources. But paying for a scroll will be costly...


Ruyan.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber
Sect wrote:

Quick question about Kundal:

** spoiler omitted **

A solution I used:

Spoiler:

I was rolling a lot of random wolf/worg/werewolf encounters and my PCs stumbled across a werewolf that needed healing at level 2. I placed a dungeon called Howling Rock on an empty grass hex just to the west of the Narlmarches.

Howling Rock was a tomb for a group of elves who used to worship Thron, but when Thron was enslaved by Zon-Kuthon to become The Prince in Chains they were cursed with lychanthropy. In any case Howling Rock was used to attract werewolves from across the land (a magically enhanced wind tube made a distinctive "howl" that could be heard by wolves for miles).

In any case - Make a simple 5 room dungeon. Undead were-elves should abound, perhaps a haunt or two. Throw bits and pieces of history and the final room should have the ghost of the elven high priest. He figured out how to reverse lychanthropy but was killed by his kin before he could try it. Bringing Kundal to Howling Rock, along with some wolf's bane (just drop a grove with it guarded by Worgs somewhere in the Narlmarches).

Hopefully these guidelines will help you out.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sect wrote:

Quick question about Kundal:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Can't you use wolfsbane to give him a new save to recover? It does of course have the chance of killing him as a cause of bad rolls, but if you have lesser restoration handy it shouldn't be a problem.

Of course the poison costs a bit if you need several doses, though.

I'm sure Old Beldame would have or know how to get some.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Leonal wrote:
Sect wrote:

Quick question about Kundal:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

I thought of that too, but

Spoiler:
the problem lies in the wolfsbane is only effective three days after infection. It's implied that Kundal's been infected for almost a month. Fortunately, the party was able to procure wolfsbane for the merchant that survived Kundal's attack.

And that brings up another issue: in procuring the item, one of the party members asked if they could just use the kingdom's resources to just procure said item, his justification being that it was under 1000 gold and "vitally important" to the kingdom. Of course, I knew that it was a bad idea in the first place, because it would've led to the party trying to squeeze out as much free loot as they could out of the kingdom, but I couldn't really justify it in any other way than "it would break the system". Any advice on how to deal with this in the future?

Anyways, I think I might take The Dude's advice... I'm also going to use it to help introduce a cohort for one of the party members (he's been sending out feelers for a cleric of Erastil since they've begun the kingdom, and I'm going to have Jhod help train him).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sect wrote:
Leonal wrote:
Sect wrote:

Quick question about Kundal:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

I thought of that too, but ** spoiler omitted **

And that brings up another issue: in procuring the item, one of the party members asked if they could just use the kingdom's resources to just procure said item, his justification being that it was under 1000 gold and "vitally important" to the kingdom. Of course, I knew that it was a bad idea in the first place, because it would've led to the party trying to squeeze out as much free loot as they could out of the kingdom, but I couldn't really justify it in any other way than "it would break the system". Any advice on how to deal with this in the future?

Anyways, I think I might take The Dude's advice... I'm also going to use it to help introduce a cohort for one of the party members (he's been sending out feelers for a cleric of Erastil since they've begun the kingdom, and I'm going to have Jhod help train him).

Spoiler:
Ah, I read it as the clerical healing had to be done within 3 days, and the wolfsbane could be any time. Or hand-waved it like that at least. My group traveled to Restov to get some as they only had a base value of 200gp, and bought poison for money they got from selling Kundal's Axe (IIRC).^^

He's now the Warden of the empire.

DM's solution sounds good though. :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber
Leonal wrote:
Sect wrote:
Leonal wrote:
Sect wrote:

Quick question about Kundal:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

I thought of that too, but ** spoiler omitted **

And that brings up another issue: in procuring the item, one of the party members asked if they could just use the kingdom's resources to just procure said item, his justification being that it was under 1000 gold and "vitally important" to the kingdom. Of course, I knew that it was a bad idea in the first place, because it would've led to the party trying to squeeze out as much free loot as they could out of the kingdom, but I couldn't really justify it in any other way than "it would break the system". Any advice on how to deal with this in the future?

Anyways, I think I might take The Dude's advice... I'm also going to use it to help introduce a cohort for one of the party members (he's been sending out feelers for a cleric of Erastil since they've begun the kingdom, and I'm going to have Jhod help train him).

** spoiler omitted **

DM's solution sounds good though. :)

Coolies, let me know how it goes.

As for your other problem:

Even an "Extravagant" lifestyle as detailed in the Cost of Living rules only allows for 25 gp worth of goods. Nobody is just going to give away stuff for free, but they might do it in exchange for something (In the case of Wolfsbane they might speak to the herbalist they've built in their kingdom. The herbalist says: "I might know how to procure some m'lord, but alas business has been so slow. Perhaps though I could give you the wolfsbane you need if you were to throw a "Festival of Flowers". My little herb and flower shop should see quite a lot of business on a day like that."

The PCs could just buy it outright, but if they act cheap, and skimp on the costs of things then that's likely to cause unrest. Nobody likes "Greedy nobs with purses tighter then their arses."


Jsut starting RRR now, and my players are tremendously psyched to build their kingdom. I'm not sure whether I'm shocked, horrified or amused that they have selected my teenage daughter's sorceress as their Baroness. She does have the best Charima in the party and wanted the job, but I've seent he state of this girl's room, and now she's supposed to run a barony? She can't even do her homework on time without being reminded! Oh well, I bet Alexander the Great's parents had similar things to say about him.


Brian Bachman wrote:
Jsut starting RRR now, and my players are tremendously psyched to build their kingdom. I'm not sure whether I'm shocked, horrified or amused that they have selected my teenage daughter's sorceress as their Baroness. She does have the best Charima in the party and wanted the job, but I've seent he state of this girl's room, and now she's supposed to run a barony? She can't even do her homework on time without being reminded! Oh well, I bet Alexander the Great's parents had similar things to say about him.

I know how you feel. In the Kingmaker campaign I am running, my wife's Witch became the leader of the kingdom. I wasn't sure how it would work considering this is only her second time playing an RPG, but she's really taken to the role.

We are now toward the end of book 4, and the kingdom of Whitecoven is flourishing.

Cheliax

The broken item in The Lonely Barrow used by the Lonely Warrior.... is it really broken or is that for flavor?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jim Cirillo wrote:
The broken item in The Lonely Barrow used by the Lonely Warrior.... is it really broken or is that for flavor?

It's broken in that it has the broken condition (you'll note the Lonely Warrior is at a -2 to his attacks and damage). You can get rid of the broken condition ridiculously easily, however.


James Jacobs wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:

Have to say I really get the 'Age of Empires' vibe from the city building rules..

Is there a limit on the number of districts you can have in a city?

Not really. A GM can certainly limit the number of districts a party puts in a single city if he wants, but multiple districts would be the only way you'd ever be able to model a really BIG city, after all. A city the size of Westcrown would take, IIRC, nearly 30 city grid districts.

Of course, your kingdom needs to be able to AFFORD all of those districts!

Silly question, but how many "city grids" can you have in one hex? And how many grids can be counted as one city? I'm guessing it's one city grid per hex and that cities can be as big as you want so long as you can afford them.

And are there limits on how many cities a kingdom can have? On the hex map for "Rivers Run Red", there are six hexes that have buildings in them that can be used for cities. If the PCs can somehow afford them, could they build cities in all of them even if they're still only ruling 70-80 hexes or so?


Jason Nelson wrote:
Tem wrote:

Two (extended) questions:

1. How exactly does the founding of Tatzlford affect the PC's kingdom? It says Loy asks for support from the PCs but it doesn't specify what sort of support this entails. Do the PCs have to spend their own BPs to start building things there? Or will things already be there in future APs if/when the PCs include that hex in their kingdom and thus annex it?

If their territory extends over to that hex, they will be able to start the town using the regular rules for clearing and founding the city and building stuff there, with the free building as described in the module.

Alternatively, if their territory does not connect to it or they don't want to spend the BP to get involved in it, Loy will go ahead and found the town anyway as an independent town outside their borders. If they expand over next to it, they will have the ability to try annexing it later.

If you like, you can also bend the rules a bit, depending on what the PCs have done and whether you want to throw them a little bone for in-game niceness. IMC, the PCs had helped out Jhod Kavken earlier in the adventure, and he later offered to the PCs to help found a town over by the Temple of the Elk. It had the ruined temple (so half price for that), but he also rounded up some other Erastil followers and offered to clear the territory for them to make it ready for a city. The PCs still had to expand through the woods to an adjacent hex, but by the time they did it Jhod and his crew had prepped the hex for founding a city.

They still had to spend the BP to build roads out there, to actually found the city district, build things, etc., but they got the "clear a hex (forest)" at no cost in actions or BP to them. You could do something similar with Tatzlford.

That sounds like a great idea! Now I just have to get Kingmaker 31 & the rest of the books.


Eric Hinkle wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:

Have to say I really get the 'Age of Empires' vibe from the city building rules..

Is there a limit on the number of districts you can have in a city?

Not really. A GM can certainly limit the number of districts a party puts in a single city if he wants, but multiple districts would be the only way you'd ever be able to model a really BIG city, after all. A city the size of Westcrown would take, IIRC, nearly 30 city grid districts.

Of course, your kingdom needs to be able to AFFORD all of those districts!

Silly question, but how many "city grids" can you have in one hex? And how many grids can be counted as one city? I'm guessing it's one city grid per hex and that cities can be as big as you want so long as you can afford them.

And are there limits on how many cities a kingdom can have? On the hex map for "Rivers Run Red", there are six hexes that have buildings in them that can be used for cities. If the PCs can somehow afford them, could they build cities in all of them even if they're still only ruling 70-80 hexes or so?

There is no limit on grids per hex, but I would not worry about it until the PC's got more than 3 or 4. Then I might actually have to do some math to figure out how much space they are taking up.

The cities can be as big you want. There is a thread strictly for Kingdom Building that answered the "how big" question.

Qadira

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:

Have to say I really get the 'Age of Empires' vibe from the city building rules..

Is there a limit on the number of districts you can have in a city?

Not really. A GM can certainly limit the number of districts a party puts in a single city if he wants, but multiple districts would be the only way you'd ever be able to model a really BIG city, after all. A city the size of Westcrown would take, IIRC, nearly 30 city grid districts.

Of course, your kingdom needs to be able to AFFORD all of those districts!

Silly question, but how many "city grids" can you have in one hex? And how many grids can be counted as one city? I'm guessing it's one city grid per hex and that cities can be as big as you want so long as you can afford them.

And are there limits on how many cities a kingdom can have? On the hex map for "Rivers Run Red", there are six hexes that have buildings in them that can be used for cities. If the PCs can somehow afford them, could they build cities in all of them even if they're still only ruling 70-80 hexes or so?

There is no limit on grids per hex, but I would not worry about it until the PC's got more than 3 or 4. Then I might actually have to do some math to figure out how much space they are taking up.

The cities can be as big you want. There is a thread strictly for Kingdom Building that answered the "how big" question.

Okay, the Civil Engineer in me just had to go after this one.

Let's assume the average city block is 400 feet long, your mileage may vary depending on where you live. And since the district is a 3x3 block district, the district would be 1200 feet plus streets. Let's make this real simple and say that the streets are each 40 feet wide. So there would be 3 streets per district (since adjoining districts would share a street). Thus the average district is 1320 feet wide by 1320 feet long. (Look at that, exactly a quarter of a mile.) We know a hex is 12 miles across, side to side. So, you could fit 48 districts in a single line before you would overflow into the next hex. I would be impressed if any Kingmaker city got to be that big.

Another way to look at it is, a district is 1,742,400 sq.ft. or 0.0625 sq.mi. And a hex is 1,122 sq.mi. So, by area, you could fit 17,952 districts in one hex. I doubt even Absalom or Katheer or any of the major cities of Golarion are even close to that size.

I reserve the right to be corrected in my math and assumptions of the cities of Golarion.

Edit: I checked the map of Absalom and from the scale drawn on the map, it appears to be about 8 miles wide and 10 miles long. Still not a full hex.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Shieldknight wrote:
And a hex is 1,122 sq.mi.

o.O Was that a typo? I think I recall James or others saying that a hex was a little over 100 sq. miles, around 120 or something. It is only 12 miles from the side of one hex to the opposite side. If it were a square, it'd only be 144 square miles. I can't imagine turning it into a hex would be ten times that. :)


Karui Kage wrote:
Shieldknight wrote:
And a hex is 1,122 sq.mi.

o.O Was that a typo? I think I recall James or others saying that a hex was a little over 100 sq. miles

Yes, that is a typo. The area of the inscribed circle, with a diameter of 12 miles (which is the distance of Kingmaker hexes, edge to edge), is 113 sq. mi. Thus, the area of the hex would be just a bit greater than that.

N8

Edit: Not to take completely take apart ShieldKnight, but the AP specifies that each block is 750 feet per side, giving the entire grid of 36 blocks (plus another "block" on each side for roads and alleys and such) an area of 1 sq. mi. So, yes, 12 in a row will completely cover a hex from edge to edge. I do not have a map of Absalom (where'd you get that, btw??) but 8 x 10 would be the majority of a hex in Kingmaker.

Qadira

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

WOOPS, sorry about that, used the wrong angle.

It comes out to just shy of 125 sq. mi., so using my numbers it would be 2000 districts to fill a hex.

As far as each block being 750 feet, I'll let the designers use their number, and I'll use mine. :) I don't know too many shops/mills/taverns/etc. that would take up 750 feet. Unless they meant 750 for a side of a district. Then it would seem a little short. But that's up to each GM. Or I'm misunderstanding something, because I thought each 4 square grouping was a block, and the 3x3 grid was a district. Even then 750 feet is a little extreme for a 4 square grouping.

As for the map, just search for Absalom in the pathfinder wiki. I'm assuming they took it from a book or a blog post.


It has been mentioned that building a "tavern" isn't just a single building but rather something more akin to a city block where the most prominent feature happens to be a tavern. There are lots of other buildings (mostly housing) filling in the rest of that 750 ft.

Qadira

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Okay, went back into RRR and found the place where it talks about the size of each block. Seems a little excessive to me. That you would only have one shop/tavern/etc. every 750 feet and a shrine, or any other two block building would take up 1500 feet, over a quarter of a mile. I know that this is not real life, but even in my town where it is 2 miles wide by about 3 miles long, there are over 20 different temples (churches). Even if you say half of them are shrines, we are talking 16,875,000 sq. ft. That's 10% of my town's area. In order to keep the verisimilitude I'm going to change it to what I posted before.

To each their own though. That's the beauty of a RPG.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

These are the numbers I ended up going with:

Low Pop building (Shrine, Park, other similar structures): 25d3 (25-75)
Medium Pop building (Most buildings): 50d3 (50-150)
High Pop building (House or Tenement): 75d3 (75-225)

Farm: 125d4 (125-500)
Non-Farm Improvement (Mine, Camp, Fort): 100d4 (100-400)
Unimproved claimed hex: 75d4 (75-300)

Qadira

Right, so I'm running Kingmaker, and we just got into the Kingdom building section of things, and I ran into a quick question I had: Can you have negative Consumption, meaning that you are "banking" GP? My PCs seem to like to grab up a bunch farmlands, so much so that seven of the nine hexes currently under their control are farms, resulting in negative consumption; do they gain these extra BP back during Step 2 of Upkeep?

Also, can you build cities and farmlands in resource/cave/landmark hexes and receive both the benefits of the hex and your constructions?

Osirion

AlanM wrote:
Right, so I'm running Kingmaker, and we just got into the Kingdom building section of things, and I ran into a quick question I had: Can you have negative Consumption, meaning that you are "banking" GP? My PCs seem to like to grab up a bunch farmlands, so much so that seven of the nine hexes currently under their control are farms, resulting in negative consumption; do they gain these extra BP back during Step 2 of Upkeep?

Nope, Consumption can never go below zero.

AlanM wrote:
Also, can you build cities and farmlands in resource/cave/landmark hexes and receive both the benefits of the hex and your constructions?

As far as I remember, yes. Hexes are pretty big areas.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Tem wrote:
Jason Nelson wrote:
Scipion del Ferro wrote:

Regarding the Dancing Lady. Could she tie up entranced characters or force them to drink her elixir of love?

She looks like a really fun encounter up until the part where she stop dancing and everyone else not grappled kills her. Any advice here?

Her dancing is not limited in duration and she is able to do other things WHILE dancing... so why would she ever stop dancing?

Just keep it up until she's finished off everyone...

Well - she can so *some* things while dancing, but it was clarified further up the thread that she cannot grapple while dancing which means she has to subdue everyone in some other manner before draining their blood.

My party has 6 players in it and they went STRAIGHT up into the main tower. So I threw everything I had at them (Rigg, the Dancing Lady, and the other one). It just so happens that our game stopped right in the middle of combat. So I decided to "blow up" the area First World-style.

So this is what I wrote them via email to preface the next game session...

"As you fight to survive this surreal event, your knees buckle underneath a moving...floor? For a moment you can't tell what is moving. The floor, the walls, the sky (through the somehow see-through ceiling), the AIR!?!....it's all shifting and bleeding in on itself creating colors and shapes you didn't know existed.

For a good three seconds you get a glimpse through the walls (!?!) of a landscape more intense in it's vibrancy and intensity. All that is interrupted as a HUUGE beastly, black-as-night dragon seems hell-bent on flying straight at you...straight at the wall in which you can see through so clearly.

~~~~~SO CONFUSING!!~~~~~~~

When you snap back to reality, there are so many things going on at once--creatures not seen before, running around yelling and screaming; members of your community in the tower (some unharmed laying on the vine-strewn ground, some trapped halfway within the worked stone of the tower screaming in agony--familiar faces within this room. And when all is back to "normal"--when all is said and done, the Dancing Lady at the center of attention. If there still is a dragon, you can't see it. Yet.

WHAT. IS. GOING. ON.

What just happened? There was a temporary rip in the fabric of reality all across the Stolen Lands with the ruined elven tower as the epicenter. Now there's a bunch of different kind of fey running around, some bent on causing mayhem, some driven by murderous rage. The PCs won't have to KILL all of them but they'll be there as a distraction before they all run off into the wilderness.

Some of the stuff is foreshadowing future installments of KM as well (like the black dragon, Ilthuliak).

Fun stuff.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Has anyone whipped up any alternate stats for Malgorata Niska--like her as a witch or an oracle?


William Bryan wrote:
Has anyone whipped up any alternate stats for Malgorata Niska--like her as a witch or an oracle?

Given that she's supposed to be a cleric of Gyronna, I really think her class fits like a glove. That said, I ran this particular encounter later than suggested (at the start of VV) so I ended up giving her a couple more minions and a couple more levels.


Hmmm. Do you gain exploration XP in Rivers Run Red+? I haven't seen it in the book, but somebody mentioned it in the expanded kingdom events thread.


The PCs get 100XP per Hex explored - if it's not (again) mentioned in #2, it's in #1, page 59.

Ruyan.


Did the original Quickling have Sneak Attack? The Bestiary 2 Quickling has +1d6 Sneak Attack; the one in Rivers Run Red has three levels of Rogue, but only +2d6.


Troubleshooter wrote:
Did the original Quickling have Sneak Attack? The Bestiary 2 Quickling has +1d6 Sneak Attack; the one in Rivers Run Red has three levels of Rogue, but only +2d6.

Quicklings from Tome of Horrors (as referenced in the AP32 statblock) do not have sneak attack as a racial ability. It seems when they were included in the Bestiary 2, that got added. It certainly makes Rigg a bit more of a threat when he can spring attack / hide and get sneak attack over and over again. I guess he would also get bleed 3 if you update him. He's definitely one of the most annoying enemies my PCs have faced so far.


There are several differences between the Rivers Run Red version and the Bestiary 2 version. For instance, the Bestiary 2 version doesn't have spell-like abilities, and in exchange it gets sneak attack.

You'll just have to choose which version you want to use for your game.


Because my players have post-Kingmaker resources, I update enemies with new materials. I'm trying to decide whether or not giving him the feat from the Inner Sea World Guide that substitutes Dex for Strength on scimitar attacks would too powerful ... plus how to do so.

For what it's worth, I'd probably be trading out his rogue ability for Fast Stealth so he can consistently come out from behind the central tower, Spring Attack a PC, and hide back behind it. The Difficult terrain affects him as well as the PCs (minus the Druid), unfortunately.

Until she casts Entangle, anyway. He'll probably make the save but even then that's still 1/4 speed.

Too bad its invisibility states that it only kicks in if you don't take actions that aren't Free Actions; if he got caught, it would be convenient to sit there and Total Defense until he went invisible, then whip out Sneak Attack daggers.

I think I'm going to make him a Fighter1/Rogue2 and see what he looks like.

Also ... it seems like the original statblock is broke. Its attack bonus is as if it were attacking with Strength, when he has Weapon Finesse. His Dexterity alone could exceed that value quite well.


Slapping Rogue2/Fighter1 on the Bestiary 2 Quickling with Dervish Dance and WF: Rapier has him attacking with a +1 rapier at +14 (1d4+8 plus poison) with +2d6 Sneak Attack when applicable. And the Bleed damage, if you choose to go that way.

Naturally, that's Spring Attacking in and out when possible. He'll try to Acrobatics away if somebody closes in with him -- and with a +14, he can make it against a lot of people.

The real treasure is that +50ish Acrobatics allows him to standing jump across a lot of that difficult terrain in the keep, although I'm trying to decide if it should still negate Entangle. At this point it's almost a fairness concern.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

Troubleshooter wrote:
Also ... it seems like the original statblock is broke. Its attack bonus is as if it were attacking with Strength, when he has Weapon Finesse. His Dexterity alone could exceed that value quite well.

Both the Quickling as well as the Barrow Wight have a typo that dropped the tens-digit from their main attack. Increase their to-hit by 10 and the math works out.


Well, my updated Quickling has been the hardest fight in the AP so far -- there were a couple times the PCs overreached into areas their level couldn't easily handle that randomly gave them big damage, but they dealt with them quickly.

This fight was consistently hard, which is satisfying when running a group that batmans their way out of most fights.

The highlight of the battle was when the fighter charged through the central room -- he spent most of the battle chasing the quickling, who was avoiding him more than anybody else for his cold iron weapons -- and one round later, the Insanity Mist trap went off with nobody inside the room, Fighter standing just beyond the area of effect.


Troubleshooter wrote:

Well, my updated Quickling has been the hardest fight in the AP so far -- there were a couple times the PCs overreached into areas their level couldn't easily handle that randomly gave them big damage, but they dealt with them quickly.

This fight was consistently hard, which is satisfying when running a group that batmans their way out of most fights.

The highlight of the battle was when the fighter charged through the central room -- he spent most of the battle chasing the quickling, who was avoiding him more than anybody else for his cold iron weapons -- and one round later, the Insanity Mist trap went off with nobody inside the room, Fighter standing just beyond the area of effect.

Good fight and good story. Rigg was a pain in the ass for my players as well. He took down the ranger, who was probably the greatest single threat to him (given that her favorite enemy is fey, she was liberally equipped with cold iron arrows and had on the Stag Lord's helmet and was really the only legitimate non-magical ranged threat in the party at that time), with a surprise round sneak attack, then proceeded to frustrate the hell out of the rest of them and slowly bleed them with hit and run tactics. They finally forced him to flee after a lucky critical hit severed three fingers on his sword hand, forcing him to drop his sword and flee for his life. He'll be back, though. I just haven't decided when.


The worst thing about Rigg is that with that +50-something Acrobatics, he can Spring Attack in and out with standing jumps, ignoring the terrain. He would have been ruinous if it weren't for the Wizard's Glitterdust -- he would have kept popping in and out of cover, delivering sneak attacks.


I think I'm going to go over the Bestiary 2 with a fine-toothed comb and see how many of Kingmaker monsters appear in it. So far, the Quickling and Rock Troll both appear in Bestiary 2 with improved stats. How many more have been updated, I wonder?


Ok, the group I have has 1 city with 4 districts and just started another city. My question is, when rolling on the monthly phases, am I using the city stats or the kingdom stats? Do I use the stability of the kingdom or the individual city? Do I use the economy of the kingdom or the individual city?

Taldor

Cities only add to kingdom stats, they don't have seperate stats for stability, economy, loyalty etc. they just modify these values.

Roll for the kingdom.


Playing right now. They rolled a natural 20 during the diplomacy against Grigori. The next day they swayed him again with another good roll. Long story short, he's our Kingdom's new Councilor. haha


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Thundershot wrote:
Playing right now. They rolled a natural 20 during the diplomacy against Grigori. The next day they swayed him again with another good roll. Long story short, he's our Kingdom's new Councilor. haha

You should have him embezzle tons of money and then leave the kingdom in shambles from the resulting unrest.


Caineach wrote:
Thundershot wrote:
Playing right now. They rolled a natural 20 during the diplomacy against Grigori. The next day they swayed him again with another good roll. Long story short, he's our Kingdom's new Councilor. haha
You should have him embezzle tons of money and then leave the kingdom in shambles from the resulting unrest.

I've been thinking about it, and I'm not sure what to do. It wasn't just rolls... It was an excellent RP session. I pulled out all the stops with Grigori and ran out of excuses for him. The PC's were in the crowd and catcalled him back, and eventually called him out and offered to talk in the tavern over a hot meal and lots of ale. They complimented him in the way he handled a crowd and the effect it had on the people. They offered him the job as the new Councilor. After a long RP session, I had them roll the diplomacy check and they got a natural 20. I ruled that he was going to seriously think about it. The next night they met up with him again, and once again put the offer back on the table. They complimented his oratory skills and said they could sure use someone like him. They rolled high again... I said screw it and had him accept.

So do I really want to punish them for doing such a great session? It wasn't the solution that I was expecting, but I couldn't think of a reason he'd refuse. They found out that he was hired by a third party that didn't want to be known, so he truly doesn't know who wants the kingdom to fall...

Thanks
Chris


I would rule (hehe) the same as you did. The players earned their victory (and I gather you all had fun, too!) so let them have it (for the time being).

Later, you could always have King I put pressure on him - I think, he charged Grigori with upsetting the PCs kingdom, or was it somebody else? Somehow Fort Drelev swims into focus...

Ruyan.

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