Insanity as a defense


Rules Questions


A question came up in our game this weekend. We were running "Rise of the Runelords" and the PCs were in melee with Nualia; the barbarian decided to use his class ability to intimidate her into being Shaken for a couple of rounds. The DC for this is based on the target's hit dice and WIS modifier. He made the roll and she suffered the listed effects.

Now, here's the thing. If you've read RotRL, you know that Nualia is seriously messed up -- insane. Her morale is also listed as "fights to the death." Under either or both of those conditions, do the RAW allow for a Will save bonus vs. fear effects? Seems to me that her brand of fanatic should be too crazy to intimidate under normal circumstances, and of course I could have applied a conditional modifier off the cuff, but I'm wondering if this already exists.


Damon Griffin wrote:

A question came up in our game this weekend. We were running "Rise of the Runelords" and the PCs were in melee with Nualia; the barbarian decided to use his class ability to intimidate her into being Shaken for a couple of rounds. The DC for this is based on the target's hit dice and WIS modifier. He made the roll and she suffered the listed effects.

Now, here's the thing. If you've read RotRL, you know that Nualia is seriously messed up -- insane. Her morale is also listed as "fights to the death." Under either or both of those conditions, do the RAW allow for a Will save bonus vs. fear effects? Seems to me that her brand of fanatic should be too crazy to intimidate under normal circumstances, and of course I could have applied a conditional modifier off the cuff, but I'm wondering if this already exists.

What you are describing is essentially the same thing they state for Tsuto. They state that if captured, he won't give up any info without some kind of magical persuasion, due to his fanatical devotion and love for her.


Delthos wrote:
Damon Griffin wrote:

A question came up in our game this weekend. We were running "Rise of the Runelords" and the PCs were in melee with Nualia; the barbarian decided to use his class ability to intimidate her into being Shaken for a couple of rounds. The DC for this is based on the target's hit dice and WIS modifier. He made the roll and she suffered the listed effects.

Now, here's the thing. If you've read RotRL, you know that Nualia is seriously messed up -- insane. Her morale is also listed as "fights to the death." Under either or both of those conditions, do the RAW allow for a Will save bonus vs. fear effects? Seems to me that her brand of fanatic should be too crazy to intimidate under normal circumstances, and of course I could have applied a conditional modifier off the cuff, but I'm wondering if this already exists.

What you are describing is essentially the same thing they state for Tsuto. They state that if captured, he won't give up any info without some kind of magical persuasion, due to his fanatical devotion and love for her.

Yeah, I guess that's true. I hesitated to make Nualia actually immune to intimidation, but I suppose that was the case for Tsuto, barring magical intervention.


You just have to be careful that you don't start to overuse it. If you do, you make the intimidation skill pointless, which then upsets your players. It would be far better to give a feat that gives bonuses to resist it, than make them outright immune.


Delthos wrote:
You just have to be careful that you don't start to overuse it. If you do, you make the intimidation skill pointless, which then upsets your players. It would be far better to give a feat that gives bonuses to resist it, than make them outright immune.

As I said before, immunity wasn't what I was looking for, but nor does a feat quite fit.

I was asking whether, within the RAW, the condition of insanity (which I guess is not a recognized condition like confused, stunned, sickened, etc.) or the "fights to the death" level of morale provide a situational modifier (as a Will save bonus) to resist fear/intimidation effects.

Grand Lodge

I can't think of any actual rule that deals with insanity like you mention. But I think a situational modifier or saving throw like you suggested would not be a bad idea. But I don't think the rules deal with it.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I don't see a problem with someone who is willing to fight to the death, but also being afraid. Both can apply at the same time.

It may be an idea to have the shaken and fights to the death opponent attack one of the other PCs, leaving the intimidator for last.


Delthos wrote:
You just have to be careful that you don't start to overuse it. If you do, you make the intimidation skill pointless, which then upsets your players. It would be far better to give a feat that gives bonuses to resist it, than make them outright immune.

I have a campiagn with 2 half orcs and a bard. They basically are an intimidate fest.

Band of goblins: I intimidate the leader.
Evil sorcerer: Intimidate.
Bandit leader: intmidate

the list goes on. I find it's not so much i can make targets immune, but whether I can mitigate the effects. Goblins going full defensive until the effect wears off, sorcerers casting fear on his intimidators, bandit leader ordering his co-horts to attack while he recovers.

ETC. Ad nauseum.

Batts


I don´t think that there is anything in the rules about this kind of insanity. I would give her a bonus on the intimidation DC for it, and define what she can be bullied into - some things could trigger a violent response rather than a fearful one.

Stefan

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