Stolen Land (GM Reference)


Kingmaker

101 to 150 of 518 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Paizo Employee Creative Director

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Arnwyn wrote:
Karui Kage wrote:
You only get the free PDF if you're a subscriber to that line. If you just bought the book by itself, you don't get the free PDF.

??? His title does say he's an Adventure Path subscriber...

It should be in the "My Downloads" section of this website.

Aside:
Definitely agree with the others - some of the rewards are really wonky. The radish one is especially far too high. (WTF?!)

Here's my thinking on how I assign reward levels to quests.

Each quest in "Stolen Land" awards 400 XP for completion. This is the same amount of XP you get for defeating a CR 1 monster. Effectively, a quest in "Stolen Land" is the same, reward-wise, as a CR 1 challenge. According to Table 12–5 in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, a CR 1 encounter should award about 260 gp when on a Medium XP progression. So using that logic, I generally tried to make all the rewards for the quests in "Stolen Land" award something around that value. I skewed it a little higher in some cases where the actual challenge you have to complete for the quest includes multiple steps (Svetlana's Ring, for example, requires a lot of steps to complete). The Moon Radish quest is the easiest one to complete, so I kept it at a baseline of 250 gp as a result.

On top of that, I wanted the PCs to WANT to complete the quests. They don't necessarilly know at the start that they'll get XP (A lot of groups seem to think they only get XP for killing monsters), and a lot of groups aren't the type to really get deep into roleplaying or making friends with NPCs. By putting in a quantifiable reward, something that's relatively significant for the level the PCs are at, we can convince the PCs to go on that quest in the first place. And remember, the quests are more than just ways to give the PCs XP and loot—they're carrots you dangle in front of the PCs to encourage them to go out into the wilds. Once they go out into the wilds, they'll start finding NEW carrots to go after as well.

In your game, you know what motivates your players. We don't have that luxury, so we basically have to default to the default—gold and gear as rewards. And we have to default close to baselines for those rewards. In your game, if you know your players are the type to view the friendship of a local as a significant reward, you can instead of having Svetlana give them 250 gp as a reward simply adjust her attitude toward the PCs to a permanent helpful attitude or something like that. We just give you the inert body with an adventure path, after all; you as the GMs need to make it dance and perform for your PCs.

And yes... as Kingmaker continues, the XP awards and monetary/gear rewards for quests will increase as well. Once the second adventure's out, some quests give bonuses to your kingdom as well... we can't give out those types of quest rewards in the first adventure though, since it takes place before the PCs are expected to start building a kingdom.


While I can't speak for others, I think that's pretty much understood. I kinda figured that the gp amount had to do with metagame reasons.

It's probably better to reverse the criticism - think instead "250 gp is just fine for a reward... but don't tie it to a quest about radishes, for pete's sake".

So, if the reward isn't wonky, the job tied to that reward really is.


You are right. In fact when I looked at his post, but was running out the door, there were NO tags after his name.

-- david
Papa.DRB

Karui Kage wrote:
It does now... I could have sworn that when I replied it only said Chronicles subscriber.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Arnwyn wrote:

While I can't speak for others, I think that's pretty much understood. I kinda figured that the gp amount had to do with metagame reasons.

It's probably better to reverse the criticism - think instead "250 gp is just fine for a reward... but don't tie it to a quest about radishes, for pete's sake".

So, if the reward isn't wonky, the job tied to that reward really is.

Well, I guess I was hoping by calling them a specific KIND of radish, and thus implying that those radishes are rare, that it would have been a bit more high-adventure. ALSO: This is a low level quest. It's basically of the same caliber as "Go into my basement and kill the giant rats down there." It's not SUPPOSED to be something high and crazy. The PCs, by the time they get to the point where they're slaying dragons and taking on armies, should be able to look back and say, "Wow... we've come a long way. Remember when we had trouble picking radishes?"


I guess the big problem is that D&D has two economies, the economies for treasure and magic items, and the economies for everything else.

And there's a huge disconnect between those economies.

I mean, 250gp is like what, six months wages to a typical NPC? It's a huge sum.

But, to a PC, it's not enough money to buy a cure moderate wounds potion.

So, to make rewards 'sound right', the quests just about have to involve things that are useful for the PC/Magic side of the economy.

The radish quest might have worked better if the radishes were going to be resold by Svetlana to a crotchety old wizard who needed them as an ingredient for potions of Fox's cunning, for example. That would give the moon radishes an intrinsic value.

Ken


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Arnwyn wrote:

While I can't speak for others, I think that's pretty much understood. I kinda figured that the gp amount had to do with metagame reasons.

It's probably better to reverse the criticism - think instead "250 gp is just fine for a reward... but don't tie it to a quest about radishes, for pete's sake".

So, if the reward isn't wonky, the job tied to that reward really is.

At least you aren't chasing Fraggles & Doozers away from the radishes.

Let's see who shows their age & gets the reference.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
xorial wrote:
Arnwyn wrote:

While I can't speak for others, I think that's pretty much understood. I kinda figured that the gp amount had to do with metagame reasons.

It's probably better to reverse the criticism - think instead "250 gp is just fine for a reward... but don't tie it to a quest about radishes, for pete's sake".

So, if the reward isn't wonky, the job tied to that reward really is.

At least you aren't chasing Fraggles & Doozers away from the radishes.

Let's see who shows their age & gets the reference.

Is the Trash Heap a shoggoth or a shambling mound?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
underling wrote:
xorial wrote:
Arnwyn wrote:

While I can't speak for others, I think that's pretty much understood. I kinda figured that the gp amount had to do with metagame reasons.

It's probably better to reverse the criticism - think instead "250 gp is just fine for a reward... but don't tie it to a quest about radishes, for pete's sake".

So, if the reward isn't wonky, the job tied to that reward really is.

At least you aren't chasing Fraggles & Doozers away from the radishes.

Let's see who shows their age & gets the reference.

Is the Trash Heap a shoggoth or a shambling mound?

I always thought an awakened shambling mound.


xorial wrote:
underling wrote:
xorial wrote:
Arnwyn wrote:

While I can't speak for others, I think that's pretty much understood. I kinda figured that the gp amount had to do with metagame reasons.

It's probably better to reverse the criticism - think instead "250 gp is just fine for a reward... but don't tie it to a quest about radishes, for pete's sake".

So, if the reward isn't wonky, the job tied to that reward really is.

At least you aren't chasing Fraggles & Doozers away from the radishes.

Let's see who shows their age & gets the reference.

Is the Trash Heap a shoggoth or a shambling mound?
I always thought an awakened shambling mound.

Quick, anyone know the stats for a fraggle? That just gave me an idea... "Down in Fraggle Rock... Down in Fraggle Rock"


Are Fraggles Fey?

and on a related subject.....

Is Kermit the Frog an awakened Familiar?..Fozzie Bear a Bard?..we all know Miss Piggy is a Monk(HHHEEEEEEEE..YAHHHHHHH!!!)

Somebody please stop me before this goes to far


DM Wellard wrote:

Are Fraggles Fey?

and on a related subject.....

Is Kermit the Frog an awakened Familiar?..Fozzie Bear a Bard?..we all know Miss Piggy is a Monk(HHHEEEEEEEE..YAHHHHHHH!!!)

Somebody please stop me before this goes to far

Actually, I'm really curious how far you'll take this. Is that a seperate thread I hear calling?


James Jacobs wrote:
It's not SUPPOSED to be something high and crazy.

Oh, I'm pretty sure there's a middle ground.

kenmckinney wrote:
So, to make rewards 'sound right', the quests just about have to involve things that are useful for the PC/Magic side of the economy. The radish quest might have worked better if the radishes were going to be resold by Svetlana to a crotchety old wizard who needed them as an ingredient for potions of Fox's cunning, for example. That would give the moon radishes an intrinsic value.

+1

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I love this thread, and so far, Kingmaker is everything I want it to be. Is there some way ae can keep "official" answers summarized and centralized?


Chris Marsh wrote:
I love this thread, and so far, Kingmaker is everything I want it to be. Is there some way ae can keep "official" answers summarized and centralized?

Originally I did this (see the Rise of the Runelords), but it was kind of hard to keep everything in line. After awhile, things slip to odd page numbers. You're welcome to summarize if you like. Honestly, another thread would be nice, but I think a Wiki would be better.


Chris Marsh wrote:
I love this thread, and so far, Kingmaker is everything I want it to be. Is there some way ae can keep "official" answers summarized and centralized?

Did you hear that? Fraggles are official!!!

Liberty's Edge

I just re-installed Baldur'S Gate on my PC, to play it in order to get ideas (or in fact steal them) for sidequest.
Kingmaker rocks!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Dryder wrote:

I just re-installed Baldur'S Gate on my PC, to play it in order to get ideas (or in fact steal them) for sidequest.

Kingmaker rocks!

I wonder how many people are going to put a Noober character at the trading post. The NPC everyone wants to kill after a few run in with him.

Dark Archive

Heya!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I had an idea that could make the whole award for the moon radishes make more sense. My idea was to add the small tavern to Oleg's, but also have two small farms nearby that sold a lot of their produce to the trappers. Makes for a small community of people that are trying to get back to basics. That way Oleg's is even more like the Old West stagecoach stop in the middle of nowhere as well as a trappers trading post. Instead of making soup, the PCs are getting them for seed stock. THAT may actually be worth 250gp.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

2 people marked this as a favorite.

HA! Noober.

Good times.

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:

HA! Noober.

Good times.

Was the technicolor NPC who foreshadowed Neverwinter Nights actually named "Lord Foreshadow"?

Edit: Also love how Bioware dropped a Minsc/Boo reference into DragonAge's loading screen :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Tessius wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

HA! Noober.

Good times.

Was the technicolor NPC who foreshadowed Neverwinter Nights actually named "Lord Foreshadow"?

Edit: Also love how Bioware dropped a Minsc/Boo reference into DragonAge's loading screen :)

MINSC! wow there's a blast from the past.

now I want to find my discs to install that.


Theres been a discussion about everyones favourite tattooed ranger in another thread


1 person marked this as a favorite.

"Minsc and Boo stand ready."


I have started a blog of my conversion of The Stolen Land to the Savage Worlds system.

Reivers of the River Kingdoms

It would be great if people wanted to follow it, use the conversions, comment etc.


I have some questions about mounted exploration.

Are characters able to ride around on horses to explore forest, swamp and mountain hexes? or do they have to dismount and explore on foot due to the difficult nature of the terrain? Also, can characters ride a horse over a deep river and have it make the swim checks for them?


If anyone still has trouble with the radish reward here's how im running the hook. sorry i don't know how to make a spoiler link so i'll tone the wording down. Bokken usually deals with Oleg first so it's safe to say he gets some of his supplies from oleg. since moon radishes are rare Bokken could have asked oleg "if any trappers ever come across moon radishes i'll buy em off ya".


I have a question about the slurk.

slurk (Crown of the Kobold King 31)

so the only way to get the monster entry is to get Crown of the Kobold King 31? that seems a cheap shot lol. would rather have seen a new monster filling that entry contained in stolen lands book :(


RunebladeX wrote:

I have a question about the slurk.

slurk (Crown of the Kobold King 31)

so the only way to get the monster entry is to get Crown of the Kobold King 31? that seems a cheap shot lol. would rather have seen a new monster filling that entry contained in stolen lands book :(

But the complete stat block of the slurk is printed on pages 22-23 of the adventure, isn't that enough?


What I've done re: the Moon Radish issue is instead of 250gp in cold hard cash, I've allowed them a tab at Oleg's. It amounts to the same thing in reality, but it feels more natural than Svetlana handing over that much gold.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Zen79 wrote:
RunebladeX wrote:

I have a question about the slurk.

slurk (Crown of the Kobold King 31)

so the only way to get the monster entry is to get Crown of the Kobold King 31? that seems a cheap shot lol. would rather have seen a new monster filling that entry contained in stolen lands book :(

But the complete stat block of the slurk is printed on pages 22-23 of the adventure, isn't that enough?

It's actually better in that the slurk statblock printed in "Stolen Lands" is actually for the Pathfinder RPG, while the one in "Crown of the Kobold King" is for 3.5.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
RunebladeX wrote:
If anyone still has trouble with the radish reward here's how im running the hook. sorry i don't know how to make a spoiler link so i'll tone the wording down.

This thread is a GM's Reference, and shouldn't have to have Spoilers, IMHO.

However, to do a Spoiler tag, type

[ spoiler] words [/ spoiler] (without the space in the [])

You can also see other tags by clicking the "Show" button below the post box.

::Resume normal activities::


I was thinking of having Svetlana be something of an apothecary and have the moon radishes as a component for some alchemical item (Antitoxin, etc..) and have her give some to the PC's as a reward.


Are there/will there be more complete stats on significant NPCs like Oleg, Svetlana, Jhod and Kesten, or should we, as GMs, flesh out their stats, skills, feats, equipment etc as appropriate to the individual campain?

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Kamelguru wrote:
Are there/will there be more complete stats on significant NPCs like Oleg, Svetlana, Jhod and Kesten, or should we, as GMs, flesh out their stats, skills, feats, equipment etc as appropriate to the individual campain?

They usually don't stat out NPCs who are never intended to see combat. A class level is usually provided to give a good idea of what to stat up should some sort of fight occur as well as their skill level / experience.

There's a set word count for AP books and that's one thing pretty easy to trim down.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.

While I'm not all that thrown by the reward for the Moonradish quest, it occures to me that in a Frontiersman economy, they likely will have some good barter items they might otherwise never expect to sell or trade to the usual hunter crowd. Some alternatives to a cash reward that I think would be reasonable in these circumstances include:
[list]

  • A Masterwork Chain Shirt.
  • A (possibly damaged) Wayfinder.
  • A cracked Ioun stone - either Incandescent blue, adding to Survival, or Mossy, adding to Knowledge (Nature) checks - and a Tanglefoot Bag.
  • Two Everburning Torches and a Thunderstone.

    You get the idea. Just come up with one or more items of equal value that Svetlana and Oleg aren't likely to use or be able to ever sell/barter to the usual Hunter/Trapper crowd that come through, and you've got a more understandable reward for what a borderlands housewife could offer.

    On the point of why she's willing to put up something valuable (money or barter-wise), it is stated the Moonradish soup is to help Oleg with stress. I'm thinking he may be having trouble in the bedroom, and as they have no children, Svetlana is hoping an old folk-remedy will help fix things. People will put forward a lot of money and risk dangerous medical procedures to increase fertility.

    Of course, a sequel spin to this quest might be that Svetlana could be the Stolen Lands' first octomom...

  • RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

    There seems to be a mix up in the advancement track. In the chapter The March of Kings it says Stolen Lands Levels 1-3.

    However this says;

    Advancement Track:
    Characters should be 1st level when they begin “Stolen Land.” The sandbox nature of this adventure means that the PCs can encounter any of the locations at any level, although the more difficult encounters are placed farther to the south. By the time the PCs are ready to challenge the Stag Lord and his bandits, they should be well into 3rd level, and should end the adventure at 4th level.

    Since it's more thorough my guess is the Advancement Track is correct, just checking that won't mess with future encounters that assume you're 3rd level vs. 4th. Normally it's not a big worry since there's a set number of encounters but with this AP we can work in as many additional encounters as necessary to get to the correct level. Just not sure which one is correct...


    Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
    Scipion del Ferro wrote:
    Since it's more thorough my guess is the Advancement Track is correct, just checking that won't mess with future encounters that assume you're 3rd level vs. 4th. Normally it's not a big worry since there's a set number of encounters but with this AP we can work in as many additional encounters as necessary to get to the correct level. Just not sure which one is correct...

    Those both say the same thing. At the end of the adventure they're 4th level. But that happens after the climax, so it's not really part of this adventure at all.

    Paizo Employee Creative Director

    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Scipion del Ferro wrote:

    There seems to be a mix up in the advancement track. In the chapter The March of Kings it says Stolen Lands Levels 1-3.

    However this says;
    ** spoiler omitted **

    Since it's more thorough my guess is the Advancement Track is correct, just checking that won't mess with future encounters that assume you're 3rd level vs. 4th. Normally it's not a big worry since there's a set number of encounters but with this AP we can work in as many additional encounters as necessary to get to the correct level. Just not sure which one is correct...

    Yeah; what it's saying is that the PCs should finish out the first adventure at 3rd level, and they should be 4th level when you begin the next adventure. There's no mixup at all.

    RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

    Ok, I gotcha. My mix up was the March of Kings section said "for levels 1-3" which seemed to imply that the adventure end when they hit level three. It makes more sense if I think about it as they play through levels one through three during the adventure.


    I have a bit of a conundrum on my hands. My players were all up in airs about Kingmaker, and kinda went ahead and made characters before I read up on the adventure path, and made them with the 25 point-buy system. Now I have 5 relatively overpowered PCs, and taking stats away from them now seems to be as popular as telling a child that there will be no Christmas next year, since they feel like it is hard to get their characters like they want them even with 25 points.

    So I was hoping someone could offer some ideas of what I should do. For now, I am thinking of adding to the NPC stats, and/or increasing their HP. Or adding 1-2 creatures to every encounter.

    Other suggestions?


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    There are several ways of handling this.

    1) Hey guys, these are really overpowered for this Adventure Path, and will make my job as DM really hard. Can you please recreate them at 15 (20?) point buy?
    2) Lower treasure, especially magic items, to compensate for the above normal ability scores.
    3) Make the creatures have max hit points.
    4) Do nothing, and just play as is.

    Exceptional ability scores will only be a "problem" for the first 4 or 5 levels anyway so I would suggest using 1, and if not then 4, with a little bit of 2 and 3 thrown in for the lower levels.

    -- david
    Papa.DRB

    Kamelguru wrote:

    I have a bit of a conundrum on my hands. My players were all up in airs about Kingmaker, and kinda went ahead and made characters before I read up on the adventure path, and made them with the 25 point-buy system. Now I have 5 relatively overpowered PCs, and taking stats away from them now seems to be as popular as telling a child that there will be no Christmas next year, since they feel like it is hard to get their characters like they want them even with 25 points.

    So I was hoping someone could offer some ideas of what I should do. For now, I am thinking of adding to the NPC stats, and/or increasing their HP. Or adding 1-2 creatures to every encounter.

    Other suggestions?

    Silver Crusade

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    What Papa says, high ability scores have an impact at early levels, say up to fifth. Then everything gets more in line. They will have slightly easier time in first two parts of the AP, but later its should be OK.

    RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

    Heh, my RL Kingmaker group will be made using [4d6, re-roll ones, drop the lowest] for their stat array, it's what we always do. Max hit points and extra baddies works well.


    I have actually had my PCs use the 25-point system, because I wanted them to feel the fun of the epic scale of setting up their own kingdom. I don't have any real concerns that they're overpowered, just exceptional. Besides, I'll be throwing in a few extra quests and creatures.

    *shrug* I don't see it as a problem at all.


    Heh, what have I done to myself. I used one of the other suggested rolling Abilities methods, and that went a bit above good and evil.
    Check my Profile for the players. Check their stats!

    And I got 8 of them!

    Yeah, I will see how that turns out.


    So, had my first two sessions this weekend, and found the challenge level easily tweaked by adding HP to compensate for their high damage output and larger group (five players, and the cavalier almost counts as two characters with his mount at low levels), and giving the NPCs slightly more optimized gear (studded instead of regular leather armor, wooden shields for some bandits that are designed to be in the front line).

    I don't think I have to do much in later levels though, so I am not overly worried there. Only rework I need to do is some light optimization in terms of NPC spell lists and such, since the players are notoriously good at optimizing their characters, making use of every 3.5 sourcebook available unless I outright ban them.

    We are having great fun though, even though it is still on the easy side. The only fights that have been any challenge so far is the random encounters, but I think the Fort of the Stag Lord encounters will give them a run for their money.


    I've got a group of six getting ready to go through Kingmaker soon as we finish a friends Savage Tides campaign. I'm going to split the difference between High and Epic and go with a 22 point buy (one of my friends dice are notoriuosly cursed and he always ends up with below average stats).
    I think Ill add a couple of bandits to the encounter at Oleg's and a couple of extra at the Thorn river camp.

    Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

    One other thing you may want to consider is that the rules for kingdom rulership coming in KM #2 are in part based on stat bonuses - if you allow PCs to have extra-high stats, you might consider adjusting target DCs upwards a bit to compensate for that, since the base DCs have been calibrated for a party of lower-statted characters.


    James Jacobs wrote:
    stuart haffenden wrote:
    Which map should the PC have? Is there one as page 14 without the DM info but with the hexes for the PC to decide which area to explore?

    The PCs should start with a completely blank hex map. We give a blank hex map out in the free Kingmaker Player's Guide.

    We'll be releasing a poster-sized map of the Stolen Land regions that will have the hexes but no tags, but we're several months away from that product's release still.

    If I could nitpick Paizo for one thing, I am repeatedly disappointed in the area maps. Not in the quality as art, but in the sense that it always seems to take me time to figure out how they fit together and how to use them.

    Everything else in Pathfinder is effortless, but the maps are constantly something I have to try and figure out. I would like some kind of "using the maps" section with more instruction on how to use all these maps and how they fit together as a whole. In this specific case it's from the issue #31 and the players guide. I had to read all the comments to figure this out. I don't think having the gm/players wait for later issues/products is a good solution either. I'd hate to think of losing out on content, but I also hate not understanding how the maps are supposed to work and be used in the adventure.

    I don't think it should be so hard to figure out what in my mind is a very important part of an adventure. I love maps. Please improve this, Paizo!

    101 to 150 of 518 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
    Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Kingmaker / Stolen Land (GM Reference) All Messageboards

    Want to post a reply? Sign in.