Ruling for false life and similar temporary HP buffs

[ryathas ruyonin-shar]

Are the temporary HPs received from false life stackable with other spells, effects, etc? i.e.) false life, vampiric touch, sword of life stealing

[ryathas ruyonin-shar]

bump

[Kochean]

If the sources of the temp HP are different, i.e. different spells then yes. If you cast false life once a second casting will not stack onto the first one, it will just refill the temp hp.

Now if you cast False life (10) then aid (6) you would gain 16 temp HP.

[ryathas ruyonin-shar]

Kochean wrote:

If the sources of the temp HP are different, i.e. different spells then yes. If you cast false life once a second casting will not stack onto the first one, it will just refill the temp hp.

Now if you cast False life (10) then aid (6) you would gain 16 temp HP.

Thanks!

[kyrt-ryder]

ryathas ruyonin-shar wrote:

Kochean wrote:

If the sources of the temp HP are different, i.e. different spells then yes. If you cast false life once a second casting will not stack onto the first one, it will just refill the temp hp.

Now if you cast False life (10) then aid (6) you would gain 16 temp HP.

Thanks!

While in all likelihood it's a reasonable solution, it's not RAW.

By the rules temporary HP never stacks, you only get the biggest instance of it.

[Zaister]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

While in all likelihood it's a reasonable solution, it's not RAW.

By the rules temporary HP never stacks, you only get the biggest instance of it.

Can you quote a rule for this?

[kyrt-ryder]

Zaister wrote:

kyrt-ryder wrote:

While in all likelihood it's a reasonable solution, it's not RAW.

By the rules temporary HP never stacks, you only get the biggest instance of it.

Can you quote a rule for this?

Since my corerulebook and Bestiary have disappeared on me for the time being and a thorough search of the PRD reveals nothing, no, I can't. Hopefully somebody will come along and cite a page number.

[ryathas ruyonin-shar]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Zaister wrote:

kyrt-ryder wrote:

While in all likelihood it's a reasonable solution, it's not RAW.

By the rules temporary HP never stacks, you only get the biggest instance of it.

Can you quote a rule for this?

Since my corerulebook and Bestiary have disappeared on me for the time being and a thorough search of the PRD reveals nothing, no, I can't. Hopefully somebody will come along and cite a page number.

Yes, if someone else knows where this is cited, please post.

[Celestial Half-Porc]

PRD wrote:

Temporary Hit Points

Certain effects give a character temporary hit points. These hit points are in addition to the character's current hit point total and any damage taken by the character is subtracted from these hit points first. Any damage in excess of a character's temporary hit points is applied to his current hit points as normal. If the effect that grants the temporary hit points ends or is dispelled, any remaining temporary hit points go away. The damage they sustained is not transferred to the character's current hit points.

When temporary hit points are lost, they cannot be restored as real hit points can be, even by magic.

Nothing about stacking or multiple effects.

[tejón]

My understanding has always been that multiple sources of temporary hit points overlap. I can't find a source for this either, though. Maybe it was Sage or FAQ?

[Snakey]

PFPRD wrote:

Temporary Hit Points

Certain effects give a character temporary hit points. These hit points are in addition to the character's current hit point total and any damage taken by the character is subtracted from these hit points first. Any damage in excess of a character's temporary hit points is applied to his current hit points as normal. If the effect that grants the temporary hit points ends or is dispelled, any remaining temporary hit points go away. The damage they sustained is not transferred to the character's current hit points.

When temporary hit points are lost, they cannot be restored as real hit points can be, even by magic.

It doesn't say they don't stack...

[Maezer]

Its in the 3.5 FAQ. Not going to argue the legitimacy or lack there for the FAQ in this thread. The logic behind the stacking is debated at length in the various shield threads. Here's the quote temporary hit points for those interested on how WotC interpreted the text that is shared word for word between the Pathfinder SRD and the 3.5 SRD.

Quote:

Do temporary hit points from two applications of the same effect stack? What about from different effects? If I have temporary hit points from multiple sources, how should I apply damage?

Temporary hit points from two applications of the same effect don’t stack; instead, the highest number of temporary hit points applies in place of all others. Temporary hit points from different sources stack, but you must keep track of themm separately.

For example, imagine a character who gained 15 temporary hit points from an aid spell. After taking 8 points of damage, she has 7 temporary hit points left from the spell. If another aid spell were cast on the same character granting 12 temporary hit points, this total would replace the other spell’s total, meaning the character would now have 12 temporary hit points (rather than 19). If the character then cast false life on herself, she would add the full benefit of that spell to the temporary hit points from the aid spell.

This also applies to temporary hit points gained from energy drain and similar special abilities. Each successful attack counts as one application of the effect (meaning that an attack that bestows 2 or more negative levels still counts as only one application of the effect). For example, a wight gains 5 temporary hit points each time it bestows a negative level with its slam attack. If it bestows another negative level while it has 2 temporary hit points remaining from the first attack, the new temporary hit points would replace the old ones.

Temporary hit points are “first-in, first-out.” Damage should be taken off the oldest temporary-hit-point-granting effect first; when that effect is exhausted, apply damage to the next oldest effect. For this reason, you must track each supply of temporary hit points separately.

[kyrt-ryder]

Maezer wrote:

Quotes the 3.5 FAQ

That is weird, but interesting.

We've always thought it simply meant it didn't stack at all, but by my interpretation of this, they kind of do.

(Though I THINK, that damage that depletes one source of temporary HP applies the remainder to the person's HP before the next source counts after the end of that attack, but I could be reading it wrong)

[Kaisoku]

Here's how I read it:

Base hitpoints: 10
Aid spell: 12 (cast first)
False Life: 10 (cast second)

If the person was hit with 5 damage, reduce Aid spell's temporary hitpoints to 7.
If the person was hit with 20 damage, reduce Aid spell's hitpoints to 0 and False Life's to 2.
If the person was hit with 30 damage, remove all temporary hitpoints, and he has 2 hitpoints left.

You track it like that so if you recast Aid or False Life, you know which temporary hitpoints you are replacing.

[tejón]

Well, I'll be jiggered. Nice!

[Remco Sommeling]

For the sake of ease and aoiding players seeking out as many different sources of temporary hitpoints I rule you only get it once unless the effect states otherwise

[Ravingdork]

In every other d20 game I've ever played, temporary hit points don't normally stack. There is no reason to treat them differently here. Allowing them to stack can only lead to possible abuses (whereas treating them like they've always been treated in other systems can only yield the same results that we've had in those other systems).

I'd argue that since you "take damage to the temp hp first" that it takes the damage from ALL source of temp hp simultaneously (as there is no real order to it other than "first").

For example, you have 10 hp, 5 temp hp from X ability and 10 temp hp from Y ability. Somebody hits you for 4 damage. The numbers now change to 10 base/1X/6Y. Had they hit you for 7 damage, they would be 10 base/0X/3Y.

In effect, they don't stack.

[tejón]

Ravingdork wrote:

I'd argue that since you "take damage to the temp hp first" that it takes the damage from ALL source of temp hp simultaneously (as there is no real order to it other than "first").

This has always been how I ruled, and may continue to be; but it does look like the other reading is strongly supported by the text. Food for thought.