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Stolen Land (GM Reference)


Kingmaker

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James Jacobs wrote:
Shane Walden wrote:

I would say yes. Pg. 11 of #33 says specifically that the soldiers stationed there were recalled to Rostland because of the increasing tensions between Rostland and Issia. These tensions, I believe, started after the campaign when Issia began to see Rostland's sponsored settling of the Stolen Land as a grab for power.

Shane

Yup; Rostland pulls her forces out of the fort, I suspect, at some point late during "Rivers Run Red." The EXACT time this event occurs is left to the GM to decide, as best fits the specifics of his or her Kingmaker campaign.

Just remember you still can't annex it without going to war with Brevoy.

Taldor

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I recently ran a marathon all-day session in which the players got to know all the bandits of the fort, eventually culminating in a massive combat that ranged across the entire fort when Dovan quietly marked the group as "jackals" and four simultaneous combats sprang up. While there were some dramatic moments, the big surprise was how hard the cleric worked to reason with the Stag Lord, even going so far as to agree to the Stag Lord's cruel terms for a parlay: one of the party allowing themselves to be struck down and left bleeding like the Stag Lord's men so both sides were on "even" terms. As this was when Akiros stepped up, the group was spared the possible loss of its healer but ended up fighting to protect Akiros as Stag Lord and lieutenant began a titanic battle that ended with Akiros sustained only by his rage and the Stag Lord at death's door. The Stag Lord trying to go down fighting after pronouncing his pride in Akiros being the one to end him was more than our cleric could take and he risked life and limb to heal the Stag Lord...just in time for the raging owlbear to escape.

Through much RP, the group won the day and earned the right to speak with the Stag Lord as his equals and perhaps even his betters. He is not drawn to the path of redemption as Akiros is, but his life has been a series of cruelties endured and then inflicted and while death might have been his secret wish, he is genuinely curious about these strange interlopers who risked everything to show him mercy and propose using his power center as the foundation for a true kingdom.

I'll admit, I'm partial to the character because of the brilliantly detailed backstory and personality, so I was secretly hoping the group somehow managed to win the day without killing the somewhat nihilistic, tortured man at the heart of the Greenbelt...but I never really planned for the possibility. This leaves one incredibly big loose end and I'm hoping the question has entered the mind of the writer:

What exactly can be done about the vengeful spirit of Davik Nettles if the Stag Lord does not die?

He can haunt their dreams and will never stop rising from the water to demand the death of his murderer...which is very cool and creepy but probably wasn't intended to give the players night terrors for the rest of the campaign if they zig instead of zag. Is there anything that can be done to destroy the tortured soul for good? Some form of atonement, unlikely as it might be, for the Stag Lord to attempt? Can they at least stop the nightmares?


Warforged Gardener wrote:
stuff about a tortured soul

Maybe returning him to life in some way would help. I know low level characters can't bring people back, but a quest to find an item that could would help.


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Warforged Gardener wrote:
As this was when Akiros stepped up, the group was spared the possible loss of its healer but ended up fighting to protect Akiros as Stag Lord and lieutenant began a titanic battle that ended with Akiros sustained only by his rage and the Stag Lord at death's door.

You let the boss fight an NPC instead of your daring heroes? Ewwww...

As for Davik, he should torment their new trade routes along the Shrike for eternity until he's put to rest. Ghosts don't play nice...

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Maybe have the PC's return with the Stag Lord and experience a pretty high CR haunt or combination of haunts? Culminating in this strange theme of forgiveness you've got going. Perhaps help the NPC develop a little.

Taldor

Jason Kossowan wrote:
Warforged Gardener wrote:
As this was when Akiros stepped up, the group was spared the possible loss of its healer but ended up fighting to protect Akiros as Stag Lord and lieutenant began a titanic battle that ended with Akiros sustained only by his rage and the Stag Lord at death's door.

You let the boss fight an NPC instead of your daring heroes? Ewwww...

As for Davik, he should torment their new trade routes along the Shrike for eternity until he's put to rest. Ghosts don't play nice...

It wasn't intentional, but it might have been for the best. The Stag Lord would have killed them all pretty easily. The party helped defeat him, but the combat had them spread out all over the fort. With ranged as his specialty, he would have picked off the melée players before they got near him. It wasn't a by-the-book boss encounter, but they had a lot of fun. The group seems more geared for RP than combat, which I hope won't get them killed when they face the giant owlbear or the trolls.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Shane Walden wrote:

I read all the posts but didn't notice if anyone actually mentioned the bear trap cost from Adventurer's Armory. The 50gp and 20gp amounts that were mentioned up thread were crazy off. The actual amount from pg 20 of Adventurer's Armory is 2gp.

Shane

My PCs just reached 7th level and they still carry those traps around to defend their campsite at night.


I'm using the 6 PCs adaptation for Stolen Lands and here's what happened in my first session :

The PCs ambushed the bandits and make really quick work of them. Two archers on the wall and a sleep spell amidst the commotion created by the scared horses didn't leave them much of a chance.

Three bandits failed their save while the fourth one that escaped was shot dead outside the walls of the trading post by an arrow to the back.

Happs couldn't outrun the group and was forced to surrender..

3 bandits including Happs were hung from the wall of Oleg's Keep while the fourth one agreed to lead the PCs to the Thorn River Camp. Happs wasn't very repentant and the others weren't quite convincing in their change of heart.. The paladin branding them all as evil didn't help either.

The PCs left on the very morning of the attack and camped out near the edge of the narlmarshes. I rolled a worg encounter and decided to add a few wolves..Some very lucky perception checks and a dwarf blowing in a signal horn stopped the encounter from happening.

The PCs followed the edge of the forest going towards the Thorn River. One more night sleeping in the wild without anything special happening this time.

The bandit was freed and told to run eastward in the plains of the Kamelands..The players gave him 5 gold pieces. Not sure what one can do with gold in the wild but that is another story..

The party followed the Thorn River and left the horses about an hour from the camp.

The halfling ranger was able to scout around the bandit camp and locate some of them around the campfire as well as one of the two watchtowers they were told about.

And now for the assault.. my players are sometimes really bad tacticians let me tell you..

They sent the halfling ranger alone to stealth around the camp and climb up the eastern watchtower while staying 100ft away in difficult terrain.

The ranger failed his climb check up in the tree by 1 point and fell after being shot by a bandit. The signal horn was used again and the bandits hurried up to gather their weapon and take cover behind the logs while the ranger took cover behind a tree. He then managed to escape and flank the bandits taking cover behind the logs.

Melee ensued with the half-orc sorcerer taking 16 points of damage from two arrows then getting healed by the bard to 1hp and critting a bandit for 38 points of damage with his greataxe..The barbarian laying death with his two-handed hammer. 18 constitution and 20 hit points is hard to stop.

An almost dead Kressle dropping the half-elf archer in the negatives with a full attack.. two bandits fleeing after the death of Kressle and one taken prisonner after he jumped out of the platform to escape, missed his acrobatics check and fell uncounscious from the fall.. Can't get enough fleeing bandits.

Good times for all involved.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
legallytired wrote:
His first session

So this seems to have gone fairly differently than my first session. The first battle when similarly. My group had 2 people in the supply room, 1 in the stables, and 2 on the walkway by the gate. Happs opened the door and was hit with a warhamer and shock (weather domain) and when unconcious. The rest of the bandits fought, but the gate was slammed shut so they couldn't escape. I rolled pretty ewll for the bandits, and managed to take down the druid, who was standing next to the Oracle, and dealt 8 with a single arrow to annother. I needed 17s to hit them though, so even with me adding 2 bandits they got destroyed. Only 2 bandits were actually killed, and the rest were interrogated. They are still alive, being forced to do manual labor at Oleg's or be shot dead.

Happs led them to the bandit camp, since it was clear he would be dead otherwise. The players snuck up to the edge of the camp when the dwarf rolled a whopping 7 on his stealth check. The PCs used an Obscurring Mist to avoid fire while they advanced, and the rogue stuck to the shadows and snuck arround still unseen. He poped out next to Kressel and hit her for 10 damage, and then annother 5 of an AoO that her readied action provoked. Then the dwarf came out of the obscuring mist and hit her for annother 10, dropping her before she got a second attack. The rest of the bandits were made quick work of, and the rogue and ranger hunted down and slaughtered 2 of the 3 that got away. The PCs were never hit, even with me using the full 8 bandits in camp when there should have only been 4.

Now the PCs have both Kressel and Happs working for them in a chain gang, with 6 other bandits.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

I just have a quick question, no, well, two quick questions.

The first question is this: The PCs have horses. Will they be riding the horses all the time as they are exploring the wilderness hexes, or will they be riding the horses about half the time in a day? I assume the horses would be walking not running nor cantering. Which movement rate should i use for determining the amount of time it takes to explore a hex, the horses movement, or the slowest PC's ie 20 feet to determine the amount of time it takes to explore a hex?

Also I think the PCs will want to live off the land while exploring. They would like to use their survival skills to feed themselves while exploring. How much will this increase the time it takes to explore a hex? thanks

As for Hexes i am asking for Plains hexes, Forest hexes, and Swamp hexes. Thanks.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I just have a quick question, no, well, two quick questions.

The first question is this: The PCs have horses. Will they be riding the horses all the time as they are exploring the wilderness hexes, or will they be riding the horses about half the time in a day? I assume the horses would be walking not running nor cantering. Which movement rate should i use for determining the amount of time it takes to explore a hex, the horses movement, or the slowest PC's ie 20 feet to determine the amount of time it takes to explore a hex?

Also I think the PCs will want to live off the land while exploring. They would like to use their survival skills to feed themselves while exploring. How much will this increase the time it takes to explore a hex? thanks

As for Hexes i am asking for Plains hexes, Forest hexes, and Swamp hexes. Thanks.

Horses move 50. PCs move 20 (slow guy). 40 and 50 have no real difference on exploring grassland, so if you drop them down to 40 for only mostly riding everywhere there is no big difference. Personally, I drop them down to 30 in forrests, but they stay at 40 for hills. Mountains I will probably give them 20, since the horses can't easily traverse them quickly. Swamp I will probably go with 30.

As for survival checks, when they are exploring I have it take no time. They encounter enough animals in the wilderness and are skilled enough that it shouldn't really change it. If they were riding somewhere, I would make it take time though, since then they aren't riding.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Caineach, thank you for taking the time to answer my post

Qadira

I'm planning to start a group of 5-6 players this weekend, and I'm doing things a bit differently with starting characters.

They will start as a random NPC class at -1000 experience. I've given the NPC classes certain bonuses that reflect the rules for NPC boons...for instance, the Commoner class gets a +2 bonus to Heal checks (+4 for disease and poison). Aristocrats get bonuses to Knowledge (Nobility) and Bluff. Things of that nature, just to keep things interesting. Likewise, I will be rolling for a random bane and a random boon. An example bane might be that the character is Clumsy and drops his weapon on a roll of 1 or 2. Or they could have the shakes and suffer a -2 to ranged attacks and -1 to ranged damage. A boon would be various bonuses to skills. Finally, they will get a campaign trait, and possibly (undecided on this) two of the character traits.

Here's the kicker though...I'm seriously thinking that I will have them use a 10 point buy for their stats. I want to keep the game challenging and deadly....otherwise, whats the point? :-)

Is this too restrictive?

Any feedback would be appreciated.


It's hard to keep it interesting when you play NPC classes. Random bane and boon seems also like a bad idea since they will interfere with character concepts. The dropping of weapons on a 1 or 2 is especially a bad idea.. -2 to attacks really? Not sure any players I know would have a good time.

They will be on par with the first bandits they will be fighting(Even worse according to the banes you wrote). Those bandits are supposed to be pathetic mooks so yeah..Good luck with that.

Qadira

After they gain 1000 exp, they pick a class. So, now they can have all the skills & perks of the NPC class plus the benefits of the class level. Which should actually make them a bit tougher than an average PC.


Caineach wrote:
Now the PCs have both Kressel and Happs working for them in a chain gang, with 6 other bandits.

Seems like my players are on the vindictive side hahahaha

Oleg didn't have to insist too much to have the bandits executed.. Seems somewhat on par with the situation. They're pretty cruel individuals even considering they're bandits. Seems like making them Neutral Evil is a bit much but I left it as it is.

Had a player joke about how they are as amicable as skeletons after the game when I told him they were NE.

Since I had two bandits run off once Kressle was killed, I'm wondering what they're gonna do.

Got some options :
- Run to the Stag Lord Fort
- Run never to be seen again
- Run to the other bandits that were out of the camp

Also, since the worg encounter was nullified and my players left their horses and donkeys one hour from the camp along the Thorn River, I'm considering a national geographic scene when they do come back..

Or perhaps the bandits are coming from the bridge to the south..Not quite sure yet.

Question about the Thorn River Camp:
I'm a bit confused since the map shows a bridge for the Thorn River Camp and there is no mention of any way to cross the river in the description..why would the bandits use the rickety bridge otherwise?


Rithralas wrote:
After they gain 1000 exp, they pick a class. So, now they can have all the skills & perks of the NPC class plus the benefits of the class level. Which should actually make them a bit tougher than an average PC.

If your group is like mine, they will go straight to the Thorn River Camp after the fight at Oleg's and won't have 1000 xp to gain a class level. I don't see the point in this transitional phase really. Yes it is more deadly, but it is more deadly because the PCs are wimps and this rarely a good way to show danger.

I'm running it for 6 players currently with a 15 point buy system and only 1 campaign trait per player. I'm rolling the dice in the open and it has been deadly enough so far even if I've got some pretty well created PCs mechanically speaking. If you got 5 players, keep the conversion and there is your deadly effect.

What I'm really trying to say is if you wanna go for a deadly effect, up the challenge and do not gimp the PCs.

Taldor

Rithralas wrote:
After they gain 1000 exp, they pick a class. So, now they can have all the skills & perks of the NPC class plus the benefits of the class level. Which should actually make them a bit tougher than an average PC.

It's an interesting idea, certainly prolongs the lower levels a bit. In the long run, those minor bonuses/penalties will smooth out. If I was doing it, I would keep the normal point buy. They'll be low level a little longer(-1000 XP), but the bonus from the NPC class level will be a little like your first +1 bonus. At higher levels, you're not likely to notice it...but when your stats never get high enough to qualify for 9th level spells, that's the sort of thing that will keep them below par forever. I think it's enough that they're not starting with normal class abilities. Just an opinion, for what it's worth.

You're not giving them feats with their NPC level, are you? Just max hit points and skills, along with whatever the class gets?

Qadira

Warforged Gardener wrote:
Rithralas wrote:
After they gain 1000 exp, they pick a class. So, now they can have all the skills & perks of the NPC class plus the benefits of the class level. Which should actually make them a bit tougher than an average PC.

It's an interesting idea, certainly prolongs the lower levels a bit. In the long run, those minor bonuses/penalties will smooth out. If I was doing it, I would keep the normal point buy. They'll be low level a little longer(-1000 XP), but the bonus from the NPC class level will be a little like your first +1 bonus. At higher levels, you're not likely to notice it...but when your stats never get high enough to qualify for 9th level spells, that's the sort of thing that will keep them below par forever. I think it's enough that they're not starting with normal class abilities. Just an opinion, for what it's worth.

You're not giving them feats with their NPC level, are you? Just max hit points and skills, along with whatever the class gets?

What do you mean "normal point buy"? It would be tough to gimp a player enough to make him unable to quality to cast 9th level spells...the requirement is a 10 + spell level in the applicable attribute.

And, no feats for the NPC class....

My thinking is that each little victory will be that much sweeter due to the increased challenge. Most PC's become really powerful around 6th level (as compared to the challenge) when using a 20 or 25 point buy in my opinion.

Qadira

legallytired wrote:

It's hard to keep it interesting when you play NPC classes. Random bane and boon seems also like a bad idea since they will interfere with character concepts. The dropping of weapons on a 1 or 2 is especially a bad idea.. -2 to attacks really? Not sure any players I know would have a good time.

They will be on par with the first bandits they will be fighting(Even worse according to the banes you wrote). Those bandits are supposed to be pathetic mooks so yeah..Good luck with that.

Why is dropping a weapon on a 1 or 2 "especially" a bad idea? I think it's fun and keeps things interesting. Yeas, a -2 penalty to attacks does suck, but it only applies to ranged attacks. Again, a unique bane for a single player...not the entire party.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

Rithralas wrote:
legallytired wrote:

It's hard to keep it interesting when you play NPC classes. Random bane and boon seems also like a bad idea since they will interfere with character concepts. The dropping of weapons on a 1 or 2 is especially a bad idea.. -2 to attacks really? Not sure any players I know would have a good time.

They will be on par with the first bandits they will be fighting(Even worse according to the banes you wrote). Those bandits are supposed to be pathetic mooks so yeah..Good luck with that.

Why is dropping a weapon on a 1 or 2 "especially" a bad idea? I think it's fun and keeps things interesting. Yeas, a -2 penalty to attacks does suck, but it only applies to ranged attacks. Again, a unique bane for a single player...not the entire party.

The player has a 10% per roll that he's going to be disarmed. That's pretty harsh. If the player ever gets iterative attacks, he's virtually garunteed to have his weapon on the floor every single combat, probably in the first couple rounds.

That soaks up a move action (and possibly AoO depending on how far you go with this). Unless this is the wizard with his crossbow, that's truly debilitating.

Qadira

Yes, so he is destined to not be the best melee fighter...but he may end up being fleet footed and gain a boon of +10' base speed. It forces the player to make some choices.....stay back and use ranged? Or, rush up and provide a flank? The game is not always about combat though. I suppose it takes a particular type of player to enjoy being challenged along that level.


Destined to not be the best melee fighter but randomly? If I understood your first post correctly. I don't see how this would add to the game at all. As I said earlier, they will suck more than the first bandit mooks.

Normal point buy is 15 points.

It isn't like being level 1 is devoid of challenges already. It is the point in the game where you are most likely to die with no way to come back. At level 1 you have at most one or two abilities and you want to keep it that way for an extra session or two? I'd be bored to death. I guess we don't have the same idea of a challenge.

The game isn't always about combat but it is still about combat in the end. Actually, most campaign journals of the AP you will read on these boards start with two combats that are kinda hard to avoid.

Taldor

Rithralas wrote:


What do you mean "normal point buy"? It would be tough to gimp a player enough to make him unable to quality to cast 9th level spells...the requirement is a 10 + spell level in the applicable attribute.

And, no feats for the NPC class....

My thinking is that each little victory will be that much sweeter due to the increased challenge. Most PC's become really powerful around 6th level (as compared to the challenge) when using a 20 or 25 point buy in my opinion.

Normal Point Buy = 15 points.

At 10, you can't afford better than a 16 in a single stat, which would be pretty crippling. Such a player could, conceivably reach 19 if they spent all their points on Int and added all their extra ability points and racial bonuses there(assuming they have the option of choosing where to put them). If they took 7's in one or two stats, it would be very harsh, but they could have a reasonably balanced character. So yes, it would be touch to gimp a player enough to make it impossible, but they would be gimped enough that choosing to one day have 9th level spells might mean their will saves would be painfully low or they wouldn't be able to carry more than a spell book without falling over(I know the encumbrance rules, it was hyperbole).

I don't disagree with your thinking. The harder the challenge, the sweeter the victory. But there is a point where the increased challenge completely outclasses the challenger, and several encounters in the AP are dicey enough to qualify, IMO. By all means, don't use 20 or 25-point buys, as I recall reading that the power curve in every AP is designed for 15-point buy parties of 4-5 on the medium XP track. I don't know if I'd go lower than that, since the starting stats are something they have to live with for a very long time. Or die with after a very short time, depending on how well they do.

No feats at -1 level is good. Keeps everything balanced later so they scale like normal players with a little extra baggage. I'd go so far as to treat starting saves like prestige saves and only use +1 or +0. Rather than being a "bonus" level, it becomes a proving level. If they can survive as nobodies, they deserve to one day rule the land. Their 1000 XP that brings them up to class levels is the experience that trains them to be what whatever class they choose, whether awakening their divine connections or honing their fighting skills. It's something I might steal for a future game.

Qadira

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@legallytired - Of course...randomly. That's just the old school gamer in me I suppose. I'm not a big fan of min-maxing to the nth degree so I can have the best, most optimized character for combat. I think these drawbacks/limitations do add the game a great deal...it's just not in the form of more bonuses and extra damage. It adds to the challenge, thus making each victory more rewarding....not just another group of mooks the party mowed through. <yawn> Just curious, how long have you been playing D&D? Do you play MMORPG's?

@WarforgedGardener - 10 point buy....one thing I didn't mention was that I would probably give each player (at some point in the game) rewards for good role-playing (not funny voices or dramatic dialog per se, but good solid tactics and use of the other non-combat aspects of the game...like actually perfoming like your avatar "should" based on the character concept and alignment). The rewards would be something like a +1 or +2 bonus to an attribute. They would see these no more than once or twice throughout their career though. All other stat increases would be per RAW. Of course, if things get too dicey, I can always increase their power level to suit....easier than taking power away after they have already had it. Besides, stat increasing items are available in the game, so this will just put a cap on the max stat increases before they get out of hand.


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Ad Hominem + straw man, really? Hahaha

To answer your questions:
I've been DMing for about 10 years 2e/3.0/3.5/Pathfinder, some CoC and Shadowrun also.

I never mentionned min-maxing, did I? Or that optimization is a requirement..? Because I am assuming you will be running the Kingmaker AP as written and that combat is indeed a part of this AP I am of course thinking that roleplaying is not important, right..

I don't think adding arbitrary mechanical subtractions will make playing a character more interesting. Drawbacks and limitations rolled randomly is just a bad idea..especially when unbalanced as it will frustrate players. How does -2 to attack add to a game?

Your fighter with a 10% to drop his weapon won't have any fun. So I guess you will be rolling this stuff before character creation.

Why is it a good idea to limit the choice of the players? Unless it is setting or plot oriented, I don't see the point.

As for the challenge, I disagree. -2 to a dice isn't a challenge it is an hindrance. Players won't remember that, they'll remember the scene and what spectacular things happened during the scene..not a dice modifier.

As if the PCs will automatically mow through the encounters if they don't have 10 point-buy and no class abilities. As you can read on this very board, many deaths occur in the Stolen lands. Lethality and danger are quite present and if they aren't you can only blame the GM.

I don't have much else to add. Please stop trying to dismiss people using MMORPGs, it is silly.

Taldor

I smell the makings of a thread-derailing debate that boils down to personal preference and inevitably veers toward personal insults. I think we've all thrown in our two bits on this. Maybe it's best we return to our respective corners and let the topic drift back to The Stolen Land.

So, how about them random will-o-wisps? Anybody do something creative with those? Or integrate the new creatures from the Bestiary?

Since I can't get an answer on what might have happened to the Dwarves in the Golushkin mountains, one of my players is exploring the abandoned Dwarven hold and encounters some Thawn squatters(the stronghold itself resembles the Mary Celeste). Anybody else do something like that?


I was a bit disappointed not to find any encounters with the Thawns during the first book so I've definetly been trying to cook something up with them. I don't have my books handy, where are the Golushkin mountains?

I guess I'm gonna design something in rough terrain where the Thawn will have plenty of places to hide..Somewhere where the PCs shouldn't feel comfortable(rock shrine in a swampy area with quicksand maybe) and where the Thawn will have the advantage of terrain. The sheer size of those monsters and the bad tactical situation should make the PCs flee hopefully ;)

My players are aware of the strenght of a will 'o wisp so I'm really gonna need to deceive them if I want them to run headfirst into one(especially at first/second level). I like to have them hang around the camp at a good distance, especially when the PCs are scared because of random sounds or because of a recent encounter/close-call with death. Gotta feed those poor will 'o wisps.

Qadira

Last comment on this:

A. I have some new players starting in this campaign that have been playing for around 10 years. I grew up on 1st edition through AD&D, stoped playing for many years, then recently learned 3.5, 4th, and Pathfinder.

B. The new players all play MMORPG's. As have I....way too many I'm afraid to say. I understand the general nature of those games. :-)

I know, for a fact, that a players age and his/her point of reference have a huge impact on what type of game they will enjoy. I was merely trying to determine your point of reference to gauge how my game might be accepted by a group of younger players. And, I think I've accomplished that, but I'm sorry if I offended you. Please accept my apologies.

Taldor

legallytired wrote:

I was a bit disappointed not to find any encounters with the Thawns during the first book so I've definetly been trying to cook something up with them. I don't have my books handy, where are the Golushkin mountains?

I guess I'm gonna design something in rough terrain where the Thawn will have plenty of places to hide..Somewhere where the PCs shouldn't feel comfortable(rock shrine in a swampy area with quicksand maybe) and where the Thawn will have the advantage of terrain. The sheer size of those monsters and the bad tactical situation should make the PCs flee hopefully ;)

My players are aware of the strenght of a will 'o wisp so I'm really gonna need to deceive them if I want them to run headfirst into one(especially at first/second level). I like to have them hang around the camp at a good distance, especially when the PCs are scared because of random sounds or because of a recent encounter/close-call with death. Gotta feed those poor will 'o wisps.

The Golushkin mountains are actually in Brevoy. During the first year of kingdom building, I wanted to give all the players something story-related to do. Since one of my PCs is a half-elf raised by a Dwarf, I used one of the NPCs from the Brevoy article, Toval, the Dwarf raised by House Garess, as the middleman sent by Brevoy. The two became friends so when everyone made their trip to Restov for unavailable gear, Toval asked the character if she would accompany him on a journey to investigate the fate of his Dwarven kin.


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Almost all my players including myself were at one point quite involved in MMORPGs. We're all in the mid-late twenties. I think most MMORPG players are looking for something else when they sit down to play a tabletop game but the mentality does tend to seep in somewhat. I could say the same about SNES games, namely the FF series. Gotta have a healer!

I disagree that age is a factor in this. Playstyles aren't determined by age, it really is a matter of preference/individual. The last campaign I ran was a mystery/investigating story in Ravenloft where not a lot of dice were rolled and I chose my players accordingly. Some of my players in the Kingmaker AP are less interested in the roleplay aspect but the others are steering them towards playing their character by simply interacting in-character.

It isn't about old-school versus young players in this case, it is about opinions. I've been staying away from most randomly generated stuff for a while now but I'm really enjoying the random encounters presented in Kingmaker. Still, random treasure and random ability points are sacred cows I sacrified long ago. I can't really understand the appeal of randomly-generated drawbacks and boons for characters since they will have an effect on the player's concept but hey, it's your game.

You might need to tone down the Thorn River Camp encounter if you only have NPC classes aboard. It can be deadly if the players aren't really effective tactically. After Oleg's and the Camp, my players had about 500-600 xp.(6 players using the 6 PC conversion)

And no offense taken!


Good idea, Gardener! I got a dwarf wizard prospector from House Garess on board so consider it stolen. Seems like a good way to spice up the one year down-time to use some character specific stories.

Taldor

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Rithralas, talk to your players about this. I'm running the campaign using 15 point buy with 6 players (increased challenge ratings for 6 PCs), and I am having to pull punches to avoid TPKs. -1000 XP will almost force your PCs to wander around in the Greenbelt, hoping to hit random monsters to "ping up" before taking on the Stag Lord.

Lower stats, random curses, lower levels may make things challenging, but it will probably be overwhelming unless you players are supremely tactical. If you're going to include weather effects for spring adventuring, the party will be at a HUGE disadvantage. Also, low stats will encourage even more min/maxing to be combat effective than having enough stat points to make well-rounded characters. Your character creation guidelines may be counter-productive to what you are trying to acheive.

Good luck with the adventure, don't bite off more (or less) than you can chew.

Cheliax

where and how

i just wonder if its a place who tell where in stolen land the place are just like the the kameland are north of waht and all like this more easy to figure where are all location ty for your answers


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
dunrosh wrote:

where and how

i just wonder if its a place who tell where in stolen land the place are just like the the kameland are north of waht and all like this more easy to figure where are all location ty for your answers

I think I can almost understand what you are asking. I'm guessing english isn't your first language and this is output from a translation site. From what I can tell, you are asking which other countries boarder the Stolen Lands.

The Stolen Lands are in the River Kingdoms. They have Mivon to the south, Pitax to the south west, and Brevoy and Numeria to the north.

Cheliax

your right im not that good in english but what i need to know is in the stolen land where is dunsward and all location like east of oleg post or the slough are south of brevoy thing like this


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
dunrosh wrote:

your right im not that good in english but what i need to know is in the stolen land where is dunsward and all location like east of oleg post or the slough are south of brevoy thing like this

I'll try my best, starting in the northwest where the Stolen Lands border with Numeria.

The Glenebon Uplands contains the Branhtlend Mountains in the northwest bordering with Numeria, the Thousand Voices forest sits on the southwestern edge of the mountains. Then east to southeast are the Glenebon Uplands which consist of hills and plains. Pitax is at the southern end of this area.

Southeast of this section is the part called the Slough which is dominated by the Hooktongue Slough in the east-souteastern portion of the map.

Southeast of this section is the Greenbelt. The Narlmarches are the forested area that touches the Hooktongue Slough on the western side. The Kamelands are the hills in the southeastern portion of the Greenbelt.

Finally, the southeastern section of the Stolen Lands, the Nomen Heights, borders Iobaria on the eastern edge and Brevoy on the northeastern edge. It contains a smaller mountain range called the Tors of Levenies in the extreme southeast. The Dunsward are plains that flow into Iobaria in the east.

Best bet is to get the world maps from the community use section of this website. Find restov in the extreme northeast of the world map, The forested area due west of Restov is the Narlmarches. The forest a bit more to the west of Restov is Thousand Voices.

Cheliax

ty that a good explanation


Greetings, fellow travelers.

I just noticed, that there seems to be a consistent typo in #31, #32 and #33 concerning the river Gudrin/Gurdin.
While on the maps the river is named Gudrin, the text (see entry S in #33) and also some encounter sites (#32, site L) spell it Gurdin.

Only a mere nuisance, but it got me rather confused.

Ruyan.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber

I found something that might add some realism into the exploration also. It is a random weather generator. I'm going to generate a month's worth of weather at a time and write it in on the excellent calendar another user on the board provided in the Kingmaker Handouts thread. The weather generator is available here:

http://www.mathemagician.net/Weather.html

Someone mentioned that the Stolens Lands sit about where Calgary, AB Canada is latitude-wise. Should make for some cold early months.


Hmm, I just posted a query regarding Brevoy and the Surtovas over on the Campaign Setting thread (*Link*).
And on a much less serious (punctuation) note, on page 65, 'reigns as unofficial "queen," ' should be 'reigns as unofficial "queen", ' ? ;)

Andoran

Please note:

Episode #008 of Chronicles: Pathfinder Podcast covers Kingmaker 1: Stolen Land in great detail, featuring interviews with Ennie award winning author Tim Hitchcock and reviews of the Kingmaker Player's Guide and the module, Stolen Lands.

The podcast special for Stolen Lands is available for download here here.


My players will be facing the Stag Lord next week after exploring pretty much everything that the charter covered.

I can't wait.

Qadira

Just starting Kingmaker, got my second session this weekend, and I gotta say that it is looking like it is going to be fun (though if the Obit thread is any indication, it'll be lethal), but there are two questions/concerns that I do have.
1) In the Obit thread, there was A LOT of mentions of Reincarnates at pretty low levels that I couldn't figure out where they got them from; Is there a friendly 7th level druid or scroll that I missed?
2) Does anyone have any advice for running Kingmaker with an 8 man group? I have already beefed up encounters and the like, but additional advice would be nice.


AlanM wrote:


1) In the Obit thread, there was A LOT of mentions of Reincarnates at pretty low levels that I couldn't figure out where they got them from; Is there a friendly 7th level druid or scroll that I missed?
2) Does anyone have any advice for running Kingmaker with an 8 man group? I have already beefed up encounters and the like, but additional advice would be nice.

1- Not sure on this one, and I don't have the books in front of me.

2- An 8 person group? Wow. Well, double up the encounters, or at least beef them up some. My fiver group tends to walk over a good deal of the encounters, but I've some very seasoned players in with the newbies. The kingdom-building aspect won't rely as heavily on NPCs for the various roles, but that should be fine. If you double-up on the XP for baddies, I'd keep the same XP for hex-ploration (25 per) and quests, just because it's easier. The AP lends itself well to people not making game except perhaps in certain key locations later on. I'd suggest taking a look down the boards, as there are other large-person groups out there with some good (read: better) advice. But be warned that, with such a large group, if you expand the # of baddies, combats will take a while, so you might not get to as many encounters in a day as a smaller group would.

Just my thoughts. :)

Qadira

ChrisO wrote:
AlanM wrote:


2) Does anyone have any advice for running Kingmaker with an 8 man group? I have already beefed up encounters and the like, but additional advice would be nice.

2- An 8 person group? Wow. Well, double up the encounters, or at least beef them up some. My fiver group tends to walk over a good deal of the encounters, but I've some very seasoned players in with the newbies. The kingdom-building aspect won't rely as heavily on NPCs for the various roles, but that should be fine. If you double-up on the XP for baddies, I'd keep the same XP for hex-ploration (25 per) and quests, just because it's easier. The AP lends itself well to people not making game except perhaps in certain key locations later on. I'd suggest taking a look down the boards, as there are other large-person groups out there with some good (read: better) advice. But be warned that, with such a large group, if you expand the # of baddies, combats will take a while, so you might not get to as many encounters in a day as a smaller group would.

Just my thoughts. :)

And it may end up being 9 (it is college club and there are surprisingly few DMs around)...

You would think that combat would take longer, but I have more than a couple of optimizers in the group... And two of them are turning into mounted combat monsters. I mean the first session got through three encounters in like three hours plus a bunch of RP because of the freaking crits...
When they were fighting those first bandits, they told them to get lost and then proceeded to bisect Happs (lucky crit that got him below Con, and the Abdominal Slice crit card) and then skewered another bandit with a lance charge. So yeah, I don't worry about combat being too long; just too short and too easy.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber
AlanM wrote:


2) Does anyone have any advice for running Kingmaker with an 8 man group? I have already beefed up encounters and the like, but additional advice would be nice.

Split the party in two, and let them explore as they would in a West Marches style campaign. Group A one week, Group B the next. All paths lead to madness.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

AlanM wrote:

Just starting Kingmaker, got my second session this weekend, and I gotta say that it is looking like it is going to be fun (though if the Obit thread is any indication, it'll be lethal), but there are two questions/concerns that I do have.

1) In the Obit thread, there was A LOT of mentions of Reincarnates at pretty low levels that I couldn't figure out where they got them from; Is there a friendly 7th level druid or scroll that I missed?
2) Does anyone have any advice for running Kingmaker with an 8 man group? I have already beefed up encounters and the like, but additional advice would be nice.

As for 1, don't know how everyone else has been explaining it, but after looking at my kill-ratio through KM1, I decided to re-introduce a mid-level Witch npc from a prior campaign to offer his services in the reincarnate department in return for a nice retirement plan (he HAD been shooting for the Magister post, but the players made him ruler instead). In return he is usually willing to bring court-members back from the dead for cost-of-resources (and an occasional cut in loot).

As for 2, I had two groups for a while, one of which was about that size (maybe a bit bigger) running through the AP at the same time. The bigger party had it about as rough as the smaller. Some fights took longer and were a walk-through, but wandering monsters were always the great equalizer (multiple trolls & will-o-wisps are nasty, yes, but the periodic bout with packs of wild boar & river elk seemed to be particularly memorable and well balanced). As for group management, I find farming out some of the GM responsibilities takes some of the load off: one player keeps track of initiative for me, another spot-checks rules when needed. Another thing I do is allow players to run monsters when they're not otherwise able to participate in the fight (either because their character isn't there or has been dropped) - it really seems to endear the monsters to them. We had one pack of wild dogs in Riddleport (SD AP) they ended up naming all of, thanks to that, and were always rooting to survive.


Greetings, fellow travellers.

Quote:

1) In the Obit thread, there was A LOT of mentions of Reincarnates at pretty low levels that I couldn't figure out where they got them from; Is there a friendly 7th level druid or scroll that I missed?

2) Does anyone have any advice for running Kingmaker with an 8 man group? I have already beefed up encounters and the like, but additional advice would be nice.

Concering 1) I used Jhod Kavken for that matter. I advanced him to be a 10th lvl druid. He plays a far more important role in may campaign anyway, since he is one of the guardians of the lands and allied with the "good" fey.

Concerning 2) I agree with Dudemaster. Having 8 players demanding attention from you as a DM can be quite stressing in my experience. The downtime for the players not being in the spot light is quite high and will get people bored in no time, creating diversion or strife.
Also, sooner or later the group will split up anyway in a kind of "organic" way: they all will stay in the campaign, but 2-4 people will set out to explore part x of a dungeon, and the rest will do the same for part y, giving you effectively two groups.

Ruyan.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
AlanM wrote:
ChrisO wrote:
AlanM wrote:


2) Does anyone have any advice for running Kingmaker with an 8 man group? I have already beefed up encounters and the like, but additional advice would be nice.

2- An 8 person group? Wow. Well, double up the encounters, or at least beef them up some. My fiver group tends to walk over a good deal of the encounters, but I've some very seasoned players in with the newbies. The kingdom-building aspect won't rely as heavily on NPCs for the various roles, but that should be fine. If you double-up on the XP for baddies, I'd keep the same XP for hex-ploration (25 per) and quests, just because it's easier. The AP lends itself well to people not making game except perhaps in certain key locations later on. I'd suggest taking a look down the boards, as there are other large-person groups out there with some good (read: better) advice. But be warned that, with such a large group, if you expand the # of baddies, combats will take a while, so you might not get to as many encounters in a day as a smaller group would.

Just my thoughts. :)

And it may end up being 9 (it is college club and there are surprisingly few DMs around)...

You would think that combat would take longer, but I have more than a couple of optimizers in the group... And two of them are turning into mounted combat monsters. I mean the first session got through three encounters in like three hours plus a bunch of RP because of the freaking crits...
When they were fighting those first bandits, they told them to get lost and then proceeded to bisect Happs (lucky crit that got him below Con, and the Abdominal Slice crit card) and then skewered another bandit with a lance charge. So yeah, I don't worry about combat being too long; just too short and too easy.

Hand one of the other players you think will be a good GM the books and tell him to run it too. Then you have 2 groups of 4 running arround, you can compare notes and chat with a fellow GM, and your players will get to brag about their awesome ideas to the other group.

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