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Rivers Run Red (GM Reference)


Kingmaker

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Paizo Employee Senior Developer

RunebladeX wrote:

Im not understanding the worth and weight of the owlbears barding. it doesn't add up at all according the the chart for armor for unusual creatures.

studded leather
price: 25gp weight 20 lbs

Huge nonhumananoid armor modifier
pricex8 weightx5

It should be?
Price= (25x8)+ 150 masterwork = 350 GP
weight= 20 lbs X 5 = 100lbs

How was a cost of 250Gp and 150 LBs achieved in the AP?

I'm curious as im upgrading the the owlbear and giving heavier barding and trying to keep track of WBL for the owlbear and pc's as well. So either the chart is incorrect, the AP is incorrect, or i'm missing something...

anyone got a take on this?

The owlbear's armor was changed during development, but the pricing and weight was not. Your calculations are correct for what the owlbear has in the adventure. Note, however, that the owlbear doesn't have WBL. The value of the armor is considered part of its treasure, and 100 gp or so in value shouldn't make much of a difference. If you change the armor (and therefore its value) it's more important to see if the change in value will give your PCs too much wealth (though again, a couple of hundred gp here or there shouldn't make much difference).

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

Troubleshooter wrote:

Has anybody mentioned that The Owlbear's Tactics mentions a Rend? It doesn't have a Rend. The base Owlbear doesn't have a Rend either.

For that matter, I recall that Niska's Tactics includes using a domain power she doesn't get for several levels.

The owlbear lost the rend ability in development. Ignore that part of its tactics.

Likewise, you can ignore the mention of aura of madness in Malgorzata's tactics (or replace it with her vision of madness domain power).


You also have to watch out for wrong attack rolls, AC and tactics for the big bad in Part 3 the Lonely Barrow, Rigg's wrong attack rolls in G4, and the Lizard King's use of Vital Strike without the prequisites to take the feat in that section.

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

I just ran the Dancing Lady combat. She cursed the group paladin with her dying curse. Before we realized that the curse took away his spellcasting ability, we got into a bit of debate about whether or not the lesser restoration he had prepared would remove the effects of it. Reading the dying curse, restoration vs. lesser restoration, and bestow curse, I get the feeling that it's not supposed to be able to be removed with a lesser restoration. However, he reads the first line in the description of the spell as being able to heal that damage.

As I said, his spellcasting is gone (CHA dropped to 10) so he can't cast it anyway, but I would like some clarification if possible.

Thanks.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Runnetib wrote:

I just ran the Dancing Lady combat. She cursed the group paladin with her dying curse. Before we realized that the curse took away his spellcasting ability, we got into a bit of debate about whether or not the lesser restoration he had prepared would remove the effects of it. Reading the dying curse, restoration vs. lesser restoration, and bestow curse, I get the feeling that it's not supposed to be able to be removed with a lesser restoration. However, he reads the first line in the description of the spell as being able to heal that damage.

As I said, his spellcasting is gone (CHA dropped to 10) so he can't cast it anyway, but I would like some clarification if possible.

Thanks.

The ability is obviously modeled after bestow curse (-6 to an ability score). I'd go with what is written in bestow curse. EDIT: As a matter of fact, I did rule it took a remove curse to get rid of it. Of course it was a moot point since the Paladin that was affected in my party was killed by the Grimstalker and the Assassin Vine soon thereafter.

On the flip side, you're the GM, and what you say goes in a situation like this.

Of course, if you feel that having to send them someplace to get a remove curse cast would be detrimental to the flow of your game, you might be better off letting the lesser restoration handle it.

I run into issues like this with my group because their only divine caster is an oracle with a limited spell list. He never bothers to pick up scrolls he can use to counter his limitations either.

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber
Geeky Frignit wrote:
Runnetib wrote:

I just ran the Dancing Lady combat. She cursed the group paladin with her dying curse. Before we realized that the curse took away his spellcasting ability, we got into a bit of debate about whether or not the lesser restoration he had prepared would remove the effects of it. Reading the dying curse, restoration vs. lesser restoration, and bestow curse, I get the feeling that it's not supposed to be able to be removed with a lesser restoration. However, he reads the first line in the description of the spell as being able to heal that damage.

As I said, his spellcasting is gone (CHA dropped to 10) so he can't cast it anyway, but I would like some clarification if possible.

Thanks.

The ability is obviously modeled after bestow curse (-6 to an ability score). I'd go with what is written in bestow curse. EDIT: As a matter of fact, I did rule it took a remove curse to get rid of it. Of course it was a moot point since the Paladin that was affected in my party was killed by the Grimstalker and the Assassin Vine soon thereafter.

On the flip side, you're the GM, and what you say goes in a situation like this.

Of course, if you feel that having to send them someplace to get a remove curse cast would be detrimental to the flow of your game, you might be better off letting the lesser restoration handle it.

I run into issues like this with my group because their only divine caster is an oracle with a limited spell list. He never bothers to pick up scrolls he can use to counter his limitations either.

I kinda love how things seem to work themselves out...crazy, but get this:

The sorceress (now dead) was affected by a negative level. She sent correspondence to Brevoy to seek out a divine caster to travel to their kingdom to cast the needed spell to remove the negative level. Sorceress, follower of Desna with elemental bloodline (fire) dies. Rest of the party gets back to town on the summer equinox with her corpse. The summer equinox is the day of the Ritual of Stardust, Desna holiday in which bonfires are lit. Same player makes a cleric. They're level 6, which means she's got access to the remove curse spell now needed by the paladin. The game worked itself so I could story her into receiving/answering her own request for aid. I love this game.

EDIT: Fragment replacement.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gentleman wrote:

What's the point exactly of building several cities? Aside from the one per city buildings(which are really really expensive), I see very little reason(aside from realism) to create more than one city.

And even the cities they can get freely, what point is there to invest any BPs in anything but one city?

More than 1 city allows for you to build more than 1 building per month. Smaller buildings are more cost effective in general, so this becomes an advantage as you start generating more than ~15BP/month.

Qadira

I might have gotten myself into a small corner and I am looking for ideas:

I am running a modified version of the AP with gestalt characters. It has no substantial impact on the plot except by the time RRR started the group was basically in charge of their kingdom wholesale rather than any kind of colonial transition period as such they are absolute rulers and defend the real and so on.

Basically what it comes down to is that some of the player quests from RRR stipulate that the "kingdom" will pay whoever does the deed. Obviously a couple of these I can say that Brevoy offers a reward as incentive to deal with it rather than have them marshal resources but I can't do that for all of them. Why would a king pay himself to take care of a threat to the kingdom?

I guess I am just looking for some ideas from other GMs about who the "source" of some of these rewards are. Hopefully my train of thought makes sense.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PirateDevon wrote:

I might have gotten myself into a small corner and I am looking for ideas:

I am running a modified version of the AP with gestalt characters. It has no substantial impact on the plot except by the time RRR started the group was basically in charge of their kingdom wholesale rather than any kind of colonial transition period as such they are absolute rulers and defend the real and so on.

Basically what it comes down to is that some of the player quests from RRR stipulate that the "kingdom" will pay whoever does the deed. Obviously a couple of these I can say that Brevoy offers a reward as incentive to deal with it rather than have them marshal resources but I can't do that for all of them. Why would a king pay himself to take care of a threat to the kingdom?

I guess I am just looking for some ideas from other GMs about who the "source" of some of these rewards are. Hopefully my train of thought makes sense.

During RRR the cash payout from restovis never that great. One or two strategically placed magical items in hoards should be reward enough. This should take care of WBL, and the defense of their own independant kingdom should serve as incentive.

Does that help?

EDIT: As far as the source of these quests, rumors and kingdom events should work great.

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber
PirateDevon wrote:

I might have gotten myself into a small corner and I am looking for ideas:

I am running a modified version of the AP with gestalt characters. It has no substantial impact on the plot except by the time RRR started the group was basically in charge of their kingdom wholesale rather than any kind of colonial transition period as such they are absolute rulers and defend the real and so on.

Basically what it comes down to is that some of the player quests from RRR stipulate that the "kingdom" will pay whoever does the deed. Obviously a couple of these I can say that Brevoy offers a reward as incentive to deal with it rather than have them marshal resources but I can't do that for all of them. Why would a king pay himself to take care of a threat to the kingdom?

I guess I am just looking for some ideas from other GMs about who the "source" of some of these rewards are. Hopefully my train of thought makes sense.

I believe somewhere in possibly this very thread near the beginning, James Jacobs said that 'kingdom' refers to Brevoy.

EDIT: See here.

Qadira

I get that JJ mentions Brevoy because my impression is that ideally the relationship is one where Brevoy has some authority at the start of RRR, but for my game when this chapter starts it would be like Germany turning to France and offering rewards for France to resolve its own domestic disputes, that might spin right for a single hook but seems odd.if used too much.

@BornofHate- good point about magic items. My players already have a robust petition and information system and a well placed ring caught in the worgs teeth or stomach or an extra weapon on a troll they attack for blood could cover the reward and otherwise the task is the kingdoms business. Good point thanks.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
PirateDevon wrote:

I get that JJ mentions Brevoy because my impression is that ideally the relationship is one where Brevoy has some authority at the start of RRR, but for my game when this chapter starts it would be like Germany turning to France and offering rewards for France to resolve its own domestic disputes, that might spin right for a single hook but seems odd.if used too much.

@BornofHate- good point about magic items. My players already have a robust petition and information system and a well placed ring caught in the worgs teeth or stomach or an extra weapon on a troll they attack for blood could cover the reward and otherwise the task is the kingdoms business. Good point thanks.

Change the triggers for the quest, and the rewards slightly. For instance, residence are afraid of a large wolf pack, so request the lords to deal with it. No reward, but if they track them back to the den you find gear that includes a +1 weapon.

The only one that really seems big is the trolls. I changed this up by instead having the Lizardfolk come and request aid against Trolls that have threatened to destroy the villiage if they do not submit. (the PCs made an example out of the leader by casting call lightning and using every bolt on his corpse to prove a point about what will happen if they hunt humans again, but told them peace could be achieved.) I tied it into an event roll of new vassels, so the Lizardfolk joined their country. My players are doing well enough that they don't need the 10BP reward from Brevoy, but I turned the random cloths and supplies found in the troll cave into 4 BP to make up for some of that.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Caineach wrote:
PirateDevon wrote:

I get that JJ mentions Brevoy because my impression is that ideally the relationship is one where Brevoy has some authority at the start of RRR, but for my game when this chapter starts it would be like Germany turning to France and offering rewards for France to resolve its own domestic disputes, that might spin right for a single hook but seems odd.if used too much.

@BornofHate- good point about magic items. My players already have a robust petition and information system and a well placed ring caught in the worgs teeth or stomach or an extra weapon on a troll they attack for blood could cover the reward and otherwise the task is the kingdoms business. Good point thanks.

Change the triggers for the quest, and the rewards slightly. For instance, residence are afraid of a large wolf pack, so request the lords to deal with it. No reward, but if they track them back to the den you find gear that includes a +1 weapon.

The only one that really seems big is the trolls. I changed this up by instead having the Lizardfolk come and request aid against Trolls that have threatened to destroy the villiage if they do not submit. (the PCs made an example out of the leader by casting call lightning and using every bolt on his corpse to prove a point about what will happen if they hunt humans again, but told them peace could be achieved.) I tied it into an event roll of new vassels, so the Lizardfolk joined their country. My players are doing well enough that they don't need the 10BP reward from Brevoy, but I turned the random cloths and supplies found in the troll cave into 4 BP to make up for some of that.

Nice change up Caineach I like how you tied the Kingdom encounter rolls for a set encounter.


evilash wrote:

I'm having a small problem with the quests on the inside cover of this volume. Specifically the quests I'm not too happy about are Forest Drake Hunt and Northern Howls. The reason I'm not too happy about these two is that these quests are meant to be solved by the player's, right? But when you read the reward on these two it says that the kingdom has approved a reward for these quests. Since it's the players that run the kingdom this sounds to me like it's the players who have approved the reward and now it's them who goes after it. I'm probably going to change this somehow, but I'm not sure how yet, perhaps by a reduction in Unrest or something.

Anyone else having a problem with these quests, and if so what's your solution?

I know this is an old post (and someone else may have come up with this already), but I'm just reading through the thread now as I prepare to run RRR. My PCs put Sletvana in as Councillor, and Oleg as Treasurer. I figure that "the people" complain to their Councillor, who then goes home and says "Can we free up some funds to post a reward". The Treasurer then shuffles some accounts, puts some money aside, and the reward is posted without involving the PCs at all. If they get upset at this, then Oleg just stops posting rewards, and the PCs don't get paid.

I might go with the intent of making it Brevoy that offers the rewards, though. Probably depends how things are going when I get to that point.


I also had bounties posted by the Treasurer, who isn't any of my PCs. Hypothetically, them going after the bounties and collecting the gold might look like some kind of embezzlement when performed by a group with Unrest, but this group keeps it squeaky clean.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

I had Drelev and Varn pool together for the reward against the Trolls.

From this point onwards I've told the PCs the rewards will mostly be coming out of the kingdom's BP as they've reached a point where it's surplus. Put simply rewarding any adventurers willing to deal with whatever issue comes up (it helps my Players now have backup PCs).


Quick question for a few encounters. For encounters like "The Grove of The Grove of Tiressia" and "A Delicate Situation" should I award experience for the adventurers for finishing these without resolving to combat? Or just the EXP for the quests associated with them?


If they resolved the encounter without combat then I would give them the exp as normal as if combat had occurred. Otherwise the PCs will most likely begin to lag behind in level. Plus, if they worked their butt off for the peaceful solution, why not reward them?


I'm all about the rewarding, I'm just afraid that they will outpace the module if it wasn't intended for them to get experience from "peace full" completion of the encounter AND the experience from the quest they receive from said encounter.

I'll probably end up adding all the experience up and seeing if it gives the intended experience for the module. Unless someone chimes in within a week with solid evidence either way :p

I also don't want them lagging behind as well, so thanks for reminding me of that Talon Moonwalker.


In all fairness it doesn't much matter much either way, because you can always adjust the amount of random encounters that you give the party to keep them more or less on track. Therefore you make the call either way and then adjust the game to match the new pace. Personally I liked giving them the experience for those quests if they came to a diplomatic solution to a problem


KwwB wrote:
Quick question for a few encounters. For encounters like "The Grove of The Grove of Tiressia" and "A Delicate Situation" should I award experience for the adventurers for finishing these without resolving to combat? Or just the EXP for the quests associated with them?

IIRC, both of those associated quests are more or less incompletable if you kill everything. The XP and other awards for the quests should suffice.


KwwB wrote:
I'm all about the rewarding, I'm just afraid that they will outpace the module if it wasn't intended for them to get experience from "peace full" completion of the encounter AND the experience from the quest they receive from said encounter.

As long as you don't give more XP than they would have got from a non-peaceful solution, they can't end up ahead of assumed XP.

Taldor

Quote:
1. Officially, all minor items are worth 2 BP when sold, medium 8 BP, and major 15 BP.

can someone point me to this? is it in a book or FAQ on the site? ruled by James in a post some place?


Its in the Jon Brazzer books, which I promise you are worth getting. Having all the rules in one place, fairly easily findable is a wonderful thing

Taldor

ah, thanks. i'll look into his productions

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I had Drelev and Varn pool together for the reward against the Trolls.

From this point onwards I've told the PCs the rewards will mostly be coming out of the kingdom's BP as they've reached a point where it's surplus. Put simply rewarding any adventurers willing to deal with whatever issue comes up (it helps my Players now have backup PCs).

It's cool to hear how others have handled how the pcs get paid. I may do a combination of Brevoy and Their own Kingdom.


The big issue that I have with the adventure path is that rules as written, within a very short space of time the income that the PC's are generating can lead to insane numbers.

The kingdom I am running for example is just 5 years old, covers 51 hexes for a Control DC of 71 right?

Economy is at 118
Loyalty is at103
Stability is at 91.

They have perhaps 5 cities, with the capital having two districts. Rules have been followed meticulously, but the party already have 10 times wealth by level and its all legal. It also helps that they aren't having to play any consumption because of all the farms that they have.

Suffice to say, life is pretty easy for them. Supporting two armies and yet still no consumption costs whatsoever.

Most certainly though I would recommend getting one of the spreadsheets that are available here for use. It saves a lot of time.

Taldor

control DC is right. consumption should still be a pretty big number though. size + each city district + army costs.

is the party taking money from their treasury by BP withdrawal? i guess if they make their loyalty check with those big numbers they can get away with it. still, rulers that constantly take from their people w/o giving anything back might brood unrest that isn't reflected by the numbers. can always GM something in there - drought, famine, Redcap infestation...


They are indeed withdrawing money from the treasury through BP withdrawal, only every about 4 points a turn though, and therefore so long as they dont roll themselves a 1 they are ok. I have been using one the spreadsheets and basically because much of the land they have is being farmed, they genuinely have 0 consumption. I think they have about 30 farms, when you look at combining a farm with an apiary and so on, it does mean that they do not need a lot of room in order to be able to support everything that they have.

The routine is pretty much expand into hexes, farm straight away if they need to, otherwise spend the BP and time to harvest the wood and turn it into a plains. From there they then instantly put down a farm and a road and apiary. When you think that they are once more auto passing the economy checks to sell magic items, I think we worked out they could buy a waterfront each month just using magic item sales. Less if they use the normal economy rolls as well. All in all production averages about 60BP a month plus.

I have a copy of the spreadsheet somewhere, might need to work out the numbers again myself.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I double consumption costs in the winter. It takes that 50ish consumption and jumps it to over 100 for over 3 months. They end up with building spurts in the the spring and summer, and by fall, they start hunkering down. I also double the bonuses for Granaries in winter, so they've build a few of those in each town. Overall it's helped a) keep they're BP gains in check (my guys farm EVERYTHING as well), and b) provided a little seasonal variation, which can break some of the monotony.

Taldor

I was under the impression that developing a hex into farmland made it unavailable to be developed otherwise regarding buildings. After researching it, the Apiary and other such Non-City buildings do provide substantial benefits to the 3 rolls and decrease consumption.

I've been building my kingdom only off what is outlined in RRR, so these structures aren't present.

Back to their autosuccess though, big kingdoms are pretty much stable engines that require very little to keep them going, provided there isn't a state of war or natural disasters. The rules of a kingdom always seem to be the wealthiest and have the best stuff, so maybe skimming off the top is just how its done.

If the core mechanics allow for it, but the situation is becoming game-breaking, then I would DM fiat a little course correction. A big event that might pull them out of the city for over a month would vacate the leader roles. Or something that would cripple the kingdom and it would take a lot of resources to recover. No kingdom has been prosperous forever, and Empires tend to collapse after a period of time, thru one means or another.


True, pulling them out from the kingdom for more than a month would tend to make things harder for them, but the only issue is that once more, they are players that know their responsibilities, and will take the time to make sure that the kingdom would survive without them.

The most I can think to do really is to actually send some form of a preemptive strike against them from somewhere like Pitax and hope to high heaven that they don't manage to recover from it instantly and then go to crush Pitax (which they almost certainly could at the moment).

To be fair, I like the idea of tracking the months and making consumption change based on the season. The only reason I can think of for not using it that way is that I have always assumed that the people living in the kingdom are scavenging and the like for themselves during the boom times, and therefore consumption evens out at the current level of about 60 something. Its certainly an idea though.

War might be the best method. Although how I am going to run it when they are in just book 3 I do not know. Diplomats seeking gifts for the continued goodwill of the state that they represent might be an interesting avenue to explore.

Taldor

diplomats work.

they may bring an incentive with them, like promising exclusive trade rights (bringing stability and economy) if the PCs help them build a trade route. It could even be with Pitax.

along the way, there are worker injuries, supply shortages (stealing), and numerous set backs that just suck up BP like a black hole. big works like that are gambles and often have various unforeseen expenses.

could even then turn it on them that Pitax only suggested it to get a direct route to their kingdom, staging and ambush/preemptive strike, hoping to catch them in an economically weakened state.


I don't think rules for turning forests into farmland are part of RRR, although I could be wrong. One of the (slightly) limiting factors is that all the "good" farming country is either part of Brevoy or controlled by another kingdom. So after a point, you run out of what your farms can negate.


The wanted poster for Lily's Quest has a Cloak of Protection +1 as a reward. Is that correct or should it be a cloak of resistance +1?


It should be a cloak of resistance +1 - seems to be a kind of a mix up between the cloak and ring of protection +1.

Maybe, depending on WBL you could award either (ring is 2k, cloak is 1k).

Ruyan.

Andoran

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
XperimentalDM wrote:
The wanted poster for Lily's Quest has a Cloak of Protection +1 as a reward. Is that correct or should it be a cloak of resistance +1?

I went ahead and said it was just an unusual item, and let it stand as-is, but yeah, should probably have been a ring. I reasoned that if the cloak belonged to her father, maybe he was out adventuring in an earlier edition of D&D. ;)


I'm kind of new to Pathfinder and GMing so this may be a dumb question but in Rivers Run Red the Lonely Warrior is only +1 to hit. At this point my players are level 3 and have on average 18-19 AC. It doesn't sound like that encounter will be very interesting for them if the end monster requires a 17 on a D20 to hit them. His AC is also fairly high at 25 so I foresee a slap fest until someone randomly rolls high. Am I just missing something?


Greetings, fellow traveller.

This has been clarified up-thread alreay - maybe you find more information there.

Ruyan.


Awesome thanks! Sorry for missing the previous post.


Glad to be of help! Much good is to be found in these forums.

I hope you and your group will have a blast playing KM!

Ruyan.


Ixquic wrote:
Awesome thanks! Sorry for missing the previous post.

Heya,

Just to add to what RuyanVe said...
Take a look through that whole thread - there are quite a few errors to
stats which are pointed out & corrected. It's worth your time doing so.

Shadow Lodge

Jason Nelson wrote:

The rantings of Grigori

*snip*

Defeated the Stag Lord? I halfway wonder whether there ever really was such a man. Surely, they brought a scarred head with a stag mask on it, but what of the ruined keep where he held court with his men? Where is that castle now? Abandoned to the wilds! Even if this Stag Lord was killed, who rules there now? Probably another bandit worse than the first! Or some savage beast not even human.

So I finally get to reading through this thread and stumble across this post, and my Inner Evil GM immediately begins evil cackling. My group negotiated a truce with Akiniyi, a Drider I had placed in the tunnel spiders' den in Chapter One, and her main demand was that the Stag Lord's Keep be given to her, to end the territory dispute between her and her spiders and the worg Rannulf and his packs. I may steal this part of the speech verbatim. Well, minus the fact that they didn't bring back Staggy's head, just his helmet.

Also I can't get the idea out of my head of playing him as a clean-shaven Brian Blessed.


I was just revisiting RRR the other day and noticed that King Vesket of the lizardfolk (encounter N) was LARGE?
Is this a mistake or intentional - the paper mini set depicts him as a medium creature...

Any ideas?

Ruyan.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

I think that's a misprint.


Dunno. He has all what it takes in his stat block:

  • AC -1 size
  • Space 10ft. Reach 10ft.
  • to hit BAB +5_Str +6_ WF +1_ magic +1_ size -1 = 12
  • CMB BAB +5_Str +6_ size +1 = 12
  • weapon damage increased from 1d8 to 2d6 for trident; from 1d6 to 1d8 for javelin.

    Ah, well, I'll drop Crystal a line asking for adjustment of the paper minis.

    Ruyan.

  • Shadow Lodge

    Does he have someone dropping Enlarge Person on him?

    Otherwise he might well just be a big guy. I hadn't gotten to looking over that encounter in any detail yet.


    King Vesket is advanced. One of the things that can happen when a creature is advanced by adding HD is to increase their size. That seems to be what has happened here.

    The Bestiary suggests increasing the size category when the number of HD has been increased by half compared to the original; Vesket has 5 racial HD, while a normal Lizardfolk has 2 racial HD, which is well above the suggested limit for a size-increase.


    Ah, that's it! Thanks for the RAW, Are.
    Now, about that change of the paper mini... *goes looking*


    Greetings, fellow travellers.

    I need your help for staging the fight of my party against Stisshak (the will-o-wisp, encounter N) especially on how to utilise hit-and-run tactics in conjunction with its Natural Invisibility (Ex) ability.
    Since it refers to the spell invisibility, I assume it becomes visible on attacking a PC, correct?

    What I've come up with so far looks similar to this:

  • Stisshak starts off invisible
  • Surprise round: move up to PC, shock! Stisshak is visible and does scary face (no effect, since the Pally is there...)

    Then what?

  • Stisshak becomes invisible again (move action) and moves into a new position, using Acrobatics to avoid AoO if necessary?
  • Rinse and repeat?

    Ruyan.

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