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Fighters can do a pretty good variety of stuff out of combat, especially if you're willing to get their Int or Cha to a decent level. Lore Wardens are particularly fun for this, able to contribute various Knowledge skills and other insight.
I even have one who, through the use of various Traits, has ranks in Perform/Act and Diplomacy. The former is never going to matter; I admit I wasted a skill point there on flavor. Diplomacy though? They post +7 at level 1 on it. That character has a fair bit to offer outside of battle, and will be even better at it with just a few more Skill points handy to spread to other Int skills.
Fighters become limited only if you obsessively focus on piling on as much damage output as possible. I'm perfectly willing to start with a Str 17 instead of 18 in order to pick up some fun characteristics outside of fights... and I'll bet the character is still viable at most tables. Feel free to give it a try yourself, you'll probably find a lot to add depth to them with even basic tweaks.
I'm always hesitant to play a fighter, because even in Pathfinder I find that I don't have any abilities that allow me to perform out of combat. Anyone have any solutions to shore up a fighter's usefulness out of combat? Any feats that might allow some utility?There's this thing called roleplay?
Here's the real question... what is it that you want to do?
Well anyone can role play... The fact the fighter doesn't perform very well out of combat, especially compared to other classes, isn't related to role play at all. Its about mechanics.
The OP is from 3.3ish years ago. I'm not sure if you can expect a response.
The OP is from 3.3ish years ago. I'm not sure if you can expect a response.
Wow I did not notice that. For some odd reason I thought MrSin was the OP. How did I even get in this thread?
Well anywho. I think what he means by roleplay is that that is something you can do out of combat and does not require mechanical skill if your DM is not an a$$#&*!^. Also the fighter does have the 'always on' factor that can be really enjoyable to roleplay a lot like how in 3.5 the Warlock was a subpar caster, but the unlimted uses of his abilities were an awesome roleplay factor that many people enjoyed playing. His one big advantage over the fighter out-of-combat was his high charisma score.
Ha ha, it warms my warlock heart to see someone that still appreciates the warlock. Oh how they danced, and never ran out of casting. They could play their charisma pretty hard.
On fighter and rp, some days you just want to roleplay rather than rollplay. Hopefully that works with what the dm wants, because if it gets into castle management, keep on the borderlands, if there is a focus on engineering, mapping a region or resolving disputes (intimidate?), a level 9 fighter lord (old school) can certainly have a lot to do outside of combat.
Kingmaker showed us the way on that.
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yeah, kingmaker had a fantastic take on how to apply stats to specific roles in a game. As a matter of fact, its fantastic for any situation.
Dealing with soldiers or town guards - strength is your stat for things.
Dealing with rangers etc - dex and skill with woodlands is what you're after.
etc etc.
Since its all outlined in a set of rules in an AP, you can't even claim house rules on this stuff. I really like it as a replacement for the standard only diplomacy works kind of thing.
Mind you, I haven't play tested it in a long term game, I only worked with them in a PbP I ran here on the boards. It was a great system in that game though.
Cheers
I can actually eliminate the need for a Wizard with Use Magic Device, Scrolls, and some wands and nobody says anything about it but you have to spend a lot of money, and GM fiat, to get Celestial Breast Plate or Full Plate in order to get what the fighter gets for free and people are all over that.
Besides with a trait the fither can use a mithral breastplate without penalty. And if you think htat i a bad argument I remind you that in this kind of thread is alays asummed that everyone have a mithral celestial plate by level 10.Is it? Seems a bit pricey to have that plus everything else you need.The argument with the celestial plate is that once the celstialplate comes into play armor training becomes irrelevant.
I do not see why the same argument do not apply here. Once thre mithal breastplate comes into play the diference in AC disapear. And the mithral breastplate comesinto play several levels earleir.
Correctly defined, celestial mail eliminates all the benefits of armor training unless your Dex is above 26.
Mithral BP eliminates the benefits of armor training unless your Dex is 22+. You just don't need it.
Celestial Plate is like a Mithral BP with +2 AC, and medium armor.==Aelryinth
I have to admit, I'm impressed. Can you tell me how you replaced 1/4 of your mage's class abilities for 3000 gp total (maybe a little more if you stack mithral on it)? Because I'll be like all over that.
I mean, wow, if I could buy 1 spell of each level from 1 to 9th for 3k, I would do it in a heartbeat.
===Aelryinth
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I can actually eliminate the need for a Wizard with Use Magic Device, Scrolls, and some wands and nobody says anything about it but you have to spend a lot of money, and GM fiat, to get Celestial Breast Plate or Full Plate in order to get what the fighter gets for free and people are all over that.
Besides with a trait the fither can use a mithral breastplate without penalty. And if you think htat i a bad argument I remind you that in this kind of thread is alays asummed that everyone have a mithral celestial plate by level 10.Is it? Seems a bit pricey to have that plus everything else you need.The argument with the celestial plate is that once the celstialplate comes into play armor training becomes irrelevant.
I do not see why the same argument do not apply here. Once thre mithal breastplate comes into play the diference in AC disapear. And the mithral breastplate comesinto play several levels earleir.
Correctly defined, celestial mail eliminates all the benefits of armor training unless your Dex is above 26.
Mithral BP eliminates the benefits of armor training unless your Dex is 22+. You just don't need it.
Celestial Plate is like a Mithral BP with +2 AC, and medium armor.==Aelryinth
I have to admit, I'm impressed. Can you tell me how you replaced 1/4 of your mage's class abilities for 3000 gp total (maybe a little more if you stack mithral on it)? Because I'll be like all over that.
I mean, wow, if I could buy 1 spell of each level from 1 to 9th for 3k, I would do it in a heartbeat.
===Aelryinth
Here's the kicker about spells.
If you look at situations that come up during games there are only a certain number of spells that are really used. Please name me one 7th, 8th, or even 9th level spell that you need?
Certain spells are fun and really cool to pull off during encounters but most of them are not need to get through encounters.
A rogue with high Use Magic Device and a sack full of scrolls can do anything that you "needed" the Wizard to do. Fly, Teleport, Rope trick no problem, there's a scroll for that.
I have played in enough 1-20 games to see that the rogue can, and will, pull it off.
Also the nice thing about Use Magic Device is the fact that Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Paladin, Witch, Summoner, Magus, Inquisitor, Oracle, Ranger, Paladin etc spells can be cast if they can be put onto a scroll.
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By the same logic you don't need fighters because any class can swing a stick, some even do it better than fighters depending on the situation. Are we still talking about fighters?
Okay okay, we have the gold, let's just hire a lot of commoners and give them sticks!
I can actually eliminate the need for a Wizard with Use Magic Device, Scrolls, and some wands and nobody says anything about it but you have to spend a lot of money, and GM fiat, to get Celestial Breast Plate or Full Plate in order to get what the fighter gets for free and people are all over that.
Besides with a trait the fither can use a mithral breastplate without penalty. And if you think htat i a bad argument I remind you that in this kind of thread is alays asummed that everyone have a mithral celestial plate by level 10.Is it? Seems a bit pricey to have that plus everything else you need.The argument with the celestial plate is that once the celstialplate comes into play armor training becomes irrelevant.
I do not see why the same argument do not apply here. Once thre mithal breastplate comes into play the diference in AC disapear. And the mithral breastplate comesinto play several levels earleir.
Correctly defined, celestial mail eliminates all the benefits of armor training unless your Dex is above 26.
Mithral BP eliminates the benefits of armor training unless your Dex is 22+. You just don't need it.
Celestial Plate is like a Mithral BP with +2 AC, and medium armor.==Aelryinth
I have to admit, I'm impressed. Can you tell me how you replaced 1/4 of your mage's class abilities for 3000 gp total (maybe a little more if you stack mithral on it)? Because I'll be like all over that.
I mean, wow, if I could buy 1 spell of each level from 1 to 9th for 3k, I would do it in a heartbeat.
===Aelryinth
Here's the kicker about spells.
If you look at situations that come up during games there are only a certain number of spells that are really used. Please name me one 7th, 8th, or even 9th level spell that you need?
Certain spells are fun and really cool to pull off during encounters but most of them are not...
Are you seriously asking me for a list of spells that I wish my fighter could cast 1/day? Keep in mind we're talking wizard, not sorc, so I could swap spells.
I mean, seriously...
0) I'd get at least 2. Prestidigitation and something.
1) Shield. With Pearls of Power. Zweihand, who needs a shield? Alternately, True Strike, Enlarge or even Mage Armor.
2) Levitate, Bull's Strength, and that personal Haste spell.
3) Fly, Dispel Magic, Haste. Fireball if you want to really shock the enemy. Greater Magic Weapon.
4) Dimension Door, Wall of Fire
5) overland flight, teleport, wall of stone/force, Giant Form II
6) Anti-Magic Shell.
7) Teleport w/o Error
8) Mind Blank
9) Wish. Alternately, Foresight.
And Summon X anywhere along the way provides me with a continuous flanking buddy.
And with said ability, you get the access to the full wizard spell list of usable objects. yay!
I would soooo take this ability above over the fighter's dex bonus and move in armor ability...because I can spend 3-5k and basically get the whole bonus, anyways.
==Aelryinth
