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RPG Superstar 2015

Haga


Round 2 - Top 32: Create a monster concept

1 to 50 of 100 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Dementrius

Haga
Description: A haga is an enormous, double-headed eagle, twenty feet long, which carries the scent of sandalwood over its mountainous dominion. This raptor is golden feathered and majestic in flight, swooping to devour sentient prey. Other victims serve as writhing components for the haga’s haruspicy rituals, where the raptor divines future events in the spilt entrails. The haga’s alien mind is keen but immoral, fearless and without scruple, knowing perfectly the consequences of its actions and even the time of its own death.

Despite the danger, some foolish emperors, petty tyrants and generals are desperate enough to request a haga’s council, yearning for unnatural knowledge and willing to pay in blood. Both heads of the creature speak simultaneously during these correspondences, one lamenting woeful visions, the other describing auspicious omens. Hagas find delight in arranging historically critical moments, patterns across mortal generations, and the confluence of improbable but poignant disasters. The peak of haga artistry entails choreographing wars and predicatively composing flawless abyssal runes or infernal litanies from the dying soldiers and falling battle debris.

Powers and Abilities: Hagas are physically powerful, able to snatch creatures as large as a bull in their talons before tearing the creature apart with their razor-sharp beaks. Their eyesight is keen like most birds of prey and can pierce magical deception. Hagas are ageless creatures of cruel omens and dread fate, able to divine future events, see distant places, speak with the slain, and answer almost any question by reading the splay of the flesh and splatter of the blood. This insight also makes these raptors deadly in combat, receiving precognitions into their opponent’s strikes and maneuvers before they occur. Hagas draw power from dying prey when they perform their rites and can manipulate an enemy’s fate through potent curses.

Pathfinder Creative Director, Frog God Games

Haruspicy??? I had to go to Webster's for that one. It didn't identify that as an adjective form of haruspex, but anything that involves asome form of use of the word haruspex is cool in my book. This guy is a little like the personal sphinx for the Four Horsemen but with the appetite of a roc. It wouldn't work in just any old adventure, but you could certainly create an awesome adventure or even a whole campaign around it. Very nice, Mr. Posener.

Contributor

I'm not quite sure what to make of this creature. It's a giant double-headed eagle who can read the future in a creature's organs, so I'm not sure if you're expected to attack it or just talk to it--or what its agenda is. Immortal, yet there is more than one of these (plurals many times in the description). So is this a battle encounter? A plot device? Would it ever intervene on behalf of the PCs? Would it attack the PCs because they inadvertently interfered with its plans? Does it have plans? It "choreographs" things, but to what purpose?

Paizo Employee Editor-in-Chief

This guy feels very mythological to me. He doesn't seem to be from a quick search - which is kind of a shame to my mind, a really obscure mythic creature would have won major points with me - but he still captures that vibe of believable strangeness that so many real world creatures exhibit.

I agree with Sean that the creature's role seems a little muddy, but this feels like an awesome roleplaying encounter. Like, finding out after a long encounter that the Sage of the Screeching Cliffs is actually one of these things. Kind of neat.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

Initial Impression: It’s like a sphinx meets a peryton meets a roc. Strange indeed.

Concept (name, overall design choices, design niche, playability/usability, challenge): B
The name throws me. It’s like a hag and a naga. It just doesn’t work. Normally I say that monsters are the conflict of fantasy gaming and that is their main value. Sometimes, though, a monster fills the role this creature fills—the strange and mythic creature of legend. This creature strikes me as very rare, even in a fantasy setting. It has as much of a roleplaying value as it does a combat value. Risky design choice. But fantasy gaming has its share of such creatures, though they tend to be mythological beasts that seem to be required to be a part of the game (sphinx, for instance) and don’t see much use. My fear is this creature would play the same role. Neat for a story element, but not much use as a creature. Its more of an NPC than a monster. But yet, it is an interesting concept and you dealt with it well.

Execution (quality of writing, hook, theme, organization, use of proper format, world neutral, quality of mandatory content—description, summary of powers): B-
Candidly, the writing was a bit over the top. I think you could have ditched some of the eloquence for some more actual details. You loved your own idea and I don’t think you developed it as well as you could have.

Tilt (did it grab me, do I want to use one in an adventure?): B
I like this creature in the same way I like a roc or a sphinx—I think they are cool, but I don’t remember actually ever using one in a game.

Overall: B
Because of the unique niche you tried to fill and because you succeeded in filling it, I am going to go with your creature despite my reservations.

Recommendation: I DO recommend this creature advance, but be very careful about future design decisions if you do advance.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

I knew what a haruspex was, but that is because my Ars Magica-fu is strong.

What? You mean not everyone knows what to call the guy who tears out the entrails of a creature and divines the future from them?

Sheesh, I tell ya.

...

That aside, it'd work well as a plot device (oracle on the mountain) or deus ex machina, maybe a quest-giver, but it's got to be a planned encounter. This is a fun monster but a tough one to develop any sympathies for-- after all, it even knows when it will die.

-Ben.


I think this creature is pleasantly creepy and highly versatile.
I like the divination via entrails angle, it seems to lend itself to a pivotal role in many stories. The idea that it knows the time of its own death adds some great philosophical questions to any encounter where the creature's death is likely.

As a DM I could see the party attacking it and could have some fun adjudicating its reactions with the absolute knowledge it's about to perish (or not) from the get go.

I would use this in my game, probably going to get one of my votes.


My only problem is the appearance. Two headed giant bird? Luckily the concept is so fricken ingenious you can attach it to any quantifiable form and have an amazing plot device and/or end game villain (potential anti-hero?).

I hope you get to advance, because your idea is awesome (love the name too), but next time phone a friend when creating its look. Two headed things tend to represent diminished intellect and internal conflict. Neither apply here.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
terraleon wrote:

I knew what a haruspex was, but that is because my Ars Magica-fu is strong.

What? You mean not everyone knows what to call the guy who tears out the entrails of a creature and divines the future from them?

Sheesh, I tell ya.

Kids these days! It's the schools' fault, I tells ya...

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Dementrius

Thank you to the Judges for their feedback and hard work!

Vote Haga! He knows the lottery numbers for next week and who voted for him (hint hint).

I'll cheerfully answer all questions and comments about our entrail-reading friend once the voting has closed. Fortunately, someone has passed me a list of all the upcoming comments so I can get started on them now.


It knows the time of its own death, but yet it can predict anything so why would it choose to die? It seems like a very hard creature to kill. But I still like it (but it already knew that didn't it).

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16 aka Mark Thomas 66

Now this creature is awesome. Very much feels like an old world mythology that most civilizations could have forgotten. Hell, finding one has got to be an adventure all its own.

BTW Sean he said immoral not immortal.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Dementrius

The Scotch Assassin wrote:
...But I still like it (but it already knew that didn't it).

*Haga whispers to Dave*

Um...check under your chair. You will apparently find an envelope containing a 10th century Byzantine gold coin as a reward for your acclaim. Also: don't eat cheeseburgers for the next week.

Shadow Lodge

Hexcaliber wrote:
Two headed things tend to represent diminished intellect and internal conflict. Neither apply here.

... and little girls tend to be hags in disguise - you can't blame the guy for breaking stereotypes. I'm sure the good people of Albania and Montenegro will appreciate their flag now being a symbol for diminished intellect and internal conflict... way to create an international incident, Hexcaliber :D

The two headed eagle has often been a sign of strength and vigilance in history, and I'm pretty sure the Haga is a mythological beast in its own right (in ancient Rome? Check your local intermenet for more information). Hats off to Mr Posener for following the old school tradition of bringing monsters from our history books to maul the snot out of us in modern role playing games.

I’d personally use this monster in a campaign instead of the clichéd sphinx – the Haga is far more freaky and intimidating... and has that classic mix of the familiar and the alien that many mythological creatures hold.

Good work David, you’ve got my vote!


I really don't see how you make any PC fight with one work given a haga as currently written is represented as knowing the moment of its death. Either it's scheduled to fall in a fight with the PCs in which case no matter how ineptly or badly they fight at a particular moment it's guaranteed that it will die, or it's not scheduled to occur in a fight with the PCs in which case no matter what they do they aren't going to be able to kill it. The end result is predetermined, and the only question how many PCs are reduced to mush and what resources they expend in discovering which of two possibilities it is?
Otherwise, I actually like this creature, which turns the concept of human oracles reading the entrails of birds to predict the future neatly on its head.

I have some concerns about possible roles for this creature in-game. It seems to me likely to be a high level challenge, and not at all suitable for use in most games except as an NPC to consult.

My overall impression is one of a creature which is a very neat idea, but which may be hard to make rules and a stat block for, and with probably limited application in-game.

Thank-you for submitting this creature.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Dementrius

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

I really don't see how you make any PC fight with one work given a haga as currently written is represented as knowing the moment of its death. Either it's scheduled to fall in a fight with the PCs in which case no matter how ineptly or badly they fight at a particular moment it's guaranteed that it will die, or it's not scheduled to occur in a fight with the PCs in which case no matter what they do they aren't going to be able to kill it. The end result is predetermined, and the only question how many PCs are reduced to mush and what resources they expend in discovering which of two possibilities it is?

Otherwise, I actually like this creature, which turns the concept of human oracles reading the entrails of birds to predict the future neatly on its head.

I have some concerns about possible roles for this creature in-game. It seems to me likely to be a high level challenge, and not at all suitable for use in most games except as an NPC to consult.

My overall impression is one of a creature which is a very neat idea, but which may be hard to make rules and a stat block for, and with probably limited application in-game.

Thank-you for submitting this creature.

No problem! But there's only one way to see more from me...

Sczarni

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
The Scotch Assassin wrote:
It knows the time of its own death, but yet it can predict anything so why would it choose to die? It seems like a very hard creature to kill. But I still like it (but it already knew that didn't it).

but prophecy has been unreliable since it's got has died... maybe even those whom rely on it for their well-being are starting to doubt it (see - these creatures can even be the PC's boss) I like it

Edit:

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
I really don't see how you make any PC fight with one work given a haga as currently written is represented as knowing the moment of its death.

They are creatures of prophecy. If they do not act accordingly, their entire nature is invalidated and they become lower than harrow-readers. If they themselves prove that their prophecies can be overcome, why should anyone else believe them.. unless they leave no survivors. So either they die in battle, at the correct time, or they have traps/constructs/plants in place to kill those whom chased them off.


Cpt-kirstov:
Round 2 entries are setting neutral. The RPG Superstar rules require it. Therefore it cannot be assumed that prophecies are messed up, or even that harrow-readers exist in the same setting as a haga.... ;)

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 , Marathon Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Demiurge 1138

Ooh, this is neat! I didn't have much faith with the first sentence--there's lots of two headed giant beasts out there--but making it a powerful diviner is pretty out of left field in a good way. Makes it sort of an evil pheonix, and that's cool and mythic. I agree with Schneider that it seems like it could be a real mythological critter, which is major points in my book!

I may be voting for this one. I haven't gotten through all of the entries, so time will tell, but I like the cut of the haga's jib. Or maybe jibs. Depends if the jib is on the head.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Cpt-kirstov:

Round 2 entries are setting neutral. The RPG Superstar rules require it. Therefore it cannot be assumed that prophecies are messed up, or even that harrow-readers exist in the same setting as a haga.... ;)

Aye, but the final prize relies on Golarion, and other entries got props for how they fit into the pathfinder campaign setting... anyway, the harrow-reader in the second example was my attempt to show how an intelligent creature who can act as a reliable prophet would consider those using 'lesser' forms of fortune telling

Liberty's Edge Contributor , Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

This could be a BBEG that the party fights after wading through armies that the haga has manipulated into getting in the way of the party in order to prevent the characters from killing the haga. To me, it seems like a unique entity more than a monster, and I can only imagine using this to drive a campaign. That's just me though, and I think it's got enough spark to carry a lot of votes.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
taig wrote:

This could be a BBEG that the party fights after wading through armies that the haga has manipulated into getting in the way of the party in order to prevent the characters from killing the haga. To me, it seems like a unique entity more than a monster, and I can only imagine using this to drive a campaign. That's just me though, and I think it's got enough spark to carry a lot of votes.

I don't know why, but I keep getting pulled to this one... I definatly see them as a small number, but I would like to see 2 of these as rivals somewhere. Once sees the death of a haga in it's prophecy, and tries to kill them, the other tries to save them, and the one who tries to save them dies.... leaving the one who tried to kill them with his prophecy fulfilled.. just in a strange way..

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka SmiloDan

I originally thought the idea of a two-head bird was kind of silly, then I remembered the back of Eliza Dushku's neck. I really like the idea of the two heads holding two different conversations at the same time, or providing different sides of the same prophecy coin simultaneously. Reminded me of the Demon-Goddess from the Vlad Taltos adventures by Steven Brust (She can hold several different conversations with different people in the same room at the same time, even though she only has the one head).

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 aka tejón

Wes: while the specific name "haga" is pretty obscure -- I found it with some searching, but hadn't heard it before -- double-headed eagles are a recurring symbol stretching to the dawn of history.

This isn't a monster you'll encounter with any frequency... but it's there. From level 1 to level this-monster's-CR, it's there and the players will be drawn inevitably to it.

This is getting one of my votes.


Dementrius - you are a big idea guy. You're obviously creative in your ideas AND your execution. I've made this comparison before, but I think you are this year's Boomer.

But even more than Boomer, for you to take this thing, I think you'll need to get in touch with your inner editor. If you can do that, you've got a great shot. Looking forward to reading what further inspired madness you have in that twisted brain of yours.....

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Dementrius

Thanks for the great comments everyone! I'm watching keenly and waiting anxiously for the 2nd so that I can respond.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

As I read the first sentence, I was almost ready for the next submission. Yet another 'normal creature turned monster by adding a head'? But you didn't fall into that trap. Instead, you crafted something beautiful. This submission just works as it is. Also, it is a monster that provides one more way of interacting with it besides 'kill it'.

You, sir, have one of my votes. Carry on.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Cpt_kirstov wrote:


I don't know why, but I keep getting pulled to this one...

I got it! I'm drawn to this because I would love to see it in Harryhausen film.

Marathon Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Maugan22 wrote:
As a DM I could see the party attacking it and could have some fun adjudicating its reactions with the absolute knowledge it's about to perish (or not) from the get go.

Yeah! That would be fun.

However, I'd probably rather do that with a less out-there creature. THIS thing, I don't see it as a combat encounter - if you get into a fight with it, things have already gone south. As it knew they would.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Hah, I saw two-headed bird and my mind immediately leapt to chronotryns *shudders*.

I like this a lot, the obscure mythological-bent feels very authentic and I'm a sucker for oracle-types (and haruspex gets extra points, though I don't think anything will beat the trolls in Kaer Maga for coolness factor there), and the different prophecies from each head is very neat. Not sure I can squeeze it into my top 4 but it's definately going in the shortlist.


Definitely has my vote.
Love the imagery, and as Leif said above its the perfect behind-the-scenes manipulator that the party finally meets in the end.

Also plays on a common symbol (the two-headed eagle) to good effect.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I'm not quite sure what to make of this creature. It's a giant double-headed eagle who can read the future in a creature's organs, so I'm not sure if you're expected to attack it or just talk to it--or what its agenda is. Immortal, yet there is more than one of these (plurals many times in the description). So is this a battle encounter? A plot device? Would it ever intervene on behalf of the PCs? Would it attack the PCs because they inadvertently interfered with its plans? Does it have plans? It "choreographs" things, but to what purpose?

These all sound like things that are left up to the GM and the events of the campaign as it plays out, and I am very glad to see a monster that is so open-ended! I like options and uncertainties. "Let's go see the big terrifying bird that can read our fortunes.... but we need to bring it a sacrifice and we better not piss it off!"

I love it. I need to read all the others, but this one probably has my vote. I would definitely use this monster.

Star Voter 2013

Like the elemental weirds, this feels more like a setting feature than a monster, despite their status as monsters. Still, an oracle for the BBEGs is not a bad idea. Not one of my faves, but clearly you're picking up votes. Good luck!


Praise:
F*ing wicked man. This is cruel, gross, wicked, weird, and awesome all at once. The name is a little plain, but evokes power and mystery nontheless. I am truly afraid of this terrible, intelligent creature. Villain and encounter, mastermind and monster all in one. This thing calls the shots and executes them with deadly precision.

Concerns:
These are basically witch-birds, but the flavor and style of them is cool enough to look past that. A few spelling/grammar areas but nothing serious. At this point in the game, I would recommend finding a proofreader unless you are 100% confident in that area. I could see DMs abusing the precognition, and would perhaps tone it down a little in future incarnations.

Overall:
I love this creature. It has a ton of potential, can find a place in nearly any clime, has a place as both villain and monster, as a random encounter and as a quest-giver. I like your writing style; concise but descriptive, to the point - but I feel as though you were able to say everything you wanted to. I would maybe tone down the idea of perfect psychic prediction, as that takes it into the ranks of only a few epic villains and deities. Perhaps too powerful for a simple monster concept, I could easily see this in an MM.


COME ON GUYS!!! Don't any of you read Mythology!! This is what the whole game is based on!

I'm deffinately voting for the Haga!

Great Job. I love a classical mythological monster brought to life, especially one that has been ignored by the gaming industry.

For anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, here's a nice link that mentions it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-headed_eagle

"According to the most prevalent theory, the single-headed eagle was modified to double-headed by emperor Isaakios Komnenos (1057-1059) being influenced from local traditions about such a (mythical) beast (the haga) in his native Paphlagonia in Asia Minor. "

Hey man,

Can I get the stats for this thing? I want to use it in my campaign world.

The monster has all the classic traits needed for a great monster:
1) Very dangerous
2) Very hungry
3) Evil intentions
4) Blood thirsty (after all, it needs the bloody entrails for its divining)
5) Very Intelligent
6) Capricious

This thing is really cool.

Ken

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

I love this guy. Maybe it helped that I knew what haruspicy was, but also I think the guy works as an intelligent villain/mastermind monster, or as a somewhat unsavory oracular monster that PCs must negotiate with to gain some secret knowledge, or as the counselor and right-hand bird of some big bad boss monster. The two-headed prophecy angle is also nicely done.

They have a diviner's schtick wrapped up in an imposing physical package, with a touch of classical grotesquerie (reading the entrails) without being a straight-up gross-out entry.

They can be creators of conflict or the tempters and corrupting influence that pushes others to do it themselves. They can also feast on the anguish they create (a la will o'wisps) and can always be set up for an evil deathbed speech because whatever kills em, they saw it coming.

The prose, maybe overdramatic, but in an all-flavor-text round I'll cut you some slack on it. Besides, it wouldn't seem so over-the-top with a stat block alongside it, like a little acid to cut the sweetness. Also, you work in a lot of information about what the creature can actually DO in addition to laying out the concept.

The name, though, it's not good. Maybe it has some real-world etymology that Wes & Co aren't finding, but "Haga" is, as Clark said, way too close to hag and naga to not create confusion.

Overall: I love everything except the name. This one is probably getting a vote from me.

P.S. "seek a haga's council" should be "seek a haga's counsel"

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Sheesh, every time I review something I find myself saying that I might have to vote for it!

Here I am again. I feel like a broken record.

This feels mythological, and whether it is or it isn't.. what matters is that it feels like it.

You've written a CR creature here, which is bold. It feels a niche, being the mystic oracle. It can be a combat monster or a social encounter. It needs a little bit more fleshing out but I feel like I understand your concept well enough. The writing is great.

Good job, you're a contender and I'm keeping you mind. Good luck!


I've disagreed with Clark before, but in this instance, Clark's opinion was nearly identical to my own. The name could be better, and the writing was a little over-the-top for my taste.

However, this creature is a contender for my vote.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2015

First post disappeared I hope this doesnt duplicate

Still not a fan of the name even after Kenneth's input but not enough to hold it against the concept

"A haga is ... twenty feet long" hope thats wing span

"carries the scent of sandalwood" Why mention it smell, if you dont expand on it latter?

"to devour sentient prey" by sentient are you meaning humanoid or just anything that is self aware

"Other victims serve ..."so non-sentient prey?

"knowing perfectly the consequences of its actions and even the time of its own death"blah, not a fan of destiny especially self aware predestination. Which also seems to conflict with the divining rituals

"Hagas find delight in ... patterns across mortal generations, and the confluence of ... disasters." this almost sounds godly

"Hagas are ... able to snatch ... a bull"technical design flaw, a bird with a 20 foot wingspan couldnt lift that weight. yea I know fantasy world

"Hagas are ageless creatures""sounding more godly

I like that the haga can take the place of a dragon as a manipulator in a high fantasy campaign/world. It allows for a nice change as haga as the manipulator. What I'm not liking is that a 2 headed eagle can take the place of a fire breathing dragon. The fact that hagas can take place of dragons, even in terms of living in the mountains the two would be at odds with each other very quickly.
I dont like that hagas are immortal and allseeing as that puts them on the verge of being demigods, and beyond the scope of this round. I do like the hagas and how its presented

Sczarni

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
FireHawk wrote:


"A haga is ... twenty feet long" hope thats wing span

I picture that number as tip of the beak to tip of the tail as bird lengths are normally measured. That would put its wingspan at 94.1 feet (using a bald eagle's 17 inch length and 80 inch wingspan as a base to calculate)

FireHawk wrote:


"Hagas are ... able to snatch ... a bull"technical design flaw, a bird with a 20 foot wingspan couldnt lift that weight. yea I know fantasy world

again, a bald eagle can lift 4 pounds, so something the size I quote above would be able to lift about 56.5 pounds. You are correct in this.

FireHawk wrote:


"Hagas are ageless creatures""sounding more godly

I dont like that hagas are immortal and allseeing as that puts them on the verge of being demigods, and beyond the scope of this round. I do like the hagas and how its presented

He says that they know when they are going to die... that's the opposite of immortal. They have a built in limit of needing the entrails of a sentient being to be able to make 2 predictions... I hardly take that as all-seeing

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 aka tejón

Cpt_kirstov wrote:
again, a bald eagle can lift 4 pounds, so something the size I quote above would be able to lift about 56.5 pounds. You are correct in this.

Gotta step in on this one. :) Mass is not linear, it's cubic. The haga's own mass and structures needed to support it are a factor, and the applied surface area of the wing only increases by square, so its final lifting power should be somewhere between a square and a cubic relation with an eagle's. Going with the bottom end, the square-relative lifting power of the haga would be just over 1.5 tons. Indeed, that's approximately one bull.

Alternately, one could point out that It's Magic. ;)

Sczarni

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Lief Clennon wrote:


Gotta step in on this one. :) Mass is not linear, it's cubic. The haga's own mass and structures needed to support it are a factor, and the applied surface area of the wing only increases by square, so its final lifting power should be somewhere between a square and a cubic relation with an eagle's. Going with the bottom end, the square-relative lifting power of the haga would be just over 1.5 tons. Indeed, that's approximately one bull.

Alternately, one could point out that It's Magic. ;)

math was never my strong suit... thats why I didn't enter the contest :) I bow to your prow-less

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 , Marathon Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Demiurge 1138

Lief Clennon wrote:
Cpt_kirstov wrote:
again, a bald eagle can lift 4 pounds, so something the size I quote above would be able to lift about 56.5 pounds. You are correct in this.

Gotta step in on this one. :) Mass is not linear, it's cubic. The haga's own mass and structures needed to support it are a factor, and the applied surface area of the wing only increases by square, so its final lifting power should be somewhere between a square and a cubic relation with an eagle's. Going with the bottom end, the square-relative lifting power of the haga would be just over 1.5 tons. Indeed, that's approximately one bull.

Alternately, one could point out that It's Magic. ;)

Also, eagles are serious business. Golden eagles attack reindeer calves. The extinct Haast's eagle of New Zealand hunted moas. And probably human children.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2015

Demiurge 1138 wrote:


Also, eagles are serious business. Golden eagles attack reindeer calves. The extinct Haast's eagle of New Zealand hunted moas. And probably human children.

The largest flying bird was the Giant Teratorn and had a wingspan of 8.3 meters (27 ft) as says wiki ;) The teratorn was a condor which means it was a scavenger thus it didnt pick up prey it landed on it. The Haast's Eagle while an impressive beast and did indeed hunt moas but it did not pick them up, as saith the wiki.

In any regard if this creature is really 20 feet tall with wing span of 100 feet then I would suspect lifting a 2000-3000 lb bull _may_ be possible. Why somebody would want to talk to something that poops larger than a dwarf is another matter ;)

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

FireHawk wrote:
Why somebody would want to talk to something that poops larger than a dwarf is another matter ;)

Because it *knows* things...and all it will cost you are those pesky prisoners...er, horrible, irredeemable and ultimately regenerating, trolls you brought with you.

-Ben.


In addition, we would like to note it -is- magical. No human can lift 1000 lbs, but high level fighters can do so handily. No human can outrun a horse, but in D&D rules this is easy and possible at an early level. Humans can't fly, etc. Why can't this thing pick up whatever it wants? I don't see that as an issue.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

Demiurge 1138 wrote:


Also, eagles are serious business. Golden eagles attack reindeer calves. The extinct Haast's eagle of New Zealand hunted moas. And probably human children.

Golden eagles are still used to hunt wolves in some parts of the world- I wouldn't have believed it if there weren't pictures. There are also videos of them attacking adult deer, and killing mountain goats by dragging them off cliffs.

Birds are f***ing hardcore.

Back on topic, here is yet another creature that I want game stats and an illustration for. Great image, cool powers, a very strong and iconic place in the world.. just awesome all around.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2015

caith wrote:
In addition, we would like to note it -is- magical. No human can lift 1000 lbs, but high level fighters can do so handily. No human can outrun a horse, but in D&D rules this is easy and possible at an early level. Humans can't fly, etc. Why can't this thing pick up whatever it wants? I don't see that as an issue.

It's poor design when you have to suspend every belief in reality to beleive that a fictional creature could exist. Especially when the fictional creature is based on something found in real life. But more to this particular point it was a _minor_ technical point that a magical bird creature that may have 20' wingspan probably cant pick up something that probably weighs more than 2 times what the creature does.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

FireHawk wrote:
It's poor design when you have to suspend every belief in reality to beleive that a fictional creature could exist. Especially when the fictional creature is based on something found in real life. But more to this particular point it was a _minor_ technical point that a magical bird creature that may have 20' wingspan probably cant pick up something that probably weighs more than 2 times what the creature does.

Magical.

Bird.
Creature.

I...no, you know what?

FIREBALL!

;)

Really? There's a brain on the half-skull, a magnetic acid-sphere, a whirling storm of viscera and a metal parasite-injecting giant bug, but you're concerned about whether or not it could pick up a bull? The whole "We see the future in the shape of your liver and the color of your small intestine" thing doesn't strike you as reality defying? They're *all* reality defying.

Different strokes and all that, but yeah... wow. :)

-Ben.
(who wonders how bringing only heavy drinkers to the haga influences prophecy.)

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2015

terraleon wrote:

you know what?

FIREBALL!

this is internet, im in a fireproof suit ;)

terraleon wrote:


Different strokes and all that, but yeah... wow. :)

I hear what your saying. its all in suspension in belief its like the layers of an onion. Can you beleive the outer part then you should beleive the inner part. Again it minor nuances somebody should not select this purely on the basis of its lifting capabilities that would be ridiculous after all it is magically bird :)

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