What's the Story on the Warlock?


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Hello all,
I just started playing Pathfinder, never played 3.0, 3.5 or the current 4th, it's just been 1st and 2nd ed. AD&D.
Just picked up some 3.5 books and came across the Warlock in the Complete Arcane. I like the class and most of it's powers/abilities such as the eldritch blast, what I read as no limit per day using it, I understand they are very limited on spells/inate abilities though.

The question I have is what is the problem with bringing in a warlock to a pathfinder game? (with gm's okay of course)
I know some of the class skills are not in pathfinder, like jump for instance but acrobatics could be substituted in it's place, so forth and so on.

What I'm asking is what makes this class overpowering?
To a lot of you it's probably as plain as the nose on your face but with me still being very new to this system, I'm stumped.

By the way, seen the warlock in the tome of secrets, didn't care for it.

Grand Lodge

There is nothing wrong with the Warlock. Most gamers consider it a little too cool at lower levels and a little too underpowered at high levels but overall it's not too unbalanced.

(What gets tricky is when you multiclass into a combat role and take the invocation Hideous Blow -- then you're a fighter with an eldritch blast in your weapon 1 swing per round)

As far as Pathfinder goes, because the Warlock class is not Open Content Paizo can't do it the way 3.5 has it, that's all. But it should not be too much trouble to convert it into Pathfinder.

Shadow Lodge

Most people would see the eldritch blast(an at-will ranged touch attack) as overpowering, especially when you compare it to the abilities other classes get at first level.

But, the class as a whole is weak when you compare it to the other classes as a whole, because it lacks the versatility/staying power of the other classes.

Rogues: Can find traps better than almost anyone, get nice rogue tricks, can take no damage from area attacks at higher levels.

Bards: Can buff everyone, provide emergency healing, and can be a good at ranged and/or melee combat

Barbarians: Can do large amounts of damage, has d12's, moves faster, and gains DR/everything.

Sorcerer: Has a lot of spells per day, which can be used for blasting, buffing, battlefield control, stealth, and debuffing.

Warlocks: Cannot buff at all, has limited number of invocations known(which can be used for faster movement and battlefield control), gets DR/cold iron, can get fast healing 1-5 for two minutes once a day

Looking at it that way, I'd only play the Warlock for flavor. Still a nice class.


W E Ray wrote:
(What gets tricky is when you multiclass into a combat role and take the invocation Hideous Blow -- then you're a fighter with an eldritch blast in your weapon 1 swing per round)

Actually, hideous blow is godawful. It provokes attacks of opportunity like nearly every other invocation, and you cannot hold the charge like you can with a touch spell; you have to make the melee attack right away. You also only get one attack a round from it, and said attack is not a touch attack, so it's really a pretty crappy attack option.

Now, eldritch glaive solves those problems. It doesn't provoke, remains a touch attack, and you can use your BAB for iterative attacks with it as well as make attacks of opportunity with it. The downside is that it's a reach weapon. That's from Dragon Magic, for the record.

Shadow Lodge

Zurai wrote:
Now, eldritch glaive solves those problems. It doesn't provoke, remains a touch attack, and you can use your BAB for iterative attacks with it as well as make attacks of opportunity with it. The downside is that it's a reach weapon. That's from Dragon Magic, for the record.

The Short Haft feat(from PHB2) solves that problem by allowing you to make reach weapons non-reach weapons. It stays that way until you use an action to give it reach again.


I played a Warlock once!

It was... disappointing to say the least.

DM: What do you do on your turn?

Me: *sighs* Eldritch Blast... again.


Dork Lord wrote:

I played a Warlock once!

It was... disappointing to say the least.

DM: What do you do on your turn?

Me: *sighs* Eldritch Blast... again.

It's definately a one trick pony, but not alot more then say a 2 weapon figther. who is always trying to full attack, or a ranger archer who is always plinking arrows about. I think its uninteresting compared to a caster, but compared to a meleer its probably equaly low in options.

Scarab Sages

Warlocks rock.
They are pretty versatile.
Great to add some multi-class abilities into it.
A warlock/rogue is a great skill monkey.
The UMD skill of the warlock, along with its 'take 10' on UMD rolls, can be really really useful.


Zurai wrote:
W E Ray wrote:
(What gets tricky is when you multiclass into a combat role and take the invocation Hideous Blow -- then you're a fighter with an eldritch blast in your weapon 1 swing per round)

Actually, hideous blow is godawful. It provokes attacks of opportunity like nearly every other invocation, and you cannot hold the charge like you can with a touch spell; you have to make the melee attack right away. You also only get one attack a round from it, and said attack is not a touch attack, so it's really a pretty crappy attack option.

Now, eldritch glaive solves those problems. It doesn't provoke, remains a touch attack, and you can use your BAB for iterative attacks with it as well as make attacks of opportunity with it. The downside is that it's a reach weapon. That's from Dragon Magic, for the record.

Is the spell "eldritch glaive" in both The Complete Mage & Dragon Magic books or just the Dragon Magic book?


So far as I know, Dragon Magic and Complete Mage have no overlap whatsoever between their spell lists or invocation lists. For sure, the eldritch glaive invocation is only in Dragon Magic.


Also almost forgot,
Thanks for all those that replied to the post.


Zurai wrote:
So far as I know, Dragon Magic and Complete Mage have no overlap whatsoever between their spell lists or invocation lists. For sure, the eldritch glaive invocation is only in Dragon Magic.

Thanks for the quick reply Zurai.

I ordered the Dragon Magic book and already have the complete mage, just wondering.


Carpe Diem wrote:

Hello all,

I just started playing Pathfinder, never played 3.0, 3.5 or the current 4th, it's just been 1st and 2nd ed. AD&D.
Just picked up some 3.5 books and came across the Warlock in the Complete Arcane. I like the class and most of it's powers/abilities such as the eldritch blast, what I read as no limit per day using it, I understand they are very limited on spells/inate abilities though.

The question I have is what is the problem with bringing in a warlock to a pathfinder game? (with gm's okay of course)
I know some of the class skills are not in pathfinder, like jump for instance but acrobatics could be substituted in it's place, so forth and so on.

What I'm asking is what makes this class overpowering?
To a lot of you it's probably as plain as the nose on your face but with me still being very new to this system, I'm stumped.

By the way, seen the warlock in the tome of secrets, didn't care for it.

The main thing that makes warlocks exceedingly broken is the Shattering word invocation.

You don't think so?

Think about this: Shatter destroys, without save, unattended objects of a certain weight. Given time and effort, a single warlock with the engineering skill can weaken a castle's foundation, invisibly fly into a castle and destroy or weaken siege equipment, collapse caves, and burst open chests and doors at distance.

They can also use shatter on objects - such as weapons, armor, spell component pouches, clothing, etc. These get saves....but if the save is failed, the object is destroyed, period.

Also, if you multiclass a warlock and a binder, you can end up with a batman-style character that is actually better than a wizard.


Mnemaxa wrote:

The main thing that makes warlocks exceedingly broken is the Shattering word invocation.

You don't think so?

Think about this: Shatter destroys, without save, unattended objects of a certain weight. Given time and effort, a single warlock with the engineering skill can weaken a castle's foundation, invisibly fly into a castle and destroy or weaken siege equipment, collapse caves, and burst open chests and doors at distance.

They can also use shatter on objects - such as weapons, armor, spell component pouches, clothing, etc. These get saves....but if the save is failed, the object is destroyed, period.

Shattering word is nice, but not broken.

Given time and effort, anyone with a pickaxe can do anything that you described in your first paragraph and more, because they aren't limited to objects weighing 10lbs/level.

As for the second, remember that sundered objects are not automatically destroyed in Pathfinder. They gain the broken condition instead. Also remember that shatter doesn't work on any magical object.


I don't like the warlock much: The only thing it has going for it is a different rules mechanic - one that doesn't really fit into the game's philosophy and which turned out to be a beta-test for 4e.

The flavour (sealing pacts with otherworldly forces) can be achieved just as well with the sorcerer, or maybe with Pact Magic.

The sorcerer has the advantage that he fits the game really well, too, and you don't have to do the pact thing if you don't want to.


KaeYoss wrote:
which turned out to be a beta-test for 4e.

No. Complete Arcane was released in August 2004. Tome of Battle, which was a beta test for 4E, was released two full years later. I'm about 99% sure that work on 4E hadn't even reached conceptualization in 2004.


KaeYoss wrote:

I don't like the warlock much: The only thing it has going for it is a different rules mechanic - one that doesn't really fit into the game's philosophy and which turned out to be a beta-test for 4e.

The flavour (sealing pacts with otherworldly forces) can be achieved just as well with the sorcerer, or maybe with Pact Magic.

The sorcerer has the advantage that he fits the game really well, too, and you don't have to do the pact thing if you don't want to.

To be honest, I see the warlock fitting in the Pathfinder environment wonderfully. As a dm & player for over 25+ years and running Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms campaigns not to mention various other worlds/realms/games systems, I've been surprised by how easily adaptable/acceptable the Golarion world is without changing story/history for many different classes, but then again Paizo did set this up to support 3.5. Not trying to start a flame war, just my personal thoughts on it.

Grand Lodge

Zurai wrote:
Actually, hideous blow is godawful. It provokes attacks of opportunity like nearly every other invocation, and you cannot hold the charge like you can with a touch spell; you have to make the melee attack right away. You also only get one attack a round from it, and said attack is not a touch attack, so it's really a pretty crappy attack option.

Hmmm,

I'll be the first to say I'm terrible with rules in many situations and it's very possible that I've been doing it wrong -- maybe even likely, but...

Hideous Blow lets you put your Eldritch Blast in your melee weapon, yes? So if I'm a fighter with 3 attacks I'll put the Eldritch Blast in the first attack and then still have the other two (right?).

If my first attack misses I lose the Eldritch Blast. If the NPC I'm fighting has SR then even if my first attack hits I have to roll again for spell penetration; if I don't beat his SR then I lose the Eldritch Blast.

It seems the only way this wouldn't work like this is if you have to use separate Standard Actions to put the Eldritch Blast into your weapon and then swing your weapon (eliminating full attack option in the process). But doesn't that defeat the purpose of the Hideous Blow completely?!

What have other folks done?


Zurai wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:
which turned out to be a beta-test for 4e.
No. Complete Arcane was released in August 2004. Tome of Battle, which was a beta test for 4E, was released two full years later. I'm about 99% sure that work on 4E hadn't even reached conceptualization in 2004.

Some of the design ideas such as a at-will base attack that scales up with levels clearly influenced the change to at-will, encounter, daily in 4e even if it (and Iron Heroes which also was a clear influence) clearly preceded actual work on 4e.

I think the Warlock would need significant number of buffs to keep pace with pathfinder base classes as other ranged striker class options (archer fighters, archer rangers) would probably outclass them at mid to high level.


W E Ray wrote:
But doesn't that defeat the purpose of the Hideous Blow completely?!

Yes, and WotC pretty much admitted that when they printed eldritch glaive and totally obsoleted hideous blow. You're better of just using a plain eldritch blast over hideous blow anyway -- they both provoke, but at least eldritch blast hits touch AC, which is important as a medium BAB character.


vuron wrote:
Some of the design ideas such as a at-will base attack that scales up with levels clearly influenced the change to at-will, encounter, daily in 4e even if it (and Iron Heroes which also was a clear influence) clearly preceded actual work on 4e.

And by preceding actual work on 4E, it cannot be considered a beta test. Beta tests come near the end of the development cycle, not before the cycle has even started. It may have helped with the conceptualization of 4E, but it was very much not a "beta test" for it.


Well, if you happen to be a warlock/rogue with good Concentration, you can flank a target, make the DC 15 check to avoid an AoO and then sneak attack & eldritch blast in the same action for lots of d6s.


Arakhor wrote:
Well, if you happen to be a warlock/rogue with good Concentration, you can flank a target, make the DC 15 check to avoid an AoO and then sneak attack & eldritch blast in the same action for lots of d6s.

But a lot fewer d6s than if you'd just been a straight-class rogue and full attacked. Eldritch blast has a slower progression than sneak attack and you can only fire one per round.

Sczarni

Just my 2c, I adapted the Warlock to PF by incorporating onto it some of the flavor an abilities that warlock specific (the few that existed) PrC used to give (Demonbinder, hellfire warlock, eldritch disciple, eldirtch theurge). The result was a pretty cool class that fills the GISH roll in my games. Just give it d8 HD and increase slightly the number of shape an essence invocations and you should be good.


Carpe Diem wrote:


To be honest, I see the warlock fitting in the Pathfinder environment wonderfully. As a dm & player for over 25+ years and running Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms

I meant Pathfinder as in Pathfinder RPG (sorry, I should have been more precise).

Magic isn't really meant to be at will (even a dragon sorcerer's claws are limited - even though I would have let those be infinite).

I consider at will magic to be something that should be decided at system level - either your magic works like that, or it doesn't. No mixing magic that is cast at will with stuff that is cast once per day/battle or something like that - especially if one class is getting at will and the other limited.

Of course, I didn't think the warlock to be too fitting into 3.5e, either. Its flavour was stealing from the sorcerer (but PF set that right by killing the warlock and taking his flavour).


Zurai wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:
which turned out to be a beta-test for 4e.
No. Complete Arcane was released in August 2004. Tome of Battle, which was a beta test for 4E, was released two full years later.

Call it alpha test then, hair-splitter :P

Zurai wrote:


I'm about 99% sure that work on 4E hadn't even reached conceptualization in 2004.

They knew it pretty well in advance, of that I'm sure. And they kept preparing their worlds for assimilation, and tested out rules ideas long before they started to write up the stuff in earnest.


W E Ray wrote:


I'll be the first to say I'm terrible with rules...
Hideous Blow lets you put your Eldritch Blast in your melee weapon, yes? So if I'm a fighter with 3 attacks I'll put the Eldritch Blast in the first attack and then still have the other two (right?).

Let me be the second to say that...

Hideous Blow is a standard action.


I personally haven't played a warlock, but my friends have, and love them. I hope they create an equivalent for Pathfinder Cores


Kolokotroni wrote:
Dork Lord wrote:

I played a Warlock once!

It was... disappointing to say the least.

DM: What do you do on your turn?

Me: *sighs* Eldritch Blast... again.

It's definately a one trick pony, but not alot more then say a 2 weapon figther. who is always trying to full attack, or a ranger archer who is always plinking arrows about. I think its uninteresting compared to a caster, but compared to a meleer its probably equaly low in options.

At least with the melee fighter you can creatively describe each sword swing, which can be fun... especially at lower levels. Not to mention, the most you can do with an EB is 10d6.... that's potentially 10 damage.

...and at least the Fighter gets to add his Strength bonus to his weapon damage, plus any enhancements/elemental damage from his weapon. With the Warlock, it's just 10d6 max... which with a bad roll could be utter crap.

That's one of the main reasons I didn't enjoy playing one.


Dork Lord wrote:


At least with the melee fighter you can creatively describe each sword swing, which can be fun... especially at lower levels. Not to mention, the most you can do with an EB is 10d6.... that's potentially 10 damage.

...and at least the Fighter gets to add his Strength bonus to his weapon damage, plus any enhancements/elemental damage from his weapon. With the Warlock, it's just 10d6 max... which with a bad roll could be utter crap.

That's one of the main reasons I didn't enjoy playing one.

At high levels, they run out of steam. But at level 5, a warlock is doing 3d6 as a touch attack, which compares reasonably well with a level 5 fighter, in my experience.


Dork Lord wrote:
At least with the melee fighter you can creatively describe each sword swing, which can be fun... especially at lower levels. Not to mention, the most you can do with an EB is 10d6.... that's potentially 10 damage.

Actually, there are quite a few ways to up damage. Hellfire Warlock adds 6d6. I believe there's an item that adds 2d6. I believe there's at least one invocation that adds 2d6. You can get the damage to be pretty significant, for infinite-use.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

I played a warlock once from 8th to 19th-20th or so. I spent a lot of time invisible and either flying or clinging to the ceiling, locking down the badguys with freezing tentacles, and sniping with eldritch blasts. It was a lot of fun, and my character was mostly untouchable. Folks see eldritch blast and assume that a warlock is supposed to be a party's main damage dealer. They aren't. For the most part, eldritch blast is for applying reliable (typeless ranged touch) damage to decisive points in the battle (bosses, enemy spellcasters, etc.), possibly with some minor debuffs attached.

Is it overpowered? If half the people say it's too awesome, and the other half say it's sucky and worthless, it's probably good design.

Warlock abilities are too limited to break a combat. But they can break other things. The one warlock trick that comes to mind is that you can use Imbue Item with UMD and Scribe Scroll to create ANY scroll. You don't even need Scribe Scroll yourself, since any 1st level wizard can collaborate on item creation with you and provide the feat. So if you have a wizard buddy, the two of you can scribe any scroll he wants to have in his spellbook.

Dark Archive

Charlie Bell wrote:
I played a warlock once from 8th to 19th-20th or so. I spent a lot of time invisible and either flying or clinging to the ceiling, locking down the badguys with freezing tentacles, and sniping with eldritch blasts. It was a lot of fun, and my character was mostly untouchable. Folks see eldritch blast and assume that a warlock is supposed to be a party's main damage dealer. They aren't.

Yes, they are similar to monks, rangers, and rogues in that regard. They are there to keep the enemy occupied while the cleric buffs the fighter to lay down the ultimate smackdaown.


Viletta Vadim wrote:
You can get the damage to be pretty significant, for infinite-use.

Not compared to any class whose actual purpose is to kill things with damage. Paladins, Fighters, Rangers, Barbarians, and Rogues will all vastly out-damage any Warlock not using eldritch glaive. At best the Warlock is dealing 9d6 (base) + 2d6 (greater chasuble of fell power) + 4d6 (all 5 daily charges of a warlock's scepter used at once) + 4d6 (all 3 daily charges of a pair of gloves of eldritch admixture) + 6d6 (Hellfire Warlock) damage. That's 25d6, or 2.5 successful attacks from a level 20 Rogue with no strength bonus and a weapon that deals 0 damage. It's also a complete nova and only usable once per day; after that one attack, the damage potential drops to 17d6. And that is only sustainable with some loophole exploiting to automatically cure Con damage without expending resources (Binder level 1 being the most common).

So, really, in the grand scheme of things, damage is NOT a Warlock's strong suit. They're excellent at battlefield control with a secondary focus of stealth/trickery. Damage is a distant third to those two.


Charlie Bell wrote:
So if you have a wizard buddy, the two of you can scribe any scroll he wants to have in his spellbook.

Not true. Scrolls created with a Warlock's help are neither Arcane nor Divine and cannot be scribed into spellbooks. Furthermore, anyone who wants to use them must make a UMD check to do so.


Where is Eldritch Glaive printed? I can't seem to find it.


Charlie Bell wrote:
Warlock abilities are too limited to break a combat. But they can break other things. The one warlock trick that comes to mind is that you can use Imbue Item with UMD and Scribe Scroll to create ANY scroll. You don't even need Scribe Scroll yourself, since any 1st level wizard can collaborate on item creation with you and provide the feat. So if you have a wizard buddy, the two of you can scribe any scroll he wants to have in his spellbook.

Screw the Wizard. Party with an Archivist. They can learn any divine spell, the Geomancer PrC can convert any arcane spell to divine, and you can make any scroll from any class. Meaning you can make all divine scrolls directly, as well as divine versions of all arcane spells.

Zurai wrote:
Not true. Scrolls created with a Warlock's help are neither Arcane nor Divine and cannot be scribed into spellbooks. Furthermore, anyone who wants to use them must make a UMD check to do so.

That's Artificer.

Arakhor wrote:
Where is Eldritch Glaive printed? I can't seem to find it.

Dragon Magic.


The idea that people think a warlock is overpowered just blows my g$&@@#n mind.

Almost as much as thinking that warlock was in some way a test of 4e, a system that wouldn't come out for another 4 years.

In the end, warlock as it stands alone is incredibly weak. When mixed with MIC, Hellfire Warlock, perhaps a metamagic SLA feat, and a cleric or item who can cure ability damage, it becomes strong...but at that point you aren't buffing the class, you're putting it on life support.


Viletta Vadim wrote:
That's Artificer.

No, it's both.


Aaugh, stupid post-monster ate my post... teach me not to ctrl+C before I hit submit...

Anyway, I'm playing a slightly modified shadow-themed warlock in a mostly-PF game; I've got the sorcerer's cantrips instead of just Detect Magic, plus the Dark template (I could've just picked up Invisibility, but wanted to play with HiPS).

It's fun--unlimited flight and uber stealth are a blast, and they make me slippery as hell in combat, I think I've only been hit once or twice ever because most foes can't find me or reach me. Call of the beast, Darkness, and Otherworldly whispers give me a mixed bag of tricks that are only situationally useful but nice to have. Plus, since I'm playing with folks who aren't as savvy with non-core stuff as I am, it's a kick to watch them try to figure out how I do what I do.

However, combat gets really old sometimes because I'm basically limited to hiding and sniping, hiding and sniping. I deal reliable damage and almost always hit, but with one single-target attack per round I can't compare to the cleric's Flame Strike or the wild-shaped druid's or TWF fighter's full-attack. On the other hand, my options aren't much more limited than the archer-ranger I played before. As soon as I get Greater Invocations I'm grabbing Chilling Tentacles, both for more options in combat and to see the look on my friends' faces when I pull that one outta my bag... I may also grab Eldritch Glaive, not sure yet.

Role-wise in my group (a cleric, druid, fighter, ranger, and rogue), I'm the stealthy skill-monkey and Knowledge master. The druid, ranger, and rogue could probably outshine me in some of those areas but they're being played by newbies who still don't entirely understand their potential, and I'm the only high-Int character in the group (I think the rogue might have a 12 Int, but everyone else is 10 or lower, and for some reason they're all frustrated by their lack of skill points...). I probably could've created a more combat-effective character by picking up different debuffing invocations, but I was going for a theme. Also, my UMD would be cool except we're playing in a low-magic world where we've found exactly three magic items so far (and we're 9th level), so it's sort of going to waste.

Honestly, I could've created basically the same character as a sorcerer (maybe multiclassed with rogue and/or shadowdancer) and had more options in combat. I'm used to playing casters, but I've been wanting to try out the warlock for a while. The lack of bookkeeping is a plus, but I miss the variety of spells that even a sorcerer gets. On the other hand, there are certain abilities that I've always wanted to use at will (flight and pew-pew lazors, for example) because I read too many comic books, and the vancian system has rubbed me the wrong way since 2E.


I'm with all those voting down warlocks as overpowered. Their damage is nothing, and none of their spell effects are anything close to gamebreaking.

What NPC villain warlocks do well is piss the hell out of players. With the fey heritage feats (if I'm remembering the line correctly) increasing their DR, even low level warlocks could easily have DR 5/cold iron.

That's not bad on it's own, but when combined with at-will abilities like invisibility, or worse, darkness + ability to see in magical darkness, they're almost impossible for a party to come to solid grips with for long enough to kill them. A warlock is worse than a cockroach as a recurring villain.

With all their social/enchantment powers, they're also hell on a party trying to track down their schemes in urban-type investigations :)


The warlock's Damage isn't terribly important. Trying to do alot of damage with them is more of a trap than anything else. The thing thats useful with them is the ability to /chain/ your EB and then apply some of the debuff Essences to it. Nauseating opponents and all that stuff seems relatively minor but some of them are really rather nice. Sure- youare never owning the battlefield like wizards can do in later levels but its still quite fun, especially if you take a small but diverse set of debuffs to apply.

"I want to do lots of damage" then Warlock isn't for you. The debuffs are rather nice though.

-S


After playing many D20 games, I have found that the Warlock fits best into games where the Sorcerer is made obsulete by another class(es).

For example, the Iron Kingdoms game treats wizards as normal arcane casters that must be part of a guild, or they are frowned apon, but sorcerers are seen as eldritch forbidden magic casters, even if they aren't, and sorcery is hunted by a very large and powerful religeon.

I see the Warlock as a good substitute for the Sorcerer in this respect.

I haven't actually played a warlock yet, but looking at the class, they don't seem all that bad to me.

Just my 2 cp.


I have always liked the Warlock, and have played with the class several times.
I have never found it to be over powered, and often found it to be slightly under powered when compared to other classes.

The version released for Pathfinder in Tome of Secrets is a good starting point, although it lacks the "flair" of the other Pathfinder classes, and needs some pizazz added to make it a desirable option for Pathfinder.

I have been working on a “pact” mechanic, that functions like bloodline or foci, to bring this version up to snuff with the other pathfinder classes.


nighttree wrote:

I have always liked the Warlock, and have played with the class several times.

I have never found it to be over powered, and often found it to be slightly under powered when compared to other classes.

The version released for Pathfinder in Tome of Secrets is a good starting point, although it lacks the "flair" of the other Pathfinder classes, and needs some pizazz added to make it a desirable option for Pathfinder.

I have been working on a “pact” mechanic, that functions like bloodline or foci, to bring this version up to snuff with the other pathfinder classes.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I love warlocks. I love warlock/binders even more - the fluff just blends together perfectly. And mechanically, binder and hellfire warlocks are BEST FRIENDS 4 LYFE.

They just aren't that good without heavy optimization.


I like warlocks and i like their magic system.

i just like knowing i don't have to worry about any kind of resource management at all. i always have my magic.


I had a warlock once, it was on never winter nights 2: storms of Zehir.
I was using an ancient Greek hop-lite party, where everyone in the party used short swords,spears, and no armor better than breastplate.
the party included :
1 ranger( dual short sword)
1: fighter( spear and shield)
1: warlock ( spear)
1: cleric/stormlord ( spear)

the only thing the warlock had in this, was the range of its EB, and certain invocations.
nothing special.

however the closest thing to it I have seen in pathfinder of it, is the witch advanced base class


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nighttree wrote:

The version released for Pathfinder in Tome of Secrets is a good starting point, although it lacks the "flair" of the other Pathfinder classes, and needs some pizazz added to make it a desirable option for Pathfinder.

I have been working on a “pact” mechanic, that functions like bloodline or foci, to bring this version up to snuff with the other pathfinder classes.

When Pathfinder finally came out with its Core Rulebook, I went and Pathfinderized a few of the good classes from 3.5. Here’s what I did to the warlock.

WARLOCK (Pathfinder)

Warlock Level Progression:

BAB, and Saves remain the same

Level Special
1st Eldritch blast 1d6, eldritch bond, eldritch pact, invocation (least)
2nd Detect magic
3rd Damage reduction 1/cold iron, eldritch blast 2d6
4th Deceive item, pact power
5th Eldritch blast 3d6
6th New invocation (lesser)
7th Damage reduction 2/cold iron, eldritch blast 4d6
8th Fiendish resilience 1, pact power
9th Eldritch blast 5d6
10th Energy resistance 5
11th Damage reduction 3/cold iron, eldritch blast 6d6, new invocation (greater)
12th Imbue item, pact power
13th Eldritch blast 7d6, fiendish resilience 2
14th Analyze dweomer
15th Damage reduction 4/cold iron, eldritch blast 8d6
16th New invocation (dark), pact power
17th Eldritch blast 9d6
18th Fiendish resilience 5
19th Damage reduction 5/cold iron, eldritch blast 10d6
20th Eldritch master, pact power

Invocations Known The warlock gains 2 invocations at 1st level + 1 every 2 levels thereafter.

Role:
Warlocks wield powers that are highly damaging and often weaken or hamper the target in some way. They can also elude attacks by flying, teleporting, or turning invisible. Some warlocks are champions of dark and chaotic powers, who forge grim pacts with dangerous extraplanar powers in exchange for supernatural power. Others seek to undo the wrongs of their former colleagues, though they remain chained by the old pacts through which they acquired their powers.

Character Info:

Alignment Any chaotic or any evil
Hit Die d8
Class Skills The warlock’s class skills are the same except remove Concentration (Con) and add Fly (Dex).
Skill Ranks Per Level 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features
the warlock’s class features remain unchanged except as noted below.

Eldritch Blast:
the warlock’s eldritch blast remains unchanged in its function. However, the blast deals 1d6 damage at first level, and an additional 1d6 every two levels thereafter, to a maximum of 10d6 at 19th level.

Eldritch Bond:
Eldritch Bond (Su) At 1st level, warlocks forge a powerful bond with an object, usually a rod or a wand. These objects are always masterwork and must be wielded. If a warlock attempts to cast an invocation without his bonded object in hand, he must make a Spellcraft check or lose the invocation. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the invocation’s level.

A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one invocation that the warlock knows and can invoke, just as if the warlock had invoked it. This invocation cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to invoke spells from other arcane spellcaster spell lists.

A warlock can enchant his bonded object according to his imbue items class feature. The bonded object, whether a rod or a wand is not destroyed when its last charge is consumed, but it does lose its enchantment and retains all of its bonded object properties. Bonded objects only function for their creator, including any magic abilities added to the object. This means that they cannot be sold.

If a bonded object is damaged, it is restored to full hit points after 8 hours of rest. If the object is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week’s time in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per warlock level. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete.

Since spell-like abilities are not actually spells, a warlock cannot benefit from the Spell Focus feat. He can, however, benefit from the Ability Focus feat (see below), as well as from feats that emulate metamagic effects for spell-like abilities, such as Quicken Spell-Like Ability and Empower Spell-Like Ability (see pages 303 and 304 in the Monster Manual).

The four grades of invocations, in order of their relative power, are least, lesser, greater, and dark. A warlock begins with knowledge of two invocations, which must be of the lowest grade (least). As a warlock gains levels, he learns new invocations, as summarized on the Warlock progression table and described below. A list of available invocations can be found following the warlock class description, and a complete description of each invocation can be found in a subsequent chapter.

At any level when a warlock learns a new invocation (2nd, 4th, 6th, etc.), he can also replace an invocation he already knows with another invocation of the same or lower grade (lesser for lesser, or lesser for least, and so on). Thus, at 6th level, a warlock can replace a least invocation he knows with another invocation of the same grade (in addition to learning a new invocation, which could be least or lesser). The same occurs at 11th and 16th level, but with varied grades available to the warlock for exchanges and learning new invocations.

Finally, unlike other spell-like abilities, invocations are subject to arcane spell failure chance as described under Weapon and Armor Proficiency above. Warlocks can qualify for some prestige classes usually intended for spellcasters.

Eldritch Pact:
Warlocks must forge a binding pact with a mysterious extraplanar power from whom they obtain their eldritch energies. The sort of pact is dependant upon the type of planar entity they form this contract with, which also determines the type of pact powers a warlock will receive. The warlock must make one of the following pacts: elemental pact (power of the Elemental Planes), fey pact (power of the natural world), infernal pact (power of the Nine Hells), or shadow pact (power of the Plane of Shadows).

Elemental Pact The warlock has forged a pact with entities from one of the four elemental planes; air (electricity), earth (acid), fire (fire), or water (cold). By so doing, the warlock gains elemental-based power, which allows him to scour his foes with showers of icy shards or a storm of fiery motes, to deadly whirlwinds or terrible earthly tremors.

Fey Pact The warlock has forged a pact with ancient and powerful spirits of the natural world. Some are primitive earth spirits, grim and menacing; some are capricious wood, sky, or water spirits; and others are incarnations of seasons or natural forces who roam the fey realm like wild gods. They bestow magic that ranges from the feral and savage to the wondrous and enchanting.

Infernal Pact The warlock has forged a dangerous pact with an ancient order of devils from the Nine Hells, and dares to study their secrets under their tutelage. It was these devils who first created the secret path of the warlock in an attempt to unleash their hellish knowledge and power upon the world. If a warlock has not determined its pact type, it is considered to have the infernal pact.

Shadow Pact The warlock has forged a pact with a deadly and fearsome entity from the Plane of Shadow. This entity has imparted to the warlock the secret knowledge of the shadow realm and the use of negative energy to enhance his power.

Eldritch Pact Powers:
At 1st level, warlocks choose one pact that indicates the extraplanar source of their eldritch power(elemental, fey, infernal or shadow). Because of this pact, they gain a number of abilities based on the pact chosen. Warlocks who do not choose an eldritch pact are considered to have the infernal pact and gain the bonus abilities connected to that pact.

Eldritch pacts grant one ability at 4th level, 8th level, 8th level, 8th level, and 20th level, as noted in their description. Unless otherwise noted, these abilities are activated by using a standard action.

The warlock’s level is used when determining the caster level of these effects. The DC for any save is equal to 10 + the spell’s level + the caster’s Charisma modifier.

Eldritch powers that mimic spells are spell-like abilities, while the others are supernatural.

Elemental Pact
Warlocks of the elemental pact gain the following abilities.

4th Level Elemental Ray (Su) As a standard action, you can unleash an energy ray targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. The energy ray deals 1d6 points of damage + 1 for every two warlock levels, to a maximum of 1d6 +10 at 20th level. The type of damage is acid, cold, electricity, or fire, chosen by the warlock when the ray is unleashed.

8th Level Elemental Burst (Su) Once per day, you can unleash a blast of elemental power. This 10-foot-radius burst does 1d6 points of damage for every two warlock levels, to a maximum of 10d6 at 20th level. The type of damage is acid, cold, electricity, or fire, chosen by the warlock when the burst is released. Those caught in the area of your blast receive a Reflex save for half damage. Creatures that fail their save gain vulnerability to the chosen energy type for 1 round. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 your warlock level + your Constitution modifier. At 16th level, you can use this ability twice per day. This power has a range of 60 feet.

12th Level Elemental Shield (Su) Once per day, you can shroud yourself in elemental energy that causes damage to those who strike you. Anyone that does so takes 1d6 points of damage +1 point per warlock level (maximum +20). The type of damage is acid, cold, electricity, or fire, chosen by the warlock when the shield is activated. In addition, you only take half damage from attacks of the same energy type as the shield. If such an attack allows a Reflex save for half, you take no damage on a successful save. This power otherwise functions as fire shield.

16th Level Elemental Body (Su) Once per day, you assume the form of a large elemental. The type of element (air, earth, fire or water) is chosen by the warlock when he assumes the form. This power otherwise functions like elemental body III.

20th Level Elemental Storm (Su) Once per day, you blanket an area with raging elemental energy. Any creature within the area takes 1d6 points of damage per warlock level (maximum 20d6). If they fail their Reflex save they take 4d6 points of damage each round until the energies are extinguished. Extinguishing the flames is a full-round action that requires a DC 20 Reflex save. This storm deals acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage, determined when you create it. This power otherwise functions like fire storm.

Fey Pact Powers
Warlocks of the fey pact gain the following abilities.

4th Level Fey Shift (Su) As a standard action, you can displace yourself, making yourself appear to be two feet from your actual position. This power otherwise functions as displacement.

8th Level Fey Allure (Su) Once per day, your words become so enchanting that you can make a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally. You cannot control this individual, but it perceives your words and actions in a most favorable way. This power otherwise functions as charm monster.

12th Level Fey Step (Su) You can teleport yourself up to 30 feet per warlock level per day as a standard action, leaving an illusionary double in your place that acts as you direct. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

16th Level Fey Dance (Su): Once per day, you instill with an undeniable urge to dance and makes it impossible for the subject to do anything other than caper and prance in place. The effect imposes a –4 penalty to Armor Class and a –10 penalty on Reflex saves, and it negates any AC bonus granted by a shield the target holds. The dancing subject provokes attacks of opportunity each round on its turn. A successful Will save reduces the duration of this effect to 1 round. This power otherwise functions as [i]irresistible dance.

20th Level Fey Utterance (Su) Once per day, you blanket an area with raging elemental energy. Any creature within the area takes 1d6 points of damage per warlock level (maximum 20d6). If they fail their Reflex save they take 4d6 points of damage each round until the energies are extinguished. Extinguishing the flames is a full-round action that requires a DC 20 Reflex save. This storm deals acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage, determined when you create it. This power otherwise functions like dominate monster.

Infernal Pact Powers
Warlocks of the infernal pact gain the following abilities.

4th Level Hellish Sight (Su) You permanently gain darkvision with a range of 60 feet, which replaces low-light vision if the warlock has it. If the warlock already possesses darkvision, his range permanently doubles.

8th Level Hellish Rebuke (Su) Once per day, you can unleash a blast of hellfire in a 20-foot radius. Anyone caught in the blast takes 1d6 points of fire damage per two warlock levels, to a maximum of 10d6 at 20th level. Half the damage is fire damage, but the other half results directly from hellish divine power and is therefore not subject to being reduced by resistance to fire-based attacks. Therefore, creatures within the blast can make a Reflex save for only one-quarter damage. The power is equal to a 4th level spell, has a DC equal to 10 + your level, and otherwise functions as fireball.

12th Level Hellish Bond (Su) You forge a telepathic bond between yourself and a number of willing creatures, allowing all to communicate with each another telepathically regardless of language or distance. This power otherwise functions as telepathic bond.

16th Level Hellish Transposition (Su) Once per day, you can move yourself, some other creature, or a number of creatures instantaneously to another plane of existence. This power otherwise functions as planeshift.

20th Level Hellfire Storm (Su) Once per day, you instantaneously blanket an area with crackling hellish black flames. Any creature within the area takes 20d6 points of hellfire damage. Half the damage is fire damage, but the other half results directly from hellish divine power and is therefore not subject to being reduced by resistance to fire-based attacks. Therefore, creatures within the storm area can make a Reflex save for only one-quarter damage. This power otherwise functions like fire storm.

Shadow Pact
Warlocks of the shadow pact gain the following abilities.

4th Level Shadow Shift (Su) Once per day, you can appear as a shifting and wavering shadowy form. This distortion grants you concealment (20% miss chance). In conditions of darkness, whether natural or magical, this concealment improves (35% miss chance). This power otherwise functions as blur.

8th Level Shadow Touch (Su) Once per day, you can make a melee touch attack that deals damage, and gives you temporary hit points in return. This power otherwise functions as vampiric touch.

12th Level Shadow Walk (Su) Once per day, you can use the shadows to travel rapidly. This power functions as shadow walk.

16th Level Shadow Form (Su) Once per day, you can take the form of a shadow (not the creature), while retaining your general appearance. You become insubstantial, and capable of moving in any direction, even through solid objects. While in this state you are in a place called the Plane of Shadow, and considered to be incorporeal. When this ability expires, you return to material existence and are no longer considered to be incorporeal. This power otherwise functions as ethereal jaunt.

20th Level Shadow Double (Su) Once per day, you can create a shadow double of yourself, which appears just like you, but has only one-half your levels (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for you at that level). This power otherwise functions as simulacrum.

Eldritch Master:
Eldritch Master (Su) At 20th level, a warlock gains resistance 10 against the two energy types chosen at 10th level. Also, the warlock is forevermore treated as an outsider (native) rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the warlock’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if he were a member of his previous creature type. Additionally, warlocks gains special qualities that to their pact as follows:

Elemental pact Warlock gains darkvision 60 feet, immunity to poison, sleep, paralysis, or stunning effects, and resistance 5 to a third energy type.

Fey pact Warlock gains darkvision 60 feet and low-light vision, immunity to illusions, sleep, and compulsion effects,

Infernal pact Warlock gains telepathy 60 feet, immunity to poison, and the ability to see in darkness (including deeper darkness).

Shadow pact Warlock gains darkvision 60 feet, a +5 bonus to his Stealth skill checks, and a 50% chance of ignoring any damage received from a corporeal source (see incorporeal type description).

Least Invocations:

All
Dark One’s Own Luck: Gain a luck bonus on one type of saves.

Elemental
Earthen Grasp: Use earthen grasp as the spell.
Spiderwalk: Gain spider climb as the spell and you are immune to webs.
Wings of Speed: Use expeditious retreat as the spell.*

Fey
Beguiling Influence: Gain bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks.
Drooping Eyes: Gain sleep as the spell.
Leaps and Bounds: Gain bonus on Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks.
See the Unseen: Gain see invisibility as the spell and darkvision.*

Infernal
Baleful Utterance: Speak word of the Dark Speech and shatter objects as the shatter spell.
Devil’s Sight: See normally in darkness and magical darkness.
Fires of Damnation: Deal fire damage and target must make Will save or be shaken for 1 round.*
Summon Swarm: Use summon swarm as the spell.

Shadow
Breath of the Night: Create a fog cloud as the spell.
Chill of Death: Target must make a Fortitude save or take 1d6 Strength damage and become paralyzed for 1 round.*
Entropic Warding: Deflect incoming ranged attacks, leave no trail, and prevent being tracked by scent.
Miasmic Cloud: Create a cloud of mist that grants concealment and fatigues those who enter.

Lesser Invocations:

Elemental
Aura of Icy Flames: Aura deals 1d6 fire and cold damage +1 point per level to anyone that attacks you.*
Fell Flight: Gain a fly spell with good maneuverability.
Skin of the Stony Beast: Gain stoneskin as the spell, and deal 5d6 damage in a blast of stony shards once the spell expires.*
Stony Grasp: Use stony grasp as the spell.
Walk Unseen: Use invisibility (self only) as the spell.

Fey
Charm: Cause a single creature to regard you as a friend.
Flee the Scene: Use short-range dimension door as the spell, and leave behind a major image.
Mirror Image: Gain mirror image as the spell.*
Suggestion: Compel a single subject to follow a stated course of action.*
Voidsense: Gain blindsense 30 feet.

Infernal
Curse of Despair: Curse one creature as the bestow curse spell, or hinder their attack.
Paralyzing Dread: Target must make a Will save; if it fails, target is paralyzed for 1 round, if it succeeds, target is frightened for 3 rounds.*
Voracious Dispelling: Use dispel magic as the spell, causing damage to creatures whose effects are dispelled.
Wall of Gloom: Use wall of gloom as the spell.

Shadow
Hungry Darkness: Create shadows filled with a swarm of bats.
Siphon the Living: Touch deals 6d6 damage and you gain damage as hp.*
The Dead Walk: Create undead as the animate dead spell.

Greater Invocations:

Elemental
Chilling Tentacles: Use black tentacles as the spell, and deal cold damage to creatures in the area.
Energy Warding: Gain protection from energy (self only) against a single energy type and deal damage of the same energy type against those who attack you.*
Wall of Perilous Flame: Create a wall of fire as the spell, but half the damage from the wall results from supernatural power.

Fey
Nature’s Fury: Gain +2 to Str and Con, +1 on Will saves, –2 to AC, and deal +1d6 damage on a successful melee attack.*
Persuasive Eye: Gain charm monster as the spell, but as a gaze attack.*
Tenacious Plague: Use insect plague as the spell, but the summoned locust swarm deals damage as a magic weapon.

Infernal
Devour Magic: Use targeted greater dispel magic with a touch and gain temporary hit points based on the level of spells successfully dispelled.
Warlock’s Call: Use sending as the spell, but risk damage from the recipient.

Shadow
Enervating Shadow: Gain total concealment in dark areas and impose a Strength penalty on adjacent living creatures.
Wave of Shadowy Darkness: Create a wave of darkness that causes several targets to become exhausted for 3 rounds, and to make a Fortitude save or take 6d6 damage.*

Dark Invocations:

All
Dark Foresight: Use foresight as the spell, and communicate telepathically with a close target of the effect.

Elemental
Mists of Doom: Gain acid fog as the spell, but deal damage of any single energy type of your choice.*

Fey
Retributive Invisibility: Use greater invisibility as the spell (self only) that deals damage in a burst if dispelled.
Vision of Truth: Use true seeing as the spell.*
Word of Changing: Use baleful polymorph as the spell, but the effect could become permanent.

Infernal
Baleful Teleportation: Use greater teleport as the spell, and deal fire damage to enemies within a 10-foot radius.*

[b]Shadow[b]
Dark Discorporation: Become a swarm of bat-like shadows, gaining many benefits of the swarm subtype.
Path of Shadow: Use shadow walk as the spell and speed up natural healing.

*These are new homemade Invocations. Additional ones can also be found in the Complete Mage and divvied up into their appropriate Pact categories.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Mnemaxa wrote:

Think about this: Shatter destroys, without save, unattended objects of a certain weight. Given time and effort, a single warlock with the engineering skill can weaken a castle's foundation, invisibly fly into a castle and destroy or weaken siege equipment, collapse caves, and burst open chests and doors at distance.

They can also use shatter on objects - such as weapons, armor, spell component pouches, clothing, etc. These get saves....but if the save is failed, the object is destroyed, period.

You know what does that too?

A hammer.

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