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so, you can get craft arms and armor at 5th level, but most of the enhancements require you to be higher than 5th level. For instance, flaming requires you to be level 10. That seems extremely high for a +1 bonus enhancement. It's a relatively minor enhancement on the list, so why the lvl 10 pre-requisite for it? I would have thought the caster level would have been tied to the bonus given...
Well, flame strike (one of the three options for spells) is a fifth level cleric spell (yes, it's a fourth level druid spell, but what druid crafts?) which requires at least 9th level caster.
I think the real issue is that "flaming" and such weren't "standard" enhancements until 3.x. Prior to that, +1, +2, +3 were your standard enhancements and to get a flame blade, you had to get the special magic weapon "Flame Tongue" (which has been upgraded since 2e). Same for getting frost and shock weapons. I would not at all be surprised if the high caster level is an artifact of the old systems.
Another option is that the caster level listed for the various stock enhancements is a minimum level set to deal with dispelling. Since magic items can be suppressed by dispel magic, everything needs a caster level. A higher caster level is obviously harder to dispel. If the caster level was set rather low, every wizard and their dog (familiar) could make your fighter's flaming sword of awesomeness into just another hunk of steel.
The "Caster Level" listed under each magic item is one of the most confusing, ill-thought legacies of the 3.5 system.
As I understand it (and I may be wrong) that Caster Level entry is just the "average" Caster Level for purposes of detecting randomly generated treasure. It is not a pre-requisite to crafting the item.
*sigh*
It was unclear from the beginning, and I really wish that it had been made more explicit over the last three versions of the game. But there you have it.
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Pg. 460 from Core Rulebook.
Caster Level (CL): The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of
the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation.
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level).
Some of the caster levels just seem arbitrary. While Flamestrike is one of the spells you can use to create a flaming weapon so is flameblade( lvl2 druid ) and fireball( lvl 3 wiz/sorc ). It does not require you to cast all 3, just one of the above. I just thought the 3 x bonus CL was more than sufficient to handle the scaling power level. At 5th lvl you still are only allowed a +1 enhancement bonus and a +1 ability bonus.
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Well, flame strike (one of the three options for spells) is a fifth level cleric spell (yes, it's a fourth level druid spell, but what druid crafts?) which requires at least 9th level caster.
Yeah, but one of the other options is fireball, which can be cast by a 5th level wizard. It really doesn't make sense, especially when you consider the fact that the Speed enchantment is a +3 market modifier, requires a spell that is the same level as fireball, and only needs caster level 7th.
I agree, this could really use some clarification.
Is the caster level a prerequisite or not? Previous responses suggested that its not.
Can a crafter who doesn't meet the caster level create the item?
Would he need to increase the DC of the skill check by 5 or some other amount?
Can a crafter of a lower caster level than the item would be make the item at said caster level, such that a 5th level caster could create a caster level 10 item?
Or would it be at 5th caster level even though the book lists it at 10?
Does this apply to straight armor/weapon enhancement bonuses as well?
Can a caster add an additional ability to an existing item when the existing item is already at a caster level higher than the caster?
Well, flame strike (one of the three options for spells) is a fifth level cleric spell (yes, it's a fourth level druid spell, but what druid crafts?) which requires at least 9th level caster.Yeah, but one of the other options is fireball, which can be cast by a 5th level wizard. It really doesn't make sense, especially when you consider the fact that the Speed enchantment is a +3 market modifier, requires a spell that is the same level as fireball, and only needs caster level 7th.
Yes, I know that it's only one of the spells. That's why I said it was one of the the options. However, I also listed other reasons why the caster level might be what it is.
The caster level is clearly a prerequisite, and since one of the three spells you can choose from requires a 9th level caster, setting that as a minimum seems reasonable. Why you would need a 5th level spell for 1d6 fire damage is beyond me. That seems to be the bigger question to me. Why isn't one of the other, much lower level, fire spells acceptable?
Pg. 460 from Core Rulebook.
Some of the caster levels just seem arbitrary. While Flamestrike is one of the spells you can use to create a flaming weapon so is flameblade( lvl2 druid ) and fireball( lvl 3 wiz/sorc ). It does not require you to cast all 3, just one of the above. I just thought the 3 x bonus CL was more than sufficient to handle the scaling power level. At 5th lvl you still are only allowed a +1 enhancement bonus and a +1 ability bonus.
Caster Level (CL): The next item in a notational entry gives the caster level of the item, indicating its relative power. The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of
the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation.
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator’s caster level must be as high as the item’s caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator’s level).
I agree. I prefer the 3 x bonus = CL. It's simple and not arbitrary.
Caster Level already determines the spellcraft check to create a magic item. So it is already figured in. Increasing the DC by 5 for not meeting the CL requirement seems fair.
There is debate on that, and no official answer I know of. I'm with you on it though.
Still, the listed caster levels are legacies of a crafting system that as far as I can tell was *intended* to be unusable.
The quoted text has a double meaning.
It (the text) is intended to prevent PCs from creating items with a higher caster level than they have attained themselves — it does NOT mean you need the "listed" caster level to make the item. The Listed caster level is there to give the GM something to respond with when detect magic is cast, and that is its only function. It is painfully ambiguous, and I don't know a single person who didn't misinterpret this rule until informed otherwise.
The CL Listing was 3.0 FAQ stuff, I wouldn't even know where to begin finding it in print now. Can someone with better rules mojo dig it up?
We fought for ages and ages during 3.0 until someone found the official solution. I believe it was Monte Cook who finally debunked this error, and he wrote the dang book.
Disclaimer: There is some chance that I am wrong about this, since I cannot produce the exact source that gave me the impression, However, I swear to you all I am NOT just making this up.