Expanding Legacy of Fire (Spoilers)

[Gray]

I've been lucky in that I have one group that is half-way through this AP, and another that is about to start soon. For the 2nd group, I've decided that I'd like to expand upon things a bit, and maybe use a slow XP progession.

However, it has been a while since I've written up monsters with PC stats. Following is Hakkur, the leader of the Three Jaw Tribe. I didn't have stats for a Flind so I just used the stats for a gnoll/barbarian. Does anyone see any major glaring errors?

Hakkur CR6
XP 2,400
Male Gnoll Barbarian 5
CE Medium Humanoid (gnoll)
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60ft.; Perception +2
Defense
AC 18,
hp 58 (2d8+2) + (5d12+15)
Fort +11, Ref +3, Will +5
Offense
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Greataxe +11/+6 (1d12+8, x3)
Ranged Spear +7 (1d8+5)
Statistics
Str 20, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 6
Base Atk +6; CMB +11; CMD 22
Feats Power Attack, Cleave, Iron Will, Improved Initiative
Skills Acrobatics +9, Climb +13, Intimidate +6, Perception +11, Survival +9
Languages Gnoll
Environment warm plains or desert
Combat Gear Great Ax +1, Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds Other Gear Studded Leather Armor +2, , Cloak of Resistance +1, Ring of Protection +1

Special
Raging (7 rds per day)
AC 16, Melee Greataxe +13/+8 (1d12+11), Will +7

[delabarre]

Gray wrote:

However, it has been a while since I've written up monsters with PC stats. Following is Hakkur, the leader of the Three Jaw Tribe. I didn't have stats for a Flind so I just used the stats for a gnoll/barbarian. Does anyone see any major glaring errors?

Your math is slightly off on hit points, should be 2d8+6 + 5d12+15 = 62.

Assuming you are using PFRPG:

For a CR6 you really want/need to make him a 6th level barbarian (CR = 1 (for gnoll) + 5 (for Bar6)). If you compare him against the table on Bestiary p. 291 you will see that he is lagging for CR6.

Also consider upgrading his armor + shield to get his AC up to about 20 or 21.

[Gray]

delabarre wrote:

Your math is slightly off on hit points, should be 2d8+6 + 5d12+15 = 62.

Assuming you are using PFRPG:

For a CR6 you really want/need to make him a 6th level barbarian (CR = 1 (for gnoll) + 5 (for Bar6)). If you compare him against the table on Bestiary p. 291 you will see that he is lagging for CR6.

Also consider upgrading his armor + shield to get his AC up to about 20 or 21.

Thanks - The hit points are on the low side, and should probably be bumped up.

I'm not sure about the CR calculation though. According to the PFRPG section on adding class levels (pg. 296 to 297), this should be a CR6 (Gnoll CR1 plus Barbarian 5 = CR6). A gnoll counts as a combat oriented role so any class levels in barbarian would be added to the existing CR of 1. I'm especially asking because I hope to stat out Hakkur's sister when I have some time. And to make sure I'm not misreading something.

[delabarre]

Gray wrote:

I'm not sure about the CR calculation though. According to the PFRPG section on adding class levels (pg. 296 to 297), this should be a CR6 (Gnoll CR1 plus Barbarian 5 = CR6). A gnoll counts as a combat oriented role so any class levels in barbarian would be added to the existing CR of 1. I'm especially asking because I hope to stat out Hakkur's sister when I have some time. And to make sure I'm not misreading something.

I think that calculation is for situations where the creature CR is greater than the class levels (like an efreeti with levels of fighter). For a CR1 gnoll I think the humanoid-with-class standard (CR = PC class level - 1 OR NPC class level - 2) should apply.

But that's just my $0.02.

[Winterwolf]

This is off of the exact topic, but the title sounded right, and as I didn't want to start a new thread.... I figured I'd put my question in here.

I have this AP, I'm planning on running it soonly, and franticly spending the last few days of summer reading these books as fast as I can (including the book on Chilax and the Campaign book (Golarian CS, not just the AP book that is). One of my players is rather old school D&D, and from what I've told him (and what he's gathered from reading the main book) he wishes to continue after the AP on to take out the leadership of Chilax... I don't know if I'm cool with that, but I'm pretty big on letting the PC's do wicked earth shattering and world changing things. So I'm not opposed to doing it, either.

However, do the folks here who have ran it think that it can be modified that way... and how would you go about developing that tangent... Also if this were to be done, I'd obviously be changing Golarian considerably... I like continuing later adventures in the same world with the effects from the last major story arc. How would I go about this "new world" Or fast forward a bit, and have a new group have shown up and taken things back to the way they were...

I guess I'm just looking for people to spitball with, because obviously I can't talk to my players about this. And I'd like to put some of the stuff into the AP as it's building, and not tacked on at the end.

[Ryzoken]

Note that the Bastards of Erebus AP takes place in Cheliax, so doing earth shattering things there could muck that AP up severely.

That aside, LoF ends on an unfinished note (or so some feel) as the elemental terror isn't permanently obliterated, merely postponed indefinitely. You could extend LoF's storyline to include a possible way of destroying Xotani's Heart, placing the adventure location in Cheliax's demesne and setting the administrators of Cheliax against the players as a matter of politics.

Cheliax's rulers might want to prevent Xotani's Heart's destruction for a number of reasons:
* new weapon by which to expand their empire
* distraction, to keep heroes outside of Cheliax
* devotees of Rovagug
* matter of national security (can't let CR 20+'s in our borders!)
* maybe they just plain don't like the players?
* failed diplomacy rolls/scene between PC's and bureaucrat

Essentially, read The Final Wish, and consider how much the players will want to destroy Xotani's Heart. Nefeshti should prove a sufficient campaign hook to pull this off.

EDIT: removal of Cheliax's rulership just means a new form of government gets established. Depending on how you want your game to end, this could be the pc's themselves, or you could bring in a new faction that's even worse than the old rulers (and smash the carp out of the PC's, perhaps setting up a Bastards of Erebus campaign with the heroes that step in after the high level heroes failed?)

[Winterwolf]

I thought about some of these, not all, as I don't know the outcome yet... but I guess it's just I'm kinda iffy on trying to take out the establishment, when it looks like Asmodius is kinda iffy on doing that... I figure they are pretty well concreted in place. lol.

[F33b]

I'm totally confused, how does Cheliax enter into Legacy of Fire? It's a half continent and a full AP (Council of Thieves) away.

That said, granting PC's property rights after LOF #5, and having the Caliphate ask the PCs to defend those rights, could extend the AP through the City of Brass indefinitely.

[Lord Pel]

F33b wrote:

I'm totally confused, how does Cheliax enter into Legacy of Fire? It's a half continent and a full AP (Council of Thieves) away.

That said, granting PC's property rights after LOF #5, and having the Caliphate ask the PCs to defend those rights, could extend the AP through the City of Brass indefinitely.

Methinks Winterwolf submitted this to the wrong AP section. :)

[Winterwolf]

HA!!!!!!!!! nice. I think I did too... damn. I must have had my head up my rear end.

Sorry guys.

[Lord Pel]

Winterwolf wrote:

HA!!!!!!!!! nice. I think I did too... damn. I must have had my head up my rear end.

Sorry guys.

No worries, mate. It happens. :^)