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Sin-Fallen Angel of Gluttony


Round 2 - Top 32: Create a monster concept

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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

Sin-Fallen Angel of Gluttony

Description: Sin-fallen angels are created when an angel, archon or similar celestial being is overcome by sin, either from its own failings or from relentless torment at the hands of evil creatures.

A sin-fallen angel of gluttony is a flying, emaciated humanoid with sharp teeth and brittle, gnawed stumps where a true angel's wings would be. Its bony fingers end in long white claws, which it favors for weapons.

These fallen angels spread the sin of gluttony by any means, including inflicting their powers on unwilling victims. Some pursue work they began before their fall, although in a more perverse fashion. A fallen archon, for example, may use ghouls under its command to kill those who disrupt a city’s lawful workings. Or it may side with a tyrant, devouring his rebellious enemies and – perhaps – persuading him to try a bite.

Powers and Abilities: No powers remain from the angel’s life as a divine being, but it possesses new abilities to further its cause. Its very presence can leave a well-fed man weak with starvation, and a strike with its claws inflicts not only injury, but may turn a target ravenous, forcing him to feast on the nearest food, including the flesh of comrades or loved ones. Any humanoids the angel kills rise as ghouls or ghasts under its command. The angel can also swallow any creature its size or smaller, trapping them in what becomes a freakishly bloated stomach. This tactic heals the angel while its prey is slowly crushed to death inside it.

Contributor

I wrote a book called Anger of Angels that explores Heaven, Hell, the origin and nature of angels, and the effects of falling. I wrote three separate templates to handle falling, each applying successively to the previous one, reflecting the various stages of fully-angelic to fully-rebellious. It required a lot of wordage describing how a celestial's powers of type X, Y, and Z are affected by these transformations (for example, an angel with holy word first loses the ability, then finally gains unholy word with the last template). You have to go into this level of detail because your template may get applied to a lowly hound archon or to a planetar or even a solar.

This monster (which almost certainly is a template) simply says "the creature loses its former abilities." While that doesn't mean much to a hound archon (reducing its CR by 1 or maybe 2), it has a HUGE effect on a multipowered creature like a planetar or solar--changing them from a spellcasting cleric/paladin/melee monster into just a melee monster has a very significant effect on the creature's CR.

I realize that this round is just flavor, just description, but this description has created a giant pit trap for the mechanical aspects of the monster. I like fiddling with good outsiders as potential opponents, but you have to think about the consequences.

Of course, the designer may have intended the full writeup to include HD-based abilities for the templated creature to pick up (much as the half-fiend does), but I'm not sure how much you can do with scaling that sort of thing from CR 1 to CR 20.

Paizo Employee Editor-in-Chief

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I wrote a book called...

Blah, blah, blah. Every third sentence out of Sean's mouth starts this way. :P

Anywaaaay.

Wow. That there is a name.

This is both a monster and an implication for a half-dozen other monsters, which could be kind of a trick. I do like the idea of a giant withered, bulgey bellied angel, but part of the trick - like Sean says - is that "angel" isn't a monster in Pathfinder, its a variety depending on whether you actually mean angels or celestials in general. If it's not a template, in implies a weird upgrade or downgrade in power level for beings not of its CR. Just something to be aware of.

The status of fallen angels is also something of a planar bugaboo, to my mind, as there's not real guideline or system for what entails a celestial "falling from grace," if they even can. And if they can, are they destroyed, or do they turn into something else? Devils, daemons, demons, all dependent on their alignment? Or something else. We've never really said, and even the Book of the Damned largely dances around the topic - with the exception of some of the formerly angelic archdevils.

Again, so tricky terrain here - and one EXTREME name - but a neat sounding beastie, no doubt.

Founder, Legendary Games & Publisher, Necromancer Games, RPG Superstar Judge

Initial Impression: Fallen angel. Hmm. That’s hardly the road less traveled. Let’s see…

Concept (name, overall design choices, design niche, playability/usability, challenge): C-
The fallen angel is a tired stereotype and idea. Great literary basis, I grant you, but we are not breaking new ground here. I can’t imagine all celestials fallen due to sin wind up as one of these. That’s not good design, in my view. The concept left me with too many questions. Plus, this seems more like a template than a creature.
I don’t think you really found the working core of your monster with this. I think you had an idea, but I don’t think you worked it into an actual monster. I think you needed to focus in more on the gluttony angle and I don’t think you did.
Candidly, this strikes me as a submission that you didn’t have enough time to complete. This seems like a first draft.

Execution (quality of writing, hook, theme, organization, use of proper format, world neutral, quality of mandatory content—description, summary of powers): B+
The writing is ok. I like the gluttony angle. I like some of the implied powers—starvation, ravenous hunger, creating ghouls, swallowing. That is all good stuff. And pretty well written. The powers are the best part by far.
Again, this is a first draft. You had an idea. During the writing you found the gluttony angle, then you never went back and reworked the whole concept of your monster based on that cool thing you found.

Tilt (did it grab me, do I want to use one in an adventure?): B-
Nah, I don’t see it. I am all for demons and devils and angels and big good and big bad. But I don’t think you found this one. And I can’t see using it as it is. But it shows promise.

Overall: B-
I think you came real close with your fallen angel of gluttony. But I don’t think you quite found your monster.

Recommendation: I DO NOT recommend this creature advance.

Pathfinder Creative Director, Frog God Games

Despite all the templatic (a word?) implications mentioned above, I have to liekwise echo that this guy has GREAT powers. Cannibalism seems to be one of the minor themes of this year's contest, but I think this is its best representation yet. It also manages to bring ghouls and ghasts into the game in another way. It's hard to capture just how atrocious those suckers are, and I think you've given a good example of it here but connecting htem directly to gluttony as you have.


I'm a big fan of finding ways of ussing traditionally good outsiders as foes via some sort of fallen angel motif. The description follows from the basic concept, and playing with ideas of hunger does put this monster in something of a niche, however I find the name a little too long and offputting. The execution doesn't seem to innovate much despite some nice polish.

Also I always concieved as angels as being without physical appetites, so gluttony seems an odd fit.

Like the writting though.


Congratulations on making it to Round 2. I'm struggling with the size of the name, also. Plus, when I read it I immediately pictured Rikki Rockett and CC DeVille.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014 aka Darkjoy

Tilt? Nah, next.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

Thanks to all the judges for their comments! I look forward to replying to you and any other comments and questions after the voting is done.

In the mean time, I will take advice from the rules for round two and encourage everyone to please vote for my monster! :) Thanks!


Maugan22 wrote:
Also I always concieved as angels as being without physical appetites, so gluttony seems an odd fit.

I actually liked it, IMO. I could picture a "Sin-Fallen Angel of Lust" or a "Sin-Fallen Angel of Wrath"... while Gluttony isn't necessarily something you'd think of w/r/t angels, the idea that a sin-fallen angel would take on an aspect of one of the seven deadly sins seems downright literary. And the idea of cannibalism is creepy.

Andoran Contributor , Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Well, this certainly does open up the possibility of other sin-fallen angels in a campaign setting.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

Quote:
template ... template ... template ... template ...

Actually, my impression of "loses all previous abilities" was simply that it bares no mechanical resemblance to the celestial it once was. You know, kind of like how a human "loses all previous abilities" when it becomes a ghoul, vargoyle, or vampire spawn? They might retain old personality traits or physical characteristics, but a sin-fallen angel is a sin-fallen angel, plain and simple.

Maybe I'm way off here, but I'm pretty sure Sean and the others just misread this one.

Andoran Contributor , Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Nicolas Quimby wrote:
Quote:
template ... template ... template ... template ...

Actually, my impression of "loses all previous abilities" was simply that it bares no mechanical resemblance to the celestial it once was. You know, kind of like how a human "loses all previous abilities" when it becomes a ghoul, vargoyle, or vampire spawn? They might retain old personality traits or physical characteristics, but a sin-fallen angel is a sin-fallen angel, plain and simple.

Maybe I'm way off here, but I'm pretty sure Sean and the others just misread this one.

I share your impression. I think flagging up specific celestial beings at the start might have led to the confusion.

Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Nicolas Quimby wrote:
Quote:
template ... template ... template ... template ...

Actually, my impression of "loses all previous abilities" was simply that it bares no mechanical resemblance to the celestial it once was. You know, kind of like how a human "loses all previous abilities" when it becomes a ghoul, vargoyle, or vampire spawn? They might retain old personality traits or physical characteristics, but a sin-fallen angel is a sin-fallen angel, plain and simple.

Maybe I'm way off here, but I'm pretty sure Sean and the others just misread this one.

+1, I read this as a new creature with its own statistics that had no bearing at all on what statistics it might have had as what ever it was before it became a sin-fallen angel.

I think this is a fine monster, it doesn't make my top four, but that doesn't mean that isn't a solid addition to the contest. Good Luck!

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

Yea. This is solid, and I'd be perfectly happy to find it in a beastiary or monster manual, but it doesn't tread much new ground, and votes are few and precious. We'll see how it does.

Osirion RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

cwslyclgh wrote:
Nicolas Quimby wrote:
Quote:
template ... template ... template ... template ...

Actually, my impression of "loses all previous abilities" was simply that it bares no mechanical resemblance to the celestial it once was. You know, kind of like how a human "loses all previous abilities" when it becomes a ghoul, vargoyle, or vampire spawn? They might retain old personality traits or physical characteristics, but a sin-fallen angel is a sin-fallen angel, plain and simple.

Maybe I'm way off here, but I'm pretty sure Sean and the others just misread this one.

+1, I read this as a new creature with its own statistics that had no bearing at all on what statistics it might have had as what ever it was before it became a sin-fallen angel.

I think this is a fine monster, it doesn't make my top four, but that doesn't mean that isn't a solid addition to the contest. Good Luck!

+2 on the above.

The name is totally Boomeriffic; my buddy loves him some hyphens.

The power concepts are GREAT. The "swallows bigger creatures whole and heals itself by crushing them to death in its stomach" and the way you described it was the first thing of the five or so monsters I've read that made me perk up and go "Wow, THAT is COOL!" So consider that monster ability duly yoinked to show up somewhere in my campaign.

But... the ambiguity about whether this is more standalone monster or template, treading the well-trampled earth of "fallen angels" as your monster concept, those are problems.

Overall: Powers are great, writing is good, concept is so-so, implied mechanics are a bit iffy. A mixed bag, but the total package isn't quite there.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka SmiloDan

I think this is a great example of how a little-used rule set (starvation rules) can be inspiring for a monster. It's obvious a generic corruption of all sorts of angels, and not a template, just like a Pit Fiend isn't a template that a "promoted" Ice Devil has. I also like how Gluttony is one of the more PG-13 of the seven deadly sins. I'm not sure a Sin-Fallen Angel of Lust would be appropriate for this contest.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 , Marathon Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka Demiurge 1138

I agree with the comments from the rest of the voting public that these guys aren't meant to be templates. They used to be celestials of various stripes, they fell, now regardless of previous power level or abilities, they're all the same type of freakish fallen. I do also agree with the assertion that the name is... wow. And not in a good way. It's quite a mouthful. I'd at least have liked a name that they call themselves.

I'd like to know how a celestial, which knows neither hunger or thirst, could succumb to gluttony. Not that I'm saying it couldn't happen, but the elusive "why" isn't there. That said, they do have pretty good gluttony-themed powers. Far better than the supposed daemon of famine that appeared in Beyond the Vault of Souls (they'd better be actually famine-y in Bestiary 2!).

The sin-fallen angel makes my Tier 2. Although I wouldn't mind seeing what you've got in Round Three, but you don't have my vote.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

The Cons first, because there's just one: The Name. Dude. I mean, really. That is Way. Too. Long. Even if you had to come up with something completely new and faux-some-language-sounding, that would have been better than SFAOG.

The Pros: Love the idea (and, as others before me, I don't see this as a template at all, but rather as an original creature. Much like stronger demons are created from weaker demons, the SFAOG (oh my) is created from a celestial that succumbs to corruption.). LOVE! the powers you only just touched on. I want to see this statted up, and given a more detailed background. I don't worry about the 'doesn't have to eat vs. gluttony' dichotomy, because I think it's perfect: Corrupting a creature that doesn't have to eat, and make it ravenous. How evil is that?

Erik, you've started out very well here. I wish you the best of luck; you are a strong candidate for advancement in my opinion.

Marathon Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

See, I didn't picture this as a template, hence the "loss of all abilities" - I think of it as a creature, not a template. Kind of like a zombie - you may have been the most powerful sorcerer in Golarion, but you're no different than any of the other zombies.

However, I don't think it delivered on the name, unfortunately - it came across as kind of disjointed.

I do have to say I hope this is one of the 16 that makes it; with some guidance I think there's more good stuff here.


The name implies to me that there could be other types of sin-fallen angel, but the actual writeup, despite some evocative description, doesn't really wow me. I think you needed to go with slightly more Powers and Abilities saying something along the lines of 'Whilst these powers are common to all Sin-Fallen Angels of Gluttony, the ones that were mightier in their former existences command rarer and deadlier still abilities in their corrupted forms...' Statting it would be a challenge, but what it does to the CRs (and this does seem to me to be a template) of creatures which lose whole suites of powers and only get a few things in return is otherwise equally problematic.

In encounters this seems likely to me to be a boss or mastermind, the villain at the end of an adventure (or a least an agent or lieutenant for something even scarier).

My overall impression is of a monster template which could have said a lot more.

Thanks for submitting this entry.


Praise:
The name grabbed me, and the idea of a "twisted angels" series of monsters, based on the se7en deadly sins is a neat concept. This creature sounds nasty; the white bony claws, the wing stumps, and vicious little teeth are definitely creepy. Short, concise description, not too much, but could have had a little more. It sounds like a f*ing great villain. A fallen angel, raising ghouls, pursuing a twisted continuation of their once benevolent works with mindless determination. This also answers what happens when devils and demons get a hold of angels.

Concerns:
I have a single issue with this creature, and I think it's a big one: there is a single description for a number of different celestial beings. All celestials are not humanoid, or winged. Does this only happen to winged humanoid angels? A lantern archon, for example, would not likely take this form, and so the description should be a little more specific.

Overall:
I could see this as a villain, and that's a very good thing. I could also see this as a minor monster, a local terror, a minion. I think the most important thing in monster design is flexibility. Though some still enjoy it, the days of random encounters and generic monsters are starting to fade(IMO). Iconic monsters like this are the future of a more character-driven, roleplaying oriented game. I could see players loving one of these as a villain or terror, even as they loath and fear it. Well written, simple, got the point across. I can visualize this creature terrorizing even a city as large as Absalom.


I think I would have just dropped the whole "Fallen Angel" part, and just made this a Devil of Gluttony. You could have then just focused on the different abilities.

I liked it, but I wasn't blown away.


F. Wesley Schneider wrote:


The status of fallen angels is also something of a planar bugaboo, to my mind, as there's not real guideline or system for what entails a celestial "falling from grace," if they even can. And if they can, are they destroyed, or do they turn into something else? Devils, daemons, demons, all dependent on their alignment? Or something else. We've never really said, and even the Book of the Damned largely dances around the topic - with the exception of some of the formerly angelic archdevils.

I don't mean to correct you... well, I do, actually. But I want this to sound as polite as possible. Isn't a "Devil, Erinyes" a fallen angel? The first line of it's Bestiary entry says "Some calamity has befallen this angellic warrior." Fallen Angels are mentioned again in the Bestiary on page 9.

Regarding the template issue: If this is a template or not is irrelevant (although I would like to see it as a template if statted). The bottom line is, Do the voters think this is a cool creature concept?

I’m on the fence with that. You MAY get my vote. Still more to read…

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

Thanks for the wonderful comments everyone! I told a friend today what a great education this has been, and all these new critiques have just reinforced that.

Andoran

i like the concept, but its a template
it would have been better to give it a name, and use your name's submission as description.

not bad idea... yet it requires a bit more of working... still this things would do wonders working with Urgothoa,.. which i believe you were aspiring for.

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

I have been inspired to create! This fallen angel gets my vote!

Star Voter 2013

The mad lib name definitely doesnt help this concept

"Sin-fallen angels are created when an angel ... is overcome by sin" Not being well versed on angels I'm going by the seat of my pants. Arent angels good souls that have ascended and then promoted into servitude of a god? which means their best of the good and now immortal. Yet these god chosen servants can fall prey to their self serving?

"Sin-fallen angels are created when an angel ... is overcome by ... relentless torment" These god chosen servants can be harassed into betraying their mortal and immortal beleifs? If 'torment' was replaced with 'torture' the result may be more effective

"A sin-fallen angel of gluttony is a flying, emaciated humanoid with sharp teeth and brittle, gnawed stumps where a true angel's wings would be.." cool description! I also have minor issues that the sfag fly's with out wings, but being that this is a magically charged creature its more a preferential difference

"These fallen angels spread the sin of gluttony by any means ..." very nice display of manipulation, and creating storyline/plot ideas.

"No powers remain from the angel’s life as a divine being, but it possesses new abilities to further its cause." Im not sure but maybe rewording this as 'No divine powers remain from the angel’s previous life as a divine being' would have allowed the concept be a tad bit more powerful

"Its very presence can leave a .. man weak with starvation, and a strike with its claws ... turn a target ravenous ..." Slight conceptual flaw, if the mere presence of the sfag causes gluttony why would a claw attack duplicate the attack

"Any humanoids the angel kills rise as ghouls" You missed the chance to describe flesh hungry ghouls, or even a new type of ghoul. What happens if sfag kills an angel, demon, or devil?

"The angel can also swallow any creature its size or smaller, trapping them in what becomes a freakishly bloated stomach. This tactic heals the angel while its prey is slowly crushed to death inside it." I bet many sfag dont survive this attack on pcs as it allows players to to cut thier way out a little to readily. If the sfag kills this way does it continue digesting the creature, or does it vomit up a ghoul?

The core concept of a sin-fallen angel is overpowered by the gluttony. As this a huge concept, and is probably a concept too big for a 300 word entry. The concept needed to be slimmed down. With that said excellent work on the gluttony!


Erik Randall wrote:

Sin-Fallen Angel of Gluttony

cut for space

This is the sixteenth monster that I am looking at. (Hooray, halfway there!) I do not read the comments below the entry before posting my opinion. An apology if this is duplicative of someone else’s entry, in part or whole.

Way too many references to “sin” here just within the first paragraph. Name, I’m afraid, is too long. Not a foul to let anyone else have a free shot mind you, but a note for future writing. You get a lot of it back with the cool description in the second paragraph. At first I thought “gluttony, shouldn’t they be fat?” then I came around to your thinking. It’s got some good ideas in it definitely. However, it more than implies Christian morality (sin of gluttony), and it would have lost me but for the comment about a fallen archon one of these ruling ghouls or something. Then it comes back to making sense, but it seems like a slight stretch.

Powers:
*presence can make someone starving (great for a novel; is this interesting for D&D?)
*inflict damage with claws (invoking the cool text, yes)
*and make them hungry enough to devour the flesh of others (sorta like a limited dominate go-nail-your-PC friends move)
*humanoids rise as ghouls or ghasts (okay)
*swallow any creature its size into a bloated stomach (way cool visual! I like this)
*heals the creature while crushing prey to death (nice)

Summary: Okay, a creature with a theme. It’s well-executed with respect to the theme. I like the “fallen angel as undead” thing. This is the sort of inspiration I would expect to see in a Wolfgang Baur monster. The overtones of sin do bother me a bit – we’ve gotten away from that a lot in D&D. Mind you, it still works for this critter because of how it does what it does. So I like it. I’ll revisit later when I have my full set done and take a look. This is definitely in the upper half of creatures viewed so far.

Andoran Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

I said no to this before I even saw the entry, the name alone was to "meh" and unless you made me turn a 180 I was not granting a vote. Sadly, it wasn't enough this round for me.

Osirion

FireHawk wrote:


"Sin-fallen angels are created when an angel ... is overcome by sin" Not being well versed on angels I'm going by the seat of my pants. Arent angels good souls that have ascended and then promoted into servitude of a god? which means their best of the good and now immortal. Yet these god chosen servants can fall prey to their self serving?

Point of note: Theoretically, no. Angels were created as angels. Depending upon who you read, good souls might become angels or just might remain virtuous souls. Seems to depend upon whether or not they come back on a mission (or a TV show) or not.

Also, fallen angels are called that for a reason - they were angels who fell from grace, usually involving a Sin in some way, and I mean one of the traditional Big Seven (Pride, Wrath, Gluttony, Lust, er, and the other three). So there is no issue here with "these god chosen servants can fall prey to their self serving".

Grand Lodge Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

How did the author respond to the challenge? Well-structured with everything I need in its proper place.

How does it stack up


  • as an opponent? Dangerous abilities in personal combat if it can close with an opponent. Flying (without wings) and raising ghouls don't seem to tie in to its primary abilities with great effect - they're just things it happens to be able to do.
  • as something other than an opponent? Background is more flavour text than helpful for me, but maybe that's to be expected for an outsider that can come and go as it wills from the Prime Material.
  • in relation to other monsters? There's no shortage of fiends to cover this territory.
  • in relation to the author's item? Hmm. Dimensional oddities?
  • in itself? Emaciated, freakishly bloated, fangs and claws, chewed-off wings (that don't stop it flying) - description is just by the numbers to my reading. I like its first couple of powers (starvation aura and ravenousness) but others don't fit together so well.

Got to give it points for the name, but I would have liked to see something more compelling from the seriously mythic starting point of a fallen angel.


Erik Randall wrote:

Sin-Fallen Angel of Gluttony

A fallen Angel as a whole new monster? ( I don't think that this is a template at all)

I don't know. For this theme i prefer the subtle approach, at first not changing anything about the powers of the creature, just about how and for what purposes it uses them.

Creativity/Innovation:

Fallen Angel? nothing new.
Gluttony? Been there, done that.
Fallen Angel of Gluttony? Ok, new but not really interesting. Just taking two themes that go well together and gluing them together. It's like a hellhound. Take a dog, set it on fire. Violá.
What I like is the new take on swallow whole. this fits the theme and is the real gem of this monster. Everything else is "Meh!".

Tilt:
While I like the image of the swallow whole, everything else left me cold. Perhaps I might give one specific monster (of gluttony) this power. but thats about it. No great ideas, no plots come to my mind when reading your angel. Not even it's physical appearance seems to be new.

I'm not considering this for a vote.

Anyways I wish you good luck and good work nevertheless.

Paizo Employee Developer

I love the description of this creature as well as a number of the indicated powers and abilities. It would certainly by a creepy and memorable addition to a campaign. It seems to me more like a natively evil outsider, though, such as a gluttony-based daemon, devil, or to a lesser extent demon. Making it a fallen angel complicates it a lot, as Sean indicates, and I think actually diminishes the overall impact of the monster. It may be that the fallen angel aspect was meant more to be flavor, similar to how devils are described by what types of mortal souls they form out of. If such is the case, I think the entry could be improved by removing the example archon information and focus more on universal qualities of all creatures of this type instead of describing how they might vary from one another. You've got some great imagery here, and a truly terrifying concept, so I hope the voters see fit to move you on to the next round. Best of luck!

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

The great comments keep coming! Seeing what everyone connects with - or doesn't - has been both inspiring and humbling.

Thanks again everyone!

I hope you will all vote for my monster and me! :)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014 aka Epic Meepo

My thoughts on the sin-fallen angel of gluttony...

The Name: Way too long. It would work better if the monster were simply called an angel of gluttony, and sin-fallen was a breed of outsider to which it belonged (spelled out in the monster description, not the monster name).

The Description: The description is about what I expected from the name (though an emaciated glutton is a nice touch). It could be improved by cutting all references to specific types of celestials that might turn into angels of gluttony. Stronger emphasis needed to be placed on the fact that angels of gluttony do not retain any of the abilities they had in their previous lives as celestials, just as fiends formed from mortal souls do not retain any of the abilities they had in their previous lives as evil mortals.

The Powers: The powers are the best part of this monster. I see all of them fitting the gluttony theme perfectly. The starvation effect is a clever use of an oft-overlooked mechanic. The ghouls make perfect sense as minions, and this guy deserves them as minions a lot more than the nabasu demon does. And the new take on swallow whole is ingenious. I know that we already have sin-based outsiders in the form of demons, but the angel of gluttony is clearly intended from the get-go to epitomize its sin, whereas demons have obviously had the sin connection tacked on after the fact. Plus, if push comes to shove, there's nothing saying angels of gluttony aren't demons that happen to be formed from angels, thus allowing demonkind to retain its monopoly on sin-related fiendishness.

The Buzz: I've seen the word "template" thrown around a lot on this thread (and others), but I'm not seeing it here. The angel of gluttony has a fixed set of powers, regardless of its prior form as a celestial. The description could have done more to emphasize that, but it was still in there to be found by those wishing to look for it.

The Vote: This is one of eight monsters that I will be considering when it comes time to cast my vote, on the strength of it's set of powers, which are at once clever, numerous, and strongly thematic.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka JoelF847

Nicolas Quimby wrote:
Quote:
template ... template ... template ... template ...

Actually, my impression of "loses all previous abilities" was simply that it bares no mechanical resemblance to the celestial it once was. You know, kind of like how a human "loses all previous abilities" when it becomes a ghoul, vargoyle, or vampire spawn? They might retain old personality traits or physical characteristics, but a sin-fallen angel is a sin-fallen angel, plain and simple.

Maybe I'm way off here, but I'm pretty sure Sean and the others just misread this one.

This was my thought as well, and was surprized all of the judges thought it HAD to be a template. I quite liked the entry, and think it has the best name of the round. I also like that while it describes one monster, it suggests another 6 to round out other types of sin-fallen angels, similar to how the R1 entry Muse of the Solemn Vessel suggests other versions. While fallen angels might be nothing new - this fallen angel is. As a complaint, that's like saying that a new demon, devil, or dragon isn't anything new, and therefore not worth having. I liked the tight theme to it's powers, the healing via swallowing whole, and the ghoul creation in particular. On top of an interesting set of mechanics, the description of the monster is great, along with extra details in the powers section with the distended stomach when swallowing whole.

Great job! Your entry is in the top tier I've read, and this means I'll have an even harded time picking my 4 votee!

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Orange Toque

Does it grab me visually: Yes. It flies around even though it has gnawed stumps for wings-I want to know more about that. It’s creepy looking, and the line about persuading a tyrant to take a bite of his enemies gives me chills.

Would I use it in game: If I had the rest of the “set” of sin-fallen angels, yes. I like the idea of fallen angels for each of the sins. And if this was a template to be added to any angel, I would get a lot of use out of it.

Would my players enjoy an encounter with it: On it’s own, probably not. In a group of other sin-fallen angels, very much so.

Osirion RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 aka flash_cxxi

The Fallen Angel is a well trod path, but I do like the sound of your entry and it all meshes to create an interesting creature.

That said it's not enough to get my Vote.
Sorry and Good Luck. :)


I like fallen angels as a theme, I dislike seeing them as anything else as a unique monster though, templates might help you design such a monster, maybe a template for each of the seven sins even.

The name does not really flow for me, Angel of Sin would be a bit better, I think.

Id'not expect a near skeletal figure with the sin of gluttony. Not a bad idea, it's just that I have seen this particular theme done much better.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

I'll try to address specific comments later, but I do want to address the template issue and a few other things.

This was never meant to be a template. It was always meant to be an change into something new, just like - as SmiloDan noted - devils and demons evolve without the application of a template.

The bit at the beginning of the powers section about no powers remaining from its previous life was intended to confirm that. In hindsight, I should have been much clearer about that.

A while back I was thinking about fallen angels that were connected to specific sins, inspired in part by the sin magic in Golarion. It was one of those ideas I filed away in my brain (since I didn't have a venue for it at that point) and didn't really think about again. But it crawled back out for this contest and won out against the other monster ideas I had.

Of the sins, gluttony seemed the most interesting to me. Wrath was my second choice, but the idea of hunger and excess stuck with me. That and I could already imagine this thing floating over its victims. From there I figured out its powers. The ghoul thing started as a "what if it had minions?" idea and then I remembered the suggestion from the ghoul description that they may have been cannibals in life, so that tied neatly into the ravenous hunger I already had.

Clearly, I didn't spend enough time digging into its motives, its role in the world or how it could come into conflict with the PCs. I wish I'd done a few more drafts of that section of the description, especially since that was something I looked for immediately in the other submissions. It's a bit embarrassing and humbling that I missed it in my own work.

In short, I should have done a better job making clear how it became what it is, and that it was a creature all its own. And I should have dug deeper into what that means and how it fits into the world.

And the name. I like it. Some other people like it. But many people don't, so I've got a couple of names I'm trying out, and I'll see if they sound better. (I'm trying the "what might they call themselves" tactic this time.)

Thanks again for all the comments. I've learned a great deal and it's really inspired my creativity.


Ironically after I read it the second time, the name didn't really bother me. I am curious to see if you'll advance and we'll get to see what you intend with some of these listed abilities.


Commiserations.


In an episode of Supernatural. The protagonists fight against demons that represent the seven deadly sind. Basically I like the idea.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Hi Erik, I liked the concept for your monster. A little bit of Golarion flavor without making it too world specific. The idea of fallen angels is fairly mainstream so that may have hurt you. I also found it a bit funny for a fallen Outsider to be spawning Undead. I did like the swallow whole ability, perhaps it could have been described as sucking the goodness (life) out of the swallowed creature. I hope to see you competing again in next year’s competition.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

Matt Goodall wrote:
Hi Erik, I liked the concept for your monster. A little bit of Golarion flavor without making it too world specific. The idea of fallen angels is fairly mainstream so that may have hurt you. I also found it a bit funny for a fallen Outsider to be spawning Undead. I did like the swallow whole ability, perhaps it could have been described as sucking the goodness (life) out of the swallowed creature. I hope to see you competing again in next year’s competition.

Thanks Matt!

If I hadn't thought about the cannibalism thing, I might not have chosen ghouls as minions, but they struck me as well-suited to gluttony.

I will definitely be competing again next year. The last few weeks have resulted in my creating more monster and item ideas than I did in the whole of last year. Win or lose, I'm feeling pretty creative.

I should give this thing stats by the end of the weekend. I'm tempted to try and fit it into CR 6, just to see if I can do it, even though I imagined it closer to CR 8 or 9.

Good luck on this round! I liked your work on the last two rounds (I'll be reading monsters tomorrow, when my brain is more awake :) ).

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

OK. I finally put aside planning a new Pathfinder campaign long enough to stat this. It has a new name (which apparently is also the name of a city and district in Kenya, but I really like it...). It may be pushing into CR 7, and not the CR 6 I gave it.

That said, here it is:

Nakuru (Sin-Fallen Angel of Gluttony):

Nakuru (Sin-Fallen Angel of Gluttony) CR 6
XP 2,400
AL NE Medium outsider (evil, extraplanar, sin-fallen angel)
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +12
Aura starvation aura (30 ft. radius, DC 17)

=====
Defense
=====
AC 18, touch 12, flat-footed 16 (+2 Dex, +6 natural)
hp 60 (8d10+24)
Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +5
Defensive Abilities DR 5/good; Immune paralysis, poison; Resist acid 10, cold 10; SR 17
Weaknesses vulnerability to good

=====
Offense
=====
Speed 30 ft., fly 60 ft. (good)
Melee 1 bite +13 (1d8+3 plus ravenous hunger and grab) and 2 claws +10 (1d6+1 plus ravenous hunger)
Special Attacks create ghoul, ravenous hunger (Will, DC 17, some targets receive +4 to save), swallow whole (2d4 bludgeoning damage, AC 13, 6 hp)

=====
Statistics
=====
Str 17, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 16
Base Atk +9; CMB +11; CMD 23
Feats Flyby Attack, Iron Will, Multiattack, Weapon Focus (bite)
Skills Bluff +22, Diplomacy +14, Fly +17, Knowledge (planes) +12, Knowledge (religion) +12, Perception +12, Sense Motive +12, Stealth +13, Survival +12; Racial Modifiers +8 Bluff
Languages Celestial, Common, Infernal; truespeech

=====
Ecology
=====
Environment any or any (evil Outer Planes)
Organization solitary or with 1-6 ghouls and ghasts
Treasure incidental (from victims)
=====
Special Abilities
=====
Create Ghoul (Su) Humanoids killed by a nakuru's claws or bite rise immediately as ghouls under its command. Humanoids of 4 Hit Dice or more rise as ghasts. A nakuru can control 4 Hit Dice of undead it creates for each hit die it possesses. Additional undead created are free-willed and often become snacks for the nakuru. Creatures swallowed by the nakuru are usually too broken to rise as undead.

Grab (Ex) A nakuru may attempt grab any creature its size or smaller.

Ravenous Hunger (Su) Creatures struck by the nakuru must succeed on a Will save (DC 17) or suffer uncontrollable hunger for 1d6 rounds. The hunger affects any creature capable of eating, although those who do not normally require food to survive receive a +4 racial bonus on the save. Those who fail the save immediately seek out the nearest source of food. If a living creature - other than a nakuru - is the closest, then the victim attempts to eat it. The victim may use a standard action each round to attempt another Will save to resist this urge. A successful save allows the creature to use the rest of its actions that round to acquire a different source of food, such as from a nearby table or rations in a backpack. Affected creatures still defend themselves if attacked and the hunger ends if the nakuru attacks the victim. This is a mind-affecting effect. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Starvation Aura (Su) Living creatures within 30 feet of the nakuru must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 17) or suffer 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and become fatigued. The fatigue lasts until the creature leaves the aura. It becomes fatigued again if it returns, but takes no more damage. An opponent that succeeds on the saving throw is immune to that nakuru's aura for 24 hours. A new save is required every 24 hours, with new damage for each save. Opponents that do not need to eat are immune to this effect. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Swallow Whole (Su) A nakuru's body stretches, allowing it to swallow a single creature its size or smaller it has grabbed. The nakuru regenerates one hit point for every point of damage its stomach inflicts on the swallowed creature, with injuries to the nakuru's stomach healing first. The nakuru can disgorge a swallowed creature as a move action. Creatures who die inside the nakuru are ejected in this manner to make room for a new victim. Creatures who break the grapple with the nakuru are also ejected, without costing the nakuru an action. The nakuru may take an attack of opportunity to bite creatures as they fly from its mouth.

Nakuru, sin-fallen angels of gluttony, are floating, emaciated humanoids with brittle, gnawed stumps where a true angel’s wings should be. Their long arms end in bony claws that are almost as sharp as their needle-like teeth. Nakuru are often accompanied by ghouls and ghasts they create and command.

Some nakuru fell while on the Material Plane and stayed. Others are trapped on evil outer planes, where they pass the time seeking access to the material plane and amuse themselves by making weaker creatures devour each other. Their eagerness to get to the Material Plane makes nakuru popular with summoners, as nakuru charge less for their services and their preferred payment - a decadent feast held in their honor – is often less odious than payments demanded by other evil outsiders. Unfortunately, the nakuru will sometimes use the guests of such a feast to create their ghoulish entourage.

Nakuru try to encourage gluttony through persuasion and guile, but the sin fallen lack the patience of other corrupting fiends and occasionally inflict their powers on unwilling victims. Tales of taverns falling prey to a hungry stranger or despots turning to cannibalism are often the legacies of an impulsive angel of gluttony.

As outsiders, nakuru do not require food to survive, but they obviously enjoy it.

Sin Fallen Angels
The sin-fallen are fallen angels who, during their descent, become obsessed with base desires and allow those desires to consume them. At the end of the angel's fall, a single sin marks it more deeply than others, and as the last of the angel's grace sloughs away the sin remains and births something new.

Sin-Fallen Angel Subtype: Sin-fallen angels were once angels, but have lost most of the features of their old subtype. They are evil outsiders, who wander the evil-aligned outer planes and the Material Plane. Sin-fallen angels possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).

* Darkvision 60 feet and low-light vision.
* Damage reduction 5/good.
* Resistance 10 to two types of energy.
* Vulnerability to good.
* Truespeech (Su) Sin-fallen angels can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level equal to angel's Hit Dice). This ability is always active.
* A sin-fallen angel's natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are evil for the purpose of resolving damage reduction.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014 aka JoelF847

Erik, thanks for statting up the sin fallen. One note is that you don't need to use the multi-attack feat, since in Pathfinder, claws and bite are both primary attacks, and multi-attack only helps with secondary attacks.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

Joel Flank wrote:
Erik, thanks for statting up the sin fallen. One note is that you don't need to use the multi-attack feat, since in Pathfinder, claws and bite are both primary attacks, and multi-attack only helps with secondary attacks.

D'oh! Can't believe I missed that.

Now I need to remember the other feat I considered for it. It was either Great Fortitude or Vital Strike.

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