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Quest for Races of the Wild / Arcane Hierophant Errata


Dragon Magazine General Discussion


Since my Campaign uses Arcane Hierophants heavily, I wonder, whether there have been ever any errata or articles published about the prestige class "Arcane Hierophant" from "Races of the Wild"?

The question I wonder about is:

The class description repeatedly mentions, that this class is mainly intended far wizard/druids, but also for wizard/rangers and specifically mentions, that druids or rangers can meet the class feature requirements.

Yet the class feature requirement is "Trackless Step", which is a class feature only for druids, but not for rangers. It is very probable, that the intention was to set "Woodland Stride" as a requirement, since it is a common class feature for both, druids and rangers.

I couldn't find any "Races of the Wild" errata, nor any articles about that issue. All I found are unanswered questions about that very topic. So if anyone knows some dragon or dungeon article (or dnd insider for that matter) or even just some IIRC discussion with dnd authors, please let me know.

Taldor

Click Here.

Sorry! Seriously though it doesn't look like the ever did any errata on Races of the Wild or any of the Races books from their official 3.5 errata page.

That said, your game so you can change it however you like! The rules are just a guideline of suggestions, you can change them as you please so long as it makes the game more fun.

I'm more worried about the effectiveness of taking wizard/ranger for Arcane Hierophants. Seems like an exceptionally poor combination considering what the PrC is meant to do. I'd imagine someone wrote the flavor text as it is just because rangers also get animal companions and didn't bother to look at the prerequisites.


I asked Skip Williams whether the original intention was to have woodland stride as the class feature requirement for the arcane hierophant instead of trackless step, so rangers can qualify as the descriptive text strongly suggest, and he said:

"Woodland Stride is certainly what I *meant* to write, Not sure how Tarckless Step got in there instead."


Lunever wrote:

I asked Skip Williams whether the original intention was to have woodland stride as the class feature requirement for the arcane hierophant instead of trackless step, so rangers can qualify as the descriptive text strongly suggest, and he said:

"Woodland Stride is certainly what I *meant* to write, Not sure how Tarckless Step got in there instead."

Very interesting.

I've had my own communication about the AH back in 2005. I don't think you can find it anymore on the WotC boards, even though I did post it there several times, for example in the 3.5 errata thread.

I can still post it here for your convenience, even though the links no longer work:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Errata ?. Wildshape for the Arcane Hierophant.

Type. - Discrepancy and Unclear

Reference(s) - page 108 of the Races of the Wild
Wild shape(Su) If you do not already possess the ability, you gain no new ability to wildshape. However, you add your arcane hierophant level to your druid level and gain the wild shape ability of a druid of the resulting level. For example, a character who is a 3rd-level wizard/3rd-level druid/4th level arcane hierophant has the wildshape ability of a 7th-level druid. If you are not a druid, (for example, if you entered the class as a wizard/ranger), you do not gain the ability to wildshape.
Explanation. It is very unclear under what circumstances an Arcane Hierophant has wildshape.

The fact that neither of the examples (wiz3/drd3 and wizard/ranger) can qualify for Arcane Hierophant and must be invalid doesn't help.

I could quote from the many discussions about this subject to show that this is unclear to many people, but will only post some links, although I know the links will not be around forever, and and quote my correspondence with Customer Support as it is obviously unclear for them(edited for bervity).
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=483513
http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewto pic&p=87225#87225

This is my correspondence with Customer Service (see some additional edits at the bottom):
Reference# 050815-000323
Subject: Does a Druid4/Wizard3/Arcane Hierophant1 have Wildshape? (page 108 Races of t...
Does a Druid4/Wizard3/Arcane Hierophant1 have Wildshape?
(page 108 Races of the Wild)
----
Response (Trevor K.) 08/15/2005 04:06 PM
Hey there Adrian. A 4th level druid does not have the wildshape ability and a Arcane Hierophant only grants a continuation of the ability if the character already has it, so no, this character in question would not have Wildshape. You would need one more level of druid to gain the wildshape ability. Have fun and good gaming!

Trevor K.
----
Customer (Adriaan Renting) 08/16/2005 01:09 AM
1) I have the additional question of how to interpret the two examples given. These seem to indicate differently and have been the main focus of all discussions:

A) On page 108:
3rd-level Druid/3rd level Wizard/4th level Arcane Hierophant with the Wildshape ability of a 7th level Druid.(In the description of the Wildshape ability)

B) On page 112:
4th level Druid/3rd level Wizard/4th level Arcane Hierophant with Wildshape (8 hours/Large). (The Eldred example NPC)

2) Can you confirm there will be an errata on Races of the Wild that corrects these examples? How should the correct version read?

3) How should I interpret your answer from 050329-000154 that a Druid3/Wizard4/ArcaneHierophant2 qualifies for Master of Many Forms from Complete Adventturer, which requires the Wildshape feat?
Can you confirm this answer is invalid?

Thank you for your time.
----
Response (Trevor K.) 08/16/2005 09:20 AM
Sorry about that Adrian. I was a bit confused over the entry. If you have levels in druid, then it is possible to gain the wildshape ability by taking Arcane Heirophant levels. So the character in question would be able to wildshape as 7th level druid would. The Example is correct though the first line in the wild shape ability of the Arcane Hierophant is misleading. With this in mind, both examples are correct. Sorry for the confusion. Good gaming!

Trevor K.
----
Customer (Adriaan Renting) 08/16/2005 12:51 PM
Your answer is very confusing to me:

1) What character do you mean by "the character in question"?
- Druid4/Wizard3/Arcane Hierophant1 from my original question
- 3rd-level druid/3rd-level wizard/4th level AH from Wildshape on page 108
- The example NPC Edrec on page 112
It seems likely that you refer to the second because you say "7th level druid", but brings me to my second point.

2) You say "The Example is correct". I think you mean the example in the Wildshape description, but this can not be correct as a 3rd-level druid/3rd-level wizard can never qualify for Arcane Hierophant (BAB req.)

3) I am now totally lost as to my original question:
Does a Druid4/Wizard3/Arcane Hierophant1 have Wildshape?
Can you answer my original question again?

4) Last but not least: Can you confirm or deny that there will be an errata for Races of the Wild that clarifies this, as asking any customer service representative (Trevor K, Sam S, Chris) seems more like a lottery (no offense, the trouble is the "misleading" text itself).
----
Response (Trevor K.) 08/16/2005 02:20 PM
Alright Adriaan. I apologize again. Let me see if I can make this as clear as possible.

1. The Druid 4/Wizard 3/Arcane Heirophant 4 on page 112 is done and shown correctly. He will get the wildshape ability as if he were an 8th level druid.

2. The druid in the wildshape example does not actually qualify for the prestige class, you are correct. I was just using the levels provided to show that if he did actually qualify for the prestige class, he would have the wildshape of a 7th level druid.

3. The Druid in YOUR example, Druid 4/Wizard 3/Heirophant 1, would have the wildshape ability of a 5th level druid.

4. These answers are final and definite. I have checked with the dev teams just to appease you. I apologize for any confusion my misunderstanding my have caused you throughout these questions. While an errata for Races of the Wild may be hit the website at some point in the future, we do not have a definite date or any specific information about what it will cover. Good gaming.

Trevor K.
----
Edited for additional responses from Customer Service.
----
Edited again to add answer from Rich Redman.
----
Code monkey Publishing: Ok folks, we got the official answer.

Rich Redman, Assistant Licensing and Brand Manager for the D&D line for WotC (read #2 in charge of D&D) told us that if you do not have enough levels in the Druid class to have the Wildshape ability, you do NOT get it until you do, regardless of how many Arcane Heirophant levels you have.

Thanks for the patience while we worked on getting the question answered.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491119
----
I asked Customer Service to confirm this:
Could you confirm that indeed a Druid4/Wiz3/ArcaneHierophant1 does not have wildshape? Currently it is very confusing to me, and even the dev team you talked to seems to be.
----
I got this answer:
I have again walked over to R&D to make sure we were right on this one. I spoke to Jesse Decker and Andy Collins, the two people I usually go to with problems, and they agreed with me on this. While Rich is a very smart guy, the answer I am giving you comes directly from the developers. If you are a druid, but do not yet have the wildshape class ability, you do gain the wildshape ability if your druid levels and your arcane heirophant levels add up to 5 or greater. You would then have the wildshape ability as if you were a druid of that level. Good gaming!
----
The only thing that is realy clear to me, it that this realy needs an Errata.


I also want to add that I had a discussion on the materials for armors and such from Races of the Wild as that's a big mess too. I didn't get very far with Customer Service on that one. The stuff on pages 167-169 doesn't make a lot of sense and would certainly need mention in an errata.

"Considerably less weight and encumberance" is for example not clear enough that you can calculate what the stats of a piece of Leafweave armor would be.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
RogerWilco wrote:

I also want to add that I had a discussion on the materials for armors and such from Races of the Wild as that's a big mess too. I didn't get very far with Customer Service on that one. The stuff on pages 167-169 doesn't make a lot of sense and would certainly need mention in an errata.

"Considerably less weight and encumberance" is for example not clear enough that you can calculate what the stats of a piece of Leafweave armor would be.

Considering that 3.x material isn't supported any more by WOTC, I'm not surprised that you're not getting much in the name of phone support.


In my campaign, I have altered the requirements of the Arcane Hierophant PrC as follows:
Alignment: Must contain a neutral component
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (nature) 8 ranks
Spells: Ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells and 2nd level divine spells
Special: Summon Familiar class feature
Special: Animal Companion class feature


LazarX wrote:
RogerWilco wrote:

I also want to add that I had a discussion on the materials for armors and such from Races of the Wild as that's a big mess too. I didn't get very far with Customer Service on that one. The stuff on pages 167-169 doesn't make a lot of sense and would certainly need mention in an errata.

"Considerably less weight and encumberance" is for example not clear enough that you can calculate what the stats of a piece of Leafweave armor would be.

Considering that 3.x material isn't supported any more by WOTC, I'm not surprised that you're not getting much in the name of phone support.

Please note that I had this discussion with WotC Customer Service over e-mail (I don't live anywhere near the USA), in August of 2005, three years before 4th edition was released.

I think WotC dropped the ball on Erata for a lot of 3/3.5e books long before 4e came along. At some point, around 2007, they announced they hired a new guy to make Erata for the books that didn't have any. He was in a few discussions on the WotC boards around that time, but then the whole Gleemax move started and I never heard or saw anything again.

My apologies if this is considered thread necromancy, but I came across this thread and felt I needed to clarify things. It still angers me how WotC handled these things.

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