Pathfinder Confessional

[Casey Jones, Train Conductor]

Wait, what was that bump? Oh well no time to stop now.

[pH unbalanced]

captain yesterday wrote:

This is my favorite

But really when we're talking Weird Al i'll take them all:-)

edit: true story my wife used to sing this to Tiny T-Rex when he was a baby to get the little guy to sleep, it's a blast watching his face light up when i put it on and he remembers it:-)

Mine too. (And yes, it was one of the first songs my kids adored, too.)

Especially since Don McLean was my father's favorite musician. I learned to read from the lyric sheets of his albums. (Which when you're talking about songs like On the Amazon was quite...odd.) Knowing all the lyrics to American Pie was an instrumental part of wooing of my first wife.

[Krensky]

pH unbalanced wrote:

captain yesterday wrote:

This is my favorite

But really when we're talking Weird Al i'll take them all:-)

edit: true story my wife used to sing this to Tiny T-Rex when he was a baby to get the little guy to sleep, it's a blast watching his face light up when i put it on and he remembers it:-)

Mine too. (And yes, it was one of the first songs my kids adored, too.)

Especially since Don McLean was my father's favorite musician. I learned to read from the lyric sheets of his albums. (Which when you're talking about songs like On the Amazon was quite...odd.) Knowing all the lyrics to American Pie was an instrumental part of wooing of my first wife.

Supposedly Don has to try very hard not to sing The Saga Begins when he's performing American Pie.

[The Green Tea Gamer]

Casey Jones, Train Conductor wrote:

Wait, what was that bump? Oh well no time to stop now.

So this is what you've been doing since Ninja Turtles got cancelled?!

Last I heard you were the pyromaniac figment of Leonardo DiCaprio's imagination on Shutter Island, or the crooked cop in Defendor!

[Casey Jones, Train Conductor]

No it's the legendary train conductor that was never late or whatever, Disney made a cartoon about him, which is admittedly my main point of reference, also the Casey Jones in the first movie was better then current cartoon version :-)

[Hippeh]

Driving that train
High on cocaine
Casey jones you better
watch your speed

[thegreenteagamer]

They could be the same. A conductor is allowed to have hobbies. He could beat criminals with an amateur sports theme in his free time...

[Casey Jones, Train Conductor]

Hippeh wrote:

Driving that train

High on cocaine
Casey jones you better
watch your speed

Also yes :-)

[captain yesterday]

I like the Medium class, I'm still not sure on if it works mechanically, but man do I have ideas for character concepts :-)

Also becoming a bigger fan of the Mesmerist.

Overall, as someone that grew up with a Dad into the Occult stuff I'm exceptionally pleased with how they went about Occult Adventures and that they listened to and leaned on Brandon Hodge so heavily for it, one of my favorite pathfinder rules books by far :-)

[Tin Foil Yamakah]

Really, that's good to know. I am trying to hold off on getting it as I have barely looked at Unchained yet.

I dig the Unchained Monk with the exception of the weak will save. Doesn't make much sense to me, so I may tweak that.

[HeHateMe]

KestrelZ wrote:

I prefer old school Marvel Super Heroes RPG to Pathfinder, even if the old Marvel game needs to seriously rework character creation to be useable (I use a homebrew point buy variation).

I still enjoy Pathfinder (and many other RPGs).

I believe there are some retro-clones of that old Marvel rpg.

[Liz Courts]

Removed a post. Please don't encourage pirating of materials.

[Tin Foil Yamakah]

I do not care for trip, grapple, sunder basically any thing to do with CMD

[DrDeth]

Tin Foil Yamakah wrote:

I do not care for trip, grapple, sunder basically any thing to do with CMD

I agree. I hate tripping builds- they slow the game down.

[Terquem]

People are always saying that tripping slows you down, well that's just

Wait a minute....

[The Peyote Tea Gamer]

Whoa!... I know what... you mean man, the trails always slow me down... whoa... you gotta try this!...

[Dragoncat]

Anyway, I have another confession to make.

Of all the APs I've read through, I confess that I think Carrion Crown is Paizo's weakest AP.

Here's my reasons why:

• In my opinion, the first adventure is remarkably well-done. Earning the trust of the townsfolk of Ravengro is an entertaining sidequest that rewards roleplaying and encourages the players to become more immersed in the game world. Unfortunately, the reason given for the PCs to stay in Ravengro is not likely to appeal to every PC, and it's entirely possible for some of the players to decide, in character, to skip town once the funeral is over and done with.

• The overarching plotline for Carrion Crown feels too thin to really hold up under scrutiny. The AP feels more like a bunch of set-pieces connected through a flimsy plotline instead of a coherent, compelling narrative.

  On their own, however, each of them is perfectly fine. Each of them is a self-contained adventure that ties up almost every single loose end the PCs could possibly leave behind while leaving enough for the GM to work into future adventures.

• By the time of the 5th book of the AP, the PCs don't really have a reason to continue trying to stop the bad guys in the way the AP expects them to.
  
  AP Spoilers Ahoy!:

  The plot of Carrion Crown is that the PCs have to chase down a necromancer cult called the Whispering Way and stop them from gathering all the ingredients to complete the construction of the titular artifact, and resurrecting the Whispering Tyrant. One of the ingredients is a mace named Raven's Head, sanctified by the church of Pharasma to be extremely effective against undead. By the end of 'Wake of the Watcher', the PCs have acquired this mace, and are likely powerful enough to start brainstorming ways to destroy/seal away the mace to stop the Whispering Way for good.

  This is where the AP breaks for me--if the characters are powerful enough to start teleporting around with a snap of their fingers, what's stopping them from coming up with a way to take Raven's Head out of the picture for good? Perhaps I'm thinking about it too much...

  
  
• 'Wake of the Watcher' feels like it wandered in from a different AP, and in my opinion, it doesn't mesh well at all with the previous adventures.

  The first half of the AP struck me as being a love letter to old Hammer Horror film monsters: ghosts, Frankenstein's Monster, and werewolves. The 5th book goes back to this, using vampires as it's main selling point.

  What does 'Wake of the Watcher' bring to the table?

  AP Spoilers Ahead!:

  Mi-Go and Shub-Niggurath. Lovecraftian horrors that clash with the threats that were established in previous adventures.

  Where 'Wake of the Watcher' goes wrong for me is that it's such a dramatic shift from classic horror monsters that it feels like it doesn't really belong in Carrion Crown.

[/soapbox]

[thegreenteagamer]

Dragoncat wrote:

The AP feels more like a bunch of set-pieces connected through a flimsy plotline instead of a coherent, compelling narrative.

That's been every AP I've played in. Maybe, just maybe, hiring six writers for one AP and then barely tying the seperately written parts together with an editor's plan isn't the best idea for a single story...

[captain yesterday]

I switched it with The Harrowing because i was running the AP as Harry Potter pathfinder for 9-10 year olds, works splendidly:-)

And i personally like Wake, but i understand the criticism and i like your analysis:-)

[Dragoncat]

captain yesterday wrote:

I switched it with The Harrowing because i was running the AP as Harry Potter pathfinder for 9-10 year olds, works splendidly:-)

And i personally like Wake, but i understand the criticism and i like your analysis:-)

Thanks. :)

Admittedly, I haven't read through Serpent's Skull (though from what I've been able to gather on the boards, it isn't very good either) and I tried reading through Legacy of Fire, but I gave up by the 3rd book because of how dry I found it (no pun intended). I singled these two out because of what I've heard on the boards here.

To be honest, 'Wake of the Watcher' on its own is fine (You want 'Shadow over Innsmouth'? Here it is, with a different coat of paint). Just not in the AP.

[Artemis Moonstar]

thegreenteagamer wrote:

Dragoncat wrote:

The AP feels more like a bunch of set-pieces connected through a flimsy plotline instead of a coherent, compelling narrative.

That's been every AP I've played in. Maybe, just maybe, hiring six writers for one AP and then barely tying the seperately written parts together with an editor's plan isn't the best idea for a single story...

Hear hear!

But....

It's time efficient! Gotta confess that.

Assuming it's not a 3.5 AP that is

I confess: I want to see Paizo re-release their 3.5 APs and modules for their PF ruleset! Some of us don't have the time nor the inclination to modify it ourselves!

I know they claim "collector's value" and that they'd lose money, but... Come on, really? Sure, don't do another "ultimate collector's edition" like with RotRL (which was just... A bad idea, a bad, bad idea. Cool, but from a marketing stand point, very bad idea). They can't, on the other hand, tell me they'd lose money putting out-of-print adventure paths back into print via Print-On-Demand. Might not make as much of a profit, but I know a lot of people who'd saw off their left foot for updated APs.

[thegreenteagamer]

Artemis Moonstar wrote:

thegreenteagamer wrote:

Dragoncat wrote:

The AP feels more like a bunch of set-pieces connected through a flimsy plotline instead of a coherent, compelling narrative.

That's been every AP I've played in. Maybe, just maybe, hiring six writers for one AP and then barely tying the seperately written parts together with an editor's plan isn't the best idea for a single story...

Hear hear!

But....

It's time efficient! Gotta confess that.

Yes...but Paizo has been around long enough where Pathfinder isn't going anywhere. They could have those same six writers work on six different APs with staggered release dates. The first one would take a while to get out, but after that you'd be right back on schedule, provided you keep starting the new APs at a much earlier timeline. You can even use the old system until the first of the new ones is out. It just takes a little foresight and planning, but no more actual work - probably less work, as the editor only has to do actual editing, instead of turning a patchwork into something connected.

...but most corporations rarely, if ever, think beyond the current fiscal year.

[Pan]

Artemis Moonstar wrote:

thegreenteagamer wrote:

Dragoncat wrote:

The AP feels more like a bunch of set-pieces connected through a flimsy plotline instead of a coherent, compelling narrative.

That's been every AP I've played in. Maybe, just maybe, hiring six writers for one AP and then barely tying the seperately written parts together with an editor's plan isn't the best idea for a single story...

Hear hear!

But....

It's time efficient! Gotta confess that.

Assuming it's not a 3.5 AP that is

I confess: I want to see Paizo re-release their 3.5 APs and modules for their PF ruleset! Some of us don't have the time nor the inclination to modify it ourselves!

I know they claim "collector's value" and that they'd lose money, but... Come on, really? Sure, don't do another "ultimate collector's edition" like with RotRL (which was just... A bad idea, a bad, bad idea. Cool, but from a marketing stand point, very bad idea). They can't, on the other hand, tell me they'd lose money putting out-of-print adventure paths back into print via Print-On-Demand. Might not make as much of a profit, but I know a lot of people who'd saw off their left foot for updated APs.

I ran Curse no problems the updating is a cinch to do on the fly. I wouldn't wait around for the update you'll need a cane or a rascal by the time its here.

[Pan]

I agree with the analysis except this part....

Dragoncat wrote:

Here's my reasons why:
Unfortunately, the reason given for the PCs to stay in Ravengro is not likely to appeal to every PC, and it's entirely possible for some of the players to decide, in character, to skip town once the funeral is over and done with.

If this is true I would assume the player didnt utilize the players guide. I get that folks play all kinds of characters but one who would turn their back on a mentor, friend, somebody they owe their life to because they dont dig it and have better things to do seems like blatant campaign derailment. I get that some folks do not like the overarching plot style of APs and desire a more freeform sandbox game. In this case, they probably shouldn't have signed up for an AP in the first place. I think CC has one of the stronger starting adventures that gets very weak for all the reasons you have mentioned. Otherwise spot on Dragoncat.

[Dragoncat]

Fair enough. :)

[Haladir]

My Pathfinder confession: I like Carrion Crown as-is!

The idea of Carrion Crown was to run a Gothic horror AP in the style of the old Universal monster movies of the 1930s, '40s, and '50s. (Frankenstein, Dracula, the Wolf-Man, the Creature from the Black Lagoon, ghost stories, etc.)

My personal belief is that Wake of the Watcher got included mainly so that James Jacobs could get his Lovecraft on, while still being thematically appropriate. The Lovecraft story "The Whisperer in Darkness," which introduced the Mi-Go, blends Gothic horror, cosmic horror, and sci-fi.

I see the individual chapters of the AP as connected in the way that the classic Universal horror movies were all connected. Which is to say: not at all, really, except in mood.

In other words, I don't see this as a bug, but a feature.

[Pan]

Issue is that wake of the watcher wasnt really thematically appropriate and worse it has a near invisible hair linking it to the plot. I am ok with doing a monster of the month AP but CC could have been threaded much better and much stronger. I agree that CC's monster of the week was a feature, however, I am still critical of the execution of the overall AP.

Mummy Mask seems to be benefiting from past experiences which is what I love about the APs. They seem to get better with time yet are still willing to experiment. YMMV.

[bulbaquil]

Confessions:

1. The only reason gnomes exist in my personal campaign setting is because they're a core race and there is a player in my group who would absolutely mutiny if they were removed.

2. Regarding martial/caster disparity, I would rather take nice things away from casters than give them to martials.

3. Notwithstanding #2, I don't see anything wrong with "death is cheap"/revolving door resurrection, and don't think permadeath/super-gritty/"dead is dead" is a fun way to play.

4. As a player, I prefer to stay on the rails more often than not, with only minor deviations. Wide-open sandbox style is difficult for me. When I played Skyrim, the first thing I did was the main quest, with only a few minor excursions into nearby areas or dungeons.

5. I don't see anything wrong with the "standard fantasy setting", nor with having technological (near-)stasis. Technologically speaking, my campaign setting is stuck roughly in a time loop from 8th century Europe to 18th century Europe and back again.

6. I would honestly be fine playing in a campaign where the only allowed races are human, elf, and dwarf. Actually, I'd be fine playing in a campaign where the only allowed race is a single one of those three.

7. It has always bothered me that devil-spawn tieflings have a -2 on Charisma. I would swap their bonuses/penalties with the kyton-spawn.

8. Just because a new book, supplement, or even errata has been published does not make me feel obligated to immediately allow/account for it in my games.

9. I still haven't decided whether my female dwarves have beards or not. Maybe I'll settle for stubble?

[dkonen]

Confession:

My husband is my favorite DM and I find him giving threads to everyone else but me for fear of favoritism.

I hate running or playing in modules

As a DM I prefer high level than low level games.

I love running save the world games.

I can only ever successfully run evil games for some reason.

I prefer running PF as 3.x backwards compatible, more options means more individuality among the characters in my game.

I love it when players go off the rails.

I only use the errata I like

I like playing "unique" characters, but the more bonuses the character has, the more likely I am to have them indentured to another player to keep them low key and out of the centre of things.

I will find rules to support what I want to do, rather than rule 0 it.

I will never throw plot to an inactive or utterly passive player.

[MMCJawa]

I have to confess being extraordinarly interested in threads that get modded, which half the time increases with Chris Lamberts description of why the thread got modded.

[EntrerisShadow]

MMCJawa wrote:

I have to confess being extraordinarly interested in threads that get modded, which half the time increases with Chris Lamberts description of why the thread got modded.

That. Especially when he mentions deleting posts.

WHAT DID THEY SAY?!

Also:

I love gnomes and would probably the player to mutiny if they were removed.

I like silliness and light fantasy. I knew 4E would not be for me when they replaced Gnomes with Tieflings as a core race.

[Zhangar]

@ thegreenteagamer - The AP developers are doing more than just editing the chapters together - they're also normally writing support articles, writing up new rules, and also messing around with the manuscripts to add newer rules content.

I have a hunch that trying to write the APS 3 three years in advance wouldn't work at all with how the APs are actually developed, or worse would actually make the burden significantly heavier - because that manuscript written three years in advance now has to be completely rewritten to account for new rules, etc.

Like, say, if Iron Gods had been written two years ahead of the Technology Guide, which codifies most of the new rules used in Iron Gods.

[Kalindlara]

EntrerisShadow wrote:

MMCJawa wrote:

I have to confess being extraordinarly interested in threads that get modded, which half the time increases with Chris Lamberts description of why the thread got modded.

That. Especially when she mentions deleting posts.

WHAT DID THEY SAY?!

Minor correction. ^_^

(I made the same mistake for a couple of months.)

Other than that, 100% agree. I'm drawn to forum drama...

[Scythia]

EntrerisShadow wrote:

MMCJawa wrote:

I have to confess being extraordinarly interested in threads that get modded, which half the time increases with Chris Lamberts description of why the thread got modded.

That. Especially when he mentions deleting posts.

WHAT DID THEY SAY?!

BUT WHO WAS POST?

I know exactly what you mean. When I notice a conversation I've been reading has been modded, if I saw what was removed beforehand it makes me feel like I have secret info, but if it happened before I read the posts I feel like I missed something.

[captain yesterday]

I have to admit I was way more jazzed about the subscriber tag then I probably should, now my new thing is to see how long it takes them to ship all the way from Seattle :-)

[captain yesterday]

Lot of similarities between Curse of the Crimson Throne and Hell's Rebels so far, I know it's still only the first book but still :-)

[captain yesterday]

I don't think I've ever voted for RPG Superstar, I think I tried one year but that was in our old computer and was slow as s+!& so I stopped and now I'm mostly on my phone so that's no good, maybe next year :-)

[lucky7]

I wanted to vote, but couldn't figure out how to sign up.

[Haladir]

More PFRPG confessions...

1) I blatantly steal encounters and maps from published adventures in my home games.

2) I don't enjoy sandbox-style campaigns, but I love it when my players go off on a tangent and try something totally unexpected.

3) I regularly adjust the plot based on what my PCs are doing. That throwaway NPC they just started hating for some reason? Okay, now he's a major villain. Chasing a red herring and "deducing" the bad guy's elaborate master plan? Okay, now that is his master plan! Grabbed onto an ad-libbed line that was just window-dressing, and now think there's a deep, dark mystery involving the Old Bridge? Now there's a deep, dark mystery involving the Old Bridge!

Hey, this stuff writes itself!

4) I spend WAY too much money on PF stuff!

[Aniuś the Talewise]

Dear pathfinder confessional, I have terrible taste in anime

[Set]

captain yesterday wrote:

I confess, I love their are no Mind Flayers or Beholders in Pathfinder :-)

Love mind flayers. Never liked beholders or those gith races. Good riddance to those modrons! Giant space hamsters were less silly!

The only loss from 3.X monster IP I still mourn is the displacer beast. I have a weird love for those guys.

[lucky7]

I tried getting into anime, but around 12 episodes I always ragequitted.

[Tin Foil Yamakah]

I saw a thread on this and it reminded me that I do not care for Animal companions, Improved familiars, Leadership feat, anything that adds another action for a PC.

[captain yesterday]

I never allow Leadership, never ever.

I don't mind animal companions so much but I GM for my family or daughter's friends, once had a party full of druids with animal companions but never sent them in to combat for fear they might get hurt. A bear, a panther, a badger and lion might get hurt :-)

[DrDeth]

Tin Foil Yamakah wrote:

I saw a thread on this and it reminded me that I do not care for Animal companions, Improved familiars, Leadership feat, anything that adds another action for a PC.

A little extreme, but once our table gets to six, we dont allow them either. Mounts or regular familiars, anything not used in combat- sure.

And even when we only have five, the limit is two per person, counting summoned creatures.

[thegreenteagamer]

I switched to Savage Worlds and don't miss Pathfinder at all. I do wish PEGinc had as good a forum as Paizo...

[Tin Foil Yamakah]

Quote:

I never allow Leadership, never ever.

As long as no mechanical advantage is gained, I have no problem with characters having followers and such.

Quote:

A little extreme, but once our table gets to six, we don't allow them either. Mounts or regular familiars, anything not used in combat- sure.

We have 5 players and 4 hours per session, so no summoning or extra critters running around. Mounts and regular familiars not a problem.

[Scythia]

Aniuś the Talewise wrote:

Dear pathfinder confessional, I have terrible taste in anime

I think we all have a couple of series that we don't exactly trumpet our fandom of.

[Trekkie90909]

lucky7 wrote:

I wanted to vote, but couldn't figure out how to sign up.

You're not missing anything, but if you want to vote you just follow the RPG SS link on the left side of the screen then hit the big "Vote Now!" button in the middle of the screen.